2016 Nissan LEAF, Chevrolet Bolt Makes Appearance In LA For Drive Electric Week

SEP 13 2015 BY JAY COLE 153

2016 Nissan LEAF and Chevrolet Volt Concept Draw A Crowd In LA (via: Zan Dubin Scott)

2016 Nissan LEAF and Chevrolet Volt Concept Draw A Crowd In LA (via: Zan Dubin Scott)

Nissan, an official sponsor of Natrional Drive Electric Week – happening now, chose today’s event in Los Angeles to launch its 2016 Nissan LEAF.

Chevrolet Concept Bolt Arriving ~Q1 2017 (And no, Chevy was not giving out test drives) Photo: Zan Dubin Scott

Chevrolet Concept Bolt Arriving ~Q1 2017 (And no, Chevy was not giving out test drives) Photo: Zan Dubin Scott

Just this week, the company announced that the upgraded 2016 model year would feature a 30 kWh battery, making the LEAF the first “affordable” electric vehicle with more than 100 miles of range.

Specifically, the EPA rates the 2016 Nissan LEAF at 107 miles.

“We are thrilled that Nissan has chosen our event for the global debut of the 2016 Nissan LEAF,” said Joel Levin, executive director of Plug In America. “This is the first affordable electric vehicle with an EPA-rated electric range of over 100 miles.” 

Nissan currently has one 2016 LEAF on display at the event, while another is out providing test drives.

In total over 800 test drives were given, with Mr. Levin adding live from the event podium:

“Electric cars are changing the world. Every time one of these vehicles gets sold, our air gets a little cleaner. We will take a big bite out of climate change. Our economy will not be subject to wild swings in gas prices. And we will not be involved in foreign wars over oil.”

Also at the event right beside it, Chevrolet’s Bolt Concept car, which is headed to production late in 2016 (we expect deliveries in Q1 2017) and will feature 200 miles of range with a price tag around $37,500.

Nissan's New, Longer Range 2016 LEAF Turned Up For Test Drives At LA National Drive Electric Week, As Well As Chevrolet's Concept Bolt

Nissan’s New, Longer Range 2016 LEAF Turned Up For Test Drives At LA National Drive Electric Week, As Well As Chevrolet’s Concept Bolt

The event also featured Leilani Munter talking about her Tesla Model S (and racing in general), famed director Chris Paine, Calidornia State Senator Kevin de Leon, and Tesla’s recently debuted Model S P85D police car for the LAPD, part of North America’s largests city EV fleet.

Director Chris Paine, Zan Dubin Scott And LAPD's Tesla Model S P85D

Revenge Of The Electric Car Director Chris Paine With Zan Dubin Scott – Communications Director At Plug-In America With LAPD’s Tesla Model S P85D (via Zan Dubin Smith)

The Present And Part Of The Future Of Affordable EVs Meet In LA

The Present And Part Of The Future Of Affordable EVs Meet In LA

We will have more photos/footage from the event coming soon.

Our thanks to Zan Dubin Scott for the photos!

Categories: Chevrolet, Nissan

Tags: ,

Leave a Reply

153 Comments on "2016 Nissan LEAF, Chevrolet Bolt Makes Appearance In LA For Drive Electric Week"

newest oldest most voted

OK, Can’t top that here in Asheville NC today at their Drive Electric Week. Seeing Duke Energy’s VIA Motors truck is the most unique drive. Zero Motorcycles has a nice setup with five bikes.

Bolt will never drive 200 miles in EPA range! I believe 150 miles Epa, 200 miles when you drive like a grandmother.

Nope Bolt will have 205 miles EPA

And how can you know that, it’s not even in production.

55 Bolt mules have been logging miles and there has been word of range figures exceeding 200 miles.

Jay failed to mention the 200 mile Bolt will cost about the same as the 107 mile LEAF. Or that the Bolt will most certainly have an active TMS system to protect its battery from temperature extremes, while the LEAF will have no such protective measures.

Yes but the Leaf is available and the Bolt won’t be for ~1.5years. By then there will be a redesigned 2017 Leaf with more range coming out. Things are moving fast and you really can’t compare a concept with a production car.

And yet you feel you can call mules on the road “concepts.”

I do.

Those cars use batteries that are not in production yet!

Hence test cars is what they are.

Both Nissan and GM and Tesla awaits general availability of cheaper batteries before they make their more affordable cars.

While batteries are developed/factories are build car design can be changed.

I’d bet money that we’ll see the Bolt going into production exactly 1 year from now (Fall 2016 as a 2017 model).

People have been waiting 3 years for Tesla’s Model X… I think a year and a half is worth the wait for a car with double the range at the same price as the LEAF. 107 miles won’t cut it in my world.

The next generation LEAF is still up for guesses as to range, availability date, content, and price – if Nissan plans it to hit the market at around the same time as the Bolt, with comparable range AND price, that’s all the more reason to ignore this 107 mile stopgap and wait.

“Most certainly” GM fanboy.

I am. And you are most certainly an anti-GM troll. It’s going to be fun seeing you backpedal away as time marches on.

No I’m not Anti-GM nor a troll, I’m all for electrics. If GM deliver at last a good range BEV at a good price with enough production, I’ll be the first to applause. But at this price, a small car produced at 30,000 units, it’s not it.
I’m a Tesla fan though, the only company delivering the best electrics they can make with their limited resources.

