370-Mile Audi Q8 E-Tron Gets Production Green Light

JAN 30 2014 BY ERIC LOVEDAY 39

Okay, so it’s not quite the 435 miles of range that we reported a few days ago, but 370 miles (NEDC) would still make the Audi Q8 E-Tron the EV range champ.

Audi Allroad Live in Detroit

Audi Allroad Live in Detroit

The Tesla Model S 85 kWh has an NEDC range of 310 miles.

Autocar is reporting that the Audi Q8 E-Tron has been given the production green light.

This vehicle, expected to be priced at over $130,000 when it launches in either 2016 or 2017, will be loosely based off the Audi Allroad Shooting Brake Concept shown for the first time ever at the 2014 Detroit Auto Show.

Audi All-Road E-tron Shooting Brake

Audi All-Road E-tron Shooting Brake

If indeed Autocar is accurate (the UK-based magazine cites Audi insiders as its source), then the Tesla Model X will have a true competitor, though we should note that the Model X will beat the Q8 E-tron to market by 2 to 3 years and will certainly be less expensive than the Q8 E-Tron’s estimated $130,000.

But wait…there’s more.

The Q8 E-Tron will make use of the same battery chemistry and electric hardware that will be found in the confirmed-for-production Audi R8 E-Tron.

Both vehicles will feature some sort of undisclosed next-generation battery technology.  It’s believed that the battery capacity of the Q8 E-Tron will be approximately 80 kWh.

There’s no mention of battery capacity for the R8 E-Tron, though we suspect it won’t be fitted with 80 kWh.  Perhaps something more along the lines of 50 to 60 kWh will give the R8 E-Tron its claimed range of 248 miles with the use of Audi’s “different type of battery” technology.

When the R8 E-Tron was first unveiled, it featured a 48.6 kWh battery and had only 134 miles of range.  Audi cancelled the R8 E-Tron due to what it felt was a range that was too limiting.  Audi re-ignited the R8 E-Tron’s development when it discovered a “different type of battery” tech that could give the R8 E-Tron a realistic 248 miles (assume NEDC) of range.

Audi R8 E-Tron

Audi R8 E-Tron

Source: Ecomento

Categories: Audi

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39 Comments on "370-Mile Audi Q8 E-Tron Gets Production Green Light"

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Unfortunately by the time this gets to market, it won’t be the range leader anymore. Tesla has already said they are going to up their battery pack sizes for Model S/X once they get the Gen III batteries.

Musk has talked about the “500 mile” battery several times. I take this as ideal miles, with something like 400 – 450 EPA miles.

Anyway, I would be happy to see Audi actually build something, instead of cycling the programs through the traffic signal colors. If I was on their E-tron development team, I would have quit and gone to Tesla (or BMW) by now.

+1

I hope Elon Musk does offer a 120 or a 140 kilowatt Tesla battery to keep on top of this. A larger battery in the 100 range would also help knock out 300 mile range hydrogen cars so it would be in Tesla’s power to do all they can to keep wining the EV range wars which will soon be coming to our great land.

But what this really shows is that the big car players are starting to not let Tesla go unchallenged now.

Battery capacity (energy) is measured in kilowatt-hours, not kilowatts (power). EV enthusiasts need to keep this straight or the general public will continue to find the transition to EVs confusing.

It will not have that range. If they have said that then Audi is lying. As usual. S85 has 400kg battery of the highest density available, it rolls well and has decent aerodynamics and can academically do 500km. So this oversized clown car in the picture with piss poor aero will do 600km? Of course not. You might as well say you’ll make an electric hummer with 1000km range. I’ll be surprised if it does half. My guess is that this is desperate FUD, gambling that battery tech will suddenly take a quantum leap to save their stupid plan. I have said it many times, electric drive is not compatible with a stupid car. An SUV is a stupid car. You might say that Tesla is pulling it off but actually they aren’t. They aren’t profitable so they are riding the stock market anticipation. They got a billion dollar cash infusion recently that they never have to pay back. Quite a deal 🙂 And here’s the beauty of it. Tesla is doing conventionally stupid luxury vehicles with the excessive battery size that such stupidity requires. As a result they are not a profitable business but they survive anyway. The old… Read more »

Tesla’s billion dollar cash infusion went to pay two things; the US Federal Governments Department of Energy $465M loan and the second assembly( probably for Model X) line at the Freemont Factory. It is not paying for ongoing operations or to subsidize ongoing loses.

Tesla makes cars most people actually want to buy not city cars only a tiny fraction of the buying public is willing to buy.

You claimed that the Germans were never going to make electric cars.
Well, the E-Up is on sale right now, and the i3, i8 and E-Golf are either in production or on the verge of it.

So if you don’t know, it is clear to anyone else that your predictions are not worth much, or indeed anything at all.

Tesla already has gross margins in par with Porsche, i.e. the leader in industry. Therefore it is just nutty to say that they are not profitable. Tesla’s cash flow turned positive already 14 months ago.

