Bob Lutz: “Tesla Supporters Are Like Members Of A Religious Cult” – Elon Musk: “Dear Cult Members, I Love You”

OCT 27 2016 BY ERIC LOVEDAY 195

It's Time For Lutz To Stop Dissing Electric Cars & Tesla

It’s Time For Lutz To Stop Dissing Electric Cars & Tesla (cia CNBC)

Bob Lutz’ rhetoric bores us these days, but if he’s dead set on conducting an interview on national media that blasts electric car and/or Tesla, then we figure we should at least provide those he attacks with a chance at defense.

In his latest interview on CNBC, Lutz once again attacked Tesla, but he doesn’t stop there. Lutz falls off the deep end by blasting Tesla supporters too. His words (via CNBC interview):

Tesla supporters are like members of a religious cult. Just like Steve Jobs was worshiped at Apple, it’s the same way with Elon Musk … seen as a new visionary god who promises this phantasmagorical future, a utopia of profitability and volume.”

“Steve Jobs delivered and Elon … hasn’t delivered a thing, except increasingly negative cash flow, and an increasing lack of profitability; more and more capital spending.”

“I just don’t see anything about Tesla that gives me any confidence that that business can survive.”

Well Mr. Lutz, the shareholders believe Tesla will survive, and the automaker’s latest Q3 financial reports indeeds shows that the company is improving from an overall business stand point, and is capable of turning a profit.

But back to Lutz blasting Tesla supporters (these are the same people who may be in the market for a VIA Motors PHEV truck, ya know), Elon Musk had a classic response to Lutz that we just have to share:

Elon Musk responds To Lutz

Elon Musk responds To Lutz

Source: CNBC

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195 Comments on "Bob Lutz: “Tesla Supporters Are Like Members Of A Religious Cult” – Elon Musk: “Dear Cult Members, I Love You”"

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“…and the automaker’s latest Q3 financial reports indeeds shows that the company is improving from an overall business stand point, and is capable of turning a profit.”

Didn’t Elon himself send an email blast to his employees asking them to do everything they could to be profitable in that quarter, specifically because that was the only quarter he saw as having the potential to be profitable for the foreseeable future?

The “one and done” nature of even his own email does not suggest to me that they’re “improving from an overall business standpoint”

That said, I do hope they succeed, and want that to be the case. In fact I do hold long positions in Tesla. I just don’t know how realistic it is to expect them to become cash flow positive in the next 5 years.

the kind of email that musk sent to tesla employees is not unusual for silicon valley. i once worked for intel many years ago and sending out memos to instruct employees to try to pull revenue into the current quarter was a frequent occurrence. it would not surprise me if musk sent out another email in the next quarter.

Without the ZEV credit sales, they are in the red over $100 million. Need a big asterisk with the “we made a profit!” proclamations.

They also paid down $600Million in debt last quarter. If they wouldn’t have done that, they would have been profitable even without the ZEV credits.

If you’re in debt up to your eyeballs, have you made a true profit on your venture?

Based on that standard, the majority of companies around the world wouldn’t be considered profitable.

The modern business world operates on debt and equity. It is the driving force behind our modern commerce system, our modern housing system, our modern automotive industry, etc.

The United States borrowed money to finance our revolution before we ever became the United States. Christopher Columbus borrowed money to fund his trip.

Yes, making money funded by others is absolutely making money. And very easy to calculate too. All you do is subtract out the cost to service your debt each quarter from your profits. Which is exactly what Tesla and every single other company does in their SEC quarterly reports.

Maybe the other OEMs need a big red asterisk, called “free pollution”.

Exactly.

Also, without the $180 million positive cash flow from ZEV credit sales, Tesla would have a negative free cash flow of $4 million instead of the $176 million positive free cash flow that it reported.

The Zero Emission Credits gave you Zero Emissions, lowering your healthcare costs and making your state nicer to live in.

All 50 states need More Zero Emission Credits.

“Tesla said it expects to remain profitable in the final quarter of the year.”

So, it doesn’t look like it’s a One and Done profit. Considering everything Tesla has on it’s plate, with the Giga-Factory, Solar City acquisition and Model 3 ramp-up, being profitable for these two quarters is quite a monumental feat.

Clarkson — actually, in the email Musk is referencing the one-time expenses related to launching both the Gigafactory and the Model 3 as having a short term impact in 2017 of reducing profits.

This sort of one-time costs that will deliver a full order of magnitude increase in sales is a huge sign of long-term company strength.

Your post only holds true if your short-sighted investment strategy only looks forward 1 year or less. Most investment professionals would be quick to point out that an investment strategy like that is badly short-sighted and myopic.

Tesla now with: 12 BILLION DOLLARS in assets.
-Giga Factory
-Most advance auto assembly plant in the world.

The Cult-of-Success.

lutz isn’t talking about tesla’s assets base. what he is saying is that tesla is maintaining those assets based on raising huge amounts of investor funding. that is a kind of “battery drainer” model. at some point a corporation has to be able to be self-funding. that is the core requirement to enable a corporation to be a “going concern”.

…Enter the model 3

The Roadster did NOT inspire the Volt, the EV1 and Prius had much more to do with that.

SJC — Bob Lutz would disagree with you.

The Roadster is what finally got Lutz to push GM’s PHEV technology in order to leapfrog the Prius. Here is how Bob says it:

“All the technical people tell me it can’t be done, you can’t use lithium-ion, it can’t store enough energy, etc. And here’s a West Coast software startup guy who’s announcing 200 mile range, zero to 60 in four and a half seconds, 140 miles-an-hour top speed. We can’t do what that guy in California does?”

http://blog.sfgate.com/energy/2011/11/10/the-chevy-volts-unlikely-father/

G.M. top management made the final decision, not Lutz himself. They would look at Prius sales and revenue, not the Roadsters that they had laying around waiting for space parts.

+1 – so many haters out there. Tesla is an amazing visionary, successful company that builds the best cars in the world. Accept it and move on…

Correct, although the (many) real haters live in Seeking Alpha.

> “Most advance auto assembly plant in the world.”

Based on their claims. Any proof of that claim?

Well it’s certainly one of the newest plants in the world.
It’s also building a brand new clearly highly advanced type of car that is only mass produced by themselves and Nissan/Renault so all new processes are certainly requried.
If that doesn’t translate into the most advanced plant in the world then it certainly translates into ONE of the most advanced plants in the world.

If we apply the scientific method, the claim “the most advanced auto assembly plant in the world” is a non-falsifiable claim. It’s the sort of thing we expect from a company’s PR department, but I doubt anyone could actually “prove” such a claim in an objective manner.

I strongly suspect any number of companies could point to one thing or another in one of their factories and claim that makes it “the most advanced plant in the world”.

However, I think Samwise is correct to point out that Tesla’s Fremont plant has mostly new, cutting-edge assembly line equipment, and therefore it appears most likely he’s right to say Tesla has “ONE of the most advanced plants in the world.”