You are certainly a Tesla loving troll for sure…


He stated price tag, he stated production numbers.

Those where reported on this site multiple times.

Tesla beats both of those accounts.

Tesla’s numbers where reported on this site also multiple times.

To say that Tesla will advance electrics better… is just conclusion anybody must make on available data stated by both car manufacturers.

“Tesla beats both of those accounts. Tesla’s numbers where reported on this site also multiple times.”

They are all equally vaporware at this point.

Where is the Model 3 prototype? NOT until March 2016. Therefore, they are all prototypes but singling out others while supporting Tesla just based on “goals” are the characteristics of “fan boy”…

I wouldn’t be surprised if the base Bolt has an EPA 150 range of miles and the 200 mile range as a $3000 option. It would be cool to see a 200 mile range BEV (EPA)under $40k, though!

Yes, ten years ago it would have been cool, but now, they can do much better.

Rexie is definitely the most annoying troll I ever met on the internet, or at least a wonderful parano.

As I have already told you before, of course we could be much more advanced had we pursued with more cash and emphasis the sole objective of electryfing transport sooner. But here we are now, unfortunately not where we should be.

But now on, a lot of people are working at improving electric cars, and a lot of scientists and engineers are trying to find the holy grail of battery. I work with some of them and I can tell you that at the scientific level, not political or economical one, they put a lot of effort into that, but there is no magical chemistry out there. They are now building new anode and cathode more or less atom by atom to get the right combination of elements so they will get eventually the right battery, with enough power density, energy density, safety, lightweight, cheap to make, etc. This is not an easy task, not matter big oil conspiracy you will of course invoke.

Technical issues you say… And how did tiny Tesla managed with existing ordinary laptop batteries?
And explain the EPA equivalent range of 105 miles EV1(Ni-MH) of 1999?
The RAV4-EV (95 miles EPA) or the Nissan ALtra from 2003 with Li-ion EPA range of 90 miles?

“Based on my experiences the last few days, I foresee typical driving ranges with an NiMH EV1 like this:

-freeway commuting with minimal stop and go: 130-150 miles per charge

-city driving mixed with freeway (including “performance demonstrations”): 100-130 miles per charge

-worst case – hard use including driving in the hills: 75-100 miles per charge”


Fair enough. But this car was an R&D project with a small but really expansive car, while the Nissan Leaf for example is an affordable real car today. Can we at least celebrate that? Yes, EV1 got killed, it is really sad, but can we look forward now?

What! Are you saying the EV1 was a good small aero two seater because they never let anybody buy them, but the Honda Insight was a bad small, aero two seater because they wanted people to buy them? Make up your mind. 🙂

I said Honda did NOT want to sell them because of the cramped rear seats, the fragile handling and the bad rear view. The insight is a 4 seater.

The original very aerodynamic (0.25 Cd), very light (<1,900 lb.), all aluminum Honda Insight was a 2-seater like the EV1, so it had no rear seats to be cramped. You must be thinking about the quite conventional steel-bodied, not-so-aerodynamic or light second generation Honda Insight.

The first generation Insight (1999-2006) was a two seater. The second generation (2010-2015) was a five seater. Honda never made a 4-seat Insight.

So the one I tested was of the second generation. It was so cramped in the back I never noticed it could be a 5 seat car. anyway it changes nothing on the fact that it was designed to fail.

I will give you that it was cramped, but I have sat between two car seats in the back of my 2010 Insight. It was horribly uncomfortable, and I wouldn’t want to go more than the 10-15 miles I did. But hey – there’s a seatbelt there! On a side note, I suspect that the 5th seat on the 2016 Volt will be very similar if not worse than on the 2010-2015 Insight.

As for “designed for failure”, I disagree. Honda really thought they could beat Toyota at their own game by undercutting in price. The Gen II Insight was a solid $5k cheaper than a similarly equipped Gen III Prius. But they also cheaped out on the electric motor (10kW inline – it always spun at the same RPM as the engine, so little room for optimization) and the battery (a whopping 0.5kWh which always filled up long before you finish a long decent). Honda wanted the car to succeed, but the wildly misjudged the market.

To Brian, car makers and other big corps very rarely misjudge the market, but in the case of EVS, they seem to do it repeatedly, and curiously they also almost always mess the design, or the range…

I don’t know, Rexxsee. You are giving a lot more credit to Honda than I am willing to. If you look back over the past 2-3 decades, they have a long history of introducing a car of any powertrain – gas, hybrid, CNG, electric, Hydrogen – only to kill it off after 2-3 generations. They are always chasing the “next big thing” and cannot seem to figure out what that is. The only real exceptions are the Accord and Civic.

And I say this with great disappointment in the company. I have owned several Hondas – a Prelude, S2000, and Insight, and loved everyone of them. But they are all gone now, and Honda is heading into I-don’t-know what direction. They used to be the only company that had something that excited me. Now they don’t have a single offering that does.

Thankfully, I have Nissan, GM, and Tesla picking up the slack. By the time I’m in the market again (2018 at the earliest), all three will have exciting, compelling EVs!

Brian, in my book, after the cartel decided to kill EVs, Honda is in the compliance club like the others, like Toyota is doing with the Mirai now, they tested the market with the FCV Clarity, then they comply not to pay ZEV credits with the Civc hybrid and the Insight. But they are not on the front scene of the large compliance scene, like Nissan, GM or BMW. The hybrids we have are to make us believe they make efforts… they don’t! They all had good electrics back in 2000. Now we have hybrids or rare overpriced weak ranged BEVs, it’s a regression.

