Starting January 2017, All New Teslas Will Only Get 400 kWh Of Annual Free Supercharging, Small Fee Beyond That


Supercharger location count expanded to 715 locations worldwide by the end of Q3 2016

Supercharger location count expanded to 715 locations worldwide by the end of Q3 2016

Just moments ago, Tesla put out a press release on its Supercharger program.

The release contains information on how many Superchargers are out there and on how those chargers have enabled Tesla owners to basically drive everywhere, but buried further down in the release is the news we all knew was coming:



“For Teslas ordered after January 1, 2017, 400 kWh of free Supercharging credits (roughly 1,000 miles) will be included annually so that all owners can continue to enjoy free Supercharging during travel. Beyond that, there will be a small fee to Supercharge which will be charged incrementally and cost less than the price of filling up a comparable gas car.”

(full press blast from Tesla can be found below)

There was really no possible way that Tesla could continue to provide free, unlimited Supercharging – and with the Model 3 on the way, the automaker needed some method to limit use of Superchargers to their original intent of providing juice for long distance travel. We think that what Tesla has come up with is fair and reasonable and it should work to unclog Supercharger congestion.

Current Tesla owners are not affected by this change. And if you put your Tesla order in prior to January 2017 (and take delivery before April 1, 2017), then you too will enjoy free, unlimited Supercharging. We think this is a rather clever method for pumping up year-end sales.

Beginning with new purchases in January, the Supercharging Network will be paid access after first 400 kWh of use

Beginning with new purchases in January, the Supercharging Network will be paid access after first 400 kWh of use

In August, it was discovered that Tesla had already implemented a “Supercharger payment” section to its MyTesla page, allowing new owners under the program to ‘top up’ credits to use the Supercharging Network via a credit card – although at the time, it was thought to just be for future Model 3 users.

Earlier from Tesla’s annual shareholder meeting in Mountain View, California in June, CEO Elon Musk had given reasoning why the Supercharging Network had to be converted to a pay system – again in relation to the upcoming Model 3:

… we wanted to make it really straightforward and easy, that’s why the Superchargers are set-up at least today – for people on board the car to travel long distances for life. Obviously, that has fundamentally a cost… The obvious thing to do is decouple that from the cost of the Model 3. So it will still be very cheap, and far cheaper than gasoline, to drive long-distance with the Model 3, but it will not be free long distance for life unless you purchase that package. I wish we could [make it free], but in order to achieve the economics, it has to be something like that.

What Tesla’s motivation is, to make electric transport as affordable as possible. That is what informs all of our actions. It’s not because we want to make things more expensive, it is because we can’t figure out how to make it less expensive. That’s all.”

In 2015, Tesla sent out “abuse” letters to those owners the company felt were using the Supercharging network excessively/not as intended by the company.

This change of policy for 2017 should eliminate the need for further letters, and will also help ease future congestion at many stations that may have otherwise been often frequented by individuals and businesses picking up multiple free ‘opportunity’ charges.

Tesla’s release in its entirety below:

An Update to Our Supercharging Program

The Tesla Team November 7, 2016

Tesla Supercharger

Tesla Supercharger

Four years ago, Tesla introduced the Supercharger Network – the world’s fastest charging solution – to enable convenient long distance travel. Today, more than 4,600 Superchargers allow over 160,000 Tesla owners to drive across the continental U.S., from the Arctic Circle to the south of Spain, and across all of the population centers in China and Japan, among many other places. Supercharging has even helped owners drive their Teslas around the world.

We’ve designed our network so that all customers have access to a seamless and convenient charging experience when they’re away from home, as our intention has always been for Supercharging to enable long distance travel. That’s why today we’re announcing a change to the economics of Supercharging – one that allows us to reinvest in the network, accelerate its growth and bring all owners, current and future, the best Supercharging experience.

Ensuring Use for Long-Distance Travel

For Teslas ordered after January 1, 2017, 400 kWh of free Supercharging credits (roughly 1,000 miles) will be included annually so that all owners can continue to enjoy free Supercharging during travel. Beyond that, there will be a small fee to Supercharge which will be charged incrementally and cost less than the price of filling up a comparable gas car. All cars will continue to come standard with the onboard hardware required for Supercharging.

We will release the details of the program later this year, and while prices may fluctuate over time and vary regionally based on the cost of electricity, our Supercharger Network will never be a profit center.

These changes will not impact current owners or any new Teslas ordered before January 1, 2017, as long as delivery is taken before April 1, 2017.

The Road Ahead

Just as you would charge your cell phone, we believe the best way to charge your car is either at home or at work, during the hours you’re not using it. For travelers, the Supercharger Network has become a powerful, unique benefit of Tesla ownership. As we approach the launch of Model 3, this update will enable us to greatly expand our Supercharger Network, providing customers with the best possible user experience and bringing sustainable transport to even more people.

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188 Comments on "Starting January 2017, All New Teslas Will Only Get 400 kWh Of Annual Free Supercharging, Small Fee Beyond That"

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Sounds reasonable. Tesla Energy may end up in a few years being the bigger part of Tesla earnings/profit. As they expand the Tesla Supercharger network I can invesion Tesla eventually providing a chipped (for automatic billing) plug adapter available to be used on non-Tesla EVs.

What I above said is not withstanding Tesla’s promise of:

“We will release the details of the program later this year, and while prices may fluctuate over time and vary regionally based on the cost of electricity, our Supercharger Network will never be a profit center…”

Is it a profit center or is it just a way they can hugely expand the network? I think it’s for expansion so they can allocate their funds to other things.

I’m just happy to see them taking multiple steps to put their business in order, from the car manufacturing arm of the company to its energy sector part and everything in-between.

I wish them an excellent Q4 ! (now with a bigger chance of matching their 2016 Q3)

I think the fees they will charge won’t be enough to make it a profit center, but they will discourage Tesla owners (or a small percentage thereof) from taking advantage of the “free” aspect of the Supercharging system.
Tragedy of the Commons rears its ugly head, yet again.

Yeah, but you gotta admit, it’s not unfair. The intent of this service was to encourage adoption of Tesla cars, not to provide free charging, nor to make money off of charging.

By rights, you should pay for your charging, either through your utility or through a charge to use the infrastructure.