The plant is new and the manufacturing process is taking a new aproach, while the other OEMs are like old fashion manufacturers, they can’t and don’t want to change much. Just like they do with the cars. Same old fashion low tech ICEs with different front lights.

Legacy OEMs allways think like this: ‘We are world market leader, who needs innovation?’

Bob Lutz aka Mr. Horsepower: ‘yeah, we just need more horse power!’

Tesla: CAPITALISTIC SUCCESS.

Rather socialistic success. We the people help and support Tesla for a better future for all.
And it’s done by taking money from the rich to make a better world for the poor(er).

The rich buy shares and cars, without government ownership. That’s Socialist?

Socialism = other people (aka, government) forcing you what to do.

Capitalism = you choosing for yourself what to do.

No one forced those rich people to buy Tesla. That’s why socialist republicans (ie, dealer lobby) hate Tesla for such capitalism success.

Socialism = the state looks after you to ensure everyone has at least the minimal living needs (thats the meaning in germany).

Capitalism (at it’s purest) = the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer (until 99.9% are poor and a revolution arises)

Lol. Everyone’s so much better off in Socialist paradise North Korea than “capitalist” US, because the state takes care of their need. I don’t know why every country in the world wouldn’t rather be like North Korea. Reality is far different than propaganda.

Socialists are like 5 year old kids, always looking to the state as if it’s some parental figure that’ll take care of them. But state is comprised of people (politicians). I don’t know about you, but the politicians I see are bunch of crooks and morons, worst the humanity has to offer.

“State looks after you” means other people (the collection of idiots) have control, not you. And you like giving control of your life to those idiots?

I’d rather be free and suffer the consequences of my freedom than be under the thumbs of idiots like in Venezuela or potentially starving to death like in North Korea. If we had let nutjobs like Bernie take over, US would be starving, too.

“The state looks after you”. Ahh, yes, Big Brother. Just love it when “looks after you” becomes “watches you”.

Also, LOL @ your suggestion that capitalism makes people poor. Under no other economic system have we seen more people brought up out of poverty than by that evil and greedy capitalism.

i’m not a bob lutz fan at all, but i agree with much of what he says. tesla fanboys *are* like a member of a cult and i think that elon musk has intentionally cast himself as the heir to steve jobs among a “techie” group that was looking for a replacement once jobs died. i also agree that solarcity sounds like a really bad decision. where i am not as sure is on lutz’ belief that tesla can *never* be profitable. granted, i agree that tesla can’t be profitable the way that the company is being run today. but i can also look at the business model to date as being one in which the company was “investing in the future”; tesla really does have to change because the way that the company is being run now, it is not operating with much prospect of being a “going concern”. for example, lutz’ position is that, at present, average variable cost is more than marginal revenue. he further believes that an increase in volume won’t change that. what i question is whether he really knows that tesla has reached minimum average variable cost. if he is right, then tesla is… Read more »

Lutz’s comment about marginal cost is where he lost credibility. He (just like every other person) could read their financial statements to know that the operational losses come from R&D and SG&A. http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ABEA-4CW8X0/2161383705x0x913801/F9E5C36A-AFDD-4FF2-A375-ED9B0F912622/Q3_16_Update_Letter_-_final.pdf

In the last page of the letter, you can see that automotive gross margins range from 23% to 25%, after removing revenue from ZEV credits.

Seeing how long Lutz served as an auto executive and board member, he has to understand how to read a financial statement.

At this point he must have an agenda.

Most established car makers put some things into Cost of Goods that Tesla puts into Selling, General & Administrative or Research and Development. Still, I hardly think it’s enough to make the gross margin negative.

Ambulator — please list those charges, and show which other car companies do it differently.

Most car makers aim for zero defects on cars coming off the assembly line. Any defects found by quality control are corrected/repaired before the car leaves the factory. Quality control inspectors and in some factories (ie Toyota) even an assembly line worker can shut down the entire line at significant expense to track down the source of a repetitive defect in cars coming down the line, in order find the worker or malfunctioning machine responsible for the recurring defect and to rectify the situation from reoccurring. The above expenses are included in the cost of goods sold and therefore reduce the gross profit margin. In the past, Tesla has shipped cars to customers with obvious defects/issues (ie early Model X) with the expectation that customers would take their cars to Tesla Service Centers multiple times to have all the defects/issues repairs. Other car makers would have repaired these issues at the factory, increasing their cost of goods sold and decreasing their gross profit and gross profit margin. By shifting the repairs of defects/issues to the Service Center, Tesla shifted the expense from cost of goods sold to General, Selling, and Administrative expenses in the form of warranty repair expense from… Read more »

Please provide the source for your suppositions.

Stop the Line manufacturing: “Stop the Line manufacturing is a technique introduced by Taiichi Ohno (of Toyota Production System fame) in which every employee on the assembly line has a responsibility to push a big red button that stops everything whenever they notice a defect on the assembly line. When this was first introduced people couldn’t wrap their heads around it; it was part of manufacturing dogma that the best thing you could do as a plant manager was to keep your assembly lines running full steam as many hours of the day as possible so that you’re maximizing throughput. His idea, however, was that by fixing inefficiencies and problems as they occur what you’re doing instead of maximizing your existing process is actually proactively building a better one.” “When he put this system into practice he found that some of his managers took his advice and some didn’t. The managers who implemented Stop the Line had their productivity drop by a shocking amount; they were spending much of their time fixing defects on the line rather than actually producing any goods. The managers who hadn’t listened thought this was a great victory for them, and I can just imagine… Read more »

excellent work, sven, Thanks

No, what is your source that Tesla was intentionally passing cars with known defects out to customers with the specific intent of shifting significant amounts of money in their books.

What is your source for that?

I don’t know if Tesla’s “specific intent” was to shift expenses from COGS to GSA (and I never said it was), but passing cars with known defects to customers certainly did have the “effect” of shifting expenses from COGS to GS&A expenses, which increased Tesla’s gross profit and gross profit margin (and is what I actually said).

I also said that Tesla had an “expectation” that customers would their defective cars to Service Centers multiple time to repair all the defects/issues (as opposed to lemon lawing their defective cars, which is what I meant to say, but didn’t actually say it). That was just my opinion.

You can find numerous threads and comments at TeslaMotorsClub about the condition of those early Model X cars which were delivered to customers.

Now that we’ve disposed of any claims of nefarious intent on behalf of Tesla, please quantify how much revenue was shifted.

What is your source of how much cost was shifted, and show that it was actually a statistically significant amount. Was it a 10% shift? A 1% shift? A .01% shift?

You claim that this “increased Tesla’s gross profit and gross profit margin”.

By how much? 1% of profits? 0.001% of profits? Please support your claims with sources.

He does have an agenda, as a Via Motors executive he doesn’t want Tesla making electric trucks. Also it’s a speculation but how much is he still tied to GM, as part of his retirement, connections, etc?

I don’t know if Bob is still getting income from GM, or if he still owns GM stocks, but it seems pretty obvious from his comments over the past few years that at the least, he wants to support and protect the image of his legacy at GM, particularly his oversight of the development of the Volt.

