60-kWh Nissan LEAF Price Possibly Revealed In Dealer Documents


May begin shipping early in 2019

If you like the Nissan LEAF, but were put off by its current 40-kWh battery, you may soon be in luck. A bigger, better battery option is coming if you don’t mind a bit of a price hike. The base version of the current car (no pun intended), with its EPA range rating of 151 miles boasts an MSRP of $29,990. When it debuts sometime next year, the upgraded 60-kWh version may well cost an additional $5,500, which would bring its starting price to $35,400 (excluding destination and handling charges, tax, title, license, and options).

The numbers come to us from Alex Bernstein, the senior pricing analyst at CarsDirect, who has seen Nissan’s preliminary pricing sheets. His calculations show the longer-range LEAF will more effectively take on the Chevy Bolt (starting MRSP $36,620), or more importantly, the base (and still unavailable) $35,000 Tesla Model 3.

Bernstein offers up some other interesting projections as well. The 60-kWh variant, which he claims will return 225 miles of range — a 50-percent bump, may be available early in 2019. According to the analyst, production of the bigger pack will begin in January, which would likely see the higher-spec car arriving at stores sometime in the first quarter.

Besides range, the optional 60-kWh pack may provide other benefits. Expected to feature a temperature management system (TMS) with liquid cooling, the new battery may negate a limitation the 40-kWh pack suffers from. Popularly referred to as Rapidgate, the car will throttle back charging speeds after being successively plugged into DC fast charge stations. This can increase charge times considerably, making long distance journeys inconvenient.

Speaking of faster charging, the new battery option could increase the amount of energy the car can handle from stations, allowing it to suck up electrons at a rate of 102 kW, which would seriously reduce charging times at DC fast charge stations capable of dishing out the higher flow.

Also, a pack with active temperature control may decrease the rate of capacity degradation, especially in hot climates. This means the range of the vehicle will decrease more slowly over time. Not only will this increase the confidence of owners, but it may also improve resale prices, as prospective buyers will worry less about the need to replace the pack, at considerable expense.

All we can say is, bring it on!

 Nissan LEAF

2018 Nissan LEAF
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Source: CarsDirect

Categories: Nissan

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206 Comments on "60-kWh Nissan LEAF Price Possibly Revealed In Dealer Documents"

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If this article is accurate, 50% more range, active liquid cooling, no RapidGate issues, and 100+kW fast charging for only $5500 more is a WINNER!

The only big problem is that there are not any CHAdeMO chargers that charge faster than 50 kW and there may not be for a very long time. Unless Nissan offers a CCS option, faster charging may not add much value.

Do Not Read Between The Lines

… in the USA

Test of 350kw charger were made in Norway. The Kia soul didn’t respect the CHADEMO standard and doesn’t charge at all. Since there’s no car capable to support that charge rates they just trotted back the charger. Kia need to issued a recall to fix the incompatibility.

I thought the Soul EV changed over to CCS as of the beginning of 2018? CHAdeMO is essentially dead, with only one company and the Outlander PHEV currently using it (outside Japan).

Not to my knowledge. At least not in Canada (assumed north America). China made CHAdeMO it’s only standard so it’s here for a long time.

I mean CHAdeMO v2.0

All the latest EVgo dispensers are upgradable. So, besides EA, there can be a 150 kW network relatively quickly.

Electrify America’s Chademo chargers are good to at least 67 kW, as a Kia Soul charged at that rate, recently.

Also looming for the lagging LEAF is direct competition from the Standard Battery, $35,000 Model 3.

Who wants a FWD LEAF when you can have great drive goodness in a Tesla that is sleeker, safer, rear drive, charges faster, handles far better and seats 5 more comfortably?

I agree, but your ignoring one HUGE fact. It will likely be available at the same time as the 35k Model 3, BUT you can buy it right away, if you want a 35k Model 3…get in line…a line which is roughly 2 YEARS LONG! Many people will probably lease a Leaf for 2-3 years, and then get a model 3.

And the LEAF will still qualify for the $7,500 rebate.

And the LEAF is a hatchback. Which some people may prefer over a sedan.

Can… No… “Is” the Leaf Tow Rated?

If so, it would be even more attractive!

Once you take into account the tax credit they won’t even be in the same price bracket. That is unless Congress changes the law.

The law will change. No way they keep paying out for foreign brands while cutting out Tesla and GM — 2 domestic brands….

IMO, it would be nice to offer a Leaf with a liquid cooled version of the 40kWh battery. Then, allow the same 50kW charging and then charge(no pun intended) $29,950 for it….
I am sure a lot of people would pay for a car that can go 151 miles, but for almost $6,000 less than a base Tesla Model 3.

True, not everyone “Needs” 220-300 Miles EV Range, if they hardly ever do 800+ Mile Road Trips!

Even a 220 Mile Range Model 3 could probably do Toronto to Key West, on Superchargers, today!

In the Netherlands we have fastned with plenty of ChaDeMo 175kW chargers.

Chademo is available, but it charges 50 kW on the faster chargers. CSS on the same charger is able to do 175 kW.

They just need to throw in a CCS to Chademo converter with each car purchase in the US.

Pretty sure the CCS standard doesn’t allow adapters. Period.

A lot of standards don’t really account for adapters. Yet, someone was able to use a large number of adapters strung together and connect an Apple TV box to a really old circular black&white TV…. And it worked. I am sure the people who built those adapters, the Apple TV box and the old black&white TV did not enivision that kind of a use case.

Not bad but I will wait for the base Tesla Model 3.

The Tesla is safer and is a much better looking car.

