Toyota Mirai Fuel Cell Sedan Priced At $57,500 – Specs, Videos

2 years ago by Mark Kane 124

Toyota Mirai

Toyota Mirai

Toyota Mirai

Toyota Mirai

Mirai is now one of the most important products for Toyota, as the Japanese company finally decided to bring its first fuel cell cars to the market.

After the launch event last night, we found a lot of new data on this car in the video briefing.

Price, date

Toyota will begin sales in Japan in less than a month, on December 15. The price there is set at 7,236,000 yen including tax (~$62,000).

In the US, the price will be slightly lower – $57,500 or $499 per month/36 month lease option, with $3649 due at lease signing:

“When it hits the market in 2015, customers can take advantage of Mirai’s $499 per month/36 month lease option, with $3649 due at lease signing, or purchase the vehicle for $57,500.  With combined state and federal incentives of $13,000 available to many customers, the purchase price could potentially fall to under $45,000.”

After deducting incentives, Toyota expects a price of $45,000!

In Europe, the launch is scheduled for September 2015 – UK, Germany and Denmark.

“Markets: UK, D, DK for 2015, more markets to be added for 2017
Price: around 66,000 € + VAT (Germany)”

Toyota Mirai

Toyota Mirai

Toyota Mirai

Toyota Mirai

Volume

Sadly we still can’t treat Mirai as a series production car, because in the first year Toyota would like to sell just 400 of them and already gathered in Japan orders for 200. There will be long waiting time in the beginning.

Toyota began developments of FCV in 1992, before Prius hybrid, so it took 23 years to slowly commercialize. This is a low pace for sure..

In California, the plan is to deploy 3,000 units on the roads by the end of 2017! The first will appear in the fall of next year.

“Mirai will hit the streets of California in the fall of 2015.

Volume will be restricted during the fourth quarter, to less than 200 vehicles, but will steadily increase, totaling more than 3,000 units by the end of 2017.”

In Europe, the number of deliveries will be even lower:

“Annual volume: 50 – 100 cars/year in 2015 and 2016”

Toyota Mirai

Toyota Mirai

Crash test validation

Toyota presented at the press conference a short crash test video and stressed that hydrogen tanks were not even deformed.

Toyota Mirai H2O button

Toyota Mirai H2O button

H2O button

Mirai will be equipped with special H2O button to release the water – just in case you are thirsty or would like to show your friends how green the car is (sort of).

4 seats

Asked about just 4 seats, while Honda released a 5-seat concept car at the same time (with fuel cell stack under the hood), Toyota stated that Mirai will be more of a luxury car with comfortable rear seats.

External power feeding device

We saw in the first video that there is a CHAdeMO inlet shown that could supply electricity.

Toyota seems to have some cooperation with Honda in this matter, as both companies stated capability of supplying up to 9 kW DC power from the car (via CHAdeMO) to the external inverter (an optional power take off (PTO) device), which will turn it to AC and enable the car to power electrical appliances or maybe even a whole house.

With a full tank of hydrogen, Mirai should be able to provide approx. 60 kWh of energy so you could survive (with a working fridge) a few more days than others when the zombie apocalypse strikes.

Toyota Mirai - CHAdeMO in the trunk

Toyota Mirai – CHAdeMO in the trunk

Toyota Mirai

Toyota Mirai

No lithium-ion batteries

Toyota stays with Nickel-metal hydride NiMH batteries for Mirai.

Performance

With 113 kW of motor power on the front wheels and 335 Nm of torque, Toyota Mirai can go up to 111 mph (179 km/h) and 0-60 mph takes 9.0 seconds. The fuel cell stack has maximum power output of over 114 kW.

Range is about 300 miles and it takes 3 minutes to refuel.

Interesting is curb weight of Mirai at 4078.5 lbs (some 1,850 kg), which means that fuel cells don’t have a weight advantage over EVs. Nissan, for example, could add more battery capacity into the LEAF and still stay within the same weight and price tag of Mirai.

Fuel cell stack weight is 123.5 lbs (56 kg), while the hydrogen tank’s weight is 192.9 lbs (87.5 kg).