You have to adapt your service to curb abuse that might damage that service. It’s either that or they won’t be able to provide the service AT ALL and that’s not a good thing either.

Free charging can’t last forever. Or do u know some ICE maker who gives free gasoline for life? LOL!

Even with fee it doesn’t mean it will make huge profits. It’s reasonable to charge a fee so the network doesn’t lose money.

He could take profit out of it because of the monopol position, but I don’t think he will do it. Musk is not trying to destroy the company already. Only a so called premium carmaker would use his monopol to cheat on the stupid customers.

Is that like 4 fill ups for a 100D ? This is stilla little confusing to Me ,.Can Some one clarify please….cheers !

What is the waiting time to get a spot at a Super Charger?

I had to wait 5 minutes. Once. We have used the SCs extensively.

I wonder how they’ll charge the fee. Automatically bill the customer’s credit card based on some vehicle identification obtained by the supercharge station?

My guess would be, that you can buy (pre-pay) credits on the Tesla website connected to your cars VIN or your Tesla account to which your cars are connected.

And directly in the car if you so prefer.

Don’t like prepay! Would prefer Tesla charge my credit card on file when their SC detects my car is getting some juice.

My two cents worth.

No, you’re thinking about it backwards.

Tesla Supercharger Payment Master Plan:

1) Car detects charging from Supercharger.
2) Car reports kWh usage to Telsa.
3) Telsa (super)charges owner’s credit card.

Shh, don’t tell anybody.

Pretty reasonable.

Yes. Current owners are still graciously supported for being early adopters and paving the way to Model 3, Y, Semi, MiniBus, etc., etc…

New owners get 1000 miles per year, and pay as you go kWh Blocks to support the evolution of their awesome SuperCharger network.

Win-Win for all. And great for Tesla’s bottom line.

I agree that this step should have been taken a while ago (though I reserve judgement until I see whether they disclose and commit all the details including fees).
However, there’s nothing gracious about not retroactively changing the rules on existing owners — Tesla’s contractually committed to giving them free lifetime unlimited charging.

No. Not every company works like this. Here’s an example: I’ve had similar “you get such and such for life if you’re still a customer” offers that were contractual between AT&T and myself.

AT&T simply changed their terms; added features I never subscribed to, then later charged for them. They basically redefined my tier of service over time, without my permission, then later charged me for it. And that was the end of that. Nothing gracious about their Modus Operandi, unlike Tesla.

Tesla had to do something like this eventually. It would also be smart of them to start installing CCS/CHAdeMO chargers now that ranges are increasing.

Get Chevy and BMW owners pulling in next to Teslas on road trips. Please take some of our hard earned money, Elon!

The primary reason that Tesla set up the Supercharger network was to fight range anxiety and to promote sales of their cars.

Installing DCFC stations that can be used by non-Tesla cars would be contrary to that purpose. Tesla isn’t in the business of profiting from the sale of electricity.

Those who are in the business of installing EV fast chargers, should be in it to make a profit. That gives them an incentive to fix them when they’re broke, and to upgrade them over time.

It’s true that they don’t intend this to be a significant profit making enterprise. But I believe Elon truly has the goal of pursing EV growth across the entire market, and this would be a great way to continue that push! After all, isn’t Tesla on board with the CCS standard at least?

But if you prefer, perhaps a partnership with Chargepoint or EvGo to install more stations next to Supercharging stations is the way to go.

Besides all that, the CHAdeMO adapters are great advertisements for Tesla Motors. Adding other vehicles access to key Supercharging stations would be as well.

Tesla is NOT going to install CHAdeMO or CCS chargers.


I doubt Elon would diversify to another non-Tesla charging standard of CCS/Combo or CHAdeMo at the Tesla Supercharger Network. The consequences outweigh any benefits for the Tesla brand and its shareholders.

It might not make financial sense in the short term but I believe it will in the long term. I would make the analogue with iTunes and the iPod for Apple.

In the early days of the iPod, it would only work with mac computers and laptops to build an air of exclusivity.

A few years in, they switched from firewire to USB and ported iTunes to Windows. The excitement of this expansion to new platforms increased iPod sales dramatically. It increased music sales even more. The iPod provided a taste of apple hardware and software that was adequate on competing platforms, but was always better performing on Apple computers. They lured lots of new Mac buyers through the iPod and the iPhone once iTunes went multi-platform.

Tesla brings in many ideas from the tech industry to the car industry. As the EV market grows and matures, and Tesla lures the average car buyer with the Model III, having “exclusive” access to Supercharging stations is likely to limit Tesla’s potential, not expand it.

It may not end up happening, but I would not be at all surprised if it did.

Does that mean they are going to reduce the price of the Model S/X by $2000?

(hah.. I already know the answer)

First thing I thought of; but I would bet they will add some more standard features and even raise the price…I could see them making Air Suspension standard on the S and raise the price by $2000…

They just added an nVidia SuperComputer running a Neural Network, to power the new AutoPilot… Isn’t that enough?

I’d rather have less cowbell and a lower price.

Ask your insurance company, what they want– you to drive or the AI. The cost is yours to bear.

They don’t have an AI policy

They may very well by the time your Model 3 is ready to pick up. 🙂

So, I was right about Tesla changing the terms of service for Supercharger use before they started selling the Model ≡. Not that this was any great feat of prognostication on my part; it was pretty obvious that the business model of “unlimited free charging, forever” wasn’t going to hold for cars sold at a less than “premium” price.

Interesting that Tesla decided to cap the use for all cars sold in the future, not just the Model ≡.

“Current Tesla owners are not affected by this change.”

That was also expected, at least by me. For legal reasons, Tesla had to “grandfather in” unlimited, free use forever for current Tesla car owners, because that’s what their advertising promised.

Now, does this mean that the Model ≡ will come with Supercharger access for free, without having to pay for that as an option? This press release seems to imply that, but doesn’t state it directly.

I bet NO Tesla will even have an option for free, unlimited SC’ing after 1 Jan 2017.

With the exception of maybe a fully loaded, top of the line P100DL or something. People that can afford to blow that much money likely won’t be hanging around Superchargers late at night topping off to save a few bucks.

