2018 Nissan LEAF Specs, Prices Leaked


Will a 40 kWh battery, lower price tag pull buyers away from the Tesla Model 3?

When the 2018 Nissan Leaf is officially revealed about a month from now, it may not have many secrets left to spill. We’ve already gotten a pretty good look at the exterior styling and Nissan themselves have told us about its regen-heavy e-pedal driving experience and its Pro-Pilot assist autonomous tech. Now it appears we have some of the most relevant specifications: price, battery size, and motor output.

2018 Nissan Leaf spied at Oppama Plant

According to a configurator for the updated EV published by Autobytel, the 2018 Leaf will be a good bit more powerful than the outgoing version. If accurate, we can expect this latest electric lump to put out 147 horsepower and 236 pound-feet of torque, up from 107 hp and 187 lb-ft in the current model, so the difference should be quite visceral.

Of course, the heart of any electric vehicle right now is its battery and at first, at least, the Leaf with come capable of holding 40 kWh of jolt juice. It’s been speculated from a spy shot of the dash display that could offer as much range as 165 miles, but since that sounds a bit optimistic for this leaked spec (by around a dozen miles or so), we’ll have to wait for the exact EPA figure to be sure. Regardless, this is less range than either the Tesla Model 3 (220 miles) or the Chevy Bolt (238 miles). But, then again, it will be cheaper.

As it has in the past, the Leaf will come in S, SV, and SL trim levels, with the price tags reading $29,990, $32,490, and $36,200 respectively. This makes it a decent value play for those who don’t necessarily “need” the extra range of its competitors. Take the top trim SL with its heated seats and other fancy doodads, tag on the tech package, with features like Pro Pilot assist, Intelligent Cruise, and Automatic Emergency braking, and the price tops out at a relatively modest $38,795. Will it be a compelling enough value to keeps the sales crown in the Nissan trophy case? Probably not, but perhaps the coming bigger battery option — rumored to be in the 60 kWh range — will at least take the fight to the Chevy Bolt.

We’ve got screen captures of the other dimensions below, so check them out, and then let us know how you think the new Leaf stacks up value-wise in the comments section below.

Update:  It appears Nissan might not have been so pleased with Autobytel and is trying to put the genie back in the bottle, as the 2018 specs and configurator have now been removed.

Leaked specs for the 2018 Nissan Leaf

Source: Autobytel via Push EVs

Categories: Nissan

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243 Comments on "2018 Nissan LEAF Specs, Prices Leaked"

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Some / many of the dimensions, seem to be identical to the current Leaf, so I don’t know if they are accurate. The only ones I checked that are a tiny different – are the overall width and height.

We’ll see in a bit less than a month!

Current Leaf New Leaf

Overall width 69.7″ 70.5″

Overall height 61.0″ 61.4″

So, 0.7″ wider and 0.4″ taller. Barely significant, if at all.

Headroom, hiproom, legroom front and rear are all within an inch of last generation as well as cargo capacity.

Turning radius is close, too. New Leaf is a little heavier.

Bottom line: 2018 Leaf basically the same body as the last generation with things better where it counts: more power, longer range, more conventional styling, updated electronics and the same price.

What is interesting is comparing it to the last gen Leaf it is a clear winner — a lot more car for the same price.

Comparing it to the BoltEV, though, Bolt has a lot more range, more power and a little less trunk for basically the same price range after dealer discounts today.

In other words a product winner but not a leader in the market in this price range. If they drop the price it may be a winner.

Don’t count the discounts 🙂

Do count the discounts but do it for both…
You can buy the current gen Leaf 10k under MSRP before any tax credits…
You will probably be able to buy the new Leaf 5k under MSRP within a year if not 6 months…

Yeah that was my point; I’m guessing 2018 Leaf will be a winner after they start dealer discounting.

The last wildcard in this action-packed 2018 EV race is whether Hyundai can do a price-competitive 200+ mile Ioniq.

We’ll see! Very exciting time!

ummmm i dont think you can get a Bolt for $29,990. Even after dealer discounts. That would have to be an $8,000 dealer discount

compared to BoltEV

New Leaf—BoltEV

front headroom


overall Ht

overall width


rear leg room


front leg room


overall L


rear head room 37.3–39.9

wheelbase 106.3–102.4

bigger than boltEV except back seat legroom not so good in new Leaf

no luggage numbers. Nissan may have the rear seat a little forward to open up more room in back.

People cry bloody murder about the VOLT’s rear seta legroom (34.7 inches), so the fact the new Leaf will have 1.2 inches LESS rear legroom than even a Volt is shocking (if true).

yeh Bro,
GM really did their homework on interior room with the BoltEV. Plus I bet money the 40 kwh Leaf pack will be the uncooled one from AESC.

Plus I bet the 60 kwh Leaf will be a little pricey.

I think a big difference is how bench-like cars such as Bolt, i3, and Leaf are, compared to Volt/ELR. The Volt’s front occupant is lower to the ground, which means outstretched legs and the seat ultimately going back. So, you could have the same legroom spec, yet more rear space in the higher bench cars.

I’m 6′, and at about 8 years old my kids knees were into the seatback. That said, nothing compared to the coupe-like feel of Volt/ELR. It reminded me of the 944. Heeh.

We own a Leaf and test drove a Volt this weekend. I even sat in the back on the test drive. The Volt is much closer to the ground and the and the back feels much more cramped. That center hump is unfortunate. I also own a 944, so I know what you mean. At 46, it’s tough getting out with my dignity in tact.

I read a great article here recently.


It discussed how GM is wedded to the idea that their electric cars have to be small and look unusual.

I have never read an informed criticism of the Volt II that focused on the drive train, what the makes the car distinctive. The criticism always focuses on the platform.

The Voltec drive train is genius, but there are a lot of people like you who don’t want to drive a Chevy Cruze. GM could put the Voltec drive train into any of its platforms, and current rumors are that they will in a few years.

I am a former Leaf owner and I now have a 2016 Volt. The ONLY aspect of the Leaf I preferred was that it was easier to get in and out of. I vastly prefer the Voltec PHEV approach over the Leaf’s pure EV drive train.

I don’t disagree. True story – the day I leased my Leaf in October of 2012, I drove both it and the Volt. I wanted the Volt. The truth is, I was afraid of going all electric. The Chevy dealer wouldn’t deal and Nissan would. I got my SL for $269/mo. and $0 down.

Fast forward to today. The problem isn’t with the Votec, it’s with the body they put it in. I would gladly take a Cruz or even a Malibu with that drivetrain. If the Volt weren’t a Volt, what segment would it compete in and how would it fair? Not well I am guessing.

I wish GM would mate the voltec with the diesel GMC Canyon with About 50miles all electric range. The electric could help with the off-the-line speed, the diesel would provide enough torque for respectable towing and decent efficiency for long distance travel. It would be the perfect vehicle for me.

I don’t understand why you are comparing a Volt (hybrid) with a LEAF (EV).

You appear to be suffering from InsideEV’s problem of not being able to understand the difference – which is frustrating for those of us who do!

@Martin Winlow

The Volt is NOT a “hybrid”. It is a plug-in hybrid PHEV. This is not a small distinction. Hybrids, like the original Prius, are little more than very low powered gasoline cars with tiny batteries that provide minimal assist.

The Volt is much more like the Leaf (I have owned both) than it is the Prius. For most people, 90% of the time there is no difference because you drive on pure electricity. The only times I use the gasoline backup is when I go on long highway trips or I forget to plug in (which happens surprisingly often).

It is not that InsideEV and the rest of us don’t “understand” the difference between an EV and a PHEV. Rather, it is that after driving both we realize that they are very similar types of cars. This is particularly true of the Volt whose pure electric range is long enough that you rarely need to use gasoline at all.

Uncooled battery is a deal-breaker.

2017 Leaf 30kWh – drive a bit in summer, stop to charge and the batter temp goes up next to RED.

So you can forget about long distance drive, charge, drive charge. Unless you don’t care about your battery life.

Agreed. But if you dont fast charge past 80% the effect is not as bad (if that’s any consolation).

What about the weight; if we’re gonna go with the source material, they say it’ll weigh 4453 lbs .. wtf ?!