Toyota Mirai under the hood

Toyota Mirai under the hood

Toyota Mirai interior

Toyota Mirai interior

Toyota Mirai interior

Toyota Mirai interior

Toyota Mirai - rear seats

Toyota Mirai – rear seats

Toyota Mirai interior

Toyota Mirai interior

Toyota Mirai interior

Toyota Mirai interior

Toyota Mirai

Toyota Mirai

Press release:

2016 Toyota Mirai Fuel Cell Sedan Product Information

TORRANCE, Calif., (Nov. 17, 2014) – For the second time in a generation, Toyota has re-imagined the future of mobility.

The Toyota Mirai is a four-door, mid-size sedan with performance that fully competes with traditional internal combustion engines – but it uses no gasoline and emits nothing but water vapor. The groundbreaking fuel cell electric vehicle is powered by hydrogen, re-fuels in about five minutes, and travels up to 300 miles on a full tank.

Mirai will be available to customers in California beginning in fall 2015, with additional markets tracking the expansion of a convenient hydrogen refueling infrastructure. Powered by an industry-leading fuel cell electric drivetrain and supported by an exceptional 360-degree ownership experience, Mirai marks a turning point for consumer expectations for a zero-emission vehicle.

Making its Mark with Performance
In its basic operation, a fuel cell vehicle works much like a battery electric vehicle. But instead of the large drive battery, Mirai’s fuel cell stack combines hydrogen gas from tanks with oxygen to produce electricity that powers the electric motor.

Toyota’s proprietary fuel cell stack represents a major leap forward in performance, delivering one of the world’s best power outputs of 3.1 kW/L at a dramatically reduced size that fits under the front driver and passenger seats. The system provides Mirai with a maximum output of 153hp, accelerating from 0-60 in 9.0 seconds and delivering a passing time of 3 seconds from 25-40 mph.

What’s more, thanks to fuel cell technology’s versatility and adaptability, the Mirai offers performance options that go well beyond a traditional automobile. In fact, the vehicle will be offered with an optional power take off (PTO) device that enables Mirai to serve as a mobile generator in case of emergency. With the PTO accessory, Mirai is capable of powering home essentials in an average house for up to a week in an emergency – while emitting only water in the process.

Safe and Reliable Transportation
Toyota began fuel cell development in Japan in the early 90s and have developed a series of fuel cell vehicles, subjecting them to more than a million miles of road testing. In the last two years alone, fuel cell test vehicles have logged thousands of miles on North American roads. This includes hot testing in Death Valley, cold testing in Yellowknife, Canada, steep grade hill climbs in San Francisco and high altitude trips in Colorado. The Toyota-designed carbon fiber hydrogen tanks have also undergone extreme testing to ensure their strength and durability in a crash.

This extended legacy of research and development is reflected in Mirai’s safety and reliability.  At Toyota’s advanced Higashifuji Safety Center, the vehicle has been subjected to extensive crash testing to evaluate a design specifically intended to address frontal, side and rear impacts and to provide excellent protection of vehicle occupants.  A high level of collision safety has also been achieved to help protect the fuel cell stack and high-pressure tanks against body deformation.

Mirai will also feature a broad range of standard onboard safety technologies, including vehicle pre-collision, blind spot monitor, lane departure alert, drive start control and automatic high beams.

Focused on the Consumer
Toyota believes that outstanding vehicle performance must be matched by an exceptional ownership experience.  And Toyota is committed to delivering on that promise.

When it hits the market in 2015, customers can take advantage of Mirai’s $499 per month/36 month lease option, with $3649 due at lease signing, or purchase the vehicle for $57,500.  With combined state and federal incentives of $13,000 available to many customers, the purchase price could potentially fall to under $45,000.

The vehicle will be matched by a comprehensive, 360-degree Ownership Experience offering a range of services, including:

  • 24/7 concierge service, with calls answered by a dedicated fuel cell representative;
  • 24/7 enhanced roadside assistance, including towing, battery, flat tire assistance, trip interruption reimbursement, and loaner vehicle;
  • Three years of Toyota Care maintenance, which covers all recommended factory maintenance, up to 12,000 miles annually;
  • Eight-year/100,000-mile warranty on fuel cell components;
  • Entune and three years of complimentary Safety Connect, including hydrogen station map app; and,
  • Complimentary hydrogen fuel for up to three years.

Building a Convenient Refueling Infrastructure
In addition, Toyota continues to support the development of a convenient and reliable hydrogen refueling infrastructure.