I guess to each their own. I think the new Leaf is much better looking than the Tesla M3 both inside and out. The M3 just reminds me of the styling of a Saab or older Volvo. There is just no character to it and before long you will be seeing the M3 everywhere because nearly everyone will have one if the numbers are true.

And their is a good reason why everyone will have them.

A Saab or older Volvo ? that’s my sweet spot ! i should have ordered one already

I have one (a SAAB) and it is still going strong. Nothing beats the design-functionality combination of a SAAB. Whehter you talk about the 99, 900, 9-3 or 9-5: swedish craftmanship, perfect reliability, durable and robust cars. A shame GM let it go down the drain.

I had two one was a great one a ’70. Last year they came with free-wheeling, in the U.S. Before it got outlawed.
Great engines.

I’m not impressed at all by the 3’s exterior styling. From the front, back, and side. It’s not outright bizarro like an i3, but it just doesn’t look that hot. By comparison, the Model S is an extremely sleek looking vehicle. The Model 3 looks like a S and X had a baby, and it came up one X chromosome short.

And I’m not impressed with the Bolt’s semi-weird styling but the Model 3 has sold 100,000 copies with no end in sight which you can’t say about the Bolt.

It’s sort of unfair to compare volumes since GM never intended, nor could even make, 100k Bolts in a year. I don’t really care for the Bolt’s styling either, but it’s a decent car.

I agree that the Bolt is not too attractive but when compared to the old Leaf it was a huge step up. But the new Leaf has a completely different look. The old Leaf had a platypus look to it and the new Leaf has kind of a nice mean look to it in the front. The Tesla Model S was and still is an amazing looking car inside and out. The Model X wasn’t quite up to the S but the M3 is just boring and blah!

I kind of like the dorky old Leaf look. Is it a good look? I don’t know. But at least it’s distinctive.

To each there own I guess. However, I have a model 3 and have parked next to a Leaf a few times and many times people have said “I Love your car”, while completely disregarding the Leaf. Most people don’t even know the Leaf is electric, they just assume it’s another crappy looking Nissan.

Question to Nissan: Why do all your car look either boring or ugly? Fire your designed, and hire someone from Kia or Audi.

The new Leaf design is light-years more attractive than the old one. Much as I am a Tesla fan, in a beauty contest the new Leaf beats the shark-snouted Model 3 hands down.


I’m not sure I see what you’re referring to here. It’s red and the rendering is quite unnaturally shiny, but it’s still strangely shaped. Is there a reason for the ridges on the hood? Why do the wheels look undersized? Why the black region on the rear and on the front? It seems to be channelling the Bolt, which is an odd choice considering that the Bolt is channeling the Sonic.

After all this is getting to be an expensive car. It would be okay to try to channel the GT-R. This car is not a show of class, status, aesthetics, or engineering prowess and I can’t imagine the average passer-by giving it a second look or thought.

Chevy Bolt copied the Leaf in design.

Go look at the bolt concept and now look at it.

The ridges on the hood channel air over the car to reduce wind noise.

The black in the front and rear hide / house the sensors Leaf uses for pro pilot.

Leaf is over-styled just as the Bolt is over-styled. Tesla Model 3 simple and elegant.


My Boyfriend hates the 3 design

With 3nough Will you might be able to change his way of thinking 💥

I tried

It’s an acquired taste 😎

Aesthetics are subjective, yet the new LEAF is as generic a subcompact as there is out there right now. Nissan decided to make it’s electric car fit in, and that it does…. Yet it does it so well as to be nearly invisible amongst throngs if similar-looking cars.

I like the LEAF, and one-pedal driving plus a nice hatchback make it very practical. The air-cooled pack and FWD plus it’s past reputation along with slow charging and generic looks insures poor resale value. First gen LEAFs are incredibly cheap in the used car market.

I hope the new pack is a big improvement, but it’s still a generic FWD subcompact. Not bad looking, by any means, and surely not “in your face” weird like the 1st gen. I hope they sell lots and Nissan can produce an EV crossover that is Murano-sized soon.

Looking forward to the ability for LEAF to fast charge more than once a trip also.

Yeah, light years ahead of a black hole. It’s still pretty fugly at the front, kinda lizard-like. The Kona EV looks the best of the CUV’s so fasr, but the VW ID will take the prize.

Still 1000x better-looking than a Toyota.

But Toyota outlasts them all!

They ‘all’ haven’t been around as long. We’ll have to wait a while to see. With Toyota avoiding EV’s they could soon find themselves trailing the pack.

Anecdotes are super awesome. Did your neighbor’s mother’s brother weigh in as well?

I’m not impressed with Bolt’s crummy seats and plastic interior.

Says the guy that drives a Bolt. Hahaha! You’re priceless!

The bolt is so plain it doesn’t even classify as attractive or unattractive. It merely… is.

Which honestly is most cars out there. There is alot of plain and not very exciting car designs.

Says the guy that drives a Bolt. Hahaha! You’re priceless!

Actually, it is Car and Driver that says the M3 is ugly, not the guy who drives a Bolt. Joke’s on you pal.

Not really. He was using the Car and Driver to support his opinion of “not being impressed with the M3’s styling.” And aesthetics are completely subjective, so my opinion is worthless, too. So the joke’s on both of us.

But I also guaran-hong-kong-tee that if Franz von Holzhausen had rolled out the Bolt as the Model 3 design, he woulda been sh-t canned by Elon in a New York minute.

Well I own a Bolt (and 2 Volts) and I totally agree that the cheap interior really takes away from the overall appeal of the Bolt.