Tesla messed their play so now they are forced to annouced good ranged BEVs much earlier than they would have.

But I would bet you a gallon of electricity that the Bolt and the next Leaf won really compete with the Model 3. Only the marketing beating will…


While I am a big Tesla fan, they just put a sh**load of battery in a big expansive car, this explains the EV range.

For the old EVs, the EV1 was a really small 2 places functional car, with a smaller real-life range, and I don’t know about the charging time, life expectancy, stuff like that, but probably not that good. For the Nissan, it seemed a pretty nice car. Oh probably that the cost were enormous in both cases…anyway, my point is, of course those cars were great and if we had built from them with continuous effort and will, we would be much advanced today. But that is unfortunately not the case, for many reasons, but now, it is a new cycle, and I’m confident that the EV won’t get killed another time. With charging stations popping everywhere, with mobile phone, the world has rather changed since those days. So yes, we are starting from scratch, but now at least it is getting traction, probably too slowly because they don,t want to sell enough of them, but from the engineering side, I don’t think the ultimate battery is that simple to get!

Had Lead Acid and later NiMH EV-1 and the first RAV.

EV-1 was good for 98 to 104 miles per charge. The RAV was good for 84. Wish my 2011 LEAF was at least between them.

Is something wrong with your Leaf’s battery? I drove 81.4 miles today to attend the drive electric event in Kennett Square, PA today and arrived home with exactly 20% left. The GOM showed 23 miles remaining but i don’t ever trust the gom. My Leaf is a 2015 S model with 15k miles, but my first Leaf was a 2012 SV that i put 64k on before it was totaled. Even with all the miles, my 2012 was still good for 90 miles.

As with most thingS YMMV. My 2011 LEAF has 74,000 miles and has lost 3 capacity bars. When I take it in for the 75,000 Mile service I’ll be asking for a price on a new battery. The best I can get is 50 miles to LBW and about 60 miles to turtle.

Thanks for your testimony!

Tiny tesla? More like great big Panasonic, as for being “just” laptop batteries consumer electronic batteries are the most advanced due to the insanely high $/kWh in these applications.

Howcome NO established car maker ever had the bright idea of using the same kind of batteries?!?
All the engineers are dumb? Musk is bright but he is not the only smart guy in the whole world.
The difference is that Tesla WISH to build good electrics.

Let us please give credit where it’s due. When it comes to the idea of powering Tesla’s cars with laptop batteries, absolutely no credit is due to Elon Musk. The original concept car which inspired the Tesla Roadster was the tZero from AC Propulsion. Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning founded Tesla Motors to make a production version of the tZero, partly because AC Propulsion refused to build a tZero for Eberhard. Musk was brought on board Tesla Motors later, to run the financing. We can certainly credit Musk with helping to make Eberhard & Tarpenning’s vision a reality, but it wasn’t his vision.

Agreed, but Musk is the one putting his nose everywhere to enhance efficiency, and he is surely behind the deals with Panasonic. And let’s not forget J.B.Straubel…
The Musk biography is certainly most interesting and informative don’t you agree!
I didn’t lose my time reading it!

To me Musk is similar to a modern day Edison.
Brilliant in his own right, his enormous drive, his ability to inspire others, pick excellent teams, and an almost evangelical following, have allowed him to succeed where others have faltered.

To me, he is Edison, Tesla, Jobs and Columbus, all in the same body.
Edison was more an entrepreneur than an inventor. Most of his inventions were taken from others, many from his employee(and then adversary) Nikolas Tesla.

Rex, there are more than 50 mid-sized to large car makers in the world. NONE OF THEM have been able to make a reasonably priced electric car with more than 100 miles of EPA AER until this year. Tesla is rich mans toy. Most people can’t afford an $80,000 car, let alone the $120,000+ versions Tesla is making. And the EV1 was even more expensive to build.

You can wish for a different set of facts, but in this world 50 kWh of batteries or a superlight/super safe/super efficient auto are simply too expensive to build.

ANY car built in small quantity will cost a lot more than a car built massively.

The cost is irrelevant until we see a Corolla or a Cruze built at 100 000 units/year.
Then electrics will cost LESS than ICEs because there is less parts, hence less subcontracting, less manpower, less transport. Another reason is simplicity of the electric car is much easier to assemble.
Tesla is not building the Giga Factory one only for supply, it mostly to cut costs. Musk said at least 30% and Straubel talked about 50%.

RexxSee said:

“Tesla is not building the Giga Factory one only for supply, it mostly to cut costs.”

No, it’s mostly to guarantee an adequate supply. By the time the Gigafactory is cranking out batteries, there probably will be other battery makers (or at least LG Chem) selling them at a comparable price. In fact, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if LG Chem’s per-kWh price will be lower than what the Gigafactory will produce. Direct comparisons will be difficult, however, since the exact prices for batteries sold in large quantities are held as trade secrets.

Did you notice the word “only” in my post?
Again, I agree with you but both are valid reasons, and both are important of course, having enough supply and a good cost.
But I think LG Chem will be late to the party… anyway, it will be nice to have real completion on BEV prices, for a change..