Research at the University of California Irvine’s Advanced Power and Energy Program (APEP) has found that 68 stations, located at the proper sites, could handle a FCV population of at least 10,000 vehicles.  Those stations are on their way to becoming a reality. By the end of 2015, 3 of California’s 9 active hydrogen stations and 17 newly-constructed stations are scheduled to be opened to the general public, with 28 additional stations set to come online by the end of 2016, bringing the near-term total to 48 stations.

Nineteen of those 48 stations will be built by FirstElement Fuels, supported by a $7.3 million loan from Toyota.  The company has also announced additional efforts to develop infrastructure in the country’s Northeast region.  In 2016, Air Liquide, in collaboration with Toyota, is targeting construction of 12 stations in five states – New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island.”

And here we have specs:

TOYOTA MIRAI vs FCHV-adv TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
This table provides technical specifications for the Toyota Mirai with comparative values for the previous SUV-based FCHV-adv fuel cell vehicle. Toyota previously made FCHV-adv available in very limited numbers as a lease vehicle.

FUEL CELL STACK

TOYOTA MIRAI

TOYOTA FCHV-adv

Type

Polymer electrolyte fuel cell

Polymer electrolyte fuel cell

Humidification system

Internal circulation

External humidifier

Max. output (bhp/kW)

153/114

121/90

Volume-power density (kW/l)

3.1

1.4

Mass-power density (kW/kg)

2.0

0.83

Volume (l)

37

64

Weight (kg)

56 (cells + fastener)

108

Cells Number in one stack

370 (single line stacking)

400 (dual line stacking)

Thickness (mm)

1.34

1.68

Weight (g)

102

166

Flow channel

3D fine mesh

Straight channel

Separator material

Titanium

Stainless steel

MOTOR
Type

AC synchronous electric generator

AC synchronous electric generator

Max. output (bhp/kW)

152/113

121/90

Max. torque (Nm)

335

260

HIGH-PRESSURE HYDROGEN TANKS
Number of tanks

2

4

Type

Type 4

Type 4

Structure

3-layer

Materials

Inner layer – plastic

Middle layer – carbon fibre-reinforced plastic

Surface layer – plastic

Fuel

Compressed hydrogen

Compressed hydrogen

Max. filling pressure (MPa)

87.5

70

Nominal working pressure (MPa)

70

Storage density (wt%)

5.7

4.7

Total internal volume (l)

122.4 (60 front, 62.4 rear)

156

Hydrogen storage mass (kg)

Approx. 5.0

Combined tank weight (kg, not including valve)

87.5

Refuelling time (min)3

Approx. 3

BATTERY
Type

Nickel-metal hydride

Nickel-metal hydride

FUEL CELL BOOST CONVERTER
Number of phases

4

Max. output voltage (V)

650

Volume (l)

13

PERFORMANCE
Cruising range (miles – approx.. figure prior to homologation)

300

Fuel consumption

Tba

Max. speed (mph)

111

96

Acceleration 0-62mph (sec)

9.6

Acceleration 25-44mph (sec)

3.0

Cold start temperature tolerance (deg C)

-30

-30

DIMENSIONS AND WEIGHTS
Length (mm)

4,890

4,735

Width (mm)

1,815

1,815

Height (mm)

1,535

1,685

Wheelbase (mm)

2,780

Track – front (mm)

1,535

Track – rear (mm)

1,545

Min. ground clearance (mm)

130

Interior length (mm)

2.040

Interior width (mm)

1,465

Interior height (mm)

1,185

Seats

4

5

Kerb weight (kg)

1,850

1,880

Coefficient of drag (Cd)

0.29

Broadcast live streaming video on Ustream

Here is a link to the video site.

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124 responses to "Toyota Mirai Fuel Cell Sedan Priced At $57,500 – Specs, Videos"

  1. David Murray says:

    For that price I could get an i3 Rex and still have some left over. And if you calculate the fuel savings, you could probably justify a Tesla over this.

    1. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

      Free hydrogen for up to 3 years. (Presumably there’s a miles limit).

      1. Bloggin says:

        Someone who tries this would also have to live near one of the 3 charging stations in CA.

        The big difference between this fuel cell vehicle at 300 mile range, and an EV with 300 mile range, is that after driving 200 miles that day, the EV can fully recharge at home and be at 300 miles again the next morning. While the fuel cell vehicle will be at 100 until they make another trip to the gas station.