It will be interesting to see how much of a downgrade the base Model 3 is from the current premium car. Ya no glass roof or wood dash, but I can’t imagine them making fundamental changes, like an old CRT for the touch screen. It would be a challenge to cut as many corners as GM did with the Bolt’s “Interior by Tupperware” design.

He should know.


I was not impressed originally. But it does look better in person, and the look has grown on me. Finally saw new Leaf in person the other day, and it is a decent looking hatchback.

Really? What are you smoking? That’s like saying McDonalds burgers are better than a burger some a steakhouse.

Well, the Big Mac is a tasty burger and 1/3rd the price than a steakhouse burger, so yeah, it is like saying that.

No accounting for taste…

I like the new LEAF. While now it has generic subcompact looks it also has premium compact pricing. If you want to fit in, and nobody knows you drive an electric car, the LEAF looks to be your car. Nobody before ever has said the M3 looks like a Volvo or SAAB, but everyone’s idea of style and perceptions of shapes are different. We all want Nissan to succeed and make more and more electric vehicles. In a side-by-side comparison as cars, the weighty advantage goes to the Tesla. Just rear drive alone makes it better in all but the coldest climates. It is larger, seats 5 more comfortably. M3 is more aerodynamic, a 6 foot person can literally sleep fully extended in back without any subwoofer lumping up the cargo area. M3 is safer and handles better. Surely the $35,000 M3 will also be quicker and faster than gen 2, 60kwh LEAF. The LEAF’s battery temperature mgmt. system also has yet to be revealed. The LEAF wins in the regen dept. with true one-pedal driving. Model 3 with only 2 driver options for regen and no one-pedal ability needs improvement. LEAF has a hatch. Everyone who has ever had… Read more »

I want all to succeed and move the Ev revolution forward

You are comparing a $60K vehicle versus a $30K vehicle. I can assure you the M3 will lose much more value than a Leaf at any point in it’s lifespan.

The problem with M3 comfort in the back seat is the seat is mounted too low to the ground. Mounting the seat low gives you more headroom but leaves your knees sticking up uncomfortably high like you are sitting on the first step of a staircase. But if they mounted the seat higher, than not enough headroom. Nothing comfortable about that.

Oh, you mean… Like the Chevy Volt!

No one really wants to ride in the back of a Volt either. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

But Model 3 is not a hatchback! Less versatile!

I wonder about all the undefined adulation about a hatch vs the Model 3! It has a cavernous space in the 3, compared to my ICE 2010 Kia Soul! It evem seems longer than the aft space of the 2005 Chevy Optra Wagon I had!

Maybe Cubic Feet is better in a hatch, but only if the “Running Feet”, or Length, is longer, do I see the Hatch as more practical! My aft space in my Soul is quite short, cutting its usability a lot!

You cannot load high objects in the truck of sedans.

A great Many “High Objects” can be laid down, or, you need a Pickup, anyway, or a Large Van!

Hatch backs have more utility when it comes to transporting goods. You may or may not care, but it’s more or less a fact.

Really hope this article’s claims prove to be true.

Maybe they can sell them in Europe or Asia….as for US with its poisonous network of dealers it will suffer the same fate as the current Leaf.
DO YOU GUYS KNOW WHAT DEALERS WANT FOR A 36MO/12K LEASE (SV with tech and weather package) IN L.A. AREA?
$25,000 !!!!!!!!!!
That’s right! They want you to pay $17.5 and brag about the fed credit being already discounted in the offer.
F’ing crooks!!! Really wanted to get one but no luck!

Just go for a Bolt instead.

I hate the design…and want the semi-autonomous system on the Leaf. With the Bolt i would be getting more range, which i don’t need, for less tech. I’m sold on the epadal, i want that in my current ev.

If the Leaf comes out with 102 kW charging capability the 150 kW Electrify America chargers may get a CHAdeMO plug. I have a bone to pick with all people that have been calling CHAdeMO and SAE J1772 DC Level 2 chargers, Level 3 chargers all these years. The 350 kW chargers a CCS plug are compliant with the new SAE J1772 DC Level 3 standard, now these people that have no regard for accuracy have even more ways to be wrong.

Alternatively, Nissan could embrace CCS in North American and we could all go to a single standard.

Do Not Read Between The Lines

* allexcludeseveryboyinJapan,China,ownersofexistingCHAdeMOequippedvehiclesandownersofTeslavehicles.


Why would they put an obsolete plug on those chargers? A more logical thing would be for Nissan to drop the Chademo. It’s strange that they haven’t done that already.

Yes.. with Hyundai/Kia going to CCS in most current and all future products, the days of Chademo are numbered in North America. There will be no incentive to upgrade existing Chads to be faster than 50 kw if the only customers who will demand it are owners of late-model Leafs.

I’m not a CHAdeMO fan but two of the largest auto groups in the world, the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Alliance and Toyota, have adopted CHAdeMO. It’s unrealistic to think the CHAdeMO standard is going to disappear any time soon. The best we can hope for right now is a quick upgrading of existing chargers.

A well balanced observation. It will be very interesting when Toyota joins the EV world.

I have already forgotten that Toyota exists.

Nissan and Mitsubishi have chademo which is normal for Japanese carmakers. Renault doesn’t. And they should use soon the CCS plug like all the other European competitors plus Kia / Hyundai.

There is a good chance the Chademos on the dual nozzle 150kW chargers will already dispense at higher power if requested by the car.

I think someone tested using a Soul EV, and got 62.5kW(the maximum allowable by CHAdeMO 1.0) from an EA charger. Now, the strange thing is, CHAdeMO v1.0 specifies 125A @ 500V, and I am sure the Kia Soul EV doesn’t have a 500V battery, so it would have to be pushing more than 125A, which is AFAIK in violation of the CHAdeMO 1.0 protocol that the Soul EV uses.