Most likely right, but I could see them doing dangling it as a limited of time end of quarter promotion or to add the option for slow selling Models…Whether lifetime or even “double your annual supercharging mileage promo”…

One interesting question will be if you trade in your 2016 or older Tesla to Tesla, will they disable free lifetime charging?

One problem is it seems like a very low allowance…Just thinking half of these are sold in Cali and we like to go to places as for SoCalers, San Deigo, Palm Springs, L.A. area, Santa Barbara, Vegas and Mammoth Lakes are all popular destinations…As it’s been stated many times before, if you’re staying at an overnight hotel have to plan in advance to ensure you’re able to charge at the hotel…Many don’t bother and preferred to just supercharge on the way…

I would expect this to affect resale value of current Teslas, since the free charging for life won’t be transferable?

Why wouldn’t it be “transferable”? I believe it’s tied to the car, not the owner.

It will be interesting to see how big a bump of Nov/Dec sales this creates.

“Free for life” is nice, but I’m guessing if you ran the #’s, you won’t be spending that much $ Supercharging.

Yeah, it’s a benefit that probably is a lot better on paper than in reality.

another great reason to buy used. I’m also getting free 4G. Not sure how long that will last though.

if someone is buying a used tesla model S on the premise that free lifetime supercharging is transferred, they would definitely be wise to check that out because that is not an assumption that i would make. i don’t think that it that significant, though, because the people for whom free supercharging is critical have probably already bought a model S.

I would agree, CPO and private party sales may reset the supercharger benefit to the current available program. I hope for the sake of resale, they grandfather to the VIN vs the owner. If that’s the case, I may finally place an order of the X sooner, rather than later.

I don’t think a Tesla Supercharger station is checking DMV records when you plug in.

how do you think that auto makers are able to track you down when they send out recall notices? that doesn’t mean that tesla would know the minute a car registration is done that a transfer had occurred. but i would think that eventually tesla would find out. not to mention that i suspect that tesla would be able to know the location of the car so that it would be able to determine, even without getting dmv information, that the location of the car had changed.

I’ll reiterate; I don’t think Tesla is polling DMV records

Maybe not DMV records, but certainly Tesla Service Center records. Squeeeeekk….. (sound of door opening up for independent shops jumping in to service Teslas)

ok, i’ll take your word for it. the next time i buy a used car and get a recall notice from the manufacturer, i’ll assume that the manufacturer has a staff of psychics who were able to locate me through clairvoyance. 🙂

When I bought the car, Tesla said “free charging for lifetime”. I suppose they ment the lifetime of the car, and not the lifetime of me. So it should be transferable 🙂

Does anyone know for sure? That is why I asked.

tesla has no incentive to publicize negative information to state that free lifetime supercharging is *not* transferable. so if tesla doesn’t give you information to the affirmative, you can assume that the feature is *not* transferable. but that is why i stated that, if you are in the market to buy a used tesla model S, check it out with tesla if that is a critical condition of purchase for you.

People who bought Teslas in the past did so with the promise of free charging for the life of the car, including that being transferable. To make it non-transferable now would negatively impact resale value and be inconsistent with their grandfathering of existing cars.

It’s possible, but asking for legal challenges, so I would say it is unlikely it will become non-transferable.

my recollection was that the promise made by elon musk was to the *owners*. i don’t see any reason why musk would have made a statement of transferability when it comes to free supercharging because that wouldn’t have helped him sell cars to the people who are buying them new. but if there is a transferable promise, it would be in writing.

no comment — Stop the FUD. They put it in writing.

“Supercharging is free for the life of your Tesla vehicle”

Do you not understand what “life of your Tesla vehicle” means?

Does it mean the same thing as “as much as you want, for life”?

Because apparently, “as much as you want” means “but not for local driving.”

As soon as someone sells it, it’s no longer “your tesla”

Bingo! We have a winner.

i’m curious as to what your source of information is. notwithstanding, the wording that you have stated is not as compelling as you apparently think it is. in other words, if you are thinking about buying a used tesla model S, and if free supercharging is important to you, you’re still going to want to CHECK IT OUT.

Wow, you guys pretend that nobody has bought or sold a used Tesla.

The free charging follows the car. Ask any of the thousands and thousands of people who have bought used.

If you have any evidence to the contrary, bring it and stop making up crap.

As for the quote, I’m sorry that you are so incompetent at the internet, that you can’t even drop “Supercharging is free for the life of your Tesla vehicle” into google. Your failure at life is not my fault. I laid down the facts to back up my position, you have provided absolutely NOTHING.


maybe you should have read the article before commenting: TESLA HAS CHANGED ITS POLICY ON “FREE” SUPERCHARGING. so the issue is whether, going forward, people in the future will be able to count on this feature.

I read the article. Apparently you didn’t.

There is absolutely NOTHING in the article about previous vehicles being changed.

Stop the FUD. If you want to comment further, SITE YOUR SOURCE of your accusation.

Model 3 probably will get the same 1k free miles annually, if you are in the first 500k preorders and deliveries up to MY2020. After that, I bet the EV competion will be a lot tougher, and Tesla will have to get and retain more customers, by watching their bottom line much more carefully.

They already said that the supercharger hardware is standard in the model 3. Not the service though.

This will be better than the $2,000. extra fee to get unlimited miles forever. The older, rolled into the price of the car strategy, was an added expense, that some would pay for, but not use. This will weed out the commercial drivers that have been taking the Lions Share of the Supercharger program.

Not really as Tesla is not removing the charge for supercharging built into the car for lifetime unlimited supercharging. Tesla is pocketing that and giving new owners supercharging crumbs.

It’s reasonable but the 1,000 mile credit is really tiny, especially for Model S and X owners. It’s the kind of credit I would expect for a Model 3.

Model S or X should get 5,000 miles.

The average American drives 12,000 miles per year this gives the consumer a free months worth of travel. giving the user almost half a year seams unreasonable even if they paid a ton of money for the car. I don’t see Porsche giving a free month of gas per year to its customers. If this allows Tesla to build out there SC network before most users get the Model 3 that is hugely beneficial for the future of Tesla.