IMO it doesn’t really matter that much whether or not he’s still economically invested, since he’s clearly still emotionally invested.

Why would he care? VIA Motors isn’t making trucks either.

Right, so below the line is where the cash gets soaked up. Lutz had a point about this.

If I were king of accounting, I’d capitalize instead of expensing the R&D, SDG&A that goes into future product, because that is for an asset yet to be created (presumably, and not AP2.0, etc). This is where the lines get blurred with Tesla’s accounting and each gets to chose his short, or cult, narrative of what’s going on. It’s easy to buy a Model 3 robot, and list it as an asset impacting cash and not quarterly income. My impression is Tesla is taking the cost of programming the robot as a current (above/below the line) expense. I see a “gap” there, in analytical interpretation 😉

Nothing tops today’s WSJ “bill coming due” article, showing a growing A/P line. Who’d have thought growing companies would have such a thing /sarc.

Excellent, rational response; Tesla has done amazing things for EVs, no question; and have beaten back the naysaying with dignity and success… but its a grind to cut through the fog of fanboyism from folks who actually know very little about the industries they speak of, in the way they’ve anointed Elon as God – and that Tesla can do no wrong. There’s a reality somewhere between Elon and Bob, but much like politics, too many people have an ‘all or nothing’ mentality rather than realizing the world is a bit more complicated than what soundbites or tweets allow for. SAD! No, wait, #imwithher

RE ‘all or nothing’
I view it as extension to this painful election year — it’s not that it Didn’t exist before 2016, it’s that it got so shrill, divisive and derogatory. Makes it just Painful to read most Tesla articles anymore.

Will it wind down/back to the occasional again, after November? We can hope..

The extreme amount of anti-Tesla FUD which exists on the Internet, perhaps most obviously on display on the stock investor site Seeking Alpha, has existed for years; it has nothing to do with the current Presidential campaign. Elon Musk says that at times, TSLA is the most shorted stock, which certainly helps explain why there is so very much FUD directed against Tesla.

The FUD campaign isn’t going to go away when the election is over. However, with Tesla shifting more towards GAAP accounting than the non-GAAP accounting they’ve used in the past, analysts say there is less room there for a short stock position. We can hope — hope! — that this will result in less frequent FUD posts from serial Tesla bashers here on InsideEVs.

. — ,crickets. — .

I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to say there.

Pushy — you are correct. Measured as a percent of outstanding stocks being shorted, TSLA is massively over-shorted, with approx 25% of the outstanding shared being borrowed to shorters. The extreme shorting has gotten so crazy, that the cost to borrow shares has increased over 1000%. As you probably know, shorters have to pay to borrow the TSLA shares they want to short. Not to get into the weeds too far, but the price shorters were paying to borrow those shares went from 2 to a peak of 25 recently. TSLA shares are so over-shorted that the chances of another short-driven stock price spike is nearly inevitable. The last time TSLA shares were shorted this much, was right before “Tesla gained $7.36 to a record $76.76” https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-05-10/tesla-motors-short-covering-sustains-gains-mover We are nearing another one of those financial events where shorters find they all have to cover losses and buy shares at higher and higher prices to cover their shorts. If all the shorters try to cover their short sales all at the same time, they collectively would have to buy up 25% of all of TSLA’s shares!! Such a demand will push up share prices massively, just like it did before. If… Read more »

Nix said:

“As you probably know…”

Well actually, the intricacies of financial matters are a subject upon which I treasure my ignorance. 😉

But seriously, I appreciate you taking the time to explain all that. I do think that it’s important to “Know your enemy”, as Sun Tzu put it, which is why I spent a few months reading Tesla-related Seeking Alpha blog posts on a daily basis. I read enough that I know most of the bashers’ arguments and can usually spot the fallacies and factual errors. (Of course, they do keep inventing new ones!)

But much of what you said was new to me, so thank you! I learned something today.

From what you say, I guess I was being overly optimistic in thinking the recent apparent reduction in Tesla bashing posts here on InsideEVs was due to a dropoff in “short” interest. Perhaps it’s more a result of increased attention from InsideEVs’ moderators?

I’ve noticed a drop off in the activity of a couple of specific trolls. I tie that directly back to mod’s requesting a specific shorter who claimed his short position was well-known, to make his/her short position well known every time they post about a product they are shorting.

But that was actually back when 22% of TSLA shares were being loaned out to shorters, and that has since then increased to 25%. Hard to know whether that is more people choosing to short TSLA, or whether that is the same people doubling down on their shorts.

ZEV credits are certainly legitimate source of income and must be included in GAAP accounting. Shifting them from one quarter to another may be not so legitimate, but it isn’t the biggest animal in the room. You should look at all numbers, how they changed from last quarters and understand what it means. The problem with Tesla culties is that they defy arithmetic or any basic science and just want to worship and live in illusionary dream world about perfect future.

E.g.: x-y=z. If you decrease y, z increases. But equation stays the same.
If you drop capital expenditure off the cliff in Q3, free cash flow becomes positive. You won’t be ready for next model mass production then of course.
If you increase “accounts payable” by 628 millions, you may show profit somehow. Somebody would still need to order all these goods and raw materials for production next quarter, or stop factory for “reorganizing”.
If you drop Average Sale Price by $6000+ per car, you will get much better sales number. Somebody will still need to provide warranty service for these cars and buy back 2 year leases, and if you didn’t left money for it, you may be doomed.

Eat your Heart 0ut! Greedy 0ld Man !

hwɛ! you don’t have to agree with everything that lutz says, but if you say that *nothing* that he said has any merit, then you might be one of the “cult members” of which he was referring.

Agreed, but Bob Lutz should’ve been named ‘Bob Putz’ since *much* of what he has said/done is bs.

Staying afloat is not that challenging right now- just like making a profit with investments during a bull market. The real question is whether or not Tesla will survive an inevitable sales slump. A couple of bad quarters and fleeing investors can be fatal.

Lutz actually nails the cult part pretty accurately 🙂

Nope. It’s a lazy metaphore, from a lazy thinker. Maybe even a touch of jealousy… Want a grape, Bob?

Admiration, respect and support for Elon and his Employees’ efforts to forge a better world, have nothing to do with superstition or mysticism. The facts and deeds behind this POV are there for all to see– if you aren’t already blind from bitterness, corruption or ignorance.

Anon,

You really nailed the cult member response like only a true cult member could. Dear leader Elon would be very proud of you. 😀

Sven your idol has talked, feel proud for 20 seconds.

Hillary said something. I must have missed it. What did she say?

But seriously, my comment to Anon was a joke. You cult members have no sense of humor. 😉

No, your post wasn’t intended as a joke at all. It’s a standard tactic from serial FUDsters to claim “I was just joking!” when they’re called on their insulting, anti-social language.

A tactic. Not an honest opinion.

FYI, 😉 or 😀 = joking.

It’s a standard tactic of serial trolls like yourself to constantly claim other people are FUDsters. 🙁

How many dozens of people on this forum have you accused of being FUDsters, paid shills,
Tesla bashers, and/or short sellers? Hmmm?