Apparently you do not understand that in capitalism growing company needs all their revenue on investments on growth. Therefore Tesla does not issue dividends to the stock holders. And as long as Elon Musk is the dominant stock holder, it is very unlikely that Tesla will issue dividends to the share holders, but Tesla keeps investing on productivity. I.e. Tesla will do zero results ad infinitum.

Aargh!
Gross margins are not the same as profitability.

Given the price tag, and the fact I think it is ugly, I guess it will never be a consideration for me regardless of the range.

They’d better reshape that body or there’s not way it’s getting that kind of range with 80 kWh.

Yes, I don’t understand how they can get a significantly bigger range, with 5kWh less battery.

Tesla leaves a lot of range on the table due to tyre choice, probably 30% NEDC range. can’t do 0-100km in 4 secs with low drag tryes.

Low drag tyres are hardly what you want in a 4WD softroader.

I’d be very surprised if Audi are not simply planning on stuffing enough batteries in to make up for the types and the bulk.

The group specialised in lightweighting though, so they might manage some further weight reductions in the body, but I doubt that they will be very significant.

ydnas7, I have no idea what you are talking about. The Model S 85 Performance can get 0-60 mph in the low 4 seconds with either the Michelin PS2’s or the MXV4’s. You’re not going to get a much lower LRR tire than the MXV4, and certainly not 30%.

NEDC is a terribly false test anyways.

Yawn, more “me too” press releases. Hey, look at me, I’m going to build an EV !!!

I guess I’ll believe this one when I see it. By the way, where does one recharge an 80kWh battery in the USA without a Tesla Supercharger @ 120-150kW ?

The answer is a little sad… the non-existent Frankenplugs. And the teeny tiny number (less than 10 Frankenplugs in the entire USA) that will get installed are currently 50kW. Nobody is going to build a nationwide network of them like Tesla is doing.

Every one of these “Press Release Cars(TM)” are aiming at where Tesla is TODAY and coming up short. Tesla is so far ahead of these guys, it’s mind boggling.

You are spot on, and I and so very glad that they (major world automakers) are now chasing the world champ Tesla. Toyota you better get your head in gear (e-motor w/gear reduction) and out of the FCEV sand .

Toyota are also vigorously developing advanced batteries.

However this battery assuming it is the same energy density as the Tesla S, which I have provided reasons to think it is elsewhere in the thread, runs at around 150Wh/kg.

A fuel cell system including the CF tank and all the gubbins which are not in common with battery cars, like an electric engine, runs at over 1,500Wh/kg.

They are different animals, and the notion that they are in opposition to each other is quite false.

Both will have roles in transport, with the proportions depending on how much progress each makes and at what cost, which is not something any of us can possibly know.

Batteries and fuel cells enhance each other, they and not enemies.

You do realize that Toyota was one of the biggest shareholders of TSLA, right? Guess who dropped using the Tesla battery platform, ding ding ding. You’re talking up Tesla like it’s the end all be all of EV tech. In reality, Toyota and VW Group have been investing in R&D of EV and HFCV for nearly 2.5 decades now, nearly twice the lifespan of Tesla the company. Tesla has created a very pretty EV with a massive battery that weighs a crap load (the Tesla S weighs about as much as a 4wd 4Runner with V8). Tesla’s bread and butter will be the super charging network if they can ramp up buildouts of locations by an epic factor of greatness to try and compete with the likes of other large companies drooling at the opportunity to do the same (although with Billions in their bank accounts to fund it in cash). The kicker is which plug-in dongle will be the standard to use. Think of it as USB vs Firewire.

Your point is valid (Tesla is way ahead of everyone else), but I think you generally need to have a little bit more of a long-term vision. Sure, everybody who frequents this site wants a 100% market share for plug-ins today, but it’s realistically going to take decades. Maybe there will only be a handful of 50kW CCS stations this year, but what about at the end of next year? Unlike hydrogen vehicles, EVs and EV infrastructure can grow in capability gradually, there is no chicken-and-egg problem. You could argue that there are no non-Tesla 120kW DCFC stations because there are no 50kWh+ non-Tesla cars. But there’s no doubt that an automaker would be able to sell a 50kWh+ vehicle at the right price, and even if that means 50 minutes or more for an 80% charge on the existing network of 50kW DCFCs, you can be certain that the DCFC manufacturers will be trying to one-up each other and be the first to offer 100kW or more. I agree it’s too bad that nobody has nearly as much commitment as Tesla, but it’s not at all surprising, and at least Tesla is having an impact on the entire industry.

There is no way that an 80kwh battery will move this big, heavy, unaerodynamic box for 370 miles.

If it does as well as the Tesla S on a miles per kwh basis, which seems inconceivable, then the battery would need to be 370/310*85kwh.

That is 101kwh

The same battery pack as the Audi R8 E-tron would be around 88kwh for the claimed range.

