2019 Nissan LEAF With 60-kWh Battery Test Charges At 102 kW

JUL 16 2018 BY ERIC LOVEDAY 184

Is this the first time we see what the new, thermally-managed 60-kWh LEAF battery is capable of?

EVTEC recently released some images of what it claims to be the 2019 Nissan LEAF charging at a rate of 102 kW.

This particular LEAF is reportedly the upcoming and hugely anticipated 60-kWh version.

As you’ll see in the attached images, which EVTEC has now removed from its Twitter page, the LEAF pulls off the 102-kW charging rate when the battery is somewhat low on charge. The state-of-charge shown is 32%. This is typically a point at which a battery can charge more rapidly than when it reaches a percent closer to 100.

Further down in the comments of the now-deleted Tweet (which we wisely screen grabbed), EVTEC confirms this to be the 2019 LEAF with the 60-kWh pack:

Our sources tell us that the 2019 Nissan LEAF with the optional 60-kWh pack will likely launch this Fall, though this date is subject to change.

What we do believe to be certain is that the pack will be sourced from LG Chem and will have thermal heat management. However, the recently failed AESC battery sale effort could have some unknown-to-us impact on all of this. We’re still fairly confident in our previous predictions though, so we’ll highlight them below:

  • 225 miles or more of electric range
  • Base price of approximately $35,000
  • Active thermal management of battery
  • CHAdeMO fast-charge capability
  • Launch as 2019 Model Year offering

Most of these details were confirmed and first laid out by us back in January of this year. Some of those details can be found in this Nissan slide:

Categories: Charging, Nissan

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184 Comments on "2019 Nissan LEAF With 60-kWh Battery Test Charges At 102 kW"

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bro1999

Someone is likely getting/was fired…

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

or at minimum a major Asz chewing……..LMAO.

Leptoquark

From Google translate: Du bist gefeuert.

Miggy

The new Leaf 60 will also have a more powerful motor at 150kW (same as the Bolt) this compared to the Leaf 40 with a 110kW motor.

SparkEV BoltEV

This proves what I’ve been saying all along that current Leaf are ass end of EV. Don’t buy current Leaf or any older Leaf since they lack TMS, and convince others to stay away. Finally, Nissan will have real EV out next year instead of the crap they’re pushing now. As Trolly would write,

No TMS, NO SALE!

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

+1000
No Active TMS, NO SALE!

KenZ

I don’t disagree that lack of TMS was a penny wise, pound foolish choice. That said, an INFORMED buyer can still make a Leaf a great purchase/lease if they know their situation. Example: my purchased-used 2013 Leaf still has 12 battery bars, and is just a hair under 67k miles. I know my commute is optimal for battery life, I know my environment is not overly degradation-prone, and I never fast charge, ever.

The issue though, as I’m sure you’re in violent agreement, is that even relatively savvy buyers are not necessarily informed to the level that they need to be to make a go/no go decision about the older Leafs. I look forward to the day we can put this behind us as ALL EVs will be appropriately temperature managed.

SparkEV BoltEV

Because of reputation, your Leaf will have lower resale value no matter how well you took care of it. Sure, if you buy and drive/charge it carefully only in moderate climate until the wheels fall off, that could be of some value to you. But for most people, pre-2019 Leaf are bad idea.

As for “moderate climate”, I live 40 miles from the beach, and the temperature hit 118F last week. I wouldn’t be able to drive the car any distance nor charge the car during the day at work without TMS. With TMS, just plug it in or drive no matter how hot, no need to skip going to work because the car can’t handle it.

I should add that lease is a different story, but even that is problematic due to lower DCFC charging power at hot weather.

Brian

KenZ is presumably on the right side of the depreciation curve, having bought his used.

Yay4EVcredits

I bought my ’17 Leaf brand new in spring 2017 for under $15k after federal credit. People keep talking about horrible depreciation, but they don’t take into account that only early adopters and the uninformed were paying more than $20k for ’16/’17 Leafs brand new. Even the ’18s are in the low 20’s after credits. ’18 Bolts are at least $5k more after credits. Bolts and Model 3s aren’t even in the same price class.

protomech

“Because of reputation, your Leaf will have lower resale value no matter how well you took care of it.”

If you purchase used, then you can take advantage of that lower resale value.

And the market will eventually adapt, if more competitive offerings are available at that price point then the dealers will have to put cash on the hoods to move the vehicles.

The Ioniq and the Golf EV are the only real competitors at that price point IMO, and the Ioniq is essentially not available outside a few states.

Nix

Yes, letting someone else take the initial depreciation hit is always a good idea.

The additional problem with the Leaf is that people have reported buying a used Leaf showing all the bars, only to lose a number of bars quite rapidly. Apparently it isn’t too hard to clear the computer so it shows all or most of the bars available, and then have the number of bars drop back to where it was before the computer was cleared after a few charge cycles.

SparkEV BoltEV

It depends on what price point and how (ill) informed the buyers are. Living in “moderate” climate SoCal that still sees 118F days and knowing what the heat can do to the battery and charging during the day, I wouldn’t want a Leaf at any price and actively persuade others from getting non TMS Leaf.