I Drive Far Less than Average, it’s just that what I do drive – is very little on the Commute Side, and far more on the Road Trip side – since I can and should walk to work, commuting is not my concern, but Road Trips are! Even 5,000 miles a year for My Typical Road Trips is a bit light! Minimums area about 2,000 for one week, to about 3,500 for two weeks. I get 4 Weeks Vacation – so that means about 6,000-8,000 miles in road Tripping – so – a ‘1,000 Mile Credit’ only works if that is a ‘Free – or – Base Amount’ and the cost to Supercharge – is much less than a tank of Gas – as Tesla Owners have said – it costs them $5.00 to fill up to drive Toronto to Ottawa, which would usually be about $50 in Gas for my cars, so charging just $40.00 or even $35.00 for a Supercharger fill, would be quite nuts, in my opinion! Basically – the balance and the challenge – is to have an attractive product, and an attractive policy – so we will see if this works to boost sales in… Read more »

The allowance has to be small enough to stop people leeching, but large enough to avoid people worrying about having money in the account if they’re just occasionally pushing range.

200 miles of range is enough for something like 85% of average US household miles, and even then trips beyond range average on the shorter side, which means that people only need a portion of their trip miles from on-the-road charging. 1,000 miles of on-the-road range would cover a lot of use cases other than a conscious road-trip.

So the Bolt will arrive first by at least a year, be cheaper than a base Model 3 + $1,200 destination (assist from Costco), and now unlimited, free Supercharging is now off the table as an advantage for the 3 (and what looks like all Teslas as of 1 Jan ’17).

I bet a bunch of Model 3 reservation holder’s eyeballs just glanced at the Bolt once again. 😀

Without GM backing a coherent charging network, Tesla has a massive advantage.

Massive, quite possibly, might’ve been an understatement.

That plan has a long way to go.

I live in Houston with family on the East Coast. Seeing that map pretty much cemented my Model 3 plans.

I am shocked that Florida was completely skipped. Look at the density map of SuperChargers to get an idea of where EV sales are in the US.

I would never drive from Houston to the East Cost, but to each their own.

I hear ya.

But trying to pack the entire family for a week long beach trip on a plane is futile. It is a driving trip.

I would never drive for business.

I’m told South Padre Island is nice 😀

Where do you get the information that Model lll wont come before december 2017?
Bolt will cost $37495 and Model lll will cost $35000, still less then Bolt. Even if it’s not free you are able to charge at 120 kW with Model lll and 50 kW with Bolt, that’s a big different. And then add autonomous driving even if it cost extra.

Guaranteed Costco pricing for a base Bolt INCLUDING destination charge is $36,030. Base Model 3 (delivered….god knows when) will cost $35k + $1,200 delivery fee (all Teslas have been charged this fee to date) is $36,200….or $170 more than a base Bolt via a Costco dealer.

Then toss in any local GM incentives/GM card earnings/other rebates, and even a DCFC-equipped Bolt EV will be cheaper than a base Model 3 delivered in…..maybe late 2018? Maybe?

Good point about charge time differences; there’s no comparison. Well, this ought to drive up the resale value of vintage Model S and X vehicles! Honestly, 1,000 miles a year isn’t worthless. If you have destination charging and home charging, that shaves off 150-250 miles from your balance, each direction. One point of note is that Hy-Vee Superchargers are paying for the electricity, so I leave room for some businesses sponsoring their supercharger locations. If you think about it, 20-60 minutes of a captive buyer’s time is significant. If the usage fee is broken down by electricity and a service fee, then that’s $5 off the bill (commercial electricity rates). Another side effect of this is if you can manage to get 265 wh/mile in a Tesla, you can get 1500 miles of range instead. I expect that the Model III owners will easily be able to pull off that figure, since I could do 240-250 in my Model S from the banks of the Mississippi to the California Coast. Yay for being an early adopter. I do not envy late 2017 and beyond Model X P100D buyers, however. All that money on a vehicle, and there is still an… Read more »

We’ve discussed the charging time comparisons of the Model S vs. Bolt at length. There is not much of an advantage with the smaller battery Tesla over the BOlt EV.

30 minutes in a Tesla Model S60 (not the 75Kwh) battery version) = 103 miles
30 minutes in a Bolt EV = 90 miles.

So 13 miles.. yay.

I need to pen an article about this at some point. People think the Model S will blow the Bolt away when it comes to charging. In reality, it will probably take about the same amount of time.

there is good and bad here.

Musk initially said the “S”, if the $2000 option was taken, (now included in the price) was free forever.

Hopefully existing owners will be so compensated ‘forever’.

But for anyone buying a Model “S”, or “X”, hopefully they can get their deposit back if this kills the deal for them – I don’t believe this was precisely stated.

THE GOOD part is Musk is grandfathering most owners ‘In’.

And the bad part isn’t so bad, and presumably affects only a very few, if any.

The biggest thing Musk ever did to piss people off were those who put down a large deposit for a $89,000 Roadster, and then to find out their Non-refundable Deposit needed another $20,000 (plus tax) to consumate.

This is nowhere near that severe, and it is probably as good a time as any to address the issue.

But it does make one keep in the back of one’s mind any seemingly wild promises Musk has made for the future. He doesn’t have much problem ‘modifying’ the collective memory.

But, all in all, a pretty fair policy – better to be honest later, then not at all.

And, of course, its better than other companies, such as Fisker, who went tits up having no insurance for their entire stock of new vehicles during a hurricane.

Those owners were rather left in the lurch, even if the warranty was partially covered.


Be prepared to suffer the slings and arrows of outraged Tesla fanbois/cult-members. 🙁

Sven: I should not take too many arrows on this one, since I did say it was ‘pretty fair’, and that the downside will affect ‘few, if any’.

The only possibility (you’re more expert at closely examining clauses) is if games are played with the words, “date”, “order”, “deposit” and “intent”.

He was speaking to ClarksonCote

Yeah, really? I could have never figured that out for myself. I like talking to SVEN so I chimed in. – Hope I have your permission, not that I need it.

Even if he pens such article, people will just not read it. I have section in my blog post about Tesla’s huge taper, and I point it out, yet nonsense about Tesla’s _huge_ advantage over Bolt as if there’s no taper with Tesla still linger.

Fact is, today’s Tesla is only slightly quicker than Bolt (extrapolated from SparkEV) on average to 80%. If you’re using DCFC, you’re on long road trip, so it would make sense to go up to 80% or more. Beyond 80%, Bolt could be quicker if you extrapolate SparkEV rate.