Maybe it’s a typo and they meant 3453 ?

That’s GVWR (max possible load it can carry). The actual curb weight is 1k less.

2018: 3.433 lbs (1.557 kg)
2017: 3.323 lbs (1.507 kg)

There will be BOLT Buyers Going to Nissan because Nissan is a Better Product.But Tesla M 3 buyers , highly doubt it . A few will naturally be lost. Nothing for Tesla to worry about..

“There will be BOLT Buyers Going to Nissan because Nissan is a Better Product.”

I’ve seen literally nothing to suggest this statement as being true. The Gen 1 Volt outperformed the Gen 1 Leaf in nearly every way, aside from the Leaf’s additional cargo space.

Acceleration, battery longevity, range degradation, regenerative braking, handling, etc. all went to the Volt.

Leaf won in the “class-action-lawsuits-due-to-range-degradation” category though.

Why would the new Leaf vs. the Bolt EV be any different?

In any case, I do hope the Leaf and Bolt EV are both successful, and that the new Leaf design engineers learned from the Gen 1 mistakes.

I’ve driven both and agree. The Bolt has some nice specs on paper, but in person it feels cheaper, smaller and more compromised.

If all you care about is range, get the Bolt. If you want value and can live with 150 miles of range, get the Leaf. If you want a badge and money isn’t a factor, get a Tesla.

Fully agree. I think that’s the best analysis I have read on this whole thread.

That being said, if the 40kwh battery pack is still not liquid cooled, then i have to give the overall advantage to the Bolt – even though I suspect the Nissan will otherwise be a better built car.

How is that agreeing? The other poster said Volt over LEAF. Now you say you agree, LEAF over Bolt?

I’ve driven both extensively. I had a LEAF for 3 years and I have a Bolt now.

The Bolt does not feel compromised, doesn’t feel cheaper (it feels more expensive) and in normal use (no more than 4 people) it doesn’t feel smaller.

Look at the LEAF. Look at the cheap buttons for the A/C. Look at the awful UI on the center stack. Look at the foot pedal parking brake. Look at the rear wheels, there are no wheelwell liners so any rocks kicked up by the rear wheels go “tic tic tic” against the body sheetmetal. Press that awful-feeling brake pedal on the LEAF.

No, the LEAF does not feel more expensive than the Bolt. Not by a long shot.

Well, since you brought it up, I actually replied to the wrong post. I was agreeing with L’amata.

As an owner of a Leaf I couldn’t disagree more. Leaf is plenty cheap inside. Volt is nicer and Bolt is practically the same as the Volt. e-Golf interior is much nicer.

Don’t get me wrong, I like my Leaf, but the only thing great about it was it was cheap. Ok, interior space also beats out the Volt (maybe also e-Golf), but Bolt has that too.

There is no way there is value in the Model 3 compared to the LEAF or Bolt. Unproven warranty fulfillment, with an immature service network from a company that may not exist in 3 years. Too much has gone wrong with the current Model S, it’s not a good bet.

I wouldn’t buy a Model 3, if I were you John. Besides, you’d have to wait a year or more to get it, if Tesla doesn’t go broke before then. If you have stock in Tesla, better sell it now, too.

I’m going to enjoy mine even more when remembering the huge crowd who expected Tesla to go broke, though.

Nissan has a better product?! By what measure? Price?

Yeah, only if “better” means cheaper. Well, we can expect the Leaf 2.0 to have more comfortable front seats than the Bolt EV… but then, that will be true of very nearly every other car.

“have more comfortable front seats than the Bolt EV… but then, that will be true of very nearly every other car.”

Have you actually driven the car and ride in the Bolt to make the judgement yourself or are you just passing the “heresay”?

heresay or heresy? 😉

I had a Bolt reserved, but cancelled the reservation due to the very poor comfort of the front seats–just too narrow. Fine for skinny teenagers; not so much for me.

I’d love to have the opportunity to even try a Chevy Bolt for seat size. I’m 6’2″+ and around 220 lb. I have a 2011 LEAF and it seems very spacious with upright seating – plenty of space in the back. Current LEAF sests are a bit on the flat on the back rest.

I tried sitting in the Volt and it wasn’t very comforable for me, and the back was pretty much foget-it for somebody my size. I’ve also tried the gas version of the Spark (EV unavailable here), and it was better, but felt very flimsy – lots of cheap plastic.

The new LEAF should be pretty good given the more upright seating position and no huge transmission-tunnel-like hump as the Volt has.

One car that doesn’t get much mention is the Prius Prime. One of my friends has a PP in the higher trim level: it is pretty comfortable and the center screen is beautiful and huge.

I am getting tired of waiting for Bolt, LEAF 2, Iconiq EV or Tesla 3 to actually be available within 100 miles of where I live. I just might have to go with the Prius Prime.

I’ve sat in the Bolt. I’m also 6’2 but weigh more than you. It’s fine. Some have complained about seat comfort, but I have not tested an extended ride. I own LEAF’s, the Bolt is very similar in access comfort- I detect a half inch less in perceived entry height.

We’re on the same page, Bill. We have three LEAF’s for in town driving, but will probably replace the old Buick road tripper with a Prius Prime, if we can get our hands on one. I sat in a new Prius and was really surprised a big feller could get in and out.

When you talk about seats in the BOLT ev you have to specify whether its the plain-jane Cloth seats (deemed comfortable by most of the riders in my car), or those horrible Leather seats that I find very uncomfortable, at extra cost. I was at the Volkswagen dealer yesterday in Rochester, and the E-GOLF is a fancier car than the BOLT besides having a bit more space. But the basic problem with the car is you can’t go anywhere. This dealership always coached new EV buyers to drive with a light pedal to maximize battery range, but that is against the religion of most from Rochester. The dealership (Dorschell) said most of the EV’s they sell come back to them within a year since the driver never gets the mileage they want, and (didn’t know this) THEY SAID VW doesn’t even make a plug-in-hybrid in the states any more (I thought Audi was selling some 15 mile AER thing – but whatever). They said the old VW hybrid came back for the same reason – not enough electric operation to bother with. The salesman’s opinion was that VW is basically not SERIOUS about EV’s and is only taking a “Me… Read more »

The base front seats of the Bolt suck.

I did not have to drive it to figure that out. The one with all the options had a better seat.

Yes. I hate the front seat of the Bolt. The plastic piece to left of seat is a pain to avoid when sitting down. First thing I noticed when I sat down. I’m glad I’m not the only to notice it.

Price and looks are important, and assuming Nissan executes, availability outside of CARB states will be far better, too. If the pricing is correct, the tech package (with ProPilot) is also much cheaper on the Leaf.

It may be barely enough for me to choose it over the Volt or Bolt, because I plan to just lease until The Model 3/Y has bugs worked out, so the less cash I burn, the better.

But yes, ignoring price, the Chevys are much better overall.

Not a better battery, and that’s a deciding factor for me.

All batteries are getting better, with each generation.

In what way? Better priced I suppose?

And for those who want more autonomous-ish features, the high trim leaf looks like it will be much more fully featured than the Bolt.

In every other way the Bolt is the ‘better’ all around EV I would say.

Although the Bolt, Leaf and Model 3 all make various concessions to hit their desired price points. So pick the vehicle based on the features and price you want. 🙂

Doubt it’ll pull away many TM3 buyers, but it will appeal to many people who are making their first foray into the EV market. Also, Nissan isn’t necessarily known as a luxury brand here in America and also certainly intend to compete globally, so pricing is paramount. In markets like Europe, the 40kWh offering will likely be enough for many buyers, especially when babied.

I have a TM3 reserved, but may cancel due to the iPad “instrument panel.” I prefer knobs and buttons to touch screens; even large touch screens. Why should I have to hunt and peck to simply turn the radio volume down? Give me a knob, always in the same place, and I can operate it with my eyes closed.

I expect this to turn off more than a few mainstream car buyers. Or maybe they will just use it as an excuse to cancel their reservation now that they realize they can’t afford this “affordable” Tesla.

Looks like a good deal. Many with first gen <100 mile BEV's understand that we do not need super long range, but would be nice to have a moderate amount more.

This hits a sweet spot in price and range and would work for many as their only car.