I liken it to dissuading people from FCEV that will be worthless once free fuel period expires: stay away from non TMS Leaf is public service announcement.

Brian

I’m sorry, but any climate that sees 118F is not “moderate”, especially in the context of this discussion. Silicon Valley, which only occasionally sees 100F, is still on the hotter side for a Leaf (and for a person without air conditioning – see what I did there?).

SparkEV BoltEV

I’m less than 40 miles from the pacific ocean. If this is not considered “moderate” area, Leaf shouldn’t be selling in SoCal.

Another thing to consider is urban thermal effect; while air temperature in shade might be 100F, parking lots will be whole lot hotter. Charging at work could be killing Leaf battery!

mm

You don’t live in a moderate climate. It hit 93 degrees here yesterday and that may happen two or three more times this summer.
We may buy our 30 kw Leaf at the end of the lease. Don’t need more range, or another cooling system to fix here.
It would indeed be different where you live.

SparkEV BoltEV

Only a crap EV without TMS like Leaf would consider 40 miles from the beach in SoCal as “not moderate climate”. For EV with TMS, just plugging in would keep the battery nice and cool as well as speedy DCFC despite 118F heat.

I hope you reconsider buying your lease Leaf, because there will be lot better options out there for the residual value.

Robert Weekley

Assuming you work day shift (07:00 – 15:00) or afternoon shift (15:00 – 23:00); but what about Midnight Shift (23:00 – 07:00)?

John Doe

We’re having a record summer with 80-90 ℉ every day for 2 months so far. With 118 ℉ people would think their in purgatory.
Up north 60 ℉ without rain would be considered a good summer temperature.

I still think active TMS should be standard, but for people who don’t live in a semi desert area – there have been few problems with LEAF batteries.
For users that fast charge a lot (which maybe more of the new EV customers may do – due to their need to drive longer distances) no active TMS may be a problem almost regardless of climate they drive in. . . as long as it is summer.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

When the Leaf get’s the “No charge to charge” freebies, they will definitely DCFC and clog the stations!

John

Or get a Tesla, where the Superchargers are (mostly) never clogged.

tm2

So Cal climate has nothing to do with “moderate” for BEVs. At least as far inland as 40 miles. The world doesn’t end at California border by the way. Try UK for example of “moderate” climate for Leaf. Or Tokyo.

To worry what happens with FCEV or Leaf or whatever after lease period expires is another strange Idée fixe. It is leasing company business, not buyer’s, that is the whole point of lease, residual value is fixed in advance for you. Most such new tech users understand it perfectly well and lease, not buy.

I wouldn’t lease Leaf for road trips either, So Cal or not. But if somebody needs (relatively) low price dedicated commuter car with all the g-ment perks for ZEVs and has cheap electricity, why not. Everybody can have very different needs.

menorman

I live in SoCal, my 2013 Leaf still has 11 bars at ~56k and it’s been 20k since I lost that first bar. I did buy it used and it was originally from the Bay Area, but the fact of the matter remains that it still has almost all its bars.

William

My So. Cal 2013 second hand Leaf, is at 11 bars as well, with 2k more miles than yours. It is important to point out, that the (#12) first bar loss, is equal in capacity loss/degradation, to any of the two remaining bars, such as #11 & #10 combined.

Why Nissan went with this 12 Bar, unequal battery capacity rating system, is anybody’s guess. Nissan could have had 13 equal increments, for their battery loss/degradation scale.

KenZ

Correct. I have zero plan to sell this thing. It’s a *%$&# used Nissan Leaf for God’s sake. Paid $9700 for it with 35k miles on it over two years ago. Will drive it for five years, then GIVE IT AWAY. If I can get just 4 years of commuting on it it’s a free car, and all I need for “true” range on it to pull that off is a solid 40 miles. I’m still at ~75-80 miles, so the next three years are (hopefully) gravy. Plus, if it dies outright, I’ll just get another cheap ass used Leaf.

The other advantage of not ever planning on reselling it is I can treat it like the small pickup truck it replaced. I haul rocks wood chips, mulch, construction materials, etc.

menorman

On the plus side, if it dies within that time frame, there might even be some Bolts trending down toward that price point by then.

menorman

One can get a base trim Leaf for $15k (plus tax) in some markets right now after incentives are considered and Nissan was previously giving them away as well. THAT is why the resale values are so low, not necessarily because of the battery issue. Only the ones with a trashed battery are cheap. Cars with decent battery life left hold their value.

Robert Weekley

And getting ones own “Leaf Spy” Device and App, before shopping a Used Leaf (& maybe even a new one, too), would be extra useful, it seems! As well as sleuthing the LEAF Forums for tips!

William

Using an OBD 2 reader (for LeafSpy Pro), on the New 2018 Leaf, can VOID the Nissan Leaf 8 year electronics warranty, at Nissans discretion of course.

This has been reported, according to the new 2018 Nissan Leaf users manual. Maybe someone here can verify this reported claim?

Troy

don’t really need LeafSpy any more since the 2018 reports battery health and tire PSI on the dashboard now

Big Solar

Im in exactly the same boat with my 2013 leaf. Bought it used for 13,500 with 7000 miles on it and always charge 120VAC to 80%. Still have 12 bars. 42,000 miles, maintenance costs so far have been $2.25 for a key fob battery. Tough to beat.