It’s not just about _your_ charging time, it’s about _everybody’s_ charging time.
Slower charging requires more chargers.
More chargers means more installation cost.
More installation cost means more up-front cost to recover.
More up-front cost to recover means higher fees.
Alternatively, you can have the same number of chargers, but an increased chance of having to wait in line to get a charge.

Very good point. Actually hadn’t considered that.

We are also talking about the Bolt EV, which is being made today (2016), vs. the Model 3 which is a year (or years?) off. The Electric Corridor is talking about 150kW chargers that would be faster than Tesla’s Superchargers today. If/when these 150kW arrive, let’s see what EVs are available and revisit charging times.

Uh… The Tesla Supercharger is ALREADY capable of 150, NOW. But their cars, currently aren’t. It will be interesting to see what the recharge rate for the new 100 kWh packs are capable of, soon. 🙂

Only 135kW and not all of them.

No, that’s the current max level a Tesla vehicle historically takes in power at the early stage of DCFC. The stations are actually rated much higher, as stated the court findings of a lawsuit between EcoTricity and Tesla.

i missed the previous extensive discussion on this matter but in a 75kWh battery, you could get 60kWh while charging at full rate. so, at a supercharger station, you should be able to get a 60kWh “full” charge in 30 minutes if the car has a 75kWh battery. that means that you would get about 200 miles of range in 30 minutes. that’s a lot more than 90 miles.

suggestions that people are going to refuse to buy model S or model X cars in the future because there will no longer be unlimited supercharging sound crazy to me. even a base model S60 is priced like a mercedes-benz e-class and a base model X is priced like a b#@z-o s-class. if the idea of paying for charging is going to be a deal breaker, you can’t afford these cars in the first place.

That’s specifically why I put the 75kWh disclaimer in my comment. That would be apples and oranges. People expect the base Model 3 to have a 60kWh (or less) battery. So using charging times for a car with 75kWh is irrelevant.

ok, but even with a 60kWh battery, you can recharge at full rate up to about 48kWh. a supercharging station is 135kWh, so you can deliver 48kWh in just over 20 minutes, certainly within 30 minutes in any event. that would be good for approximately 160 miles of range.

any way that i look at it, it seems to me that you are going to be able to recharge a tesla model 3 a lot faster at a supercharger station than you would be able to fast charge a chevrolet bolt. indeed, it appears to me that you would get twice as much range in 30 minutes with a tesla model 3 using supercharging than the best that you could do with a chevrolet bolt under the best case scenario.

There’s no reason to speculate here. We have videos, data, charts, all showing the recharge rate of the Model S60.

It’s 103 miles after 30 minutes. The Bolt EV will do 90. (unless GM is being conservative again, and it will actually do more)

what is your source of information? the tesla website says that you can get 100 miles of range in 15 minutes. what do the charts say about 30 minute range for S75? S90? S100?

I’ll be surprised if anyone is able to get a Model 3 for $35,000 before late 2018 or 2019. I’m betting early builds will be highly optioned $50,000+.

Realistically, the $35,000 Model 3 is only words on a page at the moment. For example, the first Model X were delivered about this time one year ago. Tesla is still ironing production today, as evidenced by current production figures.

That’s assuming no “Stealership Markup”.

Who knows when costco will even be allowed to sell the Bolt.

Unlimited free supercharging was never on the table for the 3

How many people plopped down $1k hoping that might be a possibility though? *eyebrows raised*

Pretty much none. They actually announced it wouldn’t be free before they started taking orders, and have repeated it every time they talk about the 3 and Supercharging. Nobody on the list for the new car is “trapped” in anything they don’t want, they can get off the list at ANY TIME and get your deposit back.

I believe many, if not the vast majority, of people who put down a $1K deposit on the Model 3 hoped or expected that “unlimited free Supercharging” would be offered as an option for a reasonable price.

Revisionist history (BS). No one I know or have spoken with regarding the Model 3 or the First Reveal, has ever had that expectation.

Maybe on Planet Sven– but only you live there.

Really? No one you know or have spoken with regarding the Model 3 or the First Reveal, has ever had the expectation that “unlimited free Supercharging” would be offered as an option for a reasonable price(as I said in my comment above).

Maybe on Planet My Mother’s Basement– but only you live there with your parents upstairs. 😉

“vast majority”

Source please.

Maybe some. Depends a lot on the Supercharger price. Tesla only needs to make their Superchargers expensive enough to keep leeches away.

Did you add the $750 to the Bolt for CCS fast charge option? And the Bolt won’t get 400 kWh of free DC charging per year.

That has a value of around $100-$200 per year as well. That could be worth another couple of thousand dollars over 5 years of ownership.

No, the supercharge network is still a brilliant feature, it’s faster than CCS, it’s in more useful locations, has multiple stalls at all locations, most important of all, it’s RELIABLE, which is more than you can say for any other charge network.

The bolts not bad, but it’s just silly to say it’s a tri Tesla competitor if you need long distance travel.

Everyone knew this had to come, and I’m more than glad it’s starting well before the model 3 arrives.

Why is this website not talking about the latest firey crash of a Model S that has killed two people? This website usually likes to discuss such things. The S failed in this case – spectacularly.

You might want to exit your short TSLA stock position. I hear another short squeeze is coming soon.

The reason is because the crash involved two deaths, caused by excessive speeds and a tree – and nothing at all to do with a “fire”, that was a result of the obliteration of the car on impact/after the fact.

We try to be mindful that these crashes involved human beings, so when deaths are involved those crashes need to be directly related to the ‘electrification’ of that automobile for us to cover, and not just a opportunistic grab of eyeballs…that is what Tesla drag racings are for, lol

I too was looking around. fanbois will say shorting is responsible for the 7.5% stock price drop.

Whatever. But there have been 3 recent fires, not all involving crashes.

I’d love to see a comparison between percentage VOLT fires, and percentage Tesla Fires. They are both roughly the same age.

The one at the Supercharger, I blame the Supercharger *Not* the Tesla, and mainly because the SC is compliant with the ‘letter’ of code enforcement and not the ‘spirit’.

On such a high-power device, an operable ‘Disconnecting Means’ is required.

Technically there is one: to the Tesla Tech in the Corral who was there 4 years ago.