Actually, I and other EV enthusiasts were at the opening of the first Electrify America fast charger in Chicopee Massachusetts on May 2nd 2018, and the Soul EV that the one guy had got 68 kW. See article for pictures:

The dieselgate settlement VW agreed to stipulates that plug standard parity does not have to be maintained. So the current 1x CHAdeMO/everything else CCS charging setups we’ve seen will likely continue to be deployed (and EA DEFINITELY won’t retrofit CHAdeMO plugs on the CCS units).
Anyone hoping for that to happen will be sorely disappointed.

The Leaf will need to significantly undercut the Model 3 price to remain competitive, since it won’t have access to the Tesla Supercharging network, and won’t look anywhere near as cool. Given Tesla’s various add-on charges, diminishing available federal incentives, and unwillingness to deal on price, they might manage it.

The Leaf price already significantly under cuts the Model 3 price in several ways. Besides the $35,000 Model 3 not yet being available, the Leaf is still eligible for the $7,500 federal tax AND state incentives like the $2,500 Texas rebate. It’s not likely the Model 3 will ever be able to compete with the Leaf on price with the incentives factored in.

It’s not likely the LEAF will ever compete with the Tesla on DC fast charging power and availability

Keep telling yourself that.

Over 100,000 buyers of Model 3s have already told you that.

We don’t need to keep telling ourselves that. The Tesla Model 3 is already the #4 best-selling car in the U.S., and production keeps accelerating rapidly.

It’s good that Nissan is finally putting an active TMS into the Leaf, but it’s 7 years late. I’m sure that Nissan will continue to sell a lot of Leafs worldwide, but let’s not pretend that sales will ever be in the ballpark of the Tesla Model 3 or, most likely, the Model Y.

The long range Leaf is also “not yet available” and will arrive right around the time the standard range 3 is supposed to be available. 9 car buyers out of 10 will probably opt for the standard range 3 over the long range Leaf.

so if we have 500.000 buyers getting a m3 this means we have 50.000 people buying a long ranve leaf instead. that is without normal customers added to the equation

didn’t Tesla say the number waiting for the 3 was revised down to about 422,000? And with 100,000 deliveries at least, then there has to have been a reduction in reservations. Maybe 275,000 by the end of the year? Also there are a number of people who have claimed to have canceled their reservations for whatever reason, this year.

If memory serves, Musk said there were still 400k reservations in August after the news about 14k+ TM3 sales in July. So even after 40k+ TM3 sales in total, there were still 400K reservations. But that might be counting S and X reservations, how ever many of those there are…

My local dealer, in a non-CARB state, has an advertised 10,000$ discount on all new Leafs and it has been in place since at least June. That makes the base model just under 20,000.

I can’t imagine that applying to the new 60 kWh cars, but we can dream.

Not buying it!
Post the link…. i think you are confusing the old Leaf discount with the new.

I suspect, 60 kWh leaf will arrive earlier than the model 3 at $35k, with more battery. Also I believe real prices for the leaf are below MSRP in many cases by a good margin.
I agree with you, model 3 in the US is way more popular and even if leaf was better for cheaper it would still have a hard time competing with the model 3. But I don’t think Nissan is too much worried with US sales, this is clearly a car for European tastes.

At last count, Nissan still has about 75K vehicles to hit their 200K Fed Tax credit limit… I am guessing this will be about 2-3 years. If you can claim the full $7500 Fed credit with the 60KW Leaf, I think it may out compete the $35K Model 3 which will likely not even qualify for the $3750 credit when it comes out… more likely $1875. I hear the 2018 Leaf is a fantastic car, just has a defective battery.

Global annual sales of the Leaf peaked at around 60,000. The Model 3 has already surpassed that in the U.S. market alone.

I’m sure that Nissan will sell a lot of the new Leafs, but let’s not pretend that it’s going to “out-compete” the Model 3, nor the coming Model Y.

That said, it’s unfortunate that yet again the discussion has turned to one brand of BEV “versus” another brand, as if the EV revolution is a zero-sum game where one BEV can only gain sales at the expense of another. The EV revolution needs all the BEVs it can get, and that includes both the Leaf and the Model 3.

The real competition is between cars like the Model 3, the Leaf, the Bolt EV, and the Clarity PHEV vs. gasmobiles… not between one type of plug-in EV and another!

Global Leaf sales for this year have already surpassed 70,000 and are on track for 90,000 to 100,000 for the year. All with a battery that’s “too small” and has the so-called rapid gate problems. As well not having any battery thermal management system. This current generation Leaf was also reported to be selling, in Europe at least, at a rate of 3 out of 5 purchases to customers who had never owned an EV before.
There is also some talk about the larger battery leaf appearing on some Euro forums with some people saying that demand for information is bigger then when the 40 kWh was released. If that translate to sales of course is another thing entirely. A German Facebook Leaf group is reporting there will be an information release before the end of October with confirmation of on sale date and order books opening.

Doubtful that undercutting is necessary. It is not a direct Model 3 competitor. Tesla can’t cater the entire car market as their production will always be outranked by worldwide demand for the foreseeable future, but the Leaf with the 60 kWh package can feast on the market share of entry level ICE BMW and comparable vehicles, if it is as fun to drive and handle as the 40 kWh 2.0 version. I recently had the opportunity to have a short ride in a Leaf 2.0 and it was like a roller coaster in terms of acceleration, while giving a silent and vibration free pleseant driving experience, that was in my opinon superior to any ICE I have ever sat in, including premium models like E-class Mercedes. It was also a significant improvement to earlier entry level BEVs like first generation Leaf, ZOE and electric Smart that I also had experienced.