Many with first gen <100 mile BEV's understand that we actually need super long range for mass adaptation.

And there is only one thing in common with every EV driver so far no matter if you are looking at BEV's or PHEVs.

That only common thing is that they want more range, more range and….wait for it….more range.

According to one survey, 55% of plug-in EV drivers say they have never used en-route charging. That’s over half the market!

Nissan can probably do pretty well in the short term with aiming for, and capturing, the bottom end of the BEV market.

The problem is going to come as other EV makers improve their cars, if Nissan doesn’t improve their BEVs in any meaningful way other than better range. That’s a recipe for your product becoming obsolete, and facing a smaller and smaller segment of the market as time passes.

I’m still hoping against hope that the Leaf 2.0 will have an active battery pack thermal management system, despite predictions or rumors it won’t. I’m disappointed this news didn’t specify one way or the other. 🙁

This topic come over and over, so much in fact, that I think it’s overblown.
I’m sure that Nissan is very well aware of the battery degradation rate of its current fleet of Leaf running all around the world.
And since they don’t want to get burned twice, they may have come to a better TMS, even if it’s not liquid cooled.
It might be a lot better air cooled cabin temperature linked TMS, like the Soul Ev and Ionic or some kind of AC cooling like the i3.
Air cooling is use in many small and medium ICE with no problem.
ICE generate much more heat than charging a battery.
It’s cheap, reliable, and if done properly, efficient and functional.
They might just joint a better battery degradation warranty to alt any worry.

Djoni the problem with your comparison is that modern ICE’s LOVE to be over 200 degrees F while operating, while batteries love room temperature the best.

The fact that the 40 kwh battery’s cooling wasn’t noted by Nissan of course means that there isn’t any, since if there was anything decent Nissan would have bragged about it.

I for one am SHOCKED that some Nissan Leaf buyers have basically found their batteries are useless after only 22,000 miles of driving (which for me is only ONE YEAR of driving in my Bolt ev).

And all this after we’ve been promised revolutionary new Lizzard batteries or some other crap that turns out to be a whole lot of nothingness.

The only smart thing to do is pick up a USED LEAF for a song.

That’s the only thing Nissan Batteries are good for – making the USED LEAF’s price tag ‘affordable’.

Not sure where you get that 22,000 mile LEAF batteries are useless. I returned my 2013 LEAF after the end of the lease with over 40,000 miles on it and had suffered no significant battery degradation. LEAF batteries have improved since the 2011/12 cars significantly. I have been driving a 2016 LEAF for nearly a year and have about 15,000 miles with no sign of any reduction in range.

I put 36,000 miles on my 2013 Leaf with no battery degradation. I love the longer range on my 2017 Leaf. I don’t really need a 40 KW battery but I will probably upgrade when I can get a good ideal. My local dealer gives a loyalty discount that really helps.

Burned once, shy twice!
Just need to add, my 2012 Leaf with 141 000 km, (87 000 murican miles)is about to lose its second bar at 78% SOH with over 5 000 charge cycle.
So it hold much better than your example and I think Nissan look at it.
The same distance with a 40 kWh pack would have need 2 000 times less charge and probably with a higher SOC.
Just this fact would reduce degradation by 40%.
And where I live, hot temperature is a dream.
Many place have also moderate temperature that keep the battery a lot cooler.

Absolutely not true. I am unwilling to overspend for a feature I don’t need. It’s all about value, not any one metric.

To be completely honest, less than 100 mile range is somewhat limiting. It doesn’t come into play that often, but sometimes it does.

165 mile range is actually pretty decent, it’s just that the Bolt already sort of set the standard at 200.

I really think for mass adoption we need 200. I’ve sort of come around to the idea that being able to travel 500-600 miles or across country really isn’t that important. It’s very easy to rent a car in those circumstances, but I really don’t want to have to rent just to make a 100 mile round trip.

Domenick, how confident are you that Autobytel’s info is accurate? How much is still being hid?

A 60 kWh SL would be good at that price, but not at 40 kWh.

I agree. A base 40 kWh version that starts at only $5,000 less than a base M3 that has probably around 60 miles more range around 100 more hp, more front and back legroom and is wider would be a tough sell.

Except that you won’t have to pay an extra grand for any color except black, more $ to replace those ugly aero wheels, etc., and oh you can get it a hell of a lot sooner than the Model 3 and with full tax rebates.

Soooooo, there is a lot going for it. Not everyone needs the extra range or wants a sedan so this could be a very usable option.

All we know at this point is that 18″ wheels come standard with 19″ wheels as options. First there is no information to even indicate that the aero wheels are wheels or covers. Second there is no information to indicate if they are wheels that they are the only ones you can get standard.

Plus at least you get 18″ aluminum wheels standard rather than the horrible 16″ steel wheels that come standard with the current base Leaf and most likely the new one. How many thousands to replace those?

For once I agree with DJ.

The price for options on the TM3 will cause the price to rise steeply when buyers chose options they want. As I’ve noted in previous comments, the TM3 is aimed to compete on cost with such cars as the BMW 3-Series and the Audi A4, including pricey options.

But buyers will be able to get a well-optioned Leaf 2.0 for not all that much more than base price.

I think Nissan’s eventual plan is to replace the 40 kWh version with a 55-60 kWh version when they get the battery packs secured for a more long term contract with LG Chem. I think this was a stop-gap version intended for only a model year or maybe two at the worst.

I would agree with your statement when they offer a 55-60 kWh premium version with pro-pilot for around the base price of a M3. I think that was their goal but weren’t able to achieve it immediately at the termination of gen 1 production.

Nissan probably had their own timeline for getting the gen 2 Leaf out when Tesla moved the M3 production timeline up over a year. That forced Nissan to get the gen 2 Leaf out the door maybe a year earlier than originally planned.

Not that everything Nissan decides is based on Tesla’s timeline but it didn’t help that the Bolt suddenly appeared a year after reveal followed a year later by the M3.

Put another way, why buy a 40kWh SL Leaf for $36k and change when you can buy a 60kWh Bolt EV for the same price, which also has better acceleration and battery thermal management?

It seems like a no brainer.


Every single bolt available today at all the dealers I looked at we’re 44k or more….soooo.

There are several near me right near the starting MSRP point and even a bit lower with discounts, and I’m on the East Coast (non-EV friendly area) at that.

ProPilot, heated leather seats, heated steering wheel, more cargo, comfortable front seats. $5,000 less. Need more?

The Bolt EV has heater leather seats (front & rear) and a heated steering wheel. It also has MyLink, Onstar, regen on demand paddles, surround vision, etc., etc.

Yup, but on the Bolt, they will cost $5K more.

And for $5K more, you get even more in value. It’s all subjective though. Some people would never pay for leather seats in either car.

You forgot this is a FWD econo-hatch. There’s no comparison between this and any Telsa.

And yet, many people will compare them, simply because there are so few 100+ mile BEVs on the market.

Personally, I won’t take it as gospel until I read the gospel according to Nissan.

But, considering the Autobytel page just got pulled, I’m leaning toward legit.

Nissan firmly and decisively sprints into last place…

Or should I say they bolt into last place 🙂

Bolt into 3rd place (like Ussain Bolt just did).

Actually this places Nissan firmly in third place for the “affordable” EV segment.

No, the Honda Clarity Electric is firmly in last place.

I think the price is pretty good for what you get.

40 kWh is what most people here seemed to expect from the launch with a 60kWh later.

I know for a fact I could live with 150 miles of range. But I also know of several people who are current leaf owners that might be going for a Bolt now.

I do think the low price, autonomous features, decent range, and most importantly revamped styling will keep the Leaf competitive.

Clearly the Leaf will be extremely competitive with the subset of the market that does not do road trips. With the new range, it will handle any metro area in any weather condition, including unplanned diversions, something that was not true with the 24kWh and was marginally true with 30kWh.

A 40 kWh battery is probably optimal for this kind of use case. A 60 is just more money for very little capability most people will actually use for daily metropolitan driving.

The 60 would be better for road trips. But if road trips are important to you, you will go with Tesla for the supercharger network. Neither the Bolt nor the Leaf are good for general road trips, no matter if the have 60 kWh, because the charging infrastructure is so poor. Unless you already know that you will always drive within a particular corridor that does have decent fast charging infrastructure.