But the people who USE the product every day find a locked corral they have no permission to enter, even in an emergency.

I actually find it bizarre that people expect a wrecked car to not catch fire.

I suppose I can understand people covering autopilot wrecks due to the newness of the technology. People are interested in it.

However, a person driving off the road and into a tree is a terrible tragedy not news.

No. It is NOT a tragedy. If anything, it’s natural selection and a nomination for a Darwin Award. The driver has no one to blame for her death but herself. She was recklessly speeding at VERY HIGH speeds on city streets in a densely populated urban area, the city of Indianapolis, when she lost control on a curve.

It would be a tragedy if the reckless, selfish, irresponsible driver killed a pedestrian on the sidewalk where the car came to a rest after bouncing off the tree and the building, or killed a bicyclist in the bike lane that she crossed after losing control, or killed someone in an apartment or storefront when she careened into the building. The deceased driver is lucky that she didn’t kill any innocents.

In NYC, I once helped lift a car off an pedestrian run over on the sidewalk after a speeding car lost control, jumped the sidewalk, and mowed down innocent pedestrians. Sorry, but I have no sympathy whatsoever for the Indianapolis Tesla driver and her passenger.

Wow… what a baffling reply.

Of course it would be even more tragic and outrage inducing if they had killed a pedestrian as well.

There were two people in the car. For all you know, the passenger may have been begging her to slow down. She could have been wearing high heels that got caught in the accelerator and she could not let up. She may have intended to slam on the brakes but accidentally hit the accelerator since people so rarely use the breaks in a Tesla. You have no idea whatsoever.

But I guarantee you, both had family and both had led meaningful lives.

From the article I read, he had been a regular supporter for multiple charities in the area, was a former FBI special agent, and developed software which the federal government uses to contact people in areas affected by an emergency.

I was not there to witness what occurred, and neither were you I assume.

Keep your knee jerk reactions and judgement to yourself and show a little compassion at LEAST for their friends and loved ones.

I hope this is a learning experience for everyone who reads about this story. Street racing kills.

You’re saying her high heel might have got caught in the accelerator or she might have wanted to hit the brake pedal but hit the accelerator instead? Really? I might have been born, but it wasn’t yesterday. The accident occurred at 1 am on Thursday morning. I doubt that they were working late, and rather they went out for drinks after work. At that hour, her passenger should have been home with his wife of 15 years and their four children.

Perhaps you should also look up the definition of tragedy.

Sure man, no problem:

“Simple Definition of tragedy

: a very bad event that causes great sadness and often involves someone’s death

: a very sad, unfortunate, or upsetting situation : something that causes strong feelings of sadness or regret”

Hmmm I’d definately say this qualifies:

If you don’t personally feel sadness in this situation then that’s fine, you clearly didn’t know either of them. However, it is possible for a persons death to be tragic even when it is of their own doing and could have been avoided. A “Tragic Downfall” is not an unusual concept in history or fiction.

And I also hope that people see this news story and similar ones and try to drive more safely. But your desire doesn’t ring true when in the same breath you imply that people who do not drive safely deserved to die.

Anyway, done with this… It totally got off topic as I’m sure Abegude Wanabe wanted it to.

Back to the EV news which is why I come here in the first place. 🙂

I did a check around the horn, and found Autoweek all over it. They are as cult’ish as the worst you’ll find here, but in the opposite direction. You’ll get the video loop showing exploding cells, when you search car reviews on “Tesla”. They don’t even review the car. C&D mostly the same, preferring to stick to its track analysis and “1,600 mile road trips”, that nobody else does. Not much on quiet, or low gravity center. They’re in the other cult.

RE: Free supercharging for life, on pre-2017 orders, I’m surprised there wasn’t some attenuation of the existing perk. A big “THANK YOU”, from Elon. I don’t think Tesla has had “free supercharging” in the language of deliveries for some time, and think they could have put the cutoff in 2015, or maybe earlier.

I saw that on the news the guy must have at least been doing 80 miles on hour to destroy the Tesla.

Amazing, ANOTHER new username (Abegude Wanabe) popping up in an attempt to spread anti-Tesla FUD!

Nothing gets past you! 😉

Because GASOLINE cars exploding and killing / disfiguring people are actually far more common??? Have some facts:

“cheaper than filling up a comparable gasoline car” doesn’t sound very appealing. I really hope they won’t charge more than the grid price for the electricity.

Yeah, $1 cheaper than filling up a BMW M5 is not exactly much to brag about.

It is when, for the rest of time, all your M5’s fills are at ~$.12/mile, when your garage can “pump” the faster accelerating Tesla @~$.04.

That just means that both of those vehicles are very expensive for long-distance trips, but that the Tesla also takes much, much longer to refuel.

BEVs are simply not a good choice for a long trip, and they won’t be anytime soon.

Are you kidding? Why would they not charge more than residential rates? It’s way better than the electricity you get at home (ie faster), and it costs a hell of a lot more to install and operate the equipment (have you heard of demand charges?). Even if it was priced on par with gasoline, you’d still be coming out way ahead if you’re charging at home or at work for 90% of your driving.

Waiting on charging on long trips is ok as long as its “free” or veery cheap. But if the electricity costs more than half as much as gasoline while still taking ten times longer to fill up then people will probably still consider owning a fossil car to use for longer trips.

And as EM said, SC will be no profit area. Some amount of the cost of the car could still be assigned to SC hardware.

Good news, but not great. Given that most Leaf average about 7000 miles a year, 1000 miles a month of free is essentially free charging. While some may have “free anxiety” and not charge as often (ie, plug in every damn time they see DCFC), same mentality will carry over to Tesla 3 that cost roughly that of Leaf and similar buying demographic.

Any restriction on free is better than none, but I hope there won’t be any free for Tesla 3.

Except that it’s per year, not month.

Oopsie. 🙂

It’s an annual annual allotment, not a monthly allotment. 1000 miles can get used up pretty quickly if you take a few long distance trips (which you can’t comfortably do with a Leaf).

Musk said he does want to automate supercharger stations using the octopus arms…Why they don’t they just hire a person for minimum wage, even at $15, seems like a much cheaper option…But if this will help them achieve that goal I’m all for it…

Only if they wear this uniform.