I disagree. If this thing comes out in Spring 2019, I am cancelling my Model 3 Standard Battery reservation. I’ve already thought about cancelling and getting the E-Niro, I think this will be a better car. I think alot of people will be compelled to do so.

Whoa there.
Coming from a guy with 3 Leafs, no way I can equate a Leaf to a BMW. It’s not all about straight line acceleration to 60.

With bigger battery I wouldn’t be surprised if the leaf receive a boost in performance. Currently I suppose battery max power is the limitation factory… and leaf is far from slow.

Good point. A Leaf with a larger battery pack and an active TMS will certainly be more competitive with the new crop of BEVs… and it’s about time!

And whoever gave you a thumbs-down is an idiot.

There were rumors accompanying the 60KWh battery Leaf-2.1 that it will have a 200hp motor instead the current 150hp (110KW for a few minutes before scale down).

I have both a 2018 and a 2017 Leaf and have now done around 24000 km in the new one. I wouldn’t be too generous on the driving feel. It’s better than the old model, but I do drive it at the full speed during my morning commute and find it rather sensitive, especially in bad weather. We have a diesel PHEV Volvo too, and it feels outdated compared to the Leaf despite its much higher price. I drove a brand new model S expecting to be blown away. The nicest car I’ve driven, but with a starting price three times that of the Leaf I had expected more.

How about a 20% bigger battery? 60kWh instead of the tiny 50kWh pack in the yet to be seen Tesla..

50 kWh is “tiny”?!?! Anyway, it’s 60 kWh for the Standard Range Model 3.


The article you refer says 50kWh.

From the article you linked: “…the standard offering will utilize an approximately 50 kWh pack size – down from the expected 60 kWh battery”

Might want to find a different link.

Range will be worse on the Leaf even with the bigger battery on the highway.

Unlikely the standard range Model 3 has less range than the 60 kWh Leaf on the highway. You can look at the aerodynamics and the efficiency to know that the long distance driving capability still favors the Model 3.

It still has to be seen if this 60KWh Leaf-2.1 is gross or net/usable.

The Leaf-1.0 had 24 KWh net/usable, Leaf-1.1 had 30 KWh net/usable but the Leaf-2.0 had stated for marketing purpose 40 KWh gross (37 net) ….

With both a Model S and a 2016 LEAF in my garage, I believe there’s room for both. My LEAF is a much better commuter and zipping around town car. Yes, the M3 is smaller than the MS, but the hatchback format of the LEAF is very appealing. It’s good to have choices and I believe both cars can coexist in this market. If the 2019 long-range LEAF is out there by the time my LEAF lease is up in mid 2016, I’ll strongly consider upgrading to the new LEAF.

Some of us aren’t interested in sedans. They’re worthless for my lifestyle (bikes, skis and whatnot). I also want the cheapest, most durable, most basic (+heated seats) car that can haul my junk up to the mountains. Any extra money I spend on a car is money I don’t spend on living a good life. There’s very much a place for a product like the Leaf.

Yep, no sedans! Not versatile enough to be of any use other than hauling lol which I don’t care! I want to haul stuff!

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

Bring it Nissan!

But still less than Hyundai KONA EV 64 kWh net?

Hyundai is having trouble delivering to non-compliance markets in the US. If the new LEAF can be delivered by early 2019 in all markets, I believe they’ll have an advantage.

I am afraid Nissan will have the same battery availability issues as Hyundai and the rest.

Don’t forget that Nissan has already sold its own battery manufacturing plants and now wants to purchase the 60 kWh packs from LG Chem (like the Bolt).

Unless they are built under licence at the Nissan battery plants which they still own a 25% stake.

Yup. Nissan will now be standing in line to get its ration from the EV battery supply, just like every other auto manufacturer except Tesla and BYD.

I find it appalling that Nissan chose to sell off its AESC battery making division, rather than license better battery tech from some other battery maker and upgrade their AESC factories.

They still own part of their battery manufacturing business. And if you read the Nissan news release about the sale it included information about guaranteed supply from the factory. An earlier contract stipulated Nissan was able to buy all batteries manufactured by the AESC corporation, which at that time had a capacity of 200,000 batteries per year (2011 I think). So, no Nissan wont be standing in line for their battery ration. More then likely they will be building LG chem batteries under licence in their part owned battery factories, and then on-selling some of the batteries to other car companies who are production limited by lack of batteries. Companies like Hyundai maybe.

The 40 KWh (gross) will be still from AESC, but the 60 KWh (gross or net ?) will be from LG-Chem.
As the 40 KWh Leaf-2.0 will still be offered, it makes sense to keep a stake in AESC.
But it will not solve the notorious bottleneck of LG-Chem who will build new factories to be ready approx 2020.

And even the AESC has a bottleneck, at least in Germany Leaf-2.0 has 12 month wait list.

Pushmi-Pullyu wants to tell the CEO of Renault-Nissan* what to do in EVs (* aka the biggest automotive alliance in the world with 10M+ in annual car sales and also the leader in global EV sales)?

Nice try, but I will stick with the CEO of Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi and their overall and EV strategy for 2022.

PS: They didn’t forget about battery supply, wait and see…

How about reading the facts about Nissan’s battery unit sale, PP?

25% stake remains at the alliance etc…


Per Nissan Alliance as “the leader in global EV sales”, I predict Tesla will have that crown, before the Model Y makes it to the 6th Month of Sales!