“And explain the EPA equivalent range of 105 miles EV1(Ni-MH) of 1999?”

That’s not hard to explain: tiny two-seater, only available for lease, production costs exceeding the SALES price of the Model S (so huge loss-maker for GM).

Don’t post silly things, please.

Lol! When you build only 1500 units of ANY CAR, you won’t make any profit for sure! What a silly proposition!

“The M.S.R.P. for the EV1 ranged from $33,995 to $43,995, depending on the model year and the battery pack. The monthly lease payment ranged from $349 to $574. ”
Copyright GM.

There never was a MSRP for the EV1, it was a fixed monthly payment lease-only car. Its aluminum construction alone made it very expensive to produce.

The EV1 was never for sale, but there WAS an official MSRP, and its directly from a GM site.

“Copyright 2001 General Motors Corporation. All rights reserved.”

Right here :

(click “Pricing” at the bottom.)

The decision to lease only was known only weeks before the rolling out.

And it was made of plastic panels, like many Saturn of this era, as you can observe here in this very interesting video, also from GM :

Rex, at the end of EV1 production the per unit build cost still exceeded $100,000 and that does not cost the research and development costs, nor should it. I believe it was a Reuters article that said the Volt was losing GM $80,000 per unit built, but that was only true if you included all the R&D and divided it between the 6,000 Volts built at that time which was BS.
But the fact remains that the EV1 was simply too expensive to build. Yeah, if they had built 50,000 a year they might have been able to get the unit build cost down to $50,000, but they would have had a huge problem trying to sell those cars even at a loss. BUT, the knowledge that they gained building the EV1 helped them to develop and build the Volt.

To ZIV. REX love it when someone get numbers out of thin air like you do. You are right, Reuters article was B.S. Bob Lutz corrected it. To calculate profits one must include all the derived models, and all the years a model is produced. The financial decision to kill the EV1 was not about the car, it was about not selling EVs at all to protect the crazy profits car companies do with ICE cars : maintenances, parts, repairs, and premature replacements. ALL ICE car makers killed their electric cars in 2003. This is no coincidence, Heck open your mind! On the watch of Petro-Bush. It’s a myth that car companies do their best to bring us good electrics. If they did, Tesla would have never existed! Yes the T shaped battery design was taken from the EV1, but only to restrain the interior space of the Volt. And as it was not enough, the big round trim around the dash and the doors finished the job. Why did they not put the batteries in the floor like anyone else?!? If GM was really serious, they would have doubled the range of the EV1 with an all electric Volt… Read more »

RexxSee said:

“And explain the EPA equivalent range of 105 miles EV1(Ni-MH) of 1999?”

That was long before the EPA settled on the current test cycle. Even the 2008 Tesla Roadster was over-rated on range by the EPA.

Furthermore, reports of the EV1’s range varied wildly, and if my understanding is correct, the range dropped off over time much more rapidly than it does for current BEVs. Perhaps some EV1 leasees got a reliable 105 miles. Others reported having difficulty getting 80.

The phrase “Your mileage may vary” applies to plug-in EVs every bit as much as it does to gasmobiles.

When I written EPA equivalent, it was really EPA equivalent, from the modern EPA ratings adapted for and BY the EPA itself.


You may question all the claims I make, and I will provide links for them as much as I can. I don’t usually throw numbers or facts lightly. Maybe sometime in the future you will begin to trust me…

Didn’t read my other posts? This one from a real life testing?
Please take the time to read the entire link page.

“Based on my experiences the last few days, I foresee typical driving ranges with an NiMH EV1 like this:

-freeway commuting with minimal stop and go: 130-150 miles per charge

-city driving mixed with freeway (including “performance demonstrations”): 100-130 miles per charge

-worst case – hard use including driving in the hills: 75-100 miles per charge”


LEAF are known to get over 110 miles in real life too, but that doesn’t mean it is a 110 miles EPA range car.

I drove the EV1 and it is a nice car for its time, but it wasn’t going to have the range especially if heat and lead foot are used.

I know that in real life we often beat the EPA range, but then, there is always someone pointing out that this is not the real tested holy grail EPA range, so, there it is on my upper post, the link to the normalised 2015 EPA range of the EV1.

105 MILES.

The petro-automobile cartel succeeded in delaying the era of the electric car at least 15 years. All hybrids are a regression compared to the missed developpement of real oil-less cars. Hybrids would be totally useless with 300 miles BEVs.

Hey MMF! I didn’t invent the testimony above!

I think 37k $ is price tag for 200+ miles trim already.

150 miles trim if ever available thus should be cheaper then that.

My grandmother drives fast n furious

Is your grandmother Triple-G? 😉


quite an ugly” concept” car!!!

Very small car for the price, it won’t sell well… and that’s the goal : not sell many and saying after that there is no demand.

It’s actually quite good from most angles but the front end is a disaster zone. It looks like the stylists didn’t know what to do so they gave up. The proportions of the “grill” make the Bolt look even smaller than it actually is.

You can choose to not believe GM when they say 200 mile range for the Bolt, but I would say GM has been pretty honest with their range and MPG promises as of late, (even a tad conservative) and they are claiming to get 200 miles in the test cars they have built. I, for one, think they will hit the 200 mile range target.