Personally, my road trips are exceptionally rare (last one over 300 miles was in 2005), so for people like me, spending less money on a car that also happens to be available right now is a pretty good proposition.

As I have a very diminished Leaf battery (now 54%) and hanging on to see what I can get (that’s RHD, which rules out the Bolt), I would worry that the 40Kwh over time wouldn’t have the capacity for “unplanned diversions”, especially if it is not cooled. I live in a hot place. Interesting though

Just curious, what RHD place is also hot?

Prob. Australia. (just a guess)

Model year and miles/km? Trying to understand if the Leaf battery degradation issue is ongoing or limited to earlier years. There were at least two chemistry changes, possibly more.

Also, doesn’t that level of degradation trigger a warranty replacement?

If the S model is 40kWh then at that price I think it’ll sell/lease pretty well.

The rest I don’t know. They seem kind of high.

I’m sure it’ll win some Bolt customers by having a trunk you can get a golf bag into more easily. And also there is a lot of the world where you can’t get a Bolt/Ampera-e. But it seems like mostly Nissan has aimed for the low end of the market.

Lower-effort update leads to a lower-cost vehicle. It’s a strategy, I’ll give them that.

FWD on a BEV !?!
I’m sticking with my Model 3.

Nearly every BEV to date has been FWD…

Let’s see..

Mitsu iMiev: RWD
Model S: RWD
Smart ForTwo ED: RWD
i3: RWD
Model 3: RWD


Bolt: FWD
Fiat 500e: FWD
Volt: FWD
Think City: FWD
Toyota Rav4 EV: FWD
Mercedes B-class EV: FWD

YOu can’t just list the ones you agree with. There have been both. Both are fine. If you are love one or the other, have at it. Either one is fine with me.

e-Golf is FWD also.

I’m kind of surprised at your post. You list five RWD vehicles including two very small low production ones and one that is just barely starting to get produced.l, but ignore all the mainstream FWD ones.

Facts are facts. A majority of EVs today are FWD and perform well with that configuration. That can be true without implying that RWD is crappy. It doesn’t have to be either-or.

Lots of Model S and i3 cars out there, hardly nearly every BEV is a FWD.

From a model lineup standpoint, that is 2 models. Every other model that has a meaningful offering and production volume is FWD.

So I think “nearly every model” is still fairly accurate, if slightly overstated. I suppose I could’ve said “majority” but given the typical level of exaggeration here and that we’re not talking a peer reviewed journal, the difference seems semantic. 😉

What’s wrong with front-wheel drive? It has been working fine on the LEAF for its entire existence.

You are asking the front wheels to do too much, it makes the vehicle front-heavy, it suffers from torque-steer and under-steer.

Clearly you both live in a place without significant snow!

Clearly we are smart 😉

Grew up in Canada. Prefer RWD, even if it means the odd slide now and then. RWD slides are easier to control than FWD slides.

Plus, good snow tires basically erase any differences in getting stuck.

My experience growing up in a snowy area did not lead to the conclusion that RWD slides were easier to control than FWD slides.

Plus if you ever pulled from a snowy side street onto a plowed busy (ish) street you know how much better FWD is. With FWD once your front wheels hit the pavement you can accelerate at about normal speeds into the flow of traffic. If they don’t get grip you found out real quick. With RWD you had to stick your nose out a lot before you could get better grip.

I’m sure traction control helps some but for me it’s FWD or AWD in snow.

It’s amazing the lengths people will go to so that they can rationalize their Tesla love – even attempting to counter the laws of physics.

No. FWD is easier to control. That’s simple physics.

Yeah doesn’t make sense to go FWD in a purpose-built BEV. Leave that to gas cars trying to save driveshaft costs.

Rear Wheel Drive cars (and trucks) are dangerous, dangerous, dangerous!!! I couldn’t tell you how many times I have swapped ends in a RWD car and that has never happened to me in a FWD car. Every winter I have to deal with traffic jams caused by idiots getting stuck on the middle of bridges or on hills or just spinning out in the middle of the street while driving their RWD cars.

Sometimes I wonder what planet you guys live on because it sure doesn’t seem to be the same planet I live on.

Tesla is the best. Their RWD is the best, bitch please. Tesla fanboys are idiots. They proabably never driven RWD in snow like upper great lake state or Northeast corridor

Haven’t I? Think again shortcake. My family has lived over seven generations in Colorado and I’ve lived well past a half a century.

Since you are in denial, I will have to assume the next RWD car sitting sideways on an icy bridge holding up traffic is you, Will. And, since I probably won’t have a chance to tell you then I should tell you now, you’re an idiot!

It’s called sarcasm. It this site is full of tesla fanboys that do not own one. Like the “afforable” 3, no middle class family will buy a 56k car with all the bell and whistle when the can get a SUV at that price or cheaper. My partner leased a 16 explorer with every option for less but he does complain every week when filling that black beast while it takes me 3 weeks to fill my 12 Volt and that’s because it I have a 56 round trip commute to work

One just needs to ask the question of which ICE car is the new intended to compete with?
So, which 5 seat hatchback will it outcompete at 30-39K?

There’s the rub. The Leaf, even the Leaf 2.0, appears to be aimed at competing mainly with other EVs… if we define that broadly to include non-plug-in HEVs like the various models of Prius other than the Prius Prime.

Contrariwise, the Tesla Model 3 and, at least to some extent, the Bolt EV seem to be aimed at competing directly with gasmobiles.

If the Leaf remains aimed at only the very small portion of the market that is EVs, then the TM3 almost can’t fail to outsell it, since gasmobiles comprise the overwhelming majority of the market.

Nissan is also retreating from controlling its own battery supply, by selling off its NESC battery manufacturing business to the Chinese. 🙁 Seems as if Nissan has deliberately chosen to make sure the Leaf 2.0 will be limited to a small market.

Yeah tesla is competing against 99 % of the gasmoble market and 70% of EV market of the 1 %

Incremental battery improvement & slight body refresh? Boring.

They will have a tough time competing against the Model 3.

I don’t see them competing with the Model 3, I see them as complementing the Model 3.

I think it is nice for them to offer an intermediate range EV…above the early ~100 miles EVs and less than the >200 mile range EVs.

But other than that, I don’t see the draw for the new LEAF.

I think it will be a competitive offering for an affordable EV. I certainly think it will gobble up most of the demand for the Ioniq EV that Hyundai doesn’t seem to be willing or able to produce to meet demand for that vehicle.

Anyone know if they are offering SAE-CCS? I really wish they would. Honda went with CCS so it seems Chademo is dying.

It seems like Nissan has decided to stick with Chademo. This barely makes sense now and *really* won’t make sense in another 5 years.

The Leaf is the last car still using Chademo in the US. Everyone else has abandoned it.

Kia Soul EV is still using it, Tesla has a CHAdeMO adapter, and the Toyota Mirai has a CHAdeMo socket in the trunk for V2H power output. Every new DCFC station has CHAdeMO plugs. Not abandoned yet.

Hyundai has switched to CCS. As Hyundai owns Kia, it is just a matter of time until Kia makes the switch.

Nissan will soon be on a CHAdeMo island all to itself.

You guys are forgetting about that Bollinger truck. So in reality it’ll be the Leaf and all 10 of those that they’ll probably sell 😀

They don’t even have to abandon Chademo…just add SAE-CCS.

But I guess that would be an admission that it is over.

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

IMHO, this version LEAF will be a huge seller.

Once the discounting begins, it will sell well where the Leaf owners have graduated through the 2012-15 model years (24 kWh), to the 2016-16 (30 kWh).

This 2018 (40 kWh) Leaf, represents the biggest % range boost since the transition between model years 2015-16. Add in the added HP and the rest of the new tech stuff, this Leaf should start to keep up with Bolt sales in NA, about this time next year. Now that Tesla will be going through its own internal production growth dilemmas, this may be Nissans brief moment, to get these off dealer lots and out in the wild. I’m not sure how they are going to actually accomplish the above without a little discounting.