Just the other day you accused YET ANOTHER regular poster of being a short seller and Tesla basher:

“Pushmi-Pullyu”
“October 26, 2016 at 6:02 am”
“I’ve noticed a definite tendency in your posts, SparkEV-Fiat500, to bash Tesla. Now, is it that you have a biased but honest negative opinion about the company’s cars? Or, like too many serial Tesla bashers here, are your posts motivated by a “short” stock position?”

http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-s-regains-consumer-reports-recommended-status-model-x-plagued-with-problems/#comment-1080147

Pu-pu, you have mental problems, a man-crush on Elon, and/or are trying to live vicariously through Elon to fill the empty void that is your pathetic life. I feel sorry for you. 🙁

PuPu goes over the top often when it comes to seeing criticism of Tesla as “short sellers” and man-crush is just wrong when Elon could never reciprocate. He should live vicariously through SpakEV (the car) to fill the empty void that is his pathetic life. 🙂

Apparently you have me confused with someone else, since I probably criticize Elon more often than I praise him.

Now, regarding the unprovoked pejoratives you cast in my direction… I hope that’s not just you projecting your own feelings about yourself onto someone else. Because if it is, then you must not like yourself very much.

No Pushmi-Pullyu, you need to relax.

The whole ‘cult’ term, invites itself to make jokes here, and 😉 and 🙂 do indicate a person intentions.

I appreciated the joke when someone — I think it was you? — suggested in a recent comment that I’m the “Grand Wizard” of the Cult of Elon.

But some of the comments about “the cult of Elon” in this thread certainly appear not to be joking; not joking at all. Not talking about you, and I’m sorry if you got caught in the crossfire.

When someone who persists in a feud with you “teases” you, it’s not really just teasing, and it’s not really a joke. It’s mean-spirited, and putting a smiley on it doesn’t change the fact that the intent is mean-spirited. Also, it was actually a moderator who first observed that sven and I were engaged in a persistant feud; I hadn’t realized it until it was pointed out. So it’s not like I’m imagining that.

Poo-poo said:
“When someone who persists in a feud with you ‘teases’ you, it’s not really just teasing, and it’s not really a joke. It’s mean-spirited, and putting a smiley on it doesn’t change the fact that the intent is mean-spirited.”

So you’re saying that Anon is really you, and Anon is your sockpuppet screen name. How many other sockpuppet screen names do you have on InsideEVs? Is Get Real another one of your sockpuppet screen names?
That’s really pathetic. I feel sad for you. 🙁

sven asked:

“How many dozens of people on this forum have you accused of being FUDsters, paid shills, Tesla bashers, and/or short sellers? Hmmm?”

Hmmm, I dunno about “dozens”, but as many as I thought deserved it. And thank goodness very few of those Tesla bashing FUDsters are as shameless and persistent as you, sven.

BTW, thanks for quoting what you mis-characterized as an “accusation” in full, so everyone can see that you’re just showing your own extreme bias yet again. If I had meant it to be an accusation, rather than what it was — merely holding up a mirror to what he was saying — then it actually would have been an accusation.

I’m a Tesla fan. Not a Tesla cult member. A Tesla cult doesn’t exist. Cults are followers/believers of things that don’t exist. I can touch all Tesla products if I wanted to.

> “Cults are followers/believers of things that don’t exist.”

That’s not the definition of a cult.

Cults can exist for objects that you can touch.

Correct. For instance the ‘Cargo Cult.’

Like alien spaceships that are going to come by and take you to paradise after you kill yourself??

Holy crap! That must mean aliens are real and here because you can “touch them”.

Not to mention, can’t you touch a Tesla??

What?

Thanks for only proving his point…

It is a bit cult like, just for points of comparison.
1. Charismatic Leader. (Check).
2. Devoted Followers. (Check).
3. Visionary Claims. (Check).
4. Iconoclastic. (Check).

The problem is that if a company has a cult following that does not automatically mean it will fail. The conditions are not mutually exclusive.
Of course he did not say anything about what a wonderful car it is, and how people simply love driving it, it’s residual value, it’s impressive performance…etc…
So would there be a cult if the car was a piece of crap? Cause and effect Bob. Like when the big asteroid came and helped wiped out the dinosaurs.
Tesla has come along and will wipe out the dinosaurs, like you, from the Jurassic age of cars.

DJ, you got us, we are a cult. My cult membership number is 3265K3.

Congratulations. The first step in solving the problem is admitting that you have one 🙂

You’ve got to think that if Bob Lutz is talking crap about you, then you must be doing something right.

Wonder if GM isn’t rewarding him for smack-talking Elon & Co., just before Tesla Financials come out? Interesting coincidence…

I was wondering that too. Ol’ Bob seems a bit persistent in his ravings.

Now the cultists think it’s a conspiracy against Tesla. LOL!

That’s right, many of us are out to get Tesla, and we are organized. 😉

Where’s Pushy, we need him in here for maximum entertainment value. He would be typing up a storm by now. 😀

Dude, you need to adjust your tinfoil hat. It’s cutting off the blood supply to your brain.

Bob is a former GM executive who is smack-talking about the CEO of a “young turk” company which is cutting into GM’s market, and also the market for his current company, Via Motors. That isn’t a conspiracy. There’s no hidden agenda there. It’s perfectly normal, perfectly obvious competition. Just as obvious is Bob’s strong jealousy toward a very successful rival. That’s neither hidden nor a conspiracy, either.

+1

Doing Something right Or perhaps something that Bob could NEVER accomplish in his wildest dreams..He gave it a shot & He went NOWHERE real FAST!….Yes., Bob is a part of the problem that many wish would go away!

I’m no economist or financial expert, but isn’t Tesla’s lack of profitability due to the fact that they are dumping almost everything they make back into the company so they can continue to rabidly grow? Like, if they stopped R&D, deploying new service centers, galleries, and superchargers, stopped work on the gigafactory, and stopped work on the other expansions. I’m sure Tesla would be very profitable if they stopped all that. Lutz is stupid. GM went bankrupt…why does this dudes opinion even matter?

It doesn’t matter to me

That sums it up in a nut shell! He’s not stupid , Just greedy..

> but isn’t Tesla’s lack of profitability due to the fact that they are dumping almost everything they make back into the company so they can continue to rabidly grow?

Exactly. If you check their Statement of Operations, they made a payments of over $214 million into Research and Development, which goes against their revenue earned for the period. They are investing a lot of current revenue into future revenue.

The fact they made a profit, while making huge payments towards manufacturing of cars and batteries is great.

It a good sign.

Since we appear to agree 100% on the fundamentals of Tesla Motors’ corporate performance, and its near-term outlook, then it seems odd that you feel compelled to keep throwing mud in my direction, AlphaEdge.

Perhaps we agree on the fundamentals more than either one of us realize.

Mud? I was just teasing you, thus the reason for 😉 in those few recent posts.

Sorry, if you were offended.