        But with over 80% of daily commutes below 50 miles, and over 90% of charging done at home, a 100 mile EV at $30k and $199/mo is a more economical and logistical option.

        Then there is the fact that hydrogen charging stations cost over $1 Million to install, compared with $25k to $50k for a EV QC Station.

        Oh…and then there is that little issue that an EV just might catch fire in a major accident, but the fuel cell car can explode. Which is why I don’t see fuel cell cars gaining more traction than natural gas vehicles. Not to many want to sit on top of compress explosives.

        1. DonC says:

          The one hydrogen fueling station in my city will be a couple of miles from my house, assuming it gets built as planned. But as you point out, that’s two miles further than the plug in the garage.

          I’m having a hard time figuring out the value proposition vis-a-vis an electric.

        2. Dave R says:

          To be a bit more fair when comparing costs of H2 stations to DCQC, a H2 station can probably fill a car with 250 miles of range in 10 minutes. Since the i3 is the only BEV close to the same price, that will charge about 50 miles of range in 30 minutes.

          So you need about 15 DCQC stations to equal the same fueling rate as a single fast fill H2 station. Using $25k / station to install, that’s about $375k. Still quite a bit cheaper than a H2 station.

          Now of course, a plug-in will likely do most of it’s charging at home and increasingly at work, so you really don’t need the same amount of capacity – most BEV drivers today probably do at least 90% of their charging either at home or work – so you probably need around 1/10th the public infrastructure. Let’s say 4 QC stations per location or $100-200k depending on price.

          Another benefit of EVs? Future crops of EVs will charge faster than today’s crops of EVs – look at the Model S for example which can pick up 150 miles in 30 minutes. 2 Supercharger stalls should be about equivalent.

          But then you realize that Tesla is installing 6-8 stalls at your typical Supercharger location and already has close to 20 locations in California alone. IMO, this is equivalent to at least 50-60 H2 stations if not more.

          In fact, if you look at planned H2 stations in California at http://www.cafcp.org/stationmap , you see a huge drawback – they have to build a huge number of H2 stations close together in areas of high population density because you can’t fuel at home. There are huge gaps along major freeways going from north to south and to other states.

          H2 has a long road in front of it – and there is going to be a lot of money in capital that has to be spent up front before consumers will even think about buying them.

          At least with EVs you can plug-in just about anywhere and get at least at trickle charge. That combined with home charging alone is enough to satisfy a lot of vehicles.

          1. Dan says:

            The newest generation of H2 stations can refill 300 miles in 3 minutes, approximately equal to gasoline.

          2. See Through says:

            When you plug in 2 Teslas at a supercharger, both charge at half the advertized rate. Also depends, if you arrive with emppty battery or not. There is a big difference between your max download speed, and what you get during peak hours 🙂

            No such issue for H2 stations.

            1. Big Solar says:

              The rate is reduced but not by half.

    2. Assaf says:

      ….or if you want 5 seats.

      But the biggest Ouch is the production volumes.

      By end 2017 they want 3000 of them in California? Wow. Right now, it takes about 3 *weeks* to sell that many EVs in California alone. And 50-100/year in the EU? That’s how many get sold there in less than a day.

      Just delivers the point, of what a travesty it is that California’s government has allocated more than 20x the money this year to H2 stations than to EV charging. I’m sure if one look carefully, the politician(s) who got some personal kickbacks will be found.

      1. Assaf says:

        There’s an interesting batch of Q&A with FCV automakers over at Green Car Reports:
        http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1095477_hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-questions-toyota-honda-hyundai-respond-part-3
        (links to part 1 and 2 therein)

        Pretty thorough, except no real talk about production volumes and mass-market viability. Also, they let the FCV makers get away with the LOL talking-point that affordable longer-range BEVs are a ‘speculation’ (rather than operative plans of several BEV makers due in mass market in 2-4 years), vs. their own very tangible vehicles (which are “tangible” only if market volume doesn’t play any role whatsoever).

      2. tedfredrick says:

        Yes but there are a lot more charging stations already. One in every house. I just don’t understand the push for the fuel cell. It has to be political. You get a car that is twice the price of the leaf and but with longer range. Unfortunately the range is used up looking for a Hydrogen station

        1. Big Solar says:

          It is political. With money being the main driver of course.

      3. John says:

        “Volume will be restricted during the fourth quarter, to less than 200 vehicles, but will steadily increase, totaling more than 3,000 units by the end of 2017.”

