40-Stall Tesla Superchargers Planned For Norway, California

4 months ago by Mark Kane 38

Tesla Supercharger Rendering

More and more evidence indicates that Tesla is now aiming to install a new kind of Supercharging stations – Supercharger Supersites – to provide for upcoming higher-volume EV sales.

Tesla EVs at a Supercharger station

Those new stations will be much larger than previous ones – with 40 stalls, doubling the size of the largest available today.

One of the first sites to be built in Rygge, Norway according to Norwegian media.

The second one, already pulled into the supercharge.info list, is planned in Kettleman City, CA.

Beside 40 charging spots there will also be a solar canopy and lounge.

source: NRK, Electrek/Electreksupercharge.info

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38 responses to "40-Stall Tesla Superchargers Planned For Norway, California"

  1. Nick says:

    Wow, it looks like the Model 3 might end up increasing supercharger availability. Tesla’s on a building spree.

    1. Terawatt says:

      It’ll increase the number of chargers. Whether availability gets better or worse, at the times that matter, remains to be seen.

      I went from my city Kristiansand to Oslo last weekend. Although the trip is perfectly possible in my LEAF, it’s a lot easier to take a bus, so that’s what I did. The bus takes a break at Telemarksporten about halfway, and there’s a Tesla SC site there. Both ways (to and from Oslo) every stall was occupied.

      Of course two is a tiny sample size. But it’s very unlikely I would have observed this unless there are frequently no available chargers. Clearly more stalls would be useful already, and just continuing selling the Model S and X provides a strong case for expansion. It’s not economical to add one stall here and there over and over again, it just generates overhead and administrative cost. Doubling seems very reasonable, even without Model 3.

      It’ll be quite interesting to see how charging stations will cope with the summers in the 2020s. If cars appear soon that can take the 150-350 kW power that’s starting to come online, maybe it’ll be just fine. But if the cars sold in the next few years are still capable of just 40-50 kW, this will be a problem in Norway, where BEV share is very high.

  2. HVACman says:

    These types of stations will be what the EV infrastructure will have to evolve to in high-traffic areas going forward. But don’t expect these stations to be where most of the existing SC stations are. A 40-slot SC station would require a very significant industrial-strength electrical service.

    Allocating 100 kW per slot, that is 4 MW! This would not be a 480 volt service. It would be at the utility’s 12 kV distribution voltage and may require dual distribution feeds from two directions, as that is a lot of amps even at 12 kV. These SC sites would probably have to be located in industrial locations where the utilities have robust medium-voltage distribution and close to their HV 100 kV/12 kV substations

    1. georgeS says:

      HVACman,
      whoa 12Kv. That’s 12,000 Volts?

      Seems like Tesla will have to install power packs in addition to reduce demand charges but that will go well with the solar.

      The other thing I don’t see is the retail outlet nearby. Not that there wouldn’t be one but it seems like Tesla’s normal mode of operation is to use an area of an existing retailers parking lot.

      Seems like these new super centers will require Tesla to purchase a fairly large chunk of land for a dedicated super center????

      Food for thought but sounds good to me!

      1. ffbj says:

        Well eventually they will lots of land coming available in a variety of choice locations. Of course all sites will require clean-up.
        I am of course referring to the coming demise of gas stations.

    2. Scramjett says:

      Interesting take. I wonder if Tesla is using the solar canopy plus some battery storage system to offset the grid load? Maybe they can size the electrical load lower for that reason.

      There is a wrinkle in that assessment of a need for utility scale hookups in industrial locations: I frequent Kettleman City quite often and there is NOTHING industrial about that location. This is a pretty rural location. The nearest high kV line that I can think of is about 20 or 30 miles north near Coalinga.

      1. Ocean Railroader says:

        The power company might add a row of cross arms to the poles leading up to the site to give Tesla it’s own circuit.

        The power company could also build a 69,000 volt line from their 69,000 volt sub transmission line system.