Sitting together, the Leaf and Bolt look pretty close in size.

i tend to agree, if anything, GM tends to understate their figures. aside from the “smilie” grill, i think the Bolt is not a bad looking car. to me, the Bolt looks to be shorter than the Leaf. the Bolt has a bigger front windshield, though.

Yeah, that original claim of “230 MPG” for the Volt was really understated, wasn’t it?

Oh, wait…

And GM’s claim for 40 miles of all-electric range for the Volt 1.0 was really “understated” compared to the EPA’s rating of 35 miles, wasn’t it?

Oh, wait…

GM has reportedly been conservative in its range estimation for the Volt 2.0. But is that an aberration, or have they actually decided to stop lying about the electric range of their EVs?

the mpg calculation in the Volt is meaningless, you can get *any* mpg figure depending upon the assumptions you use. there is no such thing as a “false” mpg figure.

The 230 mile number was based upon an preliminary EPA methodology that was changed when the Volt was released.

I had a 2012 Volt that achieved 40+ miles on EV range quite often. Most Volt owners will agree that it easily met and passed EPA numbers.

My Volt has been over 700 mpg for months. Not sure how they decided on a understated number like 230 mpg.

Looks like they are close to the same dimensions.

Bolt does not need to be super pretty if it can do 200 miles for that price. Especially if it beats model 3 to market.

So why wait another year
GM could go to production right now.

No. GM can’t even get their second gen VOLT out the door on time. 😛

i too think that GM will prioritize the Volt over the Bolt. GM doesn’t have particularly aggressive sales expectations for the Bolt.

I think the exact opposite is true. Volt got prioritized down to aggressively pursue to market with Bolt. Because itiming here will make all the difference. Says my crystal ball.

GM can be faulted for many things, but under-producing the Volt ain’t one of ’em. For at least the first two years of production, GM had to idle the Volt production line for several weeks each summer, because the Volt wasn’t selling as fast as they had anticipated.

Furthermore, GM did run national TV ads to advertise the Volt, and ran the spots pretty often. So they can’t be accused of failing to promote the car, either.

Whether or not GM will do as well with the Bolt is something we’ll have to wait and see. Personally, I doubt they’ll produce enough to match demand.

Under-Selling, and under-advertising is a good way not having to produce many you know.
Oh yes, they did some advertising, but not the first years, and not so often… Here we had to wait months only for a test-drive…

“Under-Selling, and under-advertising is a good way not having to produce many you know.”

Completely BS. GM had plenty of ads and “publicity” when the Volt just came out. In fact, the 2012 election years practically made Volt a household name. It was used a political punchbag by the Fox News!

Why would GM stand against the political tide when it had to shut down productions multiple times to reduce excessive inventory? Not to mention that many Chevy dealers still refuse to carry the Volt.

You just like to bash all other automaker who is NOT Tesla.

There has never been more than 7,000 Volts in the entire US inventory. There has never been excessive inventory. The Volt sells between 1500 and 3000 cars every month, when there is inventory of any sort.
It has always been the car you had to order without actually sitting in the option package and color you wanted. And frequently there have been less than one Volt per Chevy dealer in the US.
GM hates the Volt because their profits are marginal and the service fees on a Volt are going to be minuscule due to the Volts reliability.

Why would you want to have more than 2 months of backlog of the Volt in stock? That is over 60 days of backlogs…

Come to SF Bay Area Chevy dealers, you will find at least 10 Volt in just about every Chevy dealer in the Bay Area! That is the single largest Volt selling area in the country. They are just sitting there on the dealer lots, aren’t exactly flying off the lots!

There are over 244 Volts today within 100 miles of SF. Why would that be lack of inventory?

Using the critics would always use the BS stats such as average to indicate the lack of inventory. But the fact is that people aren’t exactly jumping off their beds to rush their local Chevy dealers in Nebraska or Missouri to buy a Volt. So, using inventory/dealer is absolutely useless.

The key question is that why GM can’t get ride of the inventory in its hottest selling region!

In addition, if Volt are in such high demand, then why does GM bother with thousands of dollars of discount?

Why does local dealers bother with advertising that up to $7000 off sticker price on 2015 Volts?

Even back in 2013 and 2014, there were plenty of local ads with up to $5K off MSRP for the Volt in California.

Get real, people aren’t buying the Volt even if GM tries. The fact is that Volt was a political punchbag and its effect still lingers.

I said “The first years”
The marketing strategy appears more clearly afterward.

The Volt was advertised as “The electric car that goes further” Once people were confused with it, they pushed harder to sell this HYBRID as an all electric. And it clearly worked, as we can see on forums so many owners defending nails and teeth their ELECTRIC Volt.

Now the Volt is established (and often classified) as an all electric car, but it is actually a hybrid consuming more fuel than a Prius on long trips..

Well, the Volt is considered a good selling EV, but look around, do we have much choice of a good ranged EV?!? No we don’t.
Many people will turn their back on the Volt when they learn it is not a BEV only, many for the interior space. But many will aslo buy it out of the economy they can make on gas AND the longer range.
But again we do have many other choices right now.

When I look at the expensive Tesla not able to keep up with the demand, I say to myself that an affordable massively produced decently ranged BEV would sell like hot cakes. But I’m no genius at all, how come marketing people of all ICE car companies did thik of it?!? They have all the necessary resources to do it easily and swiftly… but they don’t.