I think they did the right move. Battery business it’s going to be huge with short profit margins, competition will be fiercely.
LG, Samsung, Panasonic, CATL and a few others want to go strong – let them handle it.

That price is competitive with Bolt and M3.

“That price is competitive with Bolt and still non-existent $35k Model 3”

“That price, for the non-existent Nissan Leaf, is competitive with Bolt and still non-existent $35k Model 3, and whooeee is she a looker””

The ’18 and ’19 Bolt takes too long to DCFC. It isn’t in the running. Come back when it can actually DCFC at a decent rate. For 2019, 56 kW peak and <40 kW normal speed is a joke. They might as well drop 20 kWh off the battery and sell it for less. That might bring it inline with its role in the marketplace – metro commuter car.

To be price competitive with its ICE brethren, the Bolt should cost about 25k. Around the price of the Buick Encore which has a nicer interior.

The Model 3 SR is price competitive with its ICE brethren… the Audi A4, the BMW 330i, the Mercedes C300 and so forth. It doesn't even need a tax credit to be competitive, unlike the Bolt or the Leaf.

I need a hitch…bring it

The Leaf is not rated for towing and that probably won’t change. But you can buy a 2000 pound hitch for the Leaf and a lot of people are using thier Leafs to tow small loads. If you need to tow more than 2000 pounds you better wait until the real BEV SUVs start coming out.

Hold your electric horses here…the current 2018 model has a $3500 incentive attached to it. That may or may not apply in the future. Something to consider.

That is mostly to keep the 1.0’s moving off the lot. Otherwise people will just wait for 2.0.

They barely move even with the discount….

I expect that the 40 kwh version will reduce the price, and 60 kwh will be cheaper.

The more competition the merrier! Price will go down and we don’t have to deal with cocky salesman

Yes, and the improvements on fabrication, scale economies…. but 5500 $ I think is a huge difference for 20 kw and a thermal managment, and even more when LG bateries look to be cheaper than present 40 kwh packs.
So I think Nissan will decrease the price of the 40 kwh version to make more attractive without damaging the commercial appeal of the 60 kwh model with a high price.

For 2019, Leaf should also bring an LG 40 kWh Pack, as well as the 60! Both with their Better Thermal Management System!

If they can keep the price of a Better 40 kWh Leaf within $500 of the current Air Cooled 40 kWh Leaf, it would be a good entry point, for the next 2-3 years, or so!

This will probably bring Leaf sales back to its golden age. My crude estimation is that it will at least beat the sales of Bolt next year, assuming the bigger battery is widely available by the end of Q1/2019. It shouldn’t beat Tesla Model 3 sales, however, since there is no 300-mile range or 4WD option and because of lower availability of CHAdeMO stations compared to Tesla Supercharger stations. I still think that the devaluation of the 60KWh Leaf should be better than the old Leaf, but not better than the Tesla Model 3, mainly due to the fast charging network. Second hand buyers are less likely to afford a garage to charge their cars at home, so they would need to charge in public stations, and at current and foreseen situation is much worse to rely on CHAdeMO stations.

Global Leaf sales will easily beat Bolt EV sales, since GM has little interest in selling the Bolt EV outside U.S. CARB States. Sure, it does sell some in non-CARB States and in S. Korea, where demand is high; but GM sells far less than global demand.

Unless the new 60 kWh pack (assumed to be provided by LG) is the same dimensions and weight as the existing 40 kWh pack it’s very unlikely that range will increase by 50%

Perhaps the addition of a TMS allows them to run the 60kWh battery down to a lower state of charge compared to the 40kWh battery, without increasing degradation. This might offset the efficiency losses from a higher weight.

I can’t imagine why better thermal management would let them run the battery pack closer to exhaustion.

But better battery chemistry from LG Chem might well let them use a bigger DoD (Depth of Discharge) for the battery pack, which might give them a 50% better range for the larger pack size.

phEVfan started us off with a statement that this is a winner deal. I’m not arguing with him/her.
But these range options highlight that it does not matter what the manufacturer’s costs are to build packs ($150/KWh, $125/KWh, maybe even $100/KWh?), the consumer is paying heavily for them.
Leaf: $5500/20KWh = $275/KWh
Model 3: $9000/25KWh = $360/KWh
Now there might be something more than just additional cells and packaging but there are a lot of parts that go into the base pack that are not being duplicated to increase the size, so the markup is pretty heavy.

It’s a valid point. The savings aren’t going into your pocket.

Doesn’t the $9K for the Model 3 include the performance package with an extra motor and higher output? That takes some of the $ away from the battery in your calculation.
Granted, $275/kWh is way over their cost, but it also includes active liquid cooling which the smaller battery did not have. You’re getting more than just extra kWh.

No, the $9k is just for the larger battery. It’s the same motor, but acceleration should improve a little as the larger battery can provide more amps.

Model 3 mark up is outrageous given Tesla is supposed to have the cheapest cell & pack costs, and as you point out the extra cells are less than the initial pack as an overall % of pack cost, you would think.
Now if this pricing information is accurate, then Nissan must definitely be offsetting their EV price with ICE sales. Their 24kWh pack is now US$8,000 (or something like that) to replace, but 20kWh additional (to bring it up from 40kWh to 60kWh) plus the addition of active TMS is only going to cost $5,500? That’s pretty hard to believe. Nissan HAS to get active TMS to stay in the game, I’d be surprised if they survive if they don’t have it in their next version, but this price indicator doesn’t seem to indicate it to me. If they are subsidising EV pricing with ICE sales then that is also a problem in the long term as they transition (but in reality, with only 2 EV’s after 8yrs I don’t think they are really serious about it yet).