        The power companies can also use their 115,000 volt transmission line system.
        I really like power lines so this is going to be interesting.

        1. Bill Howland says:

          Ocean Railroader:

          Around here, such moderate power levels as this 40-stall SC would be handled at the typical 7620Y/13200 distribution voltage – unless of course Tesla wanted to pay for special construction to get a future price break, which they typically do not.

          Seeing as Tesla rarely takes delivery at any medium voltage (MV) level, I’d expect a 40 stall SC to look exactly like the 8 stall ones as I mentioned in my above comment to HVAC.

      2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        “I wonder if Tesla is using the solar canopy plus some battery storage system to offset the grid load? Maybe they can size the electrical load lower for that reason.”

        My napkin math indicates that the Supercharger solar canopies will provide at most about 2% of the power necessary for charging, per stall.

        Of course, if the station sits unoccupied for extended periods of time, that could accumulate in a battery pack. But then, if the station is sitting unoccupied for long periods of time, why would they need 40 stalls?

        Furthermore, most of the existing Supercharger stations have no solar canopies. Will the percentage be higher at new ones? Frankly, I doubt it.

        It seems to me the Supercharger solar canopies have a lot more to do with Tesla wanting to project a “green” image than they do with actually supplying electricity.

        1. Terawatt says:

          What do you think the typical utilisation of a gas pump is? Very likely very low, right?

          Just to make a guess, let’s assume the average pump is actually pumping fuel for one full hour per day. That’s 4% utilisation. So why on Earth would a station ever need six?

          Obviously because people don’t refuel at randomly distributed times (or locations).

          The effects of this is much bigger for EVs because of the relatively long charging time and the shorter range between refills, but most of all because users can and do charge at home or at work – most of the time. In other words, the difference between what’s needed along major travel routes in the summer vacation, or for Easter or Christmas, and what’s needed on average throughout the year, is HUGE for EVs.

          That’s a challenge, because capacity obviously needs to be scaled for near-worst-case scenarios. Otherwise neatly all the users will experience problems nearly every major vacation! But it leaves us with crazy overcapacity the rest of the time.

          This is actually the most important reason higher charging rates are important, far beyond 150 kW. Whether you charge for ten or twenty minutes a few times a year doesn’t really matter. But whether you need 60 stalls or 15 to handle peak load makes a huge difference to infrastructure cost – and thus ultimately prices.

          The charger side is relatively easy, but the battery side still breeds much improvement. Hopefully it’s coming soon.

          1. ModernMarvelFan says:

            “Just to make a guess, let’s assume the average pump is actually pumping fuel for one full hour per day.”

            Obviously someone who doesn’t live in the US where there are Costco Gas stations… =)

            I would say it is far more than.

          2. Bill Howland says:

            What a dopey comment:

            People don’t build extra crap for no purpose.

            If a gas station has 16 dispensers its because they need them, not because they look pretty.

            Similarly, if a location has 40 SC stalls its because they expect that much Model 3 traffic, not because they only NEED 2 stalls and the other 38 look pretty.

    3. LarryM says:

      Current sites use a shared setup of SC pairs. So technically it would be 2 MW. Still a lot though.

    4. Bill Howland says:

      Hvacman what are you getting so nervous about?

      An 8 – stall (4 bay) SC typically has an 800 amp 277Y/480 volt service (although I’d imagine they’d have 240Y/416 for Norway).

      Just a simple scale-up would be a simple 4000 amp one. I say simple since the equipment is very standardized in this size range, and btw, there are only 20 charger bays not 40 as you incorrectly stated.

  3. Kdawg says:

    Would be a nice location for a restaurant. You would have a constant influx of Tesla customers + passengers.

    1. Scramjett says:

      Agreed. Kettleman City has mostly a bunch of fast food places so a nice restaurant (even a Denny’s) would probably do well once it gets built.

    2. mevp says:

      They’ll probably turn this into a real estate play. Buy enough land for 40+ stall and, then do a ground lease for a couple retail sites.