Meanwhile this planet is choking…

“When I look at the expensive Tesla not able to keep up with the demand,”

That is kind of cherry picking since the story revealed that back in 2013, Elon almost had to sell Tesla to Google in a handshaken agreement due to low sales. Then the sales finally took off after that. But despite all that, the “car was always production limited” from the beginning.

That is one of the “best marketing scheme” taken from Apple playbook. Make the product sound like so desirable that it is always production limited so people are even more likely to buy one.

GM had some ads but they were awful and left viewers confused.

Combined with Fox News’s smear campaign many people to this day still believe a Volt will strand you when it’s batteries die. I talk to people who believe this all the time. GM has yet to directly take on this misconception with sufficient effort.

I think that is correct. Go with the known quantity. Besides the Volt could be used as a gateway to the Bolt. I can already see the commercial:
“You tried the Volt, now get a jolt from the Bolt.”

i’m not convinced of that; i think that GM is primarily focused on the PHEV platform, as are most automakers. not only is GM introducing more PHEVs but the Volt drive train is being used in conventional hybrids like the malibu. the only company that is “all in” on the BEV platform is Tesla, but Tesla has no choice because they can’t compete in the PHEV segment.

They can’t and they don’t want to. Remember the main goal is to stop using fossil fuels.

A car does not need to be ugly. Some people have good taste, most people have bad taste.

The Model S looks pretty good as a cop car

i’m sure that the captains and other higher ups are going to enjoy driving around in it. you’re certainly not going to see the model S used for regular “beat” duty.

I would have made the debut at Silicon Valley as well.

los angeles is not silicon valley.

What?! Sure it is!

I think you’re thinking of silicone valley. A material with more superficial qualities.

as i understand it, there is plenty of “silicone” in the silicon valley: the emphasis is on “youth” there so people who feel “old” tend to get plastic surgery to look younger (in fact, all that plastic surgery actually does is to make you look like you’re *trying* to look younger). so i would say that “silicone” is not a feature that distinguishes silicon valley from southern california.

It would appear there is about a dime’s worth of difference between the Leaf and Bolt. The Leaf gets 107 miles on 30 kWh. I am going to go way out on a limb and say the Bolt will get 200 miles on 60 kWh.

The only real question is how much will they both be willing to lose on each 60 kWh pack to sell SUVs in California?

In Tesla’s case, they will offer a base model, no Tesla-phile will buy, for the same price as the other two. Then they will sell loaded versions for three times as much, and everybody will rave about them. 🙂

Warren said:

“The Leaf gets 107 miles on 30 kWh. I am going to go way out on a limb and say the Bolt will get 200 miles on 60 kWh.”

Hmmm, well the Bolt is a smaller car than the Leaf, so the battery pack will almost certainly be at least a bit smaller than your 60 kWh guess.

Personally, I’m guessing the 200 mile estimate is inflated, that the Bolt will have approx. 160 miles of EPA rated range, and that the battery pack will be around 45-50 kWh.

Kia Soul EV used to have 104 EPA miles of range. Uh… that puts the Leaf behind the Soul for range in the affordable category. I think the best thing about this article is the side-by-side of the Leaf and the Bolt. I agree with the others here that Chevrolet will either slip on delivery date or only pull off the European cycle range, which isn’t 200 miles EPA.
Love that orange, though!

How is it behind the Soul? LEAF has 107 miles.

And the Soul EV barely finds 100 customers a month. Maybe Nissan will quadruple that number – 400 units/month. Or maybe not – why rush out to get something that will be obsolete before it’s a year old.

Zero S/SR with power tank also beat the Leaf to 100 mile range. As did the Brammo, arguably, for the few that got one.

“making the LEAF the first “affordable” electric vehicle with more than 100 miles of range.”

What’s the fare on a Proterra or BYD? All vehicles, you know.

I have a Zero SR with Power Tank and it would be interesting to see what the EPA would say the range is. Farthest I ever got was 106 miles. Unfortunately home was 109 miles away. Sometimes when you push the limits you find them. But 30 min with a 2KW generator and I rode home. There is also the Brutus V9 electric cruiser that claims over 200 miles at highway speeds, 280 miles city.

I will never buy a chevy they lost me years ago when I bough a new s10 blazer chevy builds junk and always will.

Carefully examine a used GEN 1 VOLT (2011-2015). Others have said that, unlike the Prius whose hatch lid is all plastic hardware, the VOLT is built like a tank.

I don’t care what the other car makers say, the GEN 1 VOLT is one of the, if not THE safest car available. THere have been more than one report of people waling away from terrifying accidents that the insurance adjusted said he’d never seen people even LIVE through the crash let alone be so slightly injured that they walk away.

Before someone says an S is safer, I’m not getting in the middle of that argument. ALL I know is that if an S falls down a cliff the fire will be so intense that that there will be nothing left but bone from the driver; the muscle, skin, and tissues/organs will be vaporized.

As any car would be rofl

Ummm … no. There was only 1 cliff crash that resulted in a fire (probably started by an electrical short somewhere).

It’s more likely to just be crushed (and unburned) at the bottom like this one: http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/3318773-181/pd-default-story-headline-xy?gallery=3314901

Volt is the most reliable car in its class:


GM quality does remain inconsistent across their range, and you’re right, in the 80s they built rolling junkyards. Most models are much better today.

The Bolt we are told was epa rated at 203 miles.

I can’t believe someone didn’t roll up a docking station to the BOLT and plug it in to tell us what size the charger in the car is.