The only problem that they don’t make anything positive. They are “dumping back to the company” everything they can milk each year from naive investors, duped by Wall Street serial share pumpers and dumpers. To be more accurate, not just to the company. Personal accounts of CEO are not forgotten too, last share dump included some ~600 millions to CEO personally “to pay taxes” :/ Now we will have another money shower at Tesla shareholder expense to save failing side business of milking utility ratepayers on netmetering incentive. Who cares really, if shareholders are ok with it, they the “suckers born every minute”, nobody will be able to save them.

zzzzzzzzzz said:

“The only problem that they don’t make anything positive.”

Lessee… the Tesla Model S got more “best car of the year” reviews from professional auto reviewers than any other car in history, and some even called it “the best car ever made”.

When Consumer Reports did their driving review of the Model S, it “broke the scale” they used for evaluating cars. CR also says that Tesla has the highest customer satisfaction rating of any auto maker.

So tell us, zzzzzzzzzz, are you:

1. Confusing Tesla Motors with some other company

2. Off your meds

-or-

3. Just shoveling out FUD that you know is complete B.S.

Inquiring minds want to know! 😉

That’s the difference between Tesla and GM. When you hear Elon Musk say “the mission of Tesla is to accelerate the change to sustainable transport” Gm’s mission is to sell cars. So now you can understand why Bob Lutz doesn’t get it or Tesla customers. It’s not built into his DNA to understand Tesla ‘s mission. Hey me Putz, I was considering a Chevy Bolt, but will remove it from consideration. Nice job insulting your potential customers

+1

BINGO…very well stated.

I’d like to know if there is any profit on at $35K Tesla Model 3, and if not, how much will they lose per car?

I know they expect most out the door sales to be higher than that, but I just want to know how “cheap” they can make an EV.

The SEC fileing says Tesla expects 11% initial margins on Model 3. This is expected to increase over time.

But is that based on an average transaction price of $42,000

If there is an 11% margin at ~$43k average transaction price, that would mean the break even price is around $38.7k….and anything less would be sold at a loss.

No wonder no one will see a base $35k Model 3 for up to a year after the first 3’s are delivered! Tesla would be killed if they sold base 3’s upon launch.

The 11% estimated initial profit margin on an average sales price of $42,000 does not actually imply that sales price below $38.x thousand is at a loss.

A base Model 3 sold at $35,000 would have less options and so would be cheaper to build than the $42,000 car. We can expect the estimated initial profit margin would be lower than on the $42,000 car but we cannot conclude that it would be zero or negative. Not enough information.

At any rate for the first six months or so they’ll only be producing higher optioned cars, so it’s not a worry. After that they should have production issues ironed out and be able to make a modest profit on a base model.

That’s my guess and I’m sticking to it!

bro1999 said: “If there is an 11% margin at ~$43k average transaction price, that would mean the break even price is around $38.7k….and anything less would be sold at a loss.” That does not logically follow. The $38.7k car (and the $35k car) costs Tesla less to build than the $43k car, so it doesn’t have to sell the cheaper cars at the same price to make a profit. Let’s put this another way: Why would Tesla put a price on cars which would result in selling them at a loss? Tesla has shown a willingness to chancel cars which wouldn’t be profitable for them to make, such as the original Model S40. Now, anyone who has read Jay Cole’s fascinating deep dive into the financial strategies of selling cars on the international market knows that sometimes, auto makers do sell cars at a loss in certain regions of the world, so long as they can make an average profit on global sales. But I don’t think there’s any case to be made for Tesla being willing to sell any trim level of the Model ≡ at a loss in the U.S. Exception: It’s quite likely that Tesla will take… Read more »
bro199 — your math ASSumes that $8,000 dollars worth of options have zero costs to Tesla. At $38.7k, applying the same 11% profit margin on that $8000 in options, Tesla’s cost on a $35K stripper would be less than $32.5K. If you use a wildly aggressive 50% profit margin on options, they would still be at break-even. But yes, that is why Tesla is going to launch their higher optioned cars first, before they sell lower optioned cars. But this isn’t some new phenomena in the automotive industry. Go and try to find a stripper version of cars on car lots. For most cars, they are rare and hard to find. They almost all come with some options already installed. Most cars on car lots have thousands of dollars of options already installed. This is no different. All car makers rely upon options to boost profits, and sell stripper cars at thin margins. All car makers make more profit in the middle of a model run, and less profit at the beginning and end of a car’s run. It is simply that traditional ICE car makers can hide this fact by having multiple lines of cars. Tesla is unique in… Read more »

Very little, if any, but I don’t think they will make that many, and not for a very long time, since high buck configurations get higher priority.

That would be interesting to know, for sure.

My opinion is that by the time they get around to producing and selling base Model 3s that they will have high enough volume and initial production problems ironed out so that they make at least a modest profit margin on the base $35,000 Model 3.

I seriously doubt they are going into this with a game plan that calls for selling the base model at a loss.

Kdawg asked:

“I’d like to know if there is any profit on at $35K Tesla Model 3, and if not, how much will they lose per car?”

Is it normal for an auto maker to lose money on the “stripped down”, no options, base trim levels of their cars? That’s not a rhetorical question; I’d like to know.

What we do know is that Tesla’s gross profit margin on making and selling cars is appreciably higher than the industry average, altho not the highest in the industry.

Given that higher than average profit margin, I would be surprised if Tesla does not make a profit, albeit a small one, on even the base trim level of its cars.

I think Tesla’s profit margin is higher on the cars they have made so far is because they make “luxury” cars. If you look at the profit margins on Bentlys, Ferraris, or whatever $100K car, I’m sure they have more profit margin than a Honda Accord.

The question is what kind of profit (if any) can we expect on at $35K Tesla?

Tesla and/or Elon have stated that the goal is to make a 15% profit margin on the Model ≡. Of course, just because Tesla plans to make a 15% profit doesn’t mean they’ll hit that target exactly. But it’s a data point, anyway.

Yes, I see your point about luxury (or “premium”) cars having a higher average profit margin. Thanks.

Pushy — Like all car companies, Tesla will make more profit per unit on higher optioned cars than strippers.

Like all car companies, Tesla will make more profit on a model of car in the middle of the model’s lifecycle, and less in the first and last years of production.

Car companies (including Tesla) determine the profitability of an entire model lifespan over the entire projected life of the model. So the first generation Model 3 may have a 5 year lifespan before the 2nd generation Model 3 comes out. To calculate profits, Tesla will project all 5 years of sales, with year 1 having lower profit margins, and year 5 requiring discounting as it becomes uncompetitive with other car maker’s new offerings.

So it is natural for the M3 stripper to have very thin profit margins in the first year of production. Just like all other cars built by any other car company. Which is why it will likely be a number of months before they start selling strippers. Because they will wait out this natural cycle until it makes financial sense to sell the M3 stripper.

Elon Musk is part of the solution – Bob Lutz is part of the problem.

+1

He is pro-EV, so how is he part of the problem?

You mean, anyone who does not worship at your cult is part of the problem?

Is the Bolt part of the problem?