Meh…it seems like a minor refresh and it will sell just like it has been. It will lose market share if Tesla cranks out the Model 3.

I remember the time when we EV advocates were hoping for just one company other than Tesla to put a BEV into production that had at least 100 miles of range. And then LG Chem announced what they called a “200 mile battery”… and suddenly the conversation changed, with expectations raised! It’s true that with “only” 40 kWh of battery capacity, the Leaf 2.0 won’t challenge either the Bolt EV or the TM3 for range. Also, quite possibly whatever BMW comes up with for the next-gen i3 will also have a range in excess of 200 miles. But 40 kWh would give a range comfortably in excess of 100 miles. Going strictly by math, if the 24 kWh Leaf had 75 miles of real-world range (and EPA rated range, before Nissan manipulated the testing procedure**), then the 40 kWh Leaf should have ~125 miles of range. That will be quite enough for a lot of buyers. That certainly seems to fit well with Nissan’s intent to capture the bottom tier of the highway-capable BEV market. **That is, before Nissan eliminated the pre-set option to charge the car to only 80%, in order to manipulate the EPA’s testing procedures and make… Read more »

What are you talking about. They eliminated the 80% option because the EPA told them that if they included it, that would be the range or some such. It was a stupid decision on the EPA’s part imho.

It was Tesla that came out with the 85KWH battery who change the perception of EVs. They really drove the “more than 200 miles or go home” philosophy. LG Chem then played catch-up to Tesla.

Found a 30 cubic foot cargo capacity rating.

Again, assuming this is all true, Nissan has decided to sacrifice rear seat space/legroom for a much larger cargo capacity.

LUGGAGE comparison

Leaf– BoltEV– Model 3—model S

Leaf wins that round. Same luggage room as Model S!!!

Can fit plenty of stuff in the hatch for 5 just fine as long as midgets sit in the rear. 🙂

Pretty sure it’s 30 with the seats down and 24 with the seats up – same as the old Leaf. The old Leaf was fine so why change.

So this info is obviously supposed to still be embargoed. Did Autobytel just screw up “bigly”?

Put it this way, I would not want to be on the receiving end of the call from Nissan that I strongly suspect they received.

I think the 2018 Leaf specs are disappointing, I expected at least a 60 kWh battery pack. The Ford Focus Electric may only have a 33.5 kWh battery and 115 miles of rated range but Ford is already deep discounting the 2017. With the specs of the 2018 Leaf, Ford should be able to pull many prospective Leaf buyers to the FFE.

Your going to have to pay at least $10k more for a Leaf with comparable trim to the FFE. The only big advantage I can see is that the new Leaf has is the Pro Pilot assist. The Pro Pilot option alone will be able to win over many buyers but is it enough to make the Leaf the market leader again? I don’t think so.

Spoiler alert!! If anybody is wondering what the 2018 Ford Focus Electric is going to be like, just look at a 2017 model and picture it a different color. The two blue colors, Kona and Candy, are gone and the 2018 will be available in Outrageous Green. At least there will be a 2018 model (at least in the US), many people were worried the model would get discontinued.

There is also some talk of longer range on the FFE but no confirmation. Could the 2018 FFE also be getting a 40 kWh battery? The whole Focus model line is due for a major refresh and it’s anybody’s guess what’s going to happen to the Focus Electric then.

If the 2018 had a 40 kWh battery and forward automatic braking I’d be pretty tempted to turn in my C-Max Energi.

Outrageous green? Will it come with free weed?

(⌐■_■) Trollnonymous

Only in CA.

Kalifornia KushY Seats are chillaxing in Outrageous Green!

How easy is it to beat the 115 mile EPA range on the 17 Focus EV?
You know, relatively flat terrain, back roads at 55 mph, dry conditions and temperate weather. What distance is reasonable?
The prices on the 17s seem to be heading south. I test drove a ’14 and quite liked it.

If you just drive around town you will definitely beat the 115 rated range. I haven’t pushed my 2017 FFE yet but I owned a 2013 model for several years and I’m very familiar with the performance of these cars. My 2017 FFE should be able to travel the rated 115 miles traveling at a continuous 60 mph with at least %5 battery reserve.

The longest distance I ever traveled between charges in my 2013 FFE (traveling at 40 mph) was 102 miles and that was with an 18% degraded battery. Under the same conditions and traveling at the same speed I should be able to travel at least 170 miles in my 2017 FFE. I have put several hundred miles on my 2017 FFE in a single day with little difficulty but that is where I had plenty of access to CCS charging stations.

Thank you Texas FFE?!
If Nissan doesn’t come thru with a righteous lease…

No one stocks the stupid FFE. It’s an unavailable compliance car.Get back to us when Ford makes a real effort. Sheesh.

There are over 300 2017 FFEs sitting on dealers lots across the country. If you are close to one of these dealers or if you don’t mind shipping, which is what I did, you could have your 2017 FFE sitting in your driveway within a week. There are some really good deals out there from dealers trying to get rid of their 2017 stock.

If you’re not close to one of these dealers and you don’t want to ship you can order an FFE from any Ford dealer in the country. It takes about three months for delivery of an ordered FFE but any FFE ordered today will probably be an 2018 model since production of the 2018 model is supposed to start in October. The only advantage I can see the ordering is that state rebates would not be available if you purchase from out of state.

I think you raise good points. With the Model 3 and Bolt out there, all these shorter range EVs are just not going to sell well and will have to be discounted.

As mentioned in “Revenge of the Electric Car” Carlos Ghosn practices “The Art of War” by Sun Tzu, “Be where your enemy isn’t”. He is positioning the LEAF to be the true affordable mass market EV, something that neither the Bolt EV nor the Model 3 are. He showed that the limited range of the first LEAF, the looks, the lack of an active TMS are not an impediment to sales if the car is priced accordingly and is accompanied by a charging infrastructure and a world-wide market.

I would not condemn the new LEAF, certainly not before it is even delivered yet.

Nissan was pretty much forced to play the “budget EV” card. They would never challenge Tesla’s luxury image. And when GM unveiled the Bolt, that is when they probably tossed out the “longest range” EV card too.
What was left? The “semi-long range, budget EV” slot that happens to have a HUGE hatch.

Interesting to see how the decision to gimp the rear seat space plays out. Less legroom than even a Gen 1 Volt, which was always crucified for having a cramped rear seat.

Try this. Tesla was forced into the premium EV space as they do not have the scale or means to compete in the large scale, affordable EV market. Nissan was there first – by choice.

I don’t what you are on about with the Leaf’s rear legroom. The dimensions haven’t changed.

Huh….the ’17 Leaf has even less rear legroom than the ’18.
Funny, since I rarely hear anyone complain about the Leaf’s rear legroom…even though it is rated less than the Volt, which people scream about.

I don’t know about what’s on paper, but I have been in the back of both cars. I can tell you that the Volt gives the feeling of being smaller. Maybe it’s the low seating position or the sloped roof.

“He is positioning the LEAF to be the true affordable mass market EV…” No, very clearly he isn’t. If the Leaf 2.0 was aimed at being a “true affordable mass market EV”, then Nissan would be preparing to ramp up production rapidly, as Tesla is doing with the Tesla Model 3. Nissan would also be either building out its own large battery factories, or else would have made a contract with LG Chem for a (comparatively) large supply of batteries within a very few years, as VW is rumored to have done. The Leaf 2.0 is well positioned to capture the shrinking bottom end of the growing highway-capable EV market. This business strategy makes sense only in terms of milking sunk costs for all they are worth. Long-term, it’s a plan for disaster, as the Leaf will become increasingly obsolete and unable to compete with newer models of plug-in EVs. Presumably Nissan has other, more competitive BEVs in development, but doesn’t plan to market them (or brag about them in public) until the price of batteries comes down more. Other auto makers are aiming at 2020 as “the year of the electric car”, and perhaps Nissan is planning to do… Read more »

I thought s too but no one else makes their own battery cells, even Tesla doesn’t. It is not feasible at this point, Nissan tried for many years.

See the previous InsideEVs article: http://insideevs.com/nissan-ends-battery-business

Nissan is ramping up because they have three factories to build this EV compare to the Freso plant that have to build three models on one production line. My bet would be in Nissan, with evs in most dealerships nationwide by December


If by Freso you mean Fremont, you should know that the Model 3 and S/X assembly lines are distinct from one another. They do not share a line.