William

You are nicely ahead of the typical Leaf degradation curve. Kudos to the 120VAC charging strategy , in keeping your Leaf battery below (approximately) 14% battery degradation, over the past Five Years!

bro1999

Anyone who buys a ’18 Leaf (especially with this news of 100+ kW DCFC) is a complete fool. I feel for the suckers that already plopped down the money on a purchase.

SparkEV BoltEV

I’d also add buying even used Leaf are suckers, because non TMS Leaf resale value just took a huge dump.

Will

Good city car

SparkEV BoltEV

That depends on the city. If you’re in SoCal city like Pasadena (114F last week), it’s not good to plug in during many summer days if one cares about the car. And if one lives in a city where white powder (is that cocaine?) falls from the sky often, no TMS means there’s no way to warm the battery while plugged in. That will be limiting.

Troy

I DC’d my 2015 Leaf up to 85% SOC every day after work in the summer heat, when it was over 100℉ for months. Turned it in with 88% SOH after 32 months. You’re really full of it on this FUDster thing you’ve got.

Djoni

I have to agree with you Troy.
SparkEVBolt is mad for not owning a product that woulnd’t serve him well?
WTF?
I’m happy with a product (LeafMY2012) that serve me better than anything else I had before.
That’s it.
I just don’t make choice for others. Spark should apply that too.

Julian

Buying one today. Not feeling foolish well informed on the charging throttling issues. Coming out of a 2015 LEAF which I’ve enjoyed immensely. Will be happy to have a longer range.

Franky the Pierre

Not sure everybody complaining about the old Leaf actually owns one. I have a 2015,70k km, 98% health. Absolutely the ideal car for my needs. We also have a ICE car which we use when going out of range for the leaf (not crazy about charging every 100km). Commuting, all errands etc done in leaf. The payments for the leaf are lower than the fuel on fully paid car it replaced, and it also saves us tons of fuel on the ICE car because we use it a lot less than before.
Would I recommend the leaf as your only vehicle? Absolutely not! But as the commute car, it’s perfect!

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

“Not sure everybody complaining about the old Leaf actually owns one”

I’m almost positive you’re correct!

I don’t own one. I visit our “Fleet services” and drive them. Our fleet manager showed me the 2018 Leaf’s that have one bar already gone and only a few charge at L2 and most charge at L1 because they were too cheap to get more than one L2 12A EVSE’s!
There are a couple other Leaf’s that were DCFC’d a hand full of times going intercity travel and have a SOH of 85% and 2 bars missing. These are MY2018 cars.

John Ray

Would love to see a picture of these 2018 Leafs with one bar gone. Skeptical.

William

Sceptic #2 right behind you J-Ray, in the growing line, I would love to see the #2 bar missing 2018 Leaf (with under 50k miles of course).

William

A MY2018 Leaf with “2 bars missing”, from driving over the last 6 months (approximately), is going to be an obvious candidate for a battery replacement/repair (after losing the #9 capacity bar) under the Nissan 33% degradation warranty (8yr(96mo.) /100kmi.).

bro1999

That sounds even worse than the early Gen 1 Leafs!

Will

So the new leafs are losing bars? Or you mean 17 models cause the 18s came out this calendar year

Henrik

This simply has to be BS. My 40kWh Leaf (MY18, made in December) has lost something like 1% in 7500 miles. I must have charged it 150 times. (I don’t recall the exact figure from LeafSpy.) I always plug it in, even if near full. But fine, I’ll believe your degradation figures if the cars are in a hot climate and have gone tens times as far as mine. Otherwise you’re just spewing FUD.

SparkEV BoltEV

I don’t have a Leaf, but I often encounter them at DCFC charging at 20 kW at 75%, plugged in when they already have 70%. Once free charging period runs out, that 22 kW (far less on average) will translate to costing more than 15 MPG gas car. It may not matter if you charge at home at night (cool temp) exclusive for commute use, but most people use their cars for bit more, even the “commute cars”. That’s why I cannot recommend Leaf.

But if you’re looking for commuter, there are better options, SparkEV being the best (obviously) as well as IoniqEV. If commute is short enough for Volt’s AER, even Volt would work well.

William

The Clarity PHEV is keeping up the Volt in sales numbers and popularity, in the last month or so.

SparkEV BoltEV

You are right! I keep forgetting Clarity because of their FCEV and crappy BEV versions. But PH version is quite capable. My brother has one!

William

The Helpful Honda Folks, got at least one out of three Clarity “Green Machines”, to be worthy of recommendation!

Will

@Spark does your brother love his Clarity

Robert Weekley

Clarity seems to have found a good balance between PHEV Range on the Battery, and on Vehicle size, and the 6 miles shorter range than the new Volt, is compensated by having a bigger car! Plus, it is about 9 miles more range than the 1st Gen Volt, which was likely its design goal reference! It will be interesting to see if it gets a bigger Battery Range come 2019 or 2020! Giving it 60 to 65 Miles AER would be a good strong point for the PHEV Category, and nearly close to the Clarity BEV’s 85 Miles Range! It stillstill would not cover the both way commute of many of my Ontario coworkers, though, which would need 180-220 Kms (110/140 Miles).