Why do he care? Bob Lutz should just shut up and take care of his own business.

You’re just proving his point. Cultist! 😉

Tesla is a CLASSIC Vertically integrated modern auto company. Not only do they build cars,
they build many of the
-components
-software
-charging infrastructure
-batteries
and in the future the
-solar panels
that their cars and customer base need.

While GM, just builds their cars, and OUTSOURCES the battery, and the software.

Tesla, is now a 12 Billion dollar in Assets company because of their advanced robotics, assembly line, paint shop and battery manufacturing facilities, and soon solar facilities.

If you think admiration of all that STANDARD Vertical Integration is a “cult”, maybe Lutz should go back to Business School.

Lutz has an MBA in “Marketing”.
He needs to go back and get an MBA in MANUFACTURING,
because he clearly doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

Bob Lutz is getting very old. But the two worst things for him is that all he had work for all his life is dying, and that Tesla is the catalytic cause (or at least one of the strongest ones) of this. So his world is falling apart and the other worst part is that he could handle this lost…at the condition he would has to be the proudly responsible of this sort of “end of the world” for ICE cars and a big hit for oil dominance. He is not, and at the same place he would love to be, it is this guy from Silicon Valley that had not failed (so far) although all the odds and all the principal greedy industrial empires of the world against him and his outstanding and indefatigable team. So, a lot of people who before used to feel that a better world would be impossible because of these empires of greed, now have a hope. And HOPE is a very dangerous cult to whom who want to dominate doing business as usual ad eternum. If having hope is part of a cult, so a lot of people is becoming part of this… Read more »
AlphaEdge said: “He is pro-EV, so how is he part of the problem?” Well, it seems like nearly everyone posting here sees why Bob is now part of the problem, and no longer part of the solution. So why is it that you can’t see it? If you have to be a “cultist” to admire Tesla for its vision and its accomplishments, then I guess the vast majority of people are Tesla cultists, according to your definition! Including all those professional auto reviewers who gave the Model S all those “Best Car of the Year” or even “Best Car Ever Made” reviews! At some point, AlphaEdge, it’s helpful to recognize that your own viewpoint is pretty far from the middle of the bell curve. There seems to be some cognitive dissonance in your posts in this very thread. On the one hand, you seem to think that Tesla Motors is on a solid financial footing, and therefore is not — as the TSLA bashers keep claiming — just making cars to promote an elaborate stock selling scam. But on the other hand, you seem to regard anyone who expresses admiration for Tesla’s accomplishments and vision as a “cultist”. So what’s… Read more »

There is a difference between teasing someone and making accusations of shorting Tesla, of which you have accused me many times in the past, with no apologies I might add.

I knew you would like what I said about Tesla’s financials. It’s just feeds into your fanboyism.

Relax, Tesla is not going to fail because of a few comments online like you seem to think.

It would be nice, if would could all enjoy this EV revolution without your constant oversight.

Many people here having taken Bob’s comments in a light heartened manner, including myself, but you among others see it as an attack on your beloved Tesla.

Fair cop, AlphaEdge; I offer my sincere apologies for calling you an anti-Tesla FUDster and/or a shill for short-selling TSLA. For what it’s worth, I have definitely taken you off my personal list of “likely or definitely a financially motivated, disinformation spouting Tesla basher.”

On the other hand, altho I like to think I can take a joke as well as the next guy, and I think we should all be able to poke fun at ourselves, when you persist in teasing someone exactly the same way several times in a row, it no longer comes across as a joke.

Goldfinger said, ‘Mr. Bond, they have a saying in Chicago: “Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, the third time it’s enemy action.”‘

— Ian Fleming, Goldfinger

AlphaEdge dazzled us with his brilliance:
“He is pro-EV, so how is he part of the problem?”

Lutz is not pro-EV. He has stated many times that you can’t make money on EVs and Maximum Bob is all about profit. Check out his latest venture, the Destino; yeah, boy, now there’s an EV!

“You mean, anyone who does not worship at your cult is part of the problem?”

What is wrong with you?

“Is the Bolt part of the problem?”

What does Lutz have to do with the Bolt? He fathered that too, did he?

http://evobsession.com/bob-lutz-2017-chevy-bolt-wont-be-profitable-i-think/

How can Bob be anti-EV and yet at the same time be accused of having an agenda because of VIA motors, and his former employer’s efforts in the EV field?

I guess he failed by being a heretic, and not worshiping Tesla.

How are Tesla groupies any different from the motor heads that swear by GM, Ford, and Dodge? Most display their allegiance with decals on their vehicles violating the logo of the brand they despise most while touting their brand of choice?
I know people who followed the Church of Saab and Volvo regardless of how dire the situation was…

the difference is that with tesla fanboys, it’s less a case of brand identification with the brand “tesla” and more a case of cultism surrounding the personality of elon musk. to tasla fanboys, elon musk and tesla are one in the same. i believe that part of the reason why elon musk makes himself so visible is for job security; it will cause the board of directors to think twice before giving musk the axe because there are a lot of tesla followers who are elon musk fanboys and those fanboys would almost certainly boycott tesla if the tesla board gave musk the axe. that gives musk more latitude to pursue shaky propositions like the solarcity merger/bailout.

You mean you don’t follow Mark Fields on Twitter? 😀

who?

What utter claptrap! If you don’t like the Tesla/SolarCity merger, that’s fine, but you’re being too cute by half in trying to blame its possible acceptance on “fanboyism”.

Does Mr Musk have an avid fan base? Most definitely! He accomplishing some dramatic changes in some really entrenched industries that had been stagnant for a long time. Of course, in doing these things, he has just as many, if not more, detractors. So the reflexively negative crowd, who throw insults and FUD at the mere mention of the man’s name, could by their own definition, be considered a “cult”.

Elon Musk is creating an industry where none existed before.

In that he is much like the better parts of Henry Ford who remains iconic for more than just the industry he created.

To acknowledge those accomplishments is not “fanboyish” but sincere respect for the focus and bravery getting to this point has required.

Do the people you respect not deserve admiration? Better find better ones.

+1 G2 and floydboy

“to tasla fanboys, elon musk and tesla are one in the same.”

Funny, I don’t seem to have any problem seeing a difference between the two. Maybe the problem with perception lies more with you than with us.

Or perhaps, like Bob Lutz, it’s that jealousy of Elon Musk’s many successes has made you blind to reality.

you write more “in elon we trust…” drivel on this forum that just about anyone else. as far as i can tell, you appear to be a card-carrying member of the elon musk cult club.

“no comment” said:

“you write more ‘in elon we trust…’ drivel on this forum that just about anyone else.”

I challenge you to find any post in which I’ve expressed such a sentiment. Just one.

My most frequent comment about Elon has been something along the lines of “I admire Elon for his vision, his devotion to his work, and his willingness to put his money where his mouth is, but I’m not blind to his faults, such as his tendency to micro-manage and his habit of making ‘unfiltered’ public statements.”