Fremont freso, same crap same area, it’s the same line the only difference is that they are building the 3 underbody and powertrains at the Nevada factory. If I was a investor I would have ask Elon to move the whole production line to Nevada

As I thought, Nissan doesn’t fail to disappoint.

Sure, you’ll save several hundred bucks compared to getting a Model 3… what a bad joke this is!

If it wasn’t for the fact that Model 3 will be in short supply AT LEAST for the so called foreseeable future, they shouldn’t really sell a single one. It’s almost an insult.

No you will save several thousand of dollars if you want a affordable ev out the door compare to the tesla 3 which is a basic model and have to wait till 2018-2019 to get your car with no tax incentive


You guys are rough.
Remember when Tesla had a 40kwh battery?

My wife drives a Leaf now and she would not take the Bolt on looks alone – too small appearing. So there is that crowd which actually represents a huge market – not the EV enthusiast crowd.

Our 4 yo, 45k mile Leaf has a little bit of degradation but still makes it. So despite no thermal management….

And – 125 (or 140) mile range is fine. You have another car for road trips. Imagine that a family with 2 adults and 2 cars….again a huge market.

So while you are all complaining, my wife will go and buy a new Leaf (maybe).

The negativity here is a little aggressive don’t you think? The Bolt looks like a toy car and the Model 3 has a tiny trunk and opening. And I am sure the Leaf will have more included features at a comparable price point.

At least no one is complaining about the torque.

It’s all terrible and hopeless! 😉

That’s right, it is premature to write off the new LEAF.

The LEAF and Bolt are so similar I find it amazing anyone can say one looks like a toy and laud the other.

As to the torque, Read up on the 2013 LEAF. People complained about the torque to no end. There was a perception that the 2013 LEAF was down on torque compared to the 2012. I never had a 2012 so I can’t say whether it’s true or not though.

I have never driven a 2013, but I assure you that the 2012 does just fine in the torque department.

Will tuck this thought down here-ish on the thread. The thing to bear in mind is the pricing (as stated by Autobytel & looking accurate), this is a 150ish mile LEAF for $29,990…or rather, classic wheelhouse for Nissan: offering the least expensive, mostly capable EV that money can buy. And this is where Nissan is starting with their mid-size classed EV (discounts will apply almost immediately no doubt) – then you have the 60 kWh option on top. Given historical norms, we are likely to see the battery option at around $4-6k on top. — Past the OEM pricing, and focusing on incentive-based countries (which is where the bulk of sales are found), specifically the US, over 75% of all EVs with a MSRP under $50k are leased, so the MSRP for the majority of EV buyers…means nothing in the US. A $29,990/150 mile LEAF will have national lease deals from Nissan for $229/month almost immediately, and regional dealers will be well, well under that…all the time. If the 60 kWh battery is say a $5k option, that adds $62/month on a 48 month term (about $83 on a 36)…so again, available sub ~$300 for a 200 miler, every day… Read more »

Just my 2p:

While I personally appreciate longer range EVs to drive, the world (and the EV segment in general) doesn’t need a 125 kWh/400 mile EV for $50,000 anything like it needs a 150 mile/mid-size offering for $19,999.

The arrival of a 400 mile EV for $50k, or a 250 mile EV for $37,000 does nothing in getting EV new vehicle market share much past 2-3%.

But once decent 150 mile EVs are made available under 20k, then we are likely close to 50% market share, and well past the point of no return…and at that point, everyone’s fancy dreams and ‘specific’ wants (uber long range EVs, plug-in trucks, utility vehicles, uber fast cars, plug-in public transportation, city runabouts for 10k, etc) is likely to be fulfilled at the same time.

With that said, do I personally want a $29,990 LEAF with ~150 miles of range? No I do not. Will I buy one? Nope. But I can appreciate that it is taking us one step further in the direction we need to go for the electrification of the automobile.

New? Or used under 20 k for 150 miles?

I think along the lines Jay does.

There is certainly a marker for longer range EVs. But there’s a big market for 100-120 mile EVs too. The latter will always be cheaper, they’re good for most driving days. And if we could get a DCFC network in place they’d even handle a bit longer trips in a pinch.

For multi car families there’s a huge value in a cheaper, 120 mile EV as one of the cars.

So I don’t want to see the shorter range vehicles driven out of the market. I would like to see the prices drop of course.

Exactly. A family has two cars. One is a PHEV for the occasional road trip and one is an EV for the daily commute. We aren’t at the point where the masses by an EV because they take a lot of road trips.

I completely agree with you Jay. I think that for the masses down the road, a 40kwh EV with 150mi range will be a mainstream option. For me with the biggest hesitancy with the Leaf in the future will be the bad taste in everyone’s mouth from past battery issues. When the size is smaller the cycle rate is lower and the likelihood of more rapid degradation is greater.

I agree that a 150 mile car can work but they need to price it accordingly. $30k-$36k is not it.

Just to be clear, I’m not saying the 2018 LEAF is ‘that’ car, or Nissan is going to sell 20,000 a month.

I’m just saying it is a “step”, one of many, in getting to where we need to go (IMO).

“decent 150 mile EVs are made available under 20k”

I think 130 miles in poor climate is the sweet spot. That’s 2 hours at 65 MPH, good time for break for most people. That means it has to be 150+ miles range plus TMS. Without TMS, it would need far bigger battery.

I suspect the new Leaf will not come with TMS, which means winter range could be cut by almost half. That’s not good.

Bringing the masses in ev cars is certainly a very good objective but cutting on the battery, the hart of it, may not be the best way. An ev at 20000 $ is not realistic because even petrol cars cost about 20000 $ and then need an additional semi truck equivalent of gas during the course of their about 200000 miles lifetime, which add another more or less 20000 $. So an ev cost is on par at about 40000 $. It needs electricity of course but it doesn’t need the maintenance the ICE car need. For 40000 $, if the car is build with no frills like unnecessary things like autopilot, self park and all that kind of stuff it is possible to make the box for 20000 $ which leaves 20000 $ to make the 150 KWh battery. That is the equivalent of 133 $/KWh, a lower number than the GM 145 $/KWh but pretty close enough to make it feasible, certainly at the gigafactory scale for instance which I think must be at 115 to 120 $/KWh right now. Of course it will always be possible to make a car with a small battery but that will… Read more »
Jay, probably depends on where you live. If you read my experience at the VW dealer yesterday in Rochester, NY, the salesman admitted to me most EV’s they sell are traded back in within a year since the driver doesn’t get the expected range. And here the dealership even tried to coach the new ev driver properly. I like many EV’s such as the I-miev and Smart ED, but they can only do 60 miles which is no where near enough for me for even a third car. I admit as EV drivers go, I’m a very high mileage driver. The other thing against your argument is the experience that ENTERPRISE rent-a-car had here re: the Nissan Leaf. I asked the manager why they had a wall box on the building but no EV’s or PHEV’s for rent? He went into a tirade about, from a logistics standpoint – how HORRIBLE the LEAF was. (You can just imagine the situation – Cold Buffalo Winter, Nissan’s range now only half the pitiful range it is in the summer time – renters getting stranded as the expected driving range runs out way before they get to where they’re going – and the… Read more »

Jay, the one caveat to me is that a $37,500 250 mile range EV like the Bolt, can be a very attractive used car.

So while its new price doesn’t have the appeal you desire, the used price likely will in a few more years.

Perhaps in Europe.

You are technically correct that most don’t need more than 40 kw. But the top selling vehicle in NA is the F-150 – few consumers are driven by what they “need”. As sales go past the environmentally sensitive early adopters, mass market trends are much more important to prediction of sales.

The current Nissan discounts are so massive only because they are so behind the market. Predicting good sales based on similar discounts in two years is ludicrous. Discounting your vehicle by 25-30 percent is not a sustainable sales model.