Will

With BEV Clarity can you get greater range like 115AER miles if you put it eco mode like the i3

Will

Ionic is vaporware and Spark EV is discontinued.

John Doe

To bad with the ionic, as it is a really OK car. And you can really feel it is energy efficient just by driving it.
It was one of the EVs I thought about buying, but had to wait about 6 month for it. That was a deal breaker.

They could have sold many of the Ionic model for sure.
Maybe when it comes in a facelifted version, they may increase battery range AND be able to make more then a sample.

SparkEV BoltEV

Yup, Ioniq is pretty good. I was considering getting it, but when Bolt on sale was only about $2K more, I couldn’t justify half the range.

menorman

Not vaporware, just not focused on the American market for the limited supply that they had available.

Ricardo

Yeah, they’re not really focused anywhere except, maybe, South Korea

Will

So is the Clarity. I’m waiting for mid size Phev that will get 62 All electric range 50mpE on highway and 250 gas range. Or flip it to 135 AER and 100 gas range PHEV. I will be first in line

eject

Anybody complaining

menorman

Right there with you. I happen to own a 2013 Leaf with 11 bars, it’s my only car, it does not have a CHAdeMO port, and I don’t have charging at home. The car is fine for most of our needs and if we had access to home charging, the times that have really been annoying would’ve been fine.

Robert Weekley

What kind if home can’t offer charging? Apartment Building, or Condo Tower? Even a Townhouse shold be able to handle this.

Mark.ca

If they offer the $10k discount before the introduction of the long range model later this year or next you can count me as one of the fools.

William

Many more will join you, when the “$10k discount”, on the 2018 Leaf “later this year or next”, finally arrives!

Another Non TMS Leaf Fools Errand, will gladly be welcomed by many mild climate/weather commuters, who want to drive their annual mileage costs down significantly further.

Will

Yelp trading in my 1st gen volt if they take 10k off of the leaf before tax credit.now the I transfer to a job closer, my 24 miles commute is not bad compare to my 56 miles so 120v charging won’t be bad

John

I feel for suckers that plopped down money on a Bolt and now regret the decision in the form of negative commenting at EV forums.

Troy

An extra 20kWh is not worth even just $1000 to me. 40kWh gets me to and from work, anything else is an Enterprise rental.

Granted, the resale value will be higher on a 60kWh Leaf vs. the 40 I got last month, but after incentives it’s going to cost me $15,800, can’t complain too much.

pjwood1

2018 Leaf still perfect for the next ASU study, to prove EV depreciation is extreme, and we should all just stick with Corollas.

Franky the Pierre

I guess I must be the chosen one then!

William

2018 Nissan Leaf is ok to Lease, if you want an EV today (as in right now), and the Chevy Bolt narrow seats are somehow a deal breaker.

Lease the Leaf 2018,
Buy the Bolt!

SparkEV BoltEV

Leasing Leaf is fine if not for DCFC issue, especially in hot weather. If one doesn’t plan to use much DCFC, Leaf lease is fine. Unfortunately, free charging is baked into Leaf price, so not wasting time at DCFC means throwing away free charging cost that you pay for.

menorman

Define “much”. The big problem the 2018s are having is when they’re hitting multiple charging sessions in a day. But for anyone who only needs one, it absolutely is a great option.

Robert Weekley

Probably, if using the DCFC after driving, if the car was parked and let cool for 30 to 60 minutes first, then the fast charge completed, and the car cooled for another 30 minutes, it would be OK, but then, what would be the point of 20 to 50 kW fast charging? Any way to get chilled air to the battery pack as is, in some aftermarket solution?

antrik

I think the point is that this is “only” a problem for long trips; while it works fine for people charging their commuter car on a public charger for free to save on electricity costs…

Jason

It takes a hell of a lot more time than 30-60min for the heat to dissipate out of a Leaf battery. In fact, let it sit is the slowest way to cool the battery, it relies on air flowing around it, so driving at a reasonable speed (not 70mph!) is actually the best way to cool it as the air is forced around the battery.

Sustainable2020

No sale period….get a great lease deal on either leaf as inevitably there will be some recall and/or significant trouble spots on both of these first year production leafs. A few years from now such problems will be greatly lessened as with all vehicle models.

Stan the Man

I couldn’t wait, I bought my 2018 Leaf in March, I needed to commute to work, now I’m gonna wait and try to sell it and get the 60kwh battery instead.

Get Real

About time!

Mark

100 kW CHAdeMO charging is pretty useless with a complete lack of 100 kW chargers. I doubt if anyone will invest in these chargers with only one big manufacturer still using CHAdeMO. 175 kW CCS chargers are becoming more common here in Europe, it’s a shame Nissan doesn’t take advantage of this.

bro1999

Electrify America is building 100+ kW CHAdeMO stations. Unfortunately, 3x as many 150+ kW CCS stations are being built by EA.

Pushmi-Pullyu

Many or most of those using public EV chargers in the U.S. report that most chargers have both CCS and CHAdeMo plugs. If that continues to be the case, then it seems safe to assume that when the CCS charger is upgraded, the CHAdeMo will be too.