I don’t think you understand how expensive people are. 24/7 at $15/hour is a bit over $130k per year. There’s a reason why billions are being poured into autonomous vehicle research, and it’s not philanthropic.

That’s only for base pay, and it’s actually lot more when you consider benefits (>50 employees) and tax paid by employer (eg. 50% of SS by employer) not to mention management of all those employees and “waste” inevitable in any large organization. It might end up being closer to $200K/yr.

Do you need 24/7 or would 8am-8pm make more sense? Three part time four hour shifts a day of from the “Walmart greeter” pool…Currently only a few major metro cities have $15/hr, that’s where you deploy your Dr Octopus arm chargers while the majority of the U.S. is under $10/hr minimum wage…Look into hiring independent contractors…People love Tesla, it would be an easy job, all Tesla need to do to hire qualified applicants is a single tweet from Musk; instantly get 100K+ applicants…

There is already a Supercharger to Chademo adapter. Seems like its time for Tesla to move to open up their stations and make it a formal business.

There’s a CHAdeMO to Tesla port.

No, he’s referring to this:

But it’s not really “already out” and it’s not intended for Supercharger use.

OP said “Supercharger to Chademo”

That link has a specific Chademo modification to a Rav4 EV only and has nothing to do with Tesla SC.

The public will make a mountain out of this, and forget that many Tesla owners have yet to even try a “Supercharger”.

The public won’t even know about it. Wake up.

Again, maybe this will thin down the Model ≡ line……

Oh dear, that’s one advantage gone. The superchargers are still good but much less so now. Still, it’s understandable when some people are way over-using them.

If they start selling lots of M3s before having a very large supercharger network to handle them, they would get lots of angry MS and MX owners because of all the overcrowded chargers. I guess the unplanned M3 ramp up made them also rethink their plans for the supercharger network.

Putting a cap makes sense since it ensure that the chargers do not become overly congested. It ensures that people who need it can have access without extensive wait times but giving 400kwh covers most people’s out of the routine travels, such as vacations.

Reasonable I guess all Teslas 2012 to 2016 will have a better resale value with unlimited free charging for life.

You don’t have an electric car, do you?

The cost per year spent charging on the road will be tiny for most users. Some 95% of all charging takes place at home or work, and few will spend on average even $30 a month on it. And most people prefer to have money/stuff now rather than have a little extra in the future, which is why most people have more debt than savings until late in life. I reckon it’ll be worth a few hundred bucks, like good tires, in a used car.

I was fuzzy there. Most people will spend much less than $30 a month, on average, on their on-the-road charging, even if the energy cost is much higher than at home. In the 20 months I’ve had my car, I reckon I’ve spent maybe $200 on fast charging. Granted, I don’t go far in my LEAF, but I reckon in a Bolt or Model 3 I’d ONLY ever fast charge on long trips, so my bill would likely have been smaller still.

Thinking back to when I last owned an ICE-age fossil burner, a couple of decades ago, I can count on one hand the number of times I drove more than 200 miles in a day.

Doesn’t really matter. The greedy Teslas will appeal to high-mileage drivers.

I’m glad they are finally coming up with a solution that’s not all-you-can-eat, as it’s the first step in opening the network to non-Tesla vehicles. Tesla has said before that they are willing to work with other OEMs as long as they pay their fair share. Why can’t I pay Tesla a fee ($2500 for a Tesla to CCS adapter for example) to get access for my Bolt? Just because GM won’t play doesn’t mean other EV owners wouldn’t be interested if they aren’t interested in a Tesla vehicle specifically. Would this not be in line with Telsa’s mission statement?

Bolt is only rated for 50kW while even the slowest charging Tesla can handle 90 kW peak and 60 kW on average. Giving charging to slower charging EV would be detrimental to Tesla.

But if other EV could charge as long as it’s not affecting Tesla (ie, slow down or cut off other EV when Tesla is charging), it could be a business case for Tesla. Rather than sitting empty or using 1/4 the power due to charge taper, they could make extra money. Then the question becomes how to tow away those other EV that could be blocking Tesla from reaching the charger.

I doubt there will be enough punters willing to pay $2500 for such an adapter. It certainly would be annoying after two years, having charged for $80 along the way, to find yourself surrounded by CCS stations and not needing any adapter no more.

Happily for me I live in a country with considerably more public chargers than Tesla ones, although the latter are great. I just hope the 150 kW CCS rollout gets started soon and that the Ampera-e will allow us to go a bit above 50 kW. But really even this is but a minor detail, since I expect to need fast charging only a few times per year. I may decide to drive down to France in summer, or even to Spain once they begin to get the infrastructure, but I would be vacationing and simply prefer to take my time. Enjoying the Rhine valley is much nicer than spending all day behind the wheel anyway.

Maybe not, but I would certainly consider it! In MI, if I were to try to drive nearly anywhere else in the country I’d either be sitting for 6-8 hours at a time or using Superchargers as there are nearly zero CCS chargers, and none along any of the freeways. Here’s to hoping that changes soon!

Mainly aimed at fleet services. I would like to see a break down of users above the cut-off, sans taxis and other fleets, to know how many actually use that much percentage wise.
I think it would be rather small.

Tesla has the numbers, so whatever they are, this will very likely be enough to make a difference.

Even if it’s just ten percent of users who charge more than this, they may account for ninety percent of supercharger use. All it takes is for the vast majority to use it much LESS than these thousand miles annually…

I know one thing at least. If I had bought free for life anything, I’d dislike to buy the same thing elsewhere. So if I was regularly passing by a supercharger I’d likely try to incorporate its use into my routine. All it takes to change this dynamic is to make sure it’s actually more expensive to charge at the supercharger than it is at home. It can still be half the price of gasoline, so that people living in condos or otherwise forced to rely on away-from-home charging can use them.

Well it’s incremental, so it will punish the biggest users of power the most, which will bring down the average overall.
My point is that you can’t know for sure and that’s why they just raised the rates based on how much, you use.

So do you still get to pay the same amount for Supercharger access on these newer cars (MS and MX)?

I would personally be extremely pissed if all of a sudden I was paying $2-$3k for Supercharger access and could only get 400kWh a year out of it. I would rather have the option to NOT pay for it and charge at other places if needed.

Nobody knows at this point.

All new Tesla bake the Supercharger into the price. I guess we’ll see in April next year what they do with the price.