The current Leaf discounts are massive because the cars MSRP is massively overpriced…
I fully beleive Nissan is breaking even at least when selling the current gen Leaf 10k under MSRP…
Batteries, EV motors, inverters, and chargers do not cost that much as the price GM dealers sell Bolt parts to customers like me at retail is relatively cheap and that is not what they pay…
I would expect the new Leaf to 2k plus discounts within a couple months and 5k plus not long after….

I totally agree with you. Tesla and GM are both giving Nissan an assist by giving the impression that EVs have to be expensive. That’s why Nissan can afford to offer so many features relative to the competition. Not only is Nissan commited to EVs, they have the scale to do something about it.

The F-150 is a very particular vehicle. It is literally an oilies wishful thinking vehicle, a tank with very bad Cd, consequently needing tons of gas to drive it. It is the optimum gas consumption machine that was turned into a real desire and made real the oilies wishful thinking.

There will be some F-150 sized vehicles left in the future but they will only be used when really needed not for everyday driving.

The first cars were not aerodynamic, then, to gain speed, they became aerodynamic and lighter. When speed limits were installed people started to limit their demand for fast cars and the turned to tanks instead. Now with electric vehicles the need for aerodynamic vehicles is back, not for speed but for range.

People will have to choose between a modern electric vehicle or an old fashion petrol behemoth F-150. They will only be able to have both an ev F-150 sized if they have masses of money to pay for it. So that will be a lot less people and only those that really need it will proceed.

If you truly believe that you are in for a rude awaking. There are reasons that owning an SUV and Trunks are big sellers. If EV isn’t able to grow to bigger vehicles they will never be able to take over the market. People have been buying vehicles because they look cool despite being impractical to drive has existed for as long as cars have been selling. People aren’t going to switch to tiny car’s no many how many wishes you make upon a star.

Good insights, Jay. Of course, I’m thinking resale. So much leasing means a lot of churn, as auctions spit out a crop of trade-ins and the ~36 month counter begins on 10’s of thousands of <$50k EVs. Then, the lease deals might tick up on the "Residuals" of an EV buying culture, that isn't so into used cars in the first place.

Tesla has thrown down the range gauntlet, and others following will just pressure resale that much more.

You, sir, are the voice of reason.

Of course this is speculation; but, I see pretty much the same car with a face-lifts, FWD and the same suspension design, except loaded with more batteries for range. The increase in power is needed to offset the additional weigh of the batteries and the heftier carrying components. I look for Nissan to drop prices to compete with the Hyundai Ioniq, which I think is a better car.

Nissan jumped out into the lead in this EV segment; but, is content to run in the middle of the pack so they waited six years for the others to catch up.

“40 kWh is what most people here seemed to expect”

It is time to stop that non sense. We need 150 KWh to be able to drive at a sustained high speed on the autobahn. Even the Model 3 with 100 KWh and the Model 3 with 75 KWh is still on the lower limit side but this “new” Leaf with a mere 40 KWh is really out of target completely. Outdated before it even hit the market. I find it hard to believe that Nissan added only 10 KWh to the present battery, that is not serious. There doesn’t yet seem to be a full commitment to high energy batteries. A real question mark.

Agree on this one:
I’m glad the new ‘3’ has an 80 kwh battery – at least the first 30 employee-models.

I’m jealous I can’t get an 80 kwh battery for my BOLT. Seeing as I really drive my ev’s, I always use up ALL the battery capacity, no matter how large the battery is, seemingly. But I was surprised I can go 279 miles in my BOLT on a single charge.

A BEV F-150 would, as you say, have to have around 150 kwh batteries for most people.

The only problem is, such batteries today still are somewhat pricey.

BUT a PHEV F-150 would electrify a substantial part of its travels without greatly increasing the cost. Yes the added electrics are a complication, but the electric motor drive can give the truck even better performance from a dinky 4 cylinder engine since most of the acceleration comes from the battery, which can be recharged later.

Actually I was mentioning 150 KWh for a standard electric car like a Model 3. An hypothetic electric equivalent of an F-150 would ask something like 400 KWh.

I don’t doubt that this 2018 leaf won’t be an enormous success in the US once compared to say the TM3 but at the right price point, it will sell extremely well.

Here in Europe though is an entirely different story, given the most recent high profile revelations regarding diesel emissions and widespread collusion, coupled with high fuel prices & shorter travel distances, this refreshed version will sell in vast numbers when it goes on sale within the next 6 months IMO.

I look forward to never filling up a gas tank ever again !

I wouldn’t count on that Tesla rolling out as quickly as everyone seems to expect. That handover party was window dressing for the junk bonds.

Those 30 cars they gave out where the hand build betas cars I heard on Bloomberg

40kWh will be disappointing.

Not on an S model for <$30K. 40kwh in an improved Leaf will be good for probably 150+mi of range. That's a pretty solid value proposition if you include the $7500 tax credit. 150mi of range with DCQC would be more than enough for most people.

Add in Nissan “No Charge 2 Charge!
My apologies to Sparky, for mentioning the Leaf NC2C.

These days, I encounter more Bolt that get free charging (by driving for Lyft) than Leaf. Wait times for Bolt are far longer. 🙁

It’s like GM/Lyft is having revenge on Nissan / BMW for free charging.

Free charging SUCKS!!!

I wonder if the leaf info leaked is from Nissan employee who is upset that it didn’t unionized. Well played.

In other news. The TM3 sold 30. Needs more funding so it needs $1.5 billion in junk bonds. Does this mean Tesla is in trouble of not being able to fund the production of the TM3?

Yup. That’s exactly what it means. They rushed to market and the car isn’t ready. If they scale up quickly, they are just asking for trouble. These bonds are a safety net to weather the inevitable storm when they can’t deliver in the timeframe they have set.

If the SL is a 200mi range car, is decked out, and includes the ability to drive itself on freeways… that’s pretty compelling to me. Those same features in a Model 3 will cost you $42K on the base battery pack.

I doubt I’ll buy it over the Model 3, but I’m still curious. If I was far down that Model 3 list, I may have been swayed.

Nissan’s Propilot is unable to change lanes, unlike the Tesla’s Autopilot.

And we don’t know if the 2018 Leaf will come with the necessary hardware for future software upgrades allowing this.

Thus I’d pretty much discount Propilot as a desirable feature.

Maybe it’ll drive itself on the highway, but there won’t be anywhere to charge it at the end of the journey.

$30k for a 40 kWh car is not good enough I’m afraid. It’s obsolete already when it is launched. They need to drop the price several k.

People are currently paying 10k under MSRP for Leafs I doubt people will pay anywhere near MSRP for the new Leaf several months after it is launched…

Possibly but then don’t make it $30k MSRP but $28k or something. Pricing the car very high and then “secretly” giving huge discounts is just stupid, first impressions matter and $30k for a 150 mile car in 2017 gives a bad impression.

Website link to Autobytel is dead. Lol

Someone’s getting/got fired.

Got tired of waiting, bought a 2013 CPO Tesla Model S85 for $43,500. Still has 250 miles rated range. Too little too late from Nissan

yes John,
I did close to the same. Used CPO Tesla’s S’s are a good deal. When they are used the add ons are worth nothing. My 2012 has pan roof everything the works . Love my air suspension too….and you can’t get air suspension on the M3.

I need to keep my S another year.

Congrats! Sounds like a great purchase with a good price.

We are a tesla household, but were planning to buy either the bolt or leaf 2 once we could get either for $200 a month. We were expecting Leaf 2.0 to be 200 miles plus. Bolt here we come.

Well said. Great synopsis!

Hmm… that comment was meant in reply to a great comment above about the new LEAF with ~150 miles being sufficient for a lot of people, and if they want a road tripper it’s best to go with a Tesla, until the DCFC infrastructure is widespread.

DCFC is dead around my area (San Diego). I passed by DCFC today, and there were two Bolts (both getting free charge since they drive for Lyft), one i3, two Leafs. I suspect the i3 and Leaf also get free charging. If I had to charge, I’d be waiting well over an hour, maybe over 2 hours.

It seem free charging is spreading, not abating. That means DCFC will be all but unusable for long distance travel. You wouldn’t risk waiting 2+ hours just to be able to plug in the car.

Small sample set? I charged my Bolt three times at public QCs in San Diego in the past 5 days. No waiting. Does a spark even have quick charge capability?