I do hope Nissan will eventually switch to CCS, which seems to be becoming the One True Standard for EV charging (Tesla being the obvious other exception), but it may be a bit premature to pronounce the Leaf obsolete just because it’s stuck with CHAdeMO.

eject

At least for the European market. The US is a bit ambiguous in that regard. In Japan Chademo will stay. Porsche will install and use Chademo in Japan. A Mercedes EQC has been spied in Germany charging of a Chademo which certainly is testing for Japan since it will ship with CCS in Europe.

The standard should fit the proliferation of the market since CCS, GB/t and Chademo are of very similar capability.

Robert Weekley

CHAdeMO is still the only real worldwide, same physical plug everywhere, “Standard!” Tesla uses 2 different plugs, J1772 uses 2 different plugs, and China has another plug of its own, too! So, yes, having one standard is a good thing, but CCS is not there, either: different plugs in Europe vs North America!

Davek

Amen. I’ve got nothing against CHAdeMO, but CCS is dominant in Europe and N.A. and should be mandatory on new cars there.

As it is, I’m still stunned that there aren’t any adapters between CCS and CHAdeMO available.

Magnus H

There are 175 kW CHAdeMO chargers out there.

Will

They popping up here in the states

Ocean Railroader

I like CHAdeMO due to the fact that if you drive your EV from the US to Japan or though Russia or Europe the CHAdeMO chargers would remain the same while with CSS you have two different types.

I wounder would any one get upset if they came out with a CSS to CHAdeMO convert or better yet have CHAdeMO and CSS on the same car door.

Robert Weekley

The Leaf should be the first to do that, but Mitsubishi also could do that!

Mark

Really, who is driving from the US to Japan or Europe?? And good luck driving your EV through Russia, any idea how big the country is and how few chargers they have?

tm2

Some parts of Europe are full of second hand US spec cars. Including same Leafs in Norway. The same with Japan spec cars on the other side of the world.

Now imagine how it will look like when rechargeable cars will get more mainstream. You will have inevitable mess of 3-4 incompatible plugs, or trade barriers for such cars. Retrofitting 100+ kW 400-800v power outlet on a car is expensive and risky proposition, it is not your 3 kW dumb household outlet adapter.

Howard Marks

80eDays have driven through Russia. EVERYWHERE in Russia you can find the 3 Phase Mennekes at commercial and industrial buildings it is used for a variety of purposes.

Howard Marks

Furthermore CHAdeMO is only a tech standard while CCS is a cartel that wants to have a monopoly so they will get everyone hooked and then make people pay petrol prices to charge.

Robert Weekley

Nissan sell Leafs in its Home Country of Japan, first, just like Tesla selling Model 3’s in ITS home country of USA first! Japan has more CHAdeMO stations per road mile, quite likely, than USA has Supercharger Stations, or Europe has CCS Stations!

Someone out there

Great news!

CCIE

When is Nissan going to accept that chademo is dead in the US and starting using CCS on Leafs delivered here?

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

Aren’t there more Chad’s than CCS?

I haven’t come across a DCFC that only had CCS. They have always had both CHAD & CCS.
A few years ago there were plenty of Chad without CCS.

Chad also came out with a faster standard: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1104346_chademo-dc-fast-charging-to-run-at-up-to-150-kilowatts-starting-in-2017
All they have to do now is upgrade/retrofit existing stations.

CCIE

If the US deployed-charger count hasn’t turned toward CCS yet, it will very soon. All of the new electrify america deployments only have a single Chademo. One near me was 7CCS + 1Chademo.

Nissan will have to convert at some point because the number of working Chademo chargers will begin to falloff (aside from Nissan dealers). So, why deploy more cars that will become obsolete as Chademo fades away? Every additional one they ship is another owner who will be annoyed in the future when they can’t find anywhere to quick charge.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

Or an adapter for Chad to CCS is sold…….

I wonder if Tesla is working on a Tesla to CCS adapter?

Mikael

The 80’s called and want a Bluray adapter to their Betamax. I’d prefer to have bluray straight away and not through and adapter, what about you?

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

That’s a stupid analogy.

Adapters exist for….
Tesla to J1772 so Tesla can charge on public EVSE’s.
https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/vehicle-accessories/model-s_x_3-sae-j1772-charging-adapter.html

Tesla to Chademo so Tesla can charge on Chademo.
https://shop.tesla.com/ca/en/product/vehicle-accessories/model-s_x-chademo-adapter.html

J1772 to Tesla Destination EVSE’s.
https://shop.quickchargepower.com/JDapter-Stub-Tesla-Charge-Station-Adaptor-JDPTRSTB.htm

The 2000’s called and wants you to wake thefik up.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

Well that’s really Suckie.

Robert Weekley

Nissan uses J1772 type 1 plugs in USA/Canada, & I think in Japan, too; what about European Leafs: is it type 2/Menekes plugs there? Could that spot, beside the CHAdeMO port be turned into full CCS ports? Then they would have/offer Both!

CCIE

Apparently the CCS standard doesn’t allow for adapters. Probably why we haven’t seen Tesla release one.