Perhaps you have overlooked the recent posts where I’ve said that Tesla Motors would be better off if Elon took a step back, let someone else take over as CEO, and spent his time concentrating on SpaceX.

I’m beginning to think there really is a cult here; a cult of those who are so jealous of Elon Musk that it distorts every comment anybody makes about Elon or Tesla Motors. >:-/

Count me in as a cult member. I still criticized Tesla often (like those Falcking-wing doors) but Tesla does far more right than they do wrong. They are moving the ball down the field fast and forcing everyone else to mimic them.

Bob Lutz needs to retire and STFU.

Exactly. That’s pretty much the ONLY thing you can criticis3e Tesla about, is the Falcon wing doors.

So, your criticism is valid, where as Lutz sounds like an uninformed idiot.

“So, your criticism is valid,”

Yep, that about sums it up..

I agree with the cult part at least. Just look at the abuse you get on this very forum if you post anything even slightly negative about Tesla.

That’s right, you can file a complaint on the Tesla Cult line, call 1-800-LUV-TSLA

Planet of The Apes!

To nitpick (and expose my inner geek), I think that’s actually from “Beneath the Planet…”

Let us show our air purified by you!

I love when they drag Lutz back from obscurity to be the naysayer. He is good at playing the old curmudgeon.

btw none of his observation and facts are completely wrong about Tesla or it’s fans. His prediction of a failing Tesla is wrong though (in my opinion) because he is viewing Tesla through his car industry lens.

Tesla is not a car company, it’s an energy solutions company for those that want to break free from fossil fuels. The electrification of all residential energy needs with generation through solar and on-site storage of that energy means freedom from the oil and gas industry.

That is why Tesla has an EV cult following and other car companies do not. Lutz can’t see that because he does not think climate change is a really issue and he still views the car industry through a pre-GM bankruptcy lens.

I do have to admit he is entertaining to watch play the old curmudgeon. Love the hate.

For the next interview, CNBC should put Lutz up in the balcony with Statler and Waldorf of muppets fame for a round table (balcony?) discussion. 😉

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14njUwJUg1I

I really love those puppet Sven!
Remember me some relative…

sven:

If you love “The Muppet Show”, and especially Statler and Waldorf, then that’s one thing we heartily agree on! 🙂

It must suck seeing a guy from Silicon Valley single-handedly crush the business you spent your life building…at the same time he builds a freakin’ space company…and energy company.

That must Burn Bob’s Wrinkled Ass …lol

He is just jealous!
Own a model S and, sorry, you just can’t help to become a fan-boy. Own a Cadillac Catera and you want to rally the villagers with pitchforks and torches to burn the Frankenstein Castle, aka GM, down to the ground.

“He is just jealous!”

He’s so obviously jealous, I’m embarrassed for him. Not to mention he’s ignoring reality. ~400,000 reservations for the Model ≡ at $1000 certainly is a very strong indication the company will survive, at least for the next several years.

Via Motors? Not so clear they’ll be around five years from now.

Poor Bob, his Volt Gen1 couldn’t beat Tesla, his VIA trucks and vans couldn’t beat Tesla and now his ICE VLF Destino which costs $229K can’t even come close to a P100DL in performance…

Wonder if there’s a iPhone in his pocket?

He us right from the point of view of a dinosaur an old man, but is wrong with reality, he belongs to a generation who believes we worship computers, IPads, wireless connection, internet and Teslas, belong to a generation incapable to see how transforming is technology because he uses it just for basic stuff, if you talk to must people of his generation they may think like that.

I LOVE YOU BACK ELON…Tesla Cult membership number 3265K3 Proud member since 2010.

The Big Three want their cult back.
Look at how Lutz and his peers once controlled the American carbuyer with mass marketing and a priesthood of lying dealers smearing small and imported brands in every town. It took two generations to break its hold on our loyalties.

Lutz has this backwards.
The cult is the one that HATES elon musk and screams about everything that he does.
He makes a profit while at the same time, undergoing a major expansion, and yet, ppl are griping.
Only a cult would gripe about that.

I wish he would focus on making Via Motors viable and successful.

++

Tesla builds the best electric car, period.
I reserved the model 3. The only reason why I don’t have a Tesla Model S or X is because I refuse to pay that much for a car. In a year and a half or two the charging infrastructure will have been built to my satisfaction. I’m making do with a 2016 Chevy Volt until the real deal ( model 3) comes to Market. And I will never buy a car through a dealership again.

Bob Lutz is absolutely correct. Just post something critical of Tesla or its most famous under-employed mouthpiece, Bjorn Nyland, and watch the replies from Tesla cult members.

That’s kinda the way it works dude! You throw out your VALID criticisms, then those of opposing opinions answer. If, on the other hand, you’re just throwing out HATEFUL BULLSHIT, then expect a response in kind!?

In the automotive industry, this is usually referred to as “customer loyalty”.

Try getting a Chevy truck owner to switch sometime. Observe carefully how said truck owner will immediately insult your heritage and the possibility that you never had a mother to begin with.

But that’s different, right?

Poor Lutz. First the global climate change hoax and now the Tesla cult. It’s so hard to be wingnut these days.

Haha…. Bob Lutz finally got around to saying what I’ve been saying for years… Its the “Steve Jobs” phenomenon.

Bob Lutz is confusing the issue with the truth: He and I may be right, but it simply doesn’t matter.

To date, Tesla has been extraordinarily succssful since Wall Street Loves them…

Tesla COULD go – at least per some people’s views – for another 20 YEARS before having to change their business model, which when they are forced to change, I have no doubt that Tesla will.

That’s rich coming from a Martin Eberhard worshiper like yourself, Bill.

Never met any of the 3 men, Elon’s thanks to me was via a blanket email.

I don’t worship men, because they have great tendency to disappoint.

I do miss the 3 engineers working on the Roadster, as those guys’ lives were cut short, and besides, they were pretty smart.

“I just don’t see anything about Tesla that gives me any confidence that that business can survive.”

Poor Bob. Once a respected and visionary automotive executive; now reduced to yelling “Get off my lawn!” at Elon Musk.

Sad. 😥

Yeah, I don’t get it either Push.

As a veteran executive, Lutz should know when congratulate a competitor and bring positive exposure to his own company that produces EREV trucks. Instead, he just continues to embarrass himself and Via Motors with bizarre ramblings, bashing Tesla’s amazing success. I just wonder how long their board will tolerate it.

“I just don’t see anything about Tesla that gives me any confidence that that business can survive.”

– GAAP profit of $22 million, adjusted $111 million
– 2.3 Billion of revenue, and increase of 145% over last year
– Gross margins of almost 22%
– Deliveries of almost 25,000 cars, up 114% over last year
– Almost 400,000 cars on order, backlogged until 2018

It sounds like Tesla is doing just fine to me.

Re “”Get off my lawn”
It’s even sadder.
If Lutz actually had a company that was doing something in the EV space and had a difference of opinion with Musk it’s one thing (even then, the name-calling would be uncalled for).
As things stand, he doesn’t even have a lawn at all…

Dear Tesla disciples:

Confess! Confess!!! CONFESS!!! 😉

THANK YOU SIR MAY I HAVE ANOTHER
Proud Tesla disciple since 2010
Member ID 3265K3

XIMINEZ: Right! If that’s the way you want it — Cardinal! Poke her with the soft cushions!