This is actually very smart of Tesla and the price is reasonable.

I wonder if the prices will fluctuate with the price of gas or be strictly tied to the cost of electricity in the region. Probably tied to electricity if they’re trying to keep the chargers from becoming a profit center.

Smart model.

I really hope that this is a sign that they are going to discount the Model S slightly in order to justify taking away some of the value add of unlimited supercharging. This to me was one of the selling points of the S over the coming 3. Since I’m really itching for an excuse to buy an S now and not wait for my Model 3, this would be a valuable incentive. Personally to me, I think they need to just drop the S60 and make the S75 the base model at the same price. Drop it a few thousand after that because of the decrease in cost of unlimited supercharging and you have a true 75kwh Model S at $64K and then I may be interested. I think it is become really hard for them to justify their base model luxury sedan having less range than the Chevy Bolt. Combine this with the fact that the new powerwall is 15kwh and costs $5500 vs. the $8500 they want for the extra 15kwh (13kwh usable) for an upgrade to an S75. Especially given that the cells are already in the S60! This is getting stupid. Just sell me an… Read more »

That puts all the Model 3 Reservation holders into a 400 free kWh program, as none of us have ordered our Model 3s yet.

I don’t find that to be unreasonable. I expect the 3 to do ~ 4 {or so} miles per kWh on average, so 1600 free use miles annually.

Supercharging has been included on the S and X, but Tesla has not said there will be no payment on the 3.

Does free Supercharging transfer if I buy a used Model S? I would think so, since Tesla knows only that VIN X is supercharging and that VIN X is a Model S built and sold before a certain date, etc.

Or, if I buy a used Model S after 1/1/17, is Tesla notified of the sale, and would they consider it a new purchase for Supercharging purposes?

I actually suspected the Model 3’s would pay for Supercharging. I’m surprised Tesla is creating a second class of Model S. I assume it’s true too for the Model X’s?

I think what you’re seeing here is more of a response to abuse of the Supercharger network than an attempt to screw over their customers. The problem is that quite a few Teslas were sold with the understanding that “Supercharging will always be free” and that reared up and bit them. This is a way to not have to send those “you’re using the supercharger too much” emails.

From what I’ve seen this is not a charge to use Superchargers as much as a way to prevent excessive use of them.

Just make it pay as you go and call it DONE!

Pay as you go is not a good way to pay for DCFC. The fundamental problem is low volume per station. It really needs some kind of up-front infrastructure charge or subscription.

CHAdeMO and CCS is pay as you go, so by that logic all of them are not a good idea?

Many L2 public chargers are pay as you go as well.

All of this Tesla SC talk got me thinking… I realize that Tesla is smart, and although they encourage other EV’s to be developed and sold, they are not going to PROMOTE other cars. Having said that, what we need is for Tesla to get into the Car Charging business. (I know all the reasons why it is NOT a good idea…I am just fantasizing!). Imagine being able to drive your Bolt EV, or LEAF II or VW whatever EV and plan a trip around stopping at a Tesla owned and designed QC facility? You’d know that they would be working fine, there would be plenty of lighting at night, a place or places to eat, restrooms, etc. OK, now, back to reality….

i think thats the plan. Think about it, Tesla designed the Supercharger network for interstate travel, and pushing back more and more on local charging. Having an interstate charging network for just one brand of vehicle does not make good business sense. Especially when over 90% of the charging for those cars will happen at home.

But right now Tesla is the only one in the long distance, 300+ mile EV game. But that won’t be for long. And soon we will have Tesla Energy Superchargers, with other automakers paying to add CCS plugs to the chargers.

The current list of CPO cars just became a hot commodity….

CPO’s have always been.

Buying a Tesla new over a CPO is a stupid decision. CPO’s are so much cheaper and Tesla Service will fix everything for free so you literally get a completely refurbished Tesla for tens of thousands cheaper

Hey, so do you think Tesla will have…
“Rollover WHrs”!?!?!?!?!?

Would be nice if one could sell their “Rollover WHrs” on ebay too!!!


If you are reading this, you probably have way too much time on your hands!!!! How about everybody take a deep breath and cross the bridge when we get to it.

Sounds reasonable to me. They need to pay for the Supercharger stations and the electricity. 1000 free miles a year is good.

1000 is not enough. I would rather have seen “all you need” for 4 weeks in a year. Covers the family road trips and makes the abusers go away.

If you use 2000 miles, think of it as buy 1000 miles get 1000 miles for free. It is still a heck of a deal.

M3 options shall be more pricey we expect. Tesla wants to earn and with all these preorders and question marks about production capacity would give a good tool to earn on options. The other thing will be payments for charging and connectivity. Once millions of cars on road it shall be nice constant income.

From the Tesla website:

“How much does it cost to use the Superchargers?

Supercharging is free for the life of your Tesla vehicle, once the Supercharger option is enabled.”

So free supercharging for life follows the car, not the person.

i suggest that you read the statement again, but more closely this time, and reconsider whether you have interpreted it correctly.

There is no need to try and re-parse for some hidden meaning. Because tens of thousands of used Tesla’s have already changed hands, and the free charging for the life of the vehicle has followed the car.

If you have an alternate interpretation for something that has already been proven in real life to work exactly like it says, provide PROOF that your alternate interpretation is somehow the real meaning of this phrase.

Not speculation. Not pulling BS out your backside. Actual proof. Stop the slander, stop the lies.

so you have *directly* checked with tesla and you were told by tesla that your interpretation is correct?

i didn’t think so…

no comment —

so YOU have *directly* checked with tesla and you were told by tesla that your interpretation is correct?

I absolutely know you didn’t.

I have the well known and documented reality backing me up. You have… nothing. What is YOUR evidence that current cars that have always had supercharger access follow the vehicles has changed?

Because nothing from Tesla states that. Nothing in this article. Nothing on the Tesla website.

Bring your PROOF. Because I already did. I brought the documentation directly from the Tesla website, and I’ve shown how that documentation has ALREADY been interpreted by Tesla to mean the free charging follows the car.

It cracks me up how you FUD spreaders don’t think you ever have any burden to prove your FUD. Get a life.

Free for life on pure sunlight.

That was a unique selling point.

Gone as from 2017.

Too bad