      Cheap land plus 40 carloads of people should make for nice rents for a coffee shop plus a fast food joint.

      They should forget the lounge, unless it doubles as a mini sales office. Just rely on their tenants for the non-refueling infrastructure.

      1. Scramjett says:

        Why couldn’t they do both? A lot of gas stations these days have merged with a restaurant so you have a convenience store on one side and a restaurant on the other. Tesla could have one side as a lounge while the other side is a restaurant.

        I’d skip the fast food joint though. Fast food doesn’t make sense when you’re waiting 45 minutes for a car to charge up.

        1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

          Typical charge time is closer to 30 minutes. That’s about right to eat lunch, or dinner if you’re in a hurry. A fast food restaurant would certainly work better for a 30 minute window than a sit-down restaurant where you have to wait for the wait staff to come and take your order.

          A fast food restaurant could also attract more business to the location by having a drive-thru.

  4. Tom says:

    Bring it on!

  5. Scramjett says:

    Kettleman City is a good choice, but I would strongly suggest Tesla build such a Supersite in Santa Nella, CA. Right now, there is a huge gap in the network on I5 between Sacramento and Harris Ranch that would require most Tesla owners/drivers to basically hypermile in order to make it there. I know about the Superchargers near Manteca, but that’s a good deal of back tracking.

    Until that gap is closed, I’ll stick with my trusty Volt, thank you very much. 🙂

    1. Rob Stark says:

      No route from or to Sacramento needs a Tesla Supersite.

      And you can keep your Volt.

  6. Why Not? says:

    For large sites like this Tesla should develop a convenience store model, like WaWa, Sheets, or Raceway here on the east coast. They make make most of their profits on selling goods, and freshly made sandwiches and drinks. People will have plenty of time to shop and eat while waiting for their car to charge. Could add an additional source of income for Tesla.

    1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      I can certainly see Tesla renting out space in the “lounge” to some sort of combo convenience store/restaurant, but I rather doubt Tesla wants to get into the business of operating a grocery/food service franchise. That’s about as far outside Tesla’s core business as Apple selling cars.

  7. Scramjett says:

    Tesla should really include a play area for kids also. Anyone kids knows that asking them to wait while the car is charging is probably unrealistic. A play area would keep them entertained while the car is charging.

    1. Scramjett says:

      *Anyone with kids…

  8. Ocean Railroader says:

    Maybe the chargers will bring back the road side attraction like a small museum or landmark for people to go look at while they charge.

    1. Kdawg says:

      “Come see, the World’s Largest Supercharging Station”. 🙂

  9. Kevin Cowgill says:

    Another reason for Tesla to open up access to the laggards Chevy, Ford and Nissan at their more remote and less used supercharger sites.
    Let people like me help finance massive fast-charge expansion.

  10. Four Electrics says:

    When you see 40 cars charging in one place, it will really bring home how unsustainable even 150 kW quick charging is for the masses. It will be evocative of the OPEC gas crisis of 1973. Lots of cars queuing to fuel up in a land of scarcity. Memorial Day and Labor Day weekends will soon fill Tesla owners with dread as infrastructure is overwhelmed by hordes of electric vacationers. Grid reliability and land availability will prevent sufficient capacity in many locations.

    Gas cars fuel at the equivalent of 1.5 megawatts. Until we get close, or hydrogen stations scale out further, mass adoption of ZEVs is going to be very painful.

    1. Bill Howland says:

      Here 4 Electrics we agree to disagree….

      I don’t think large amounts of cars will discourage people from buying PHEV’s and BEV’s. Most people buying PHEV’s such as VOLTS just use the existing receptacle in the Garage or Carport, and have purchase no extra infrastructure at all.

      I haven’t seen any info on what the typical BOLT ev owner has done, but Chevrolet seems Agnostic on the issue: they mention 3 different ways to charge the car (L1, L2, or FAST) and don’t push the owner to any particular way, although they do suggest very high mileage drivers to at least consider a Level 2 solution.