Whoever at Autocar wrote this seems confused about battery technology, which can increase the kwh per kilogram, but does not increase efficiency.
Only lighter weight, better aerodynamics or more efficient systems do that.

also in:
http://ecomento.com/2014/01/30/electric-audi-q8-e-tron-gets-production-green-light-with-370-mile-range/

They say that:
‘Even so, a kerb weight well in excess of 2,000kg is likely, particularly in light of the Q8 e-tron’s heavy quattro all-wheel drive system.’

Isn’t exactly clear that the 4WD on an electric car is nothing at all like that on a conventional car.
Instead of drive shafts front to back and so on there are two motors, which drive the axles separately, so how much heavier it is than an equally powerful 2WD system is open to question.

if you divide the 435 miles of range as originally reported by the new range of 370 miles, you get 117%

As I worked out about, if it does the same per kwh as the Tesla S, you need around 100kwh of battery.

So it sounds to me as though they were thinking of a 120kwh pack at first, and have now decided that 100kwh is more realistic

The weight of the extra 20kwh accounts for the difference between 117% of range and 120% in batteries.

If this car company has some type of battery break though that is at least 30% better then existing Tech on the market that at least could drop 300 to 400 pounds off of this beast. In that the Tesla model S weights in at 4600 pounds right now. Dropping that weight would improve range. But if they had a 50% battery break though they could drop 600 to 800 pounds off of this beast which could really help on range not having to lug around almost 40% of a ton of car.

The previous generation of VW/Audi batteries as in the E-Up are in the 80Wh/kg range at the pack level just like the Nissan etc.

The only ones ahead of that are Tesla using 18650 batteries in the Tesla S, which come in at around 150wh/kg.

To increase the Audi E-tron R8’s range as claimed with the same weight batteries as before all Audi have to do is to up the energy density to around the same as the Tesla S already gets, but in a prismatic format which tends to be a generation behind the 18650.

So there is no reason to think that Audi have batteries which are superior in energy density to that currently in the Tesla S, as that fits their claims perfectly.

DaveMart, Tesla’s batteries are higher than 150 wh/kg. They are loosely based on Panasonic’s NCR18650A which are 250 Wh/kg.

Volkswagen is researching NMC, which is likely to end up at a significant disadvantage to Tesla/Panasonic’s NCA in terms of specific energy.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Weight is important for handling, acceleration/deceleration and city efficiency, not so much for highway efficiency where CdA plays a much larger role.

So it’s important, but losing weight won’t improve highway efficiency all that much; getting to a 0.19 Cd would probably do more than dropping 600lbs.

*MOD EDIT – Your comment has been removed due to being off topic and/or sexist

Thanks.
Good and prompt modding.

I’ve seen a lot of Audi press releases. I haven’t seen any actual “first drive reports” for any in production, for sale to the general public Audi product. Did I miss it in the clutter?

I’m not sure if you mean test drives of the Q8 or of Audi electric/PHEV vehicles in general.
The Q8 is far too early in its production cycle for test drives.

The first that is definitely scheduled for production from Audi is the A3 E-Tron PHEV, with VW taking the lead in BEVs with the E-Golf and E-Up.

There have been loads of test drives of the A3 E-tron, with release scheduled for autumn in Europe, from memory, but definitely for Spring 2015 for the US

A recent test drive here:
http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/1312-2015-audi-a3-sportback-etron/

“Pffft” or “Paggh” are something I would’ve said or will say if this get’s axed. I would say there’s one good thing about this and its that whether this is a concern from Audi or parent company VW. I like the fact that it is a fully electric vehicle (which makes the fate of this car rather predictable) instead of Mitsubishi’s, Volvo’s and VIA’s PHEVs, it’s getting in the game early considering the amount of competition there are, but still, 2 years after the Model X. This will probably be just like the Q7 hybrid. Yeah, anyone remember that?

Plug-In SUVs will be the booming market in the next few years and it’s as hell as untapped. Would I say I welcome Audi to the full, global Plug-In market? Before that, let’s just ground and remind ourselves that this is Audi we’re speaking of.

Project codename: Flying pig.

What a silly car. It looks like Audi might finally put out an EV by selling a car that almost no one will buy. $130K? Sheesh.

That is untrue. If Audi puts together a compelling long range EV with price tag $130 000, it can sell in China alone every car that it can possibly manufacture in four years.

Markets are just starving from long range EVs. E.g. Tesla also costs on average about $110 000 because those folks who are buying long range EVs really do not care how much car costs. Only thing that matters is that it is the best car on markets.

yawn audi still talkin and no car? yep…. YAWN

Does anyone know if these Audi E-tron vehicles (R8/Q8) will have a range extender? Touting a hybrid as an EV annoys me a little bit, just wanted to know if anyone knew if they were a pure BEV or a range extended hybrid.

Neither of these vehicles are coming with a range extender, at least none has been announced.

The Tesla Model S has a 300 mile range with an 85kWh battery. How on Earth can this bigger car get 370 miles with 80kWh?