I can see we have the same old Doubting Thomases who say a 50 mile range VOLT is impossible (its not its epa 53), or that the standard BOLT is not 150, not 200, but 203 epa miles.

I get tired of the naysayers. They all disappear when the truth comes out.

I’m still here 😉

Right. I think it is a bit of a stretch to believe GM will do what they say by Oct 2016.
Perhaps a year after that we will see Bolts in any numbers at over 200 miles per charge.

At least Bmw is now saying they are putting the petal to the metal in electrification of their offerings.

Bill: I suspect that the model out there was the same one that GM had been showing at the auto shows this past winter. IIRC, that model did not actually have any CCS port. I would have loved to see it too, but my guess is that it would not have shown us anything. I would like to see photos of people inside the car, and comparisons between the Bolt and the LEAF, size, roominess, content, etc. Of course, bringing the car out there was a great PR move, after all, we are all commenting on it, right?


Well if they have 50-odd preliminary models driving around, they probably have a j1772 connector going to a charger. True, it could be just the old 3.3 kw thing used since 2010, since prior to rollout they don’t care about charging speed. I’m more interested in what GM will ultimately offer. Perhaps they don’t want alot of magpies chimeing in and therefore are being tight lipped as to what precisely what option packages they’ll offer.. If they stick with a 3300-3600 watt charger standard, I’d hope they’d have a 6-7 kw one optional. One slight complaint I have with my ELR and VOlt is that, while I most charge at 900 watts at home for both cars, when I’m on the road I would like to be able to charge up at the public station’s capability. At the drive electric event in Hamilton Ontario Canada yesterday, they had SunCountryHighway CS-30’s (24 amp capacity), which charged model S’s at 196 volts @ 24 amps, with my ELR charging at 199 volts @ 15 amps, or less than 3000 watts. Even a plain jane ‘stripped’ leaf will do 18 amps. But you’re right Lou that it would have been even MORE instructive… Read more »

It’s not that they can’t do it, technology is ready for decades, it’s that they will do only the bare minimum to bankrupt little Tesla on the Model 3.

So who had a Tesla X prototype show up at their EVent? They have been test driving so they must have shown up someplace just for grins.

The bolt looks taller than the Leaf. It appears to have a lot of room under the floor for batteries where it’s painted black. I expect GM to make their range target.

Stephen said:

“The bolt looks taller than the Leaf.”

The Bolt is configured like the BMW i3, with batteries in a layer under the floor, and otherwise a fairly short car front to back. The Leaf is a larger car, and the roof is probably not much if any lower than the Bolt’s.

I have a leaf love it but 2016 it will not sell when all u have to do is wait 1 more year and get a bolt that does 200 or even 150 would be worth the wait lol just thought I could wait one more year and get a tesla lol I guess I’ll wait 2 years

+1 I don’t see the 2016 Leaf selling all that well. I think the increase in price for the SV and the SL was a mistake.


The Bolt and Volt both looked very good in LA today. I’ll take one of each, please.

On Chevrolet website, click Upcoming vehicles, Bolt. “With a target range of 200 miles” click on miles “Based on GM estimates. EPA Estimated NOT yet available”… In the end we will se a 38 kWh usable battery in Bolt.

Chevy’s Bolt EV concept page listed the range at “an estimated range of OVER 200 miles…”, according to GM estimates. GM also estimated that the ’16 Volt would get 50 EV miles, and the EPA rating was actually 53. I think it is safe to say the Bolt EV will attain an EPA range figure ABOVE 200 miles (I’ll go with 205).

Here’s my basis for the 205 mile range guess:

That’s why the Bolt is sort of Fugly: it was styled by focus groups. LOL @ the GM manager morons who have no clue about style and design.

I would have hoped that a few more attendees would have commented on the size comparison between the Bolt and the LEAF. For me, 200 miles is the number that I am sure we will realistically see on the Bolt. Why would we not? It seems that the technology is there for such range and knowing that Tesla has their Model III coming out in about 2 years for a similar price and at 200 miles range, GM would be foolish to invest so much time and money and effort into a new BEV and have it not be competitive. Honestly, I cannot figure out how Tesla will get their 200 mile BEV out at a comparable price. It seems(simply from speculative write-ups)that the Model III will be larger than the LEAF or the Bolt. I’d love any one of the 3 200 mile BEV’s, if the prices really are under $35,000 pre Federal Tax rebate. People are paying that now for 2016 LEAF’s. This is getting interesting, to say the least.


My 2015 Volt constantly charges to 47mi EV and per the odometer, usually goes 53-55 actual road miles in flat south Florida with AC on ECO (75 F interior temp)at all times–especially in August and September with daily ambient afternoon temps from 91-93 F. Used 6.4 gal gas in 3263 mi.

Why do people doubt that the Bolt will have 200 mile EPA range? This is not rocket science. Well actually it is very similar. It will require somewhere between 50-60 kWh of battery in a car this size. The only mystery is how they will convince Americans to spend this much for a small car, with the added inconvenience of having to think about plugging in. The public has NO interest in this at all. The only thing driving the “EV revolution” is government pressure, which as we see now in California, is being fought be conservatives backed by industry. Failure doesn’t require majority support. It only takes a handful to stop change.

It’s not the 200 miles question, it’s the 200 miles for 35000$ and not selling it at loss question. If they said, 200 miles and 50000$, absolute no doubt it will be.