        This isn’t very specific, and could in theory mean that the 200 per quarter in fall 2015 will increase to 3000 per quarter by the end of 2017…

    3. mrenergyczar says:

      They left out the low MPGe rating (compared to EV’s….

  2. Acevolt says:

    Looks like there are a lot of Hydrogen fuel stations in development, but no way to make it to Vegas like in a Model S:
    http://www.cafcp.org/stationmap#st-map

    1. Blind Guy says:

      Vehicles that run on NG have had more success in the fleet and large vehicle segment. If you don’t live near a hydrogen station, you could use up a lot of miles on your lease just to fill-up. Delivery vans, buses, 18 wheelers and other vehicles that would need an exceptionally large battery would be a better use of hydrogen vs battery JMO. I think advanced solid-state batteries will be available for the general public all across the U. S. long before enough hydrogen stations ever will be. With the very slow roll-out, I think this is Toyota’s, Honda’s and Hyundai’s compliance answer for the most part.

    2. Spec9 says:

      No way to make it Vegas in a Model S? What? Uh, Barstow supercharger.

      1. Foo says:

        Read again. He said “like in a Model S”, as in, you CAN do in a Model S.

  3. zoe-driver says:

    Unacceptable.

    Its 78.500€ incl. Tax compared to a Model S which costs 77.740€ as S85 or 68.340 for a S60.

    Here we have to pay tax.

    Regards

  4. Goaterguy says:

    After Toyota’s big investment in Nickel-metal hydride batteries, they are trying to put them in everything they can… Does any other EV uses NMH batteries?

    1. DaveMart says:

      It appears to be exactly the same battery pack as in the Prius.
      It has a very similar job, and is in mass production to hold the cost down, so why reinvent the wheel?
      In this application it is similar in weight and power to the lithium batteries in the Hyundai FCEVd, it is bigger packs for PHEVs where lithium has a weight advantage.

      1. Mark H says:

        I agree with that. It looks to be cycling the battery a lot the same as the Prius so no issue with the NiMH choice. It appears to be functioning like an HEV which is not bad if that is what you want. Given that, I wonder how much performance suffers for efficiency. I really don’t care for muscle car specs but I want more performance than a Prius.

      2. pjwood says:

        I agree, if you go with the flawed thinking that there is no reason to use much lighter lithium (all 1kwh of it), if you are instead going with 60kwh of liquid gold.

        1. liberty says:

          Its a 4000 lb car. They could use lead acid and not change weight that much 😉 Its just too early to release this. it is not mass production. Who is going to buy this over a volt, or i3 or prius phv? It just is too much money. I’m sure toyota will discount it to sell what 3000, but its got to be about the next one.

      3. Mike says:

        The interior of the car looks like a Prius.
        A Prius with Hydrogen, what a loser.

        1. Rick says:

          And the exterior looks like a cross between a Corolla and the Batmobile. Not a good combination.

      4. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

        Hold the cost down?

        An OEM Prius battery will cost you over $2k for a whopping 1.7kWh.

  5. GeorgeS says:

    Good reporting from the show.
    When is the team reporting on the gen 3 Volt?

    Back to FCV

    Not sure why it is so heavy as the stack and tank aren’t that heavy. Is it because it is a larger vehicle? I didn’t run the specs and compare but perhaps it’s more the size of an Impala.

    1. kdawg says:

      Did you mean Gen2 Volt?

      Maybe the FCV has more weight due to needed extra protection for the 10,000PSI tanks.

      1. GeorgeS says:

        OOps LOL. Half a brain cell on too little cofee.

      2. pjwood says:

        We saw what happened with direct injection, when it gas cars first went to 29,000 PSI.

        Poof

    2. Taser54 says:

      I believe the 2016 ELR will be revealed at this weeks LA Auto Show.

      1. ffbj says:

        Your belief was just that, and it was incorrect.

  6. DaveMart says:

    The figure that hits me is the storage tank with 5.7% hydrogen by weight.

    That exceeds the DOE’s just released target for 2020 of 5.5% by weight – a massive five years early.
    Toyota are making very swift progress.

    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2014/11/20141117-doeh2storage.html

    The 650 Volts used and that it does not need a humidifier are also interesting advances

    1. DaveMart says:

      1865Wh/kg explains in one line the interest in hydrogen.