Also calculate thermal management costs for the 60 and upgraded charging ability. I’m no expert but I would think that would also contribute to the extra $5500.

The rumor mill (in Germany) states that the Leaf-2.1 will also have a stronger motor 200hp instead 150hp for the Leaf-2.0 (40 KWh) which needs a bigger motor controller – which will also add to the price.

Did not Nissan say originally that it would come out this fall, the 60 kWh version? Anyhow this delay is probably a good thing, in that it indicates, as I suggested in January, that it would have an active LTMS system.

Grass and Battery love Cool Weather

Nissan managed to almost match Bolt sales, despite having 40Kw battery. And now, interestingly, Nissan is launching its 60Kw vehicle, just when Chevy is losing its Tax Credit. I bet this will put pressure on Chevy to react quickly. H2 2019 would likely be the time when EVs go mainstream.

Expect GM to begin dropping the price of the Bolt EV as the tax incentive phases out. They are probably going to reveal a new BEV (or 2) in January at the Detroit Auto show.

Maybe, for AC Charging, Chevy could “Up Theirs” to 10 kW, to get an edge on the Leaf, and provide a Mobile Cord rated for 10 kW, too?!

I’d go for it, I think. But I’d like to know if Nissan has improved their gas gauging over the 12 Leaf; its ”guess-o-meter’ was terrible.

The pre 2018 Leaf “guess-o-meter” current work around, is to run your smart phone with the LeafSpyPro App displaying your remaining kWh.

EVery thing else is easy with the PlugShare App, until your reach your next charger location.

ummmm… why ON EARTH would anybody ever buy a Nissan Leaf over a Tesla Model 3 with the same range for the same price? TM3 has WAY better styling, better battery, faster DC charging, access to supercharger network, etc etc etc.,…. Am I missing something here??

Hatch back utility is one of the main reasons.

There still is no base $35k Model3 (Tesla keeps missing deadlines).

Tesla’s tax credits in the US is also disappearing well before Nissan’s.

In addition, the LEAF is sold globally from day one in 2019, the Model3 is not.

Lastly, Tesla won’t have international car factories for years to come.

not wanting to be associated with Tesla fanatics.

Cheaper parts? More extensive dealer network? Hate the single screen? Like upright seating (not sure if new Leaf is the same)?

Each prospective buyer should line up the options and decide for themselves.
A $35K Leaf may have more options than the $35K Model 3 – we’ll have to wait and check that out next year.
Also, there is the actual price you pay:
– may be a larger credit/rebate for the Leaf depending on where you live
– Nissan discounts may be higher than Tesla’s
– Nissan may offer better lease terms
or maybe not.
There would not be 2500 models of ICE vehicles in the US if peoples’ preferences were the same.

This car will be all the other Leaf’s, best to wait and see for a year or two to see how they hold up.
Currently a Leaf owner, it does its job kinda but my next one will definitely be a Hyundai IF it can be had in the US.

With a larger battery of the same cells, liquid cooling may also be less of a necessity. Both driving and charging will cause less of a heat build-up, although without altered architecture, slower passive cooling is also to be expected. Still, I’d expect the rapidgate effect to kick in much later under the same circumstances. The first stint of a roadtrip would be longer. Then, the first rapid charging session would be a lower C rate on present 50kW chargers than presently on the smaller battery version. Less heat built up, and then a longer second stint to cool down while driving (which is typically 2-4x lower power than rapid charging), etc. I can see Rapidgate roaring its head only in the third charging session when you’ve already covered 900km. Making the most of the (same?) cells and larger capacity at upcoing fast(er) chargers, liquid cooling sure is needed. 100kW rear world charging speed would be nice if the intent is to compete with Model S Short Range, although we don’t know its charge speed yet. The LR hits well over 100kW. Close to 80kW is to be expected, more could be happening. The S/X75D is surprisingly fast charging also.… Read more »

No! Liquid cooling is always necessary to protect the battery!

Remember – a large battery doesn’t heat as much above ambient. In most climates, the BMS of a Tesla rarely kicks in – except during fast charging. BMS kicks in at 105. The problem with Leafs is the battery chemistry first (IMO) which presumably is different in the 60 KWH.

There are several videos on Youtube (usually in German) showing that the Leaf is also scaling down on the very first DC fast charge when the battery is hot (48C) just from driving.
Test were at 20C ambient driving 130kph for 150km resulting in 19KW “fast” charge or another driving 120-140 kph for a 75km trip resulting in 14KW “fast” charge — both the first and only charging of the day.

The Leaf is probably optimized for driving at 100 Kph! Speeds above that add too much Drag Load!

You all are missing the point! I want at least 10KW preferrably 20KW onboard level 2 charger with 240V input! Relying on any chargers outside your home takes time and money!

I don’t think your desire is typical use case. I am in a rental house and I just use my Nissan’s charger (6 kw) for both the Leaf and the S (10kw on board). We have lived under these conditions for a year. The only frustrating thing is swapping chargers but I have never desired 10 kw charging.
Now I do have a vacation house 150 miles away and 10 kw charging there is nice when we have to run down and do something (rare until Florence). But with 100 kw available on the way, the extra kw there saves us 5 mins a trip (less time supercharging).
We have done that trip 3 times because of Florence but typically that is a every other year situation.