John Doe

Tesla could if the would, as they are part of the CCS development group.

Will

No they not they are going to have both

Pushmi-Pullyu

Reminds me of the BetaMAX vs. VHS “war”. BetaMAX got a good start, but was overtaken and eventually made obsolete by VHS. CHAdeMO may similarly be made obsolete by CCS.

William

All you need is Stormy Daniels to do some promotion for the CCS standard, and CHAdeMO will fade away, just like the BetaMAX standard did, when the Adult Entertainment Industry went all in, with its almost exclusive use of the VHS standard, back in the day.

Howard Marks

xxx producers also supported LASERDISC.

Howard Marks

EXCUSE ME !! Betamax became Betacam which became DigiBeta the single most successful broadcast tape format in the history of television ! SO BITE ME !!

SparkEV BoltEV

I know of only one 50 kW CCS only charger, and that’s in Fashion Valley Mall in San Diego. But there are many 25kW CCS only charger, probably single phase sourced, while most (all?) dedicated Chademo are 50 kW.

Mark

Here in the Netherlands it’s the other way around. CHAdeMO is 50 kW maximum, even for the very few newly installed chargers. More and more 175 kW CCS chargers are popping up however. As far as I know CCS chargers under 50 kW are very rare here.

Magnus H

FastNed says they will upgrade CHAdeMO when availabel. The standard is pretty new.

Robert Weekley

VW dealer by me uses 20-25 kW “Small Box” wall mounted CCS! GM Dealer, I think does the same. Ford Dealer, I don’t see CCS yet.

CCIE

As electrify america gets going you’re going to see a ton of 50/150/350kw CCS locations pop up.

Robert Weekley

Maybe only a “Half Ton!” Tesla IS putting in a “Ton” of Superchargers, though!

Will

It’s not dead there in Nissan dealers l, ChargePoint, EVGo

David Green

Pretty awesome, bye bye Bolt sales…

bro1999

I’m sure GM isn’t gonna sit on their hands. I bet GM will do a similar refresh for the 2020 Bolt that the ’19 Volt just got (increased charging speed, more creature comforts, etc…)

Ziv

This. Nissan has been lagging behind and now they have thrown down a gauntlet, at least on charge rate. Kind of. I really hope GM responds by upping their game ASAP. Unfortunately, that may be July of next year. But if the 2020 Bolt comes out in July with 150 kW charge rate and a bit better taper point, that would be cool. Realistically these faster charge rates are more future proofing than they are for use today, but it is all good. I can’t wait to see 175 kW chargers proliferating in the wild…
But I have to admit that 100 kW charging is a step less than outstanding. 1.6 C Rate is nice.

Will

They should put power bigger seats. Sunroof

menorman

The Bolt doesn’t need a refresh (well except to add ACC), it needs a price cut. While sure, a lot of Bolts are moving below MSRP, so does the Leaf. Plus, the Leaf will have tax credits longer.

David Green

Exactly right… Bolt is a well engineered car, its just not attractive and has cheap interior, and seats. To fix all that is wrong would be too expensive… I say remove some content and drop the price… Then, do not make the same mistakes on the Buick that is coming on the Bolt chassis.

Will

No it won’t just make the premier a mid trim and make a new premier trim with better options and make the LT trim discounted at 33k and the Mid at the old LT pricing

ziv

David, everything about the Bolt is compact Chevy car, except the drivetrain/battery. The car looks bug eyed and silly, like a sonic. The interior is cheap and has poor ergonomics. The dash is cheap and the seats uncomfortable.
But the drivetrain is really good, quick acceleration, reasonably good handling and a very nice AER.
So you are buying a cheap compact Chevy for $35k, less the credit. But the BEV part is pretty good.

Will

Bolt with SuperCuise tech and charge 5k for it

David Green

Actually, GM has 2 vehicles coming on the Bolt platform that I expect will be revealed at some point this year and start production in the 2nd half next year. The Bolt needs too much work to make it worthy of the price, better to start over from the skateboard up…

Robert Weekley

And yet it took GM some 5+ years to put 6.6 kW AC charging on the Volt, and no CCS or CHAdeMO on it yet! Another 5+ years for that? Mitsubishi had DCFC on their PHEV SUV alrady for some time, over 2 years now!

Bob

I have a Mitsu Outlander PHEV. I tried the DCFC once just to see. Even from empty, the charging rate throttled down so soon that it was basically useless. After about 20 minutes charging, I got a little over 6kWh which cost me over $6 ($0.30/min + sales tax). They would have been better to provide 6.6kW L2 instead of the paltry 3.3kW they put in it.

Brian

We’ll see. But the Bolt is due for a mid-cycle refresh in 2020. I, for one, am hoping they respond with a solid 100+kW charging and maybe 250-300HP.

bro1999

I’m still holding out hope for a Bolt SS…or at least an AWD Bolt. Probably in vain though…

Brian

What I wouldn’t give for a Bolt SS!

mzs112000

Maybe, take the Camaro, put in a Bolt EV battery(maybe add more modules, 80kWh should be enough), performance wheels/tires, better brakes, better suspension, dual-motor(2 BoltEV motors, each one with a different reduction gear ratio), lastly let’s raise top speed to 160mph. That could be an electric muscle-car.
And whereas the high-end gas Camaro is the ZL1, they can call it the Camaro EV1!