XIMINEZ: Confess! Confess! Confess!

BIGGLES: It doesn’t seem to be hurting her, lord.

XIMINEZ: Have you got all the stuffing up one end?

BIGGLES: Yes, lord.

XIMINEZ: Hm! She is made of harder stuff!
Cardinal Fang! Fetch…THE COMFY CHAIR!

Sorry of my facts are wrong, but didn’t GM get a massive bail out? So they really should be out of business?
Don’t agree that Elon Musk had not delivered anything, last I checked there were about 70,000 Tesla’s driving around, and everyone who drives them seems pretty dammed happy, and everyone not driving them seems to want one.
I think Tesla is being very aggressive with their capital plan, it takes a lot of cash to build factories, so no wonder of they are burning through it at the moment. GM had a significant amount of time to build their factories, so they already gone through that stage. If Tesla lasts the distance, in 50 years since other upstart will come along and maybe Tesla will be saying things like Bob is saying, but I hope they are different and help the upstart along.
I drive a Leaf and I get the fan boy aspect of Tesla fans. Really no different to following a sports team, you how they win, you talk then up, and you keep a close eye on them.

Sheee.
Now I know why it not funny getting old!

If I put a Tesla badge on my Leaf, do I get access to the cult?

On the other hand, he might know how to go bankrupt when you don’t have government(mean all of us) support$

Like the old saying goes: when losing badly, attack the winner.

Lutz, sorry your company is floundering, so you have nothing left but to attack the company that is burying you.

Lutz, your VIA trucks have the advantage of being in the best selling growth categories of vehicles in the US (light trucks), and you still can’t beat Tesla’s large sedan offering, which happens to be in a category that has been shrinking in market share for decades.

Lutz, your VIA trucks cost less than typical Model S vehicle prices, and you still can’t even touch Tesla sales numbers.

Lutz, your trucks all qualify for the huge Section 179 tax loophole, AKA the “SUV Tax Loophole” or the “Hummer Deduction”, and you still can’t even touch Tesla sales numbers.

Sorry that with all those advantages, you still have to punch from way below at those far above you.

He speaks w his classless agenda, his attitude is horrible, and he simply acts like a sore loser.

Nix, for “you can’t touch” to even mean something, VIA Motors would actually have to sell something. They haven’t sold a single production vehicle to anyone, ever, at retail that I can find (and I’ve looked); the “fleet sales” mentioned are really small pilot programs.

Good point! I too would agree that their fleet sales more resemble a pilot program than a true B2B business.

It is hilarious that all the H2 Fuel Cell cult members all show up on every single Tesla story, and start pointing fingers!

Indeed, the serial Tesla bashers with their conspiracy theories, their constant chanting of FUD mantras, and their parroting of smear campaigns, are utterly blind to the irony of calling Tesla fanboys a “cult”.

I’m glad Tesla finally turned a profit. It is important that Tesla does so in subsequent quarters. Yes, indeed, it takes billions of dollars to start up a new car company. Eye on the ball though MUST mean profits! Especially when the start up is a paradigm shifting car company. note: every auto company that is beginning to follow Tesla’s lead speaks volumes to what is taking place here. Tesla has the heavy lift…IT’S LEADING. I wish them well and much future profitability. Tesla’s mission is the correct one, transitioning us all to a sustainable energy future, keeping the planet below the 2ºC tipping point that would cause climate havoc! Putting it simply..Tesla is just doing the right thing for the right reasons. Again, glad to finally note profits. Profits mean long term future success. Good for us all!

I bet Bob hangs out with them Coch brothers.

He is jeloius, simple is as it is! And he should know better , Ben Franklin was quoted , you can fool some of the people some of the time but not all the time , after he managed two great corporations not reading and understanding his own company technologies research and reports and just listening to big oil, knowing burning oil like cigerates was wrong wasteful and not healthy , oil meant to be a lubricant, not to be wasted , DuPont & BASF researchers always know this fact, it’s a lot more profitable for many generation of corporate profit and loss statements of his own great grand kids as well, as mine and yours. One last points I’ve been to taxes a few times for business over the years and when oils cheap let the Middle East. Oil exporters sell the cheep oil , and save sweet Taxes crude for the US, do with that Taxes will do well with the windy west taxes and solar farms and still sell there oil on top of it!

My apologies to Texas for the misspelling , it’s really a blessed state for all the resources and tellent in energy and now green energy!

Via Motors, put your product on Dealer Lots in all the CARB states, sell your retail inventory through your network, and get your numbers in the 10k+ annual sales category. Then you can go head to head with Tesla when they Launch A Tesla Truck! If your first year numbers alighn with The Tesla Truck first annual launch numbers, then I will be impressed! Until then, let’s keep 2020 EV/PHEV numbers in perspective.

Psst, Bob Lutz… How about paying some attention to your _own_ company for a change?

IA Motors is ~4 years late to market according to its own past announcements. Last PR from the company was over a year ago… You have the CARB/EPA certs. What gives? Why haven’t actual sales started?

as an Avid hater of all things shorthand – I believe we have defined the term to which Mr. Lutz referred, here –
Thanks to the infamous circle, ROFL for your stunning willingness to participate.

Since the site cannot support an Ignore button/feature, I look forward to a top-poster numbers scoreboard (Number of Replies -and- [endless] Words / Paragraphs). It will be informative regarding what non-stop pablum can accomplish in shaping and/or Discouraging intelligent dialogue, when one has No Life to speak of, and fills days/nights/weekends doing nothing but Tattooing a site’s articles.

Yep, those ‘concerned’ posters are Definitely the ones that are causing the dialog to auger, not the parrots, hell no.

What’s the matter, Phr≡d, martinis aren’t dry enough tonight?

And Bob close your ears when you let us recite again our joining prayer:

Our Father Elon, which art in Freemont,
hallowed be thy name;
thy EV come;
thy will be done,
on Earth as it is on Mars.
Give us this day our Model 3.
And forgive us our past gas uses,
as we forgive the oilies that trespass against us.
And lead us not into gas-guzzler temptation;
but deliver us from oil.
For EV is the kingdom,
the power, and the glory,
for ever and ever.
Amen.

Holy cow, you made me a believer, where is the tesla bible study? I’m willing to renounce my Tesla cult members only ID and join Tesla religion
LOL

“…where is the tesla bible study?”

It’s here:

https://teslamondo.com/

Nuts and his GMI cult clones ran GM into bankruptcy.

watched barclays advert 3 times in a row, then gave up, without seeing the actual Bob video. Next time if embedded video is not from YouTube – I won’t watch it. Lesson learned

Choose at least one of the options:
Bob nowadays SEEMS to be:

1: an idiot sounding like a broken record (some might still remember=
2: a liar sounding like a broken record

(based on his words)