My first EV was an ‘82 BMW conversion which had a range of just under 10 miles using flooded golf cart batteries. It was my “daily driver” which I used for a 9 mile commute and just over 7 years. Needless to say, I was estatic when I drove home our 107 mile range 2011 Leaf which I drove daily for 3 years and a 60 mile roundtrip commute. I still have this vehicle, but the range is down to 50 miles (at best), and the last dealer quote to replace the pack (which would NOT include active cooling, or the so-called improved “lizard” version) was just under $9K! My longterm goal in purchasing this vehicle was to simply upgrade the battery as needed, but the outrages price gouging Nissan is inflicting on its early adoptors has left a very serious bad taste in this owners mouth…Caveat Emptor future Leaf buyers!!

Buy a 2014-15 salvaged Leaf for the battery, and sell the rest of the stuff you won’t need, you should be able get a battery with around 10% loss of capacity, for around $3k after your done. Why pay another $5 or 6k, for only 2 or 3 kWh of extra range on a new battery?

With sales doubling this year worldwide they ought to be sharpening the deal on the base model 27k and going up to 33k on the new one.

This would guaranteed a doubling of sales next year.

Most anticipated development.
With many 200 mile + EVs coming to market, Nissan has to launch a similar EV.
60 KWh makes perfect sense. An extra $5,500 means $270 / KWh which is higher, but ok considering the fact that Bolt is priced $7,500 more. So Leaf could compete with Bolt. I expect only 220 miles for Leaf since heavier battery could reduce the range.

Nissan should also work for a 80 KWh version in 2020 and Taxis will go for it. Even those who live in Condos/Apartments can buy it and charge it once/twice a week in a fast charger.

In 2021, Nissan should launch an AWD version as many cars are getting it to compete with Crossovers.

So Nissan is charging $5,500 for 20kWh. Tesla is charging $9,000 for 20kWh. Thought Tesla was supposed to have cheaper batteries than everyone else?

It’s well known that they are milking the fans with the LR option.

It helps pay for the Gigafactory expansion!

I didn’t say it was a bad move….

From 50 kWh to 80 kWh seems to me to be 30 kWh! Long Range Model 3 @ 80 kWh, Standard Range @ 50 kWh.

So, Nissan Leaf is at $275/kWh; Model 3 is at $300/kWh. A bit extra, since they are still trying to add equipment rapidly, but not too outrageous, since it adds 90 Miles, to the 220 Base Range Planned Spec! It also improves Supercharging Speeds, by 20%!

Most references state that Model 3 LR battery is 75KWh.
So $360/kWh vs Nissan Leaf at $275/kWh;

I have to admit I’m not too worried about the larger battery. I knew the 60 kWh battery was coming out soon and I still went with the 40 kWh Leaf. It’s not that I didn’t want the extra range, it’s just that I knew I would have to pay a lot more for the larger battery.

The 2018 Leaf had two things that I really wanted, it had the range to make it across the maximum distance of 120 miles between Electrify America stations and it had Adaptive Cruise Control. Rapidgate didn’t break until after I took possession on my Leaf but I’m not certain I would have made any other choice if I had broke beforehand. My 2018 Leaf currently meets my needs and I’m reluctant to spend any additional money for upgrades right now.

But, I have three years left on my lease and I’m sure there will be a lot new options by the time the lease expires. Maybe I will find another deal that I just can’t pass up. If not then I guess I will just keep enjoying my 2018 Leaf.

That being said, I feel that Nissan did not adequately inform me on the performance of the battery. I expected to be able to charge at 45 kW on my trips between Texas and Colorado and often drive straight through. After the first couple of chargers I’m going to be charging at 11 kW with a hot battery unless it’s literally freezing outside, that could add up to as much as sixteen hours extra travel time per trip.

There are a lot of people very upset with the 2018 battery charging performance and Nissan needs to provide reparations. I’m going to go down to my local Nissan dealer and tell them I am unhappy with the performance of the 2018 battery and see if I can get a deal with the 60 kW version. I hate the idea of spending the extra money but it might be worth if I gain some peace of mind and a few less hours of charging.

So the Nissan 2018 Leaf #rapidgate , is enough of a slow throttle DC FC motivator, to go for the switch to a 2019 Leaf with LG Chem 60 kWh LTMS? Consider just dumping Nissan at the end of your 3 year lease, or just go on Lease Trader .Com, and offer up your Leaf with decent takeover terms.

Just wait for the Tesla Model Y, like the rest of us 24 kWh/30kWh 2012-17 Leaf drivers. I will wait no matter what. I’m done with Nissan and their lofty replacement battery costs. FFS, $8k+ for a new 24 kWh Lizzard Pack? What is Nissan thinking, with their new battery pricing?

I’m not touching a Tesla no matter what. Anything is better than a Tesla. You think the Leaf replacement battery is expensive, I’m sure a Tesla battery replacement would be a lot more expensive, after all you have to pay for the Tesla name on it.

Pretty much proves all those “experts” who say you can’t make money off a 200 mile car at $35k are totally full of the proverbial, Nissan are almost certainly expecting to make a profit from this.

I think a big factor in whether this will be actually competitive with the Bolt will be whether Nissan adds more standard features to the various trim levels. Like if the 60 kWh S costs $35,400, will it also come with a DCFC port and a heat pump, or will you have to pay $2-3K in additional packages to get these things? If not, then a 60 kWh S that you can actually take on trips will cost at least $37,000, which means you might as well upgrade to the SV.

Model 3 killer..

Also most probably profitable.

Joke of the day!

Also a worthy candidate for joke of the WEAK!

Misdirected sentiment.
Should be referring to which ICE vehicles it will kill the sales of.

I’m not impressed. The car is too small for my needs and the interior is dark and dull. I’d rather wait for the Kia EV Niro with 250 MPC and coming in at about the same price.

Go drive one for a bit…