      1. Taser54 says:

        I’ve always wondered if EV advocates have calculated the continuous power and size required for an equivalent EV charging station for a gas station at say a busy interstate travel plaza.

        It seems to me that they haven’t.

        1. kdawg says:

          If there were as many SuperCharger stations as gas stations, no more than 8 cars x 135kW each.

          However, with most people charging at home , or destination charging, people using public “fueling” decreases significantly. Thus no need for that many public “fueling” stations.

          So you can’t really do an apples to apples comparison. Different dynamics.

          1. Taser54 says:

            Sure you can. I referred to interstate travel plazas. It very unlikely for any ICE to start a trip on a near empty tank. They fill up before they start a trip, but they still need to fuel up along the trip. Likewise, EVs need to fill up on trips. Hence, any comparable numbers of EVs at interstate plaza will require massive continuous power requirements, 10x the refueling time, and far more refueling stations. Hydrogen, on the other hand provides the speed and energy carrying capability to allow for fueling logistics similar to a a gas station.

            1. kdawg says:

              It’s also unlikely for any ICE to be able to fill up at their final destination. Not at a gas station near their final destination, but actually at their final destination. Remember, we if we are talking about a time when we need to fulfill the needs of multiple EVs at travel plazas all over the US, then we are at some time in the future, where we can reasonably expect destination charging.

              Also, with electricity ubiquitous in the US, and it being much cheaper to put in a SC vs. a gas station, I don’t see the need to concentrate all of the charging at 1 travel plaza. It’s just not apples to apples.

            2. Jeff N says:

              The continuous power requirements for scaled-up interstate supercharging stations are a non-issue. If a convenient tap into a high power transmission line isn’t available they can always use a fuel cell in the worst case scenario. They can just run a few Bloom Energy solid oxide fuel cells boxes to convert NG into electricity at 50% efficiency for a total WTW efficiency that’s about the same as using NG to make hydrogen for an in-car fuel cell.

              1. tedfredrick says:

                High power electric lines are alwasy next to the roads becasue that is where the people are.

        2. JakeY says:

          I ask hydrogen advocates the same in terms of kg/day. Right now the stations today can only service about 25 cars a day as the bottle neck is not the fueling, but rather than hydrogen generation and storage capacity. How would a travel plaza work out?

          1. JakeY says:

            And another thing is that the current stations rely on smaller buffer tanks in order to provide that that 5 minute fueling. It can’t provide that continuously (on demand compressors take more like 30 minutes to fuel).

      2. pjwood says:

        After using $.03/mile electricity, PHEVs revert to: 12,140Wh/kg.

        And if PHEVs ever get to the H2 as REx stage, all those costs will have to amortize over the 10-30% of the miles that expensive, space hungry H2 occupies.

        When you think about natural gas created H2 not making sense for even the environmentally puritanical, this doesn’t make sense at all. Tail-pipe myopia.

      3. Mike says:

        And 2 Million dollars per gas station conversion.
        And the Volt wins.

      4. JakeY says:

        There are multiple problems with that comparison.
        1) as Mint put it, hydrogen’s biggest problem was always volume not weight.
        2) a hydrogen tank is not equivalent to an EV battery. It actually takes a fuel cell, boost converter, air intake, exhaust, buffer battery, hydrogen tank, and all the necessary wiring and plumbing for those components to serve the same function as a battery.

        Just the fuel cell (56kg), tank (87.5kg), and buffer battery (41kg) is 184.5 kg total. That cuts your number to 884kWh/kg. Discount for efficiency and you end up to ~450-500Wh/kg (depending on which number you use for the EV). And this is excluding a lot of other parts. That explains why this car is relatively heavy.

    2. Mint says:

      Weight has never been the concern for H2 tanks, and not much of a concern for EVs either (20% extra weight only leads to ~10% worse economy/range).

      The 122L of space is a bigger issue, especially since it can’t be arranged into a flexible shape like Tesla’s 4″ skateboard or VW’s form-fitted pack.

      Tank volume is also fundamental to H2, while battery prototypes have demonstrated >1kWh/L.

    3. Jeff N says:

      The 650v is not a new advancement. That’s just Toyota using DC-DC voltage converter like they have for the last two generations of Prius. It lets them leverage some of their existing Prius design including stepping up the NiMH battery voltage.