      This Tesla installation of fast chargers uses less electricity than you think.

      First off, the car only charges at a 120 kw rate for a few minutes, and then only off-peak. When the station is more than half busy, then the cars are forced down to a 60-65 kw rate mainly because they are nearing the capacity of the charging bay which must now feed 2 hungry cars.

  11. Tyl Young says:

    This is as it should be. A serious multi supercharger station that is designed from the get-go to have 40 charging pedestals, solar and a lounge. Solar with enough capacity to charge the cars coming through and battery storage to shift/store energy as needed. Way to go Tesla

  12. Charles says:

    Interestingly enough I sent details of both the Kettleman City, and the Rygge sites through to supercharge.info at the same time. I’m not sure why Blueshift hasn’t put the Rygge one up, though.

    1. Mike I. says:

      Tesla has completed the purchase of the Kettleman City site. The site in Norway is still in negotiations because there is a condition that any business in that development be “airport related”. That may or may not turn out to be a showstopper.

  13. Butch says:

    Ok..let’s find out why this wouldn’t work…?

    Tesla is the guru of energy storage…every Powerwall and power pack in every one of their cars is a storage unit…

    It seems obvious that not every charger at every site is always being used to charge a vehicle at every hour of the day?

    It is expensive to install the actual charging station at each site.

    SO…the question here is…”why not install several storage units at these charging sites to increase the number of charging UNITS/STATIONS?

    Cheaper than grid connected units.
    Provide addition charging capabilities at lower cost.
    Storage units charge while grid connection units are idle.
    Storage units could “load” while power costs are lower.
    Storage units should take less space at storage sites.
    Etc.

    MY QUESTIONS;

    Is it possible to charge one battery with another?

    Would the power transfer from one battery to another be faster or slower than charging a battery from the grid?

    1. Bill Howland says:

      The obvious answer Butch is that Tesla paying the electric bill is easier for Tesla than running the thing off their battery systems, since if it cost less money Tesla would certainly use their own systems.

      Now, if a partnership can be made with a local gov’t, then Tesla can get the local gov’t to give the property tax-free status, purchase plenty of solar panels or windmills to make the thing look as green as possible, and provide other accoutrements to spiffy up the installation.

  14. Butch says:

    THE FUTURE

    You have a flashlight…the bulb goes dim…you unscrew that back cover…dump out the used batteries…slip in 2-3-4 new [fully charged] D cells…screw on the back cover…off you go into the night.

    You have a EV…your battery shows low power…you back your EV into a stall at a power station…a robot opens the storage compartment in your EV that houses the battery…pull out the used battery and slips in a fully charged battery…close the cover…drive away…

    The charging station is recharging the replaced batteries in the back room…

    The customer’s wait time is minimal…

    The operation is automated…

    The robot checks the power remaining in the existing EV battery…subtracts this from a fully charged battery…cost is determined…slide credit card…drive away…

    There are many ways to view this EV revolution but the key to its success lies in energy storage.

    Quick/fast charging stations is one way…quick/fast battery swapping is another.

  15. Bill Howland says:

    I assume the artist’s conception is for the Norway 40 Stall location.

    It sure looks fun, what with a conditioned building and lounge chairs to wait while your vehicle charges. Nicely landscaped also.

    In this country, I was under the impression that most SC’s were put on a corner of someone ELSE’s property, who also paid ALL the property taxes and landscaping fees, just to have the added customer traffic, of which I would seldom expect that would be a fair trade off for the business – unless of course a local gov’t can be convinced to also chip in.

    Tesla is already carrying the freight for the vehicle charging, and has politely warned users to charge at home when not taking a trip – to many users who expect to get their money’s worth by charging at the SC anyway – especially if in an area with confiscatory rates.

    But who is paying to condition the Lounge area, as well as the area lighting and its upkeep? Again, a friendly local gov’t is probably a friend indeed! (At least as Tesla owners are concerned).

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