Brian

I can imagine GM wouldn’t want to use the term “EV1” for political reasons. Right or wrong, people can get very emotional over that name.

But the rest of the car sounds fantastic. I’ve always liked the look of the Camaro. With the guts of 1.5 Bolts under the hood, it would be great!

David Green

There will be an AWD version, not sure if it will be Buick or Chevrolet.

antrik

I’m not sure you should hope for a mid-cycle refresh, considering that GM wants to introduce an entirely new (and actually profitable) EV platform in a not too distant future…

theflew

The big question for the 60kWh Leaf is price and at what volume?

bro1999

I bet the price will start very similar to the Bolt’s starting price.

Troy

Rumor is that it’s SL only. SL is a couple thou too rich for me, I’m an S guy.

Jason

If it uses LG Chem batteries, considering every other EV that uses these batteries then the volume will be most likely very low. If they had squeezed 60kWh and added Active TMS to their AESC batteries, then I think volume won’t be an issue.

eject

It is also going to be good competition to the Model 3 with the reduced tax credit. It probably will go further than the short range version while being cheaper even before tax credits.

antrik

At 225 miles, it would have virtually the same range. I’m sure pretty much everyone will consider the Model 3 a way more desirable car in all kinds of ways. The Leaf would have to be much cheaper for most people to actually consider it an alternative…

Pushmi-Pullyu

Good to know that InsideEVs “inside” sources confirm that the new, larger battery capacity Leaf will indeed have an active TMS!

Will Nissan finally have a BEV that EV enthusiasts like me can whole-heartedly recommend? Let’s hope so, but we’ll have to wait for reviews before we can be sure.

Go Nissan???

Magnus H

Well, the “inside” wasn’t more than copying a ten day old blog at PushEV.

Brian

The 2019 Leaf is everything I hoped the 2018 would be. It’s too late for me, but I hope this sells very well!

Gabriel Rheault

Let hope that the leaf 40kwh has the same thing (minus the 60kwh battery)

Will

I hope the 40Kw wil get discounted heavily. Someone might get one for $22k with high speed charging without $7500 tax credit. Business owners should get them for thier fleets

Joe

I hope the 2019 Leaf release creates incredibly discounted 2018 Leafs. Then I want to lease one for myself and another for my daughter. The more significant improvements on the new model the better the deal on the old models remaining in stock. Im hoping for under $100/ month lease after CA rebate.
I had a 2011 Leaf that was a great car. It had the most comfortable seats and was impressively powerful in city driving despite being the ugliest car ever made.

menorman

Nissan already has $2k on the hood nationally plus another $3k through PG&E, so the cheap leases are coming.

William

Many are waiting on the upcoming cheap Leaf Lease, because they knew through past experience, that they would be arriving later this summer/fall.

scott franco

100+kW charging is long overdue outside Tesla. Seeing an M3 go from 50 to 250 miles in 20 minutes on 114kW is the gold standard of EVs, and it it takes thermal management. Even with TM, it appears most of the charge taper is due to rapid heating of the battery, meaning that the Leaf cannot play this game without it.

Will this bring Leaf back into reliance? I have driven both an M3 and a Leaf and I would have to say it would take way more than this. Those Chademo stations need time to convert to 100+kW charging, and even with that a lot of stations are out of service, and they are woefully behind on total number of stations. Finally, being able to see what stations are occupied in real time on the map is a hard feature for Tesla competitors to beat.

So advantage to the twitter maniac for now.

antrik

The taper results mostly from internal resistance, which is an inherent property of each cell type. Heat build-up is a side effect of resistance; but even with perfect cooling, the battery simply won’t take more power past a certain charge state, unless you increased the voltage to unhealthy levels.

BoltUp

If this comes with ATM at $35,000, Chevy better find some cost cuts on the Bolt to stay in the game.

Mikael

Why, oh why would they go with Chademo? I understand that they will use Chademo for Japan but it would not be wise to keep it for Europe (or even the US).

Someone should tell Nissan that flogging a dead horse is not the best idea…

Troy

Chademo is great. Let all the i3 assholes and Bolt-driving Lyft monopolizers fight it out for the CCS, leaving the Nissan pump for me.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

lol, Right?!?!?!?

Ocean Railroader

I really would love to see Tesla or GM add insult by upgrading their Bolt or Model 3 to a 80 kilowatt battery for the same price.

It would only take a 20% improvement in battery power or a 20% cost decline for this to happen.

antrik

“Only”.

Jason

If you consider the $9k upgrade for Model 3 LR battery is at least 2x what it should be (consider the expensive, old 24kWh Leaf replacement battery is $5,500) then Tesla had plenty of room to reduce that price when competition increases or their demand drops off. LR is great, but $9k is a bitter pill to swallow knowing old 2012 tech was almost half that price and Tesla supposedly has the cheapest battery price.