  7. kdawg says:

    “Asked about just 4 seats…Toyota stated that Mirai will be more of a luxury car with comfortable rear seats.”
    ——–
    LOL. So when the Volt has 4 seats, it’s terrible, but when Toyota does it, it’s acceptable because it’s for “luxury”. Give me a break.

    1. DaveMart says:

      It looks as though you will have to stick to the Hyundai FCEV then for your purchase.

      1. kdawg says:

        No worries, as I will never buy a FCEV, and neither will most everyone else.

        It was the double standard I was pointing out.

      2. Mark H says:

        He drives a 4 seater and does not mind it. Kdawg is just stating how much grief everybody still gives the Volt over having four seats. The i3 did not catch any flack either like the Volt did.

        1. kdawg says:

          Still have my fingers crosses for 5 seats in the Gen2 Volt, just to silence some of those naysayers. Like you said, I definitely don’t need 5 seats. I’m trying to think if I’ve ever had more than 3 people in my Volt.

          1. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater says:

            Well, unless they rode in the back under the hatch, you probably didn’t.

            Now, if you were in a situation with a bunch of folks trying to figure out which vehicle to use to go someplace together, I can see it entering into the equation.

            Me, I’d rather have a hump seat than not, if only so that the rear hatch area is entirely walled off with a 40/20/40 split for maximum lack of cargo flyage in the event of a collision.

            1. Brian says:

              Every Volt I’ve ever been in can seat 4 people without tucking someone into the trunk. 4 is more than 3.

    2. sven says:

      Why the heck is there a tunnel between the two back seats? I don’t see anything in the videos that shows what is in there. In the Toyota video from yesterday it shows that both the hoses from the Hydrogen tanks to the fuel cell and the cables from the battery to the PSU/motor run along the sides of the vehicle, and not in the center were the tunnel is.

      1. sven says:

        Link to video showing routing of hoses and cables:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSxPkyZOU7E#t=72

    3. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater says:

      Plus, that console is TERRIBLE.. All of the “iPod-like” touch-sensitive suckiness of the Volt, with Toyota’s idiot Prius centralized instrument panel as well. Good grief.

      If you’re gonna go with touch-sensitive, you may as well go full-on reconfigurable screen like Tesla.

      1. sven says:

        +1 on the centralized instrument panel.

        I refuse to buy any car that doesn’t have the instrument panel in front of the driver were it should be. It will always be a deal breaker for me.

  8. kdawg says:

    $13,000 in incentives! And I bet Toyota is still losing money on every one.

    1. sven says:

      The $8,000 federal tax credit is scheduled to expire before the Mirai is released in the US. Unless Toyota can get the government to extend the credit, it will expire on 12/31/14.
      So the price goes up from $47,500 to $55,500.

      http://www.autoblog.com/2014/11/17/2016-toyota-mirai-starts-at-57-500-lease-for-499-month/

      1. sven says:

        Oops, price goes up from $45,000 to $53,000.

    2. pjwood says:

      Let’s see, 1.3bb earned in Q3.

      If $57,000 were half the actual cost of 400 cars, Toyota’s would have seen its Q3 2014 earnings fall by 00.017%

      Let the games begin.

    3. Anon says:

      Yes. They’re losing pretty big money on each unit, which makes me smile wider with each one “sold”. 😀

      1. sven says:

        Schadenfreude! 😀

  9. lzl says:

    So not impress with the trunk space.

  10. ffbj says:

    Toyota is doing a full court press with their car of the future, and it’s not a science experiment, according to them.
    Let’s see if can sell a 1k of them in the US by a year from now. Doubtful.
    With 12 hydrogen stations in CA and 12 planned for the NE, by 2016, talk about a slow boat to China, well it’s just a bad joke.

  11. Big Solar says:

    Shell Hydrogen.

    1. Mike says:

      Exactly.
      Locked In.

      Don’t get 2 EV’s and Solar and save a Fortune.

      1. Big Solar says:

        Notice how small the print on the hydrogen “pump” is where it says shell. No surprise there.

        1. Anon says:

          +100

          I think consumers will catch on quick, to the hidden, darker aspects of having hydrogen provided by the Oil Industry…

          1. Dan says:

            Why does it matter?

            The largest companies on the planet aren’t going to just disappear into the sunset. If they aren’t investing in hydrogen generation, then they will continue to push petroleum. Even if EVs completely take over, Big Oil will be building power plants to generate all the electricity for our national fleet of EVs.