If Elon says he can hit a $35k price target for the Model 3, why is it so hard to believe that GM (with a vastly larger supply chain and capital) can hit a $37.5k price target for the Bolt?

I don’t think GM is worried about losing money at this point. I think their much bigger concern is lack of sales. I suspect the postponement of the 2016 Volt, for non-CARB markets, is driven by a fear of public apathy, given $2 gas.

Warren said:

“Why do people doubt that the Bolt will have 200 mile EPA range?”

1. Because EV makers routinely exaggerate the electric range of their cars, and exaggerate it substantially. All EV makers, including Nissan (the 2011 Leaf was a “100 mile car”) and Tesla (the 2012 Model S was a “300 mile car”). If GM actually under-reported the Volt 2.0’s range, that’s literally a first.

2. Because it seems very, very unlikely that after 5 years of barely increasing AER (All-Electric Range) range at all, PEV makers are suddenly going to double the range in one jump.

I think they have looked at the small and falling sales figures for 60-100 mile range cars, and figured they need to get to 200 miles or forget about selling EVs altogether.

“If GM actually under-reported the Volt 2.0’s range, that’s literally a first.”

It was not first. Before Spark EV release Dan Akerson stated it would have 75 – 80 miles range. It turned out 82 miles EPA range.

Does GM understate it ranges, or does the EPA have a positive bias for GM.. you know, big oil lobbying and all the corruption stuff. If politicians get corrupted, why should the political institutions stay forever clean? Just asking…

“Does GM understate it ranges, or does the EPA have a positive bias for GM.”

Do you post a bunch of BS or do you have any facts backing up your claim?

I think you are posting a bunch of BS. GM’s EPA range are usually dead on. Unlike Ford and Kia, GM didn’t adjust its EPA ranges and its owners real world use often match or exceed the official EPA ranges.

Come on MMF, I am merely putting forth a possibility. You know better than this …
Like with any conspiration, looby or corruption schemes, evidences are the first thing that are hidden. This is no BS at all, only a possiblity that happens too often with popular and respected institutions that finally get infiltrated infected in time. It’s an imperfect world we live in..

I suggest you get the book “Internal combustion”-Edwin Black, and HISTORICALLY take note how close is GM from the Standard Oil(Exxon) monopoly/cartel and their underground maneuvers over time.

Big corporation are, never have been angels you know. So like I said, if politician can be bought, why the institutions they manage could not be tainted as well?

It would be true if your theory are backed up by real world data. But it doesn’t add up.

Volt owners in the real world matches and exceed EPA numbers.

So, it looks like your theory doesn’t get backed up by real world evidence.

In addition, to claim that EPA is in the pocket of automakers are just baseless accusation.

In fact, EPA doesn’t test the cars, automakers do. EPA set the guidelines and automakers conform to the guidelines. When the automakers cheat such as Kia/Hyundai, they get fined.

It is not even a theory, only an hypothesis.

Rexxsee, GM is not the same corporation post bankruptcy that it was before.

The old GM single handedly destroyed electric transportation in the entire country by getting rid of Street car lines.

The new GM seems to be doing as much as anyone to come out with popular models, and, with the exception of the ELR, they seem to have pretty good execution.

“If GM actually under-reported the Volt 2.0’s range, that’s literally a first.”

NOT if, GM did!

It was claimed to be 50 miles range and now it is released with official 53 EPA EV miles.

The Bolt is growing on me. Its shape echoes the Mercedes Benz Bionic (boxfish concept).
Having proven their mettle with Volt and the Spark EV, I may be willing to give GM another chance in 1 1/2 yrs. It’d be over a decade since my last GM, upon which I gambled employer cash, not my own!

I think it looks fine, and will certainly be of interest if it lives up to projections of its capabilities.

Was anyone there who had a tape measure? I know the Bolt car shown is just a concept, but I would really like to know the dimensions of this thing… Is it kind of like a Nissan Juke?

GM-Volt.com users did a comparison and found it very similar in size to the Chevy Trax, which measures 167″L x 70″W x 65″H.

For comparison, LEAF measures 175″Lx x69.7″Wx61″H.

So, the Bolt would be taller but shorter.

The key question is how much difference in the wheelbase which translate into interior space.

From the pictures, the Bolt looks to have much shorter overhang in the front and a shorter hood which would lead to a shorter lenghth overall.


“the Bolt would be taller but shorter.”

Correction: Taller in height, but shorter in length.

Hey Pete you have to drive the prius like a granny to get the so called 50 MPG. Just like all gas cars when you start flooring the accelerator high mileage goes away. Especially when using A/C. I also noticed and agree that my Volt does not get as good mileage on the hiway when using A/C. However I do not drive much hiway miles with A/C on. Also with the Volt in the winter the heat uses a lot of battery electricity. Unfortunately the 12 Volts do not have direct mode and cannot get warm quickly. That is why the newer Volts have direct mode. However I was definitely satisfied with mountain mode for those real cold days.
Comparing My Volt with a prius. There is no prius out there that will say 97.5 MPG like my Volt displays. As long as I charge every day the Volt should always have high mileage. If I was driving a lot of hiway miles I would never use a hybrid. I would look at a Chevy Cruze diesel for a lot of hiway miles to be driven.

No it’s the Holy EPA rating, an average.