SparkEV is the quickest charging EV in the world, and remains so.


SparkEV maintains 48kW to 80%. Bolt tapers at about 65% to 25 kW (from 36 kW at 50%). I saw a Bolt charging 10 kWh in 20 minutes to 80% (30 kW average) while Leaf charged 12 kWh (36 kW average). Bolt might be the slowest charging EV in the world to 80% at this time.

It’s the luck of the draw with waiting when people get free charging, and I have very bad luck, maybe unluckier than “unlucky” the Bolt owning forum poster. It’s 100% chance that I wait at DCFC these days, and for last 3 charging, it was always for Bolt (or 2 Bolts).

That’s totally incorrect. On a 125A, 50 kW CCS, the Bolt tapers from ~46 kW/125A to ~38 kW/100A somewhere between 50-58% SOC.

The next taper level is at ~70% SOC, to about 24 kW/62A. Then somewhere between 90-93% SOC, the final taper to the mid teens (which pretty much all EVs taper to after they hit 90%).

It’s odd that GM produces the quickest charging to 80% EV in the world (SparkEV) and the slowest charging in the world (Bolt). While SparkEV’s quickest charging record may be broken, it’s unlikely anyone will ever break Bolt’s slow charging record.

Bolt will go down in history as the worst charging to 80% EV, and most likely will remain so forever.

If GM had intended to make the Spark EV available nationwide, almost guaranteed they would have given it a more conservative fast charging profile.

The main purpose of the Spark EV (besides CARB credits) was to be a test bed for the Volt 2.0 and Bolt. No doubt GM pushed the Spark EV to the limit to find out how hard they could push fast charging.

When you only sell a few thousand units, battery warranty issues aren’t much of a concern at all.

Fwiw, I’m guessing a lot of places you’d have to DCFC for long distance travel probably won’t be that used by locals. For example the chargers in the Central Valley, I’m guessing wouldn’t be that used. Still it is a legitimate problem. The infrastructure still really isn’t there.

And the other thing is this could very well be a problem for Tesla super chargers too once a lot of Model 3s are being driven.

If your “long distance travel” is between San Diego and Los Angeles, you will encounter waiting, because all chargers are located in cities with plenty of EV that get free charging.

But even for longer trips, many (most?) CCS are located in cities where they are clogged with locals and Lyft getting free charging.

Seriously? To paraphrase a famous political campaign manager, “It’s about range, stupid.” As a former Leaf owner/fan, I hope Nissan has more to offer than this.

Can I just point out that ‘LEAF’ in the context of Nissan’s EV is an acronym for ‘leading environmentally-friendly affordable family car’ (or perhaps more accurately a backronym) and as such, should be formatted in capitals.

Mhh mhh. If a lexicalisation has occured, an acronym can be written in lower cases.

Everybody who is bashing on the unreleased Leaf 2 seem to forget that in many places around the world this will be the first 40kWh+ EV you can buy and get serviced locally. Leaf is available in more markets than Zoe, Tesla or Bolt/Ampera-e.

Yes, that is a very good point!

As per the specs from pushevs.com
Here are the dimensions in New Leaf with extra compared to current version in (+ )
176.4 (+ 1.4)
70.5 (+ 0.8)
61.4 (+ 0.4)

And the interior volume is 116.4 cu. ft. (92.4 + 24) which is only 0.4 cu. ft. more than current version 116 cu. ft. (92 + 24). That’s not believable given the increase in dimensions.

The maximum interior cargo volume is given as 30 cu. ft. while the interior cargo volume is given as 24 cu. ft. Again there seems to be a mistake here. The max cargo vol (with back seats folded) should be at least double that of cargo volume.

Current Leaf’s dimensions
Length 4,445 mm (175.0 in)
Width 1,770 mm (69.7 in)
Height 1,550 mm (61.0 in)

New Leaf dimensions in metric:
Length: 4,48 m
Width: 1,79 m
Height: 1,56 m

+1 As an ex-Leaf driver I totally agree… The more range the better, short range EV’s are way too much hassle to be practical. This is why I ditched the Leaf for a Prius until at least 60kWh is affordable used.

I also want to know how the degradation is for this new model , the current generation degrades way to fast.

Lost 6000 euro’s on the used Leaf in one year so…

Just like for acceleration or top speed, were there is more than overkill, there should be the same with range proposals. It would be best good to offer up to 200 KWh batteries even allowing people to drive more than with a gas car and then see them come back later to lower battery requirements in the 150 KWh, 100 KWh or even lower. That would be able to draw much more of the market share, but of course the battery must be sold at cost price not with a margin otherwise it indeed becomes too expensive. The margin could be gained back on other things that have nothing to do with the transition to electric vehicles like special seats, special heating, autopilot, fancy colors, special wheels, or a high end sound system. Over killing range will send range anxiety in history books and allow anyone to choose his ev.

What’s with the doubling of the post?
http://insideevs.com/2018-nissan-leaf-specs-leaked (200+ comments)
http://insideevs.com/2018-nissan-leaf-specs-prices-leaked (71 comments)
Not the first time I find myself looking at a “dead” page that has been renamed.

It’s the same story/post, the longer URL redirects to the shorter one. So one doesn’t actually see a ‘dead page’, just the current URL.

It is something one has to do occasionally when social media (looking at you Facebook) can’t access/scrape the site properly.

Once FB fails, that particular URL is dead to FB/can’t be shared…so we have to rename it, then everything is OK – shareable/likable.

The count discrepancy is only reflective of when the article URL was renamed…not that there is ‘another’ story.

/internet nonsense

Facebook?! What’s that? Like a search engine or something? 😉

It’s the devil…we hate it. But what can you do?

Redirection doesn’t seem to work for me for some reason…
Latest comments are missing from the long url page that I kept refreshing, then I realized there was another url with all comments in it.
Thanks for the explanation!

No problem David, anytime, (=

Odd that you are getting the older URL, the only thing I can think of is you have a really aggressive firewall/protection system that disables any kind of URL changes.

Never heard of a page note resolving to the appropriate story before. It shouldn’t get you too much, its generally only 1 in 100 or so stories that get “Facebooked”, but when FB is having issues with their UI, they can come in bunches (3 or 4 stories in a day…then perfectly fine for 2-3 weeks)

All of these arguments over something that doesn’t tell the full story, even if it’s true. Sheesh… Wait till we get something official.

What I am surprised about is the fact that the “Gen 2” Leaf is physically the same car as the original Leaf; The only difference is a facelift. From the side the profile is almost the same and the doors are identical.

Tiny back seat + 40 kWh battery = fail.

I want to carry people, not luggage.

Yes Murry. It seems like a no-brainer, especially at that price, compared to the Bolt and Model 3.

If I were in a hurry for an EV and couldn’t afford a $35,000 Model 3 or a $38,000ish Bolt (before tax breaks and minus options), then I’d do something like get an off-lease gen 1 Leaf at the $7,000-$8000ish price discussed on the internet.

Making do with that for a few years would likely save substantially in prices/features/capability/value for waiting a few to several years to buy a new EV, as the industry rapidly develops.

This looks like a complete flop to me, compared to either the Bolt or the Model 3.

What is Nissan thinking? Oh, and adding several $thousand to go to a 60K battery pack isn’t exactly enticing either.

How things have changed from 2011 Nissan Leaf SL-E that listed for $35,000 to the 2017 Leaf SL $37,655. Going from 73 mile range to 84 miles, then to current 107 mile range Leaf. Things are getting better. competition will create more alternatives but for now.

It’s either the Bolt or Leaf. Nissan has helped many with battery issues in the hot climate areas, so I recommend leasing the Leaf in those areas. That way, the battery will not be an issue.

For those that put down money for the TM3, I hope the product will be made in a timely matter. Nissan has decades of experience in mass producing car, trucks & SUVs. “We’re going to go through at least six months of manufacturing hell. It’s going to be quite the challenge to build this car.” – Tesla Elon Musk page 40 in Automotive News.

Decades of experience in producing ICE. They are as new or old in EV market as Tesla.

Here are indicated millions of details about the car, every size, dimension, everything BUT the only one people really want to know: the actual range and the battery size.

Come on…

We want to know the range !