Leptoquark

I’m trying to understand what the 0.75kWh refers to. If it’s at 32% of 60kWh, that’s 19.2 kWh SOC so far. But, it’s been charging for 44 minutes, which is 0.75 hr, so assuming 102 kW during that period, that’s 76.5 kWh of energy delivered. Clearly, it hasn’t been at 102kW the whole 44 minutes….. So, what does 0.75kWh refer to? My guess is it’s the initial SOC.

Brian

Or could it be that 44 minutes is the remaining time from a 45 minute session? 1 minute at 102kW would be 1.7kWh. So it could be rounding to the next lowest minute, or it could include a ramp-up time.

Magnus H

It has been charging for 44” (seconds) and it has transferred 0.75 kWh, which amounts to 60 kW average. Maybe it takes a couple of seconds to ramp to 102 kW?

Brian

So in Europe ” is shorthand for seconds? Does ‘ mean minutes?

Magnus H

I don’t know how Europe uses ‘ and “.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minute_and_second_of_arc

Leptoquark

Ah, of course, that makes sense. Thanks!

Dan

This is great! I’ll check it out when it reaches showroom! Leaf cabin is considered more comfortable one but the lack of coolant based TMS is a death knoll ringing all the time. After this Nissan should make it into Rogue body. More competition the better! Mercedes MBC is coming out next year I believe.

Alex

this test was made with some unlocked
40 kWh battery not with 60 kwh

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

It was a “Rooted”/”Jail Break” Leaf?……..lol

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

Anyone else notice the TM3 is listed as a 50KWh battery pack?

Yep. Interesting right?

antrik

Not sure what your point is?…

kubel

If Nissan gets the timing right, they will release the 60kWh LEAF right around the time the Model 3 loses part of its tax credit. And with no vaporware $35,000 model to be seen and at least a good two or three quarters of tax credits left with Nissan, I can see a lot of potential buyers taking back their deposits and going with Nissan. I’ll be one of them. I can’t wait to get out of this Volt lease and back into a LEAF. LEAF was the best car I ever had. Practical, durable, solid build quality, reliable- only the battery sucked. With liquid cooled LG Chem cells, this will be an awesome car. Nissan should be thanking EVTEC for this leak. Great marketing.

EVShopper

Maybe. But i think people shopping for a quick small premium sports sedan, are not necessarily cross-shopping for a small slower hatchback/wagon.

Yay4EVcredits

EVShopper—certainly the case for some, but the people wanting a model 3 want an economical EV sedan that’s not a model S. So a ’19 leaf is an easy sell IMO.

jim stack
If QUOTE= thermally-managed 60-kWh LEAF , doesn’t mean liquid cooled they will still have problems in HOT areas. The LEAF and KIA SOUL EV i have leased all died within a year to 2 years to be a noticeable loss of range which wasn’t great to start with. The battery is about half the value of the car. The LEAF was great but the battery was very poor. EVen in cooler areas I have heard of loss that is not acceptable when others for the same price will last 20+ years. In FACT I went with a friend who has 2 BARS lost and the range drops 10-20 miles in the first mile too. Nissan would not test the battery since it was over 3 years old. The capacity warranty is 5 years 60K miles and he only has 18K miles. They want $140 to test and it still goes by their rule of you have to lose 4 BARS to be covered for a replacement fixed battery. 4 BARS is about 40% lose. All other vehicles like Tesla, FORD ,CHEVY and FIAT are 20% loss. What a sorry vehicle. And they were the biggest selling in the World.
Richard Giddens

How much are Nissan Leaf’ maintenance costs projected to be and does Nissan support include shop manuals availability? Tesla wont sell shop manuals and we hear there are Tesla mx costs.
Bolt EV is better deal.

Richard Giddens

I love my Bolt EV. Nissan EV dream…I wonder if they have internet, connectivity of car to smart phone remote car apps, , front collision detection warning and stopping along with rear radar collision warning like Bolt EV has. Nissan Leaf sounds kinda weak and sucky playing catchup to Tesla and GM…Chaedmo is dead, long live ccs.

VTLeaf

This quotes a Nissan exec saying it’ll have 200hp. No clarification on if it’ll arrive this year or early next.
https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2018/07/long-range-nissan-leaf-e-plus-coming-2019-will-200-hp.html

Vegan001

This is the car I am wayting for. Can’t wayt for it! That only if thermal management will be included. I have seen owners of previous models saying that battery degradation is just a myth but I want to be sure I will get maximum from my 40.000 investment.

Vegan001

So no LG?

Don Zenga

Still the Leaf is the sales champion.
Please eliminate Ford Focus-EV from all comparison since its discontinued.
Even VW eGolf is sold only as a compliance car and its sales are going down.

Yes Nissan is going big with Leaf in 2019 since Tesla is ramping up the Model-3 and also the Standard version @ 220 miles will match Leaf’s upgraded 60 KWh version with 220 miles. Lets see whether they meet at price point.

tt

2017 and 2018 Tesla Model 3 with MSRP at $35K doesn’t exist. Please provide real data.

sunindra

If Tesla never launch the $35,000 M3, will the 2019 Leaf fill the void

cktegr

The Fact that you still reference a 220 mile Range Model 3 makes this post useless. Model 3 220 miles Does Not Exist. When it does, then you can start referencing it.