            1. Brian says:

              +1

              I would rather that Shell (and others) think of itself as an energy company, not a petroleum company. Heck, if every Shell station installed a CHAdeMO/CCS combo charger, I would be thrilled! I would gladly charge my EV there while I went inside for some coffee and snacks.

              1. Big Solar says:

                I would rather they just be honest no matter what they are doing. Apparently they aren’t capable of that when it comes to making money. Why be underhanded and sneaky?

  12. mag says:

    wow. it’s sooo ugly. and expensive.

    and no one’s mentioned that hydrogen for vehicles comes from natural gas, so it’s essentially a fossil fuel, and it requires extra energy to make and deploy to a non existent infrastructure. EVs FTW.

  13. bro1999 says:

    Why would I lease the Mirai when I could lease a Hyundai Tuscon FCV for less? And it has 5 seats, CUV body style. Seems like a total fail on Toyota’s part.

  14. Brian says:

    Finally! We can have a real fuel cell car FOR SALE. Bring it on, Toyota. Let’s see how well it can compete. There is too much talk about how FCVs will “never” work, but until now that has been just that – talk. Now we’ll have a real car on the road and we’ll all see how well it works or doesn’t.

    1. David Murray says:

      Let me make my feelings clear on the matter. I think the technology works. And I’d rather see people driving around FCEVs than gasoline cars. I just don’t believe there is a market for a car that does essentially the same thing as a gasoline car that just happens to cost a lot more money. If they believe they can get the price down to something similar to a gasoline car, then we’ll talk.

      An EV can be sold for a premium because we know we’ll save a lot of money on fuel and we love the convenience of fueling up at home. I don’t think a FCEV can fetch a premium price.

      1. Taser54 says:

        Of course, these new fuel cell vehicles appear to be offered with free fuel.

      2. Dan Sciortino says:

        Agreed. However, I believe the trend will do as all others. i.e, All technology becomes useful after the bugs worked out. Of course it will work once refueling infrastructure is a reality and I’m sure further research and development will improve as time passes. It’s all a matter of physics.

  15. Surya says:

    “Range is about 300 miles and it takes 3 minutes to refuel.”
    Yes, if, if and if. So not really then.

    1. Mike says:

      And a 20 mile drive out of your way to the Hydro station: Win.

      1. Dan Sciortino says:

        We are beyond such negative thinking on this matter. The price of gasoline along with the damage of the ecology and health will make it happen. To think otherwise can not or should not overwhelm the “need” to follow through. We should have done this twenty years ago. Big Oil might resist…as they have all along, but negative policy in the implementing of this tech is an argument against logic. Arguing against logic is something i refuse to do in my life.

        1. Surya says:

          Sure, there is a need for an alternative. I’m just not convinced inefficient and expensive FC technology is the way to go.

  16. JRMW says:

    My understanding was that the FCV will not qualify for the Federal Tax credit.

    Am I wrong?

    I’m glad they dropped the price from an anticipated $70k to $57.5k.
    Given its specs I think $35-40k is a better target.

    Im surprised that they used the Toyota brand given the price. People wouldn’t think twice about a $57k Lexus. But a $57k underpowered Toyota with extremely limited range (cant leave SoCal) is a risky bet.

    I also think that mini shifter thing was a bad idea. Move it on the steering column if you want it to be small.

    This car has the same problem as the Cadillac ELR. But it can be fully fixed with a price adjustment.

    Given the massively reduced range I think it would sell well for $25k after all incentives.

    1. sven says:

      It shouldn’t qualify for the $8,000 federal tax credit, because it expires before the Mirai is released in the US. Unless Toyota can get the government to extend the credit, it will expire on 12/31/14. Maybe Toyota knows something that we don’t know.

      http://www.autoblog.com/2014/11/17/2016-toyota-mirai-starts-at-57-500-lease-for-499-month/

  17. Gibber says:

    Was this styled by three different groups of 12 year old boys? From the front it looks like the Predator from the movies years ago.

  18. Anthony says:

    The improvements Toyota is making to the fuel cell is impressive. They’ve continually improved the fuel cell while bringing down the costs.

    The part of this that sticks out as odd is the very limited production of FC vehicles over the next few years. I cant imagine they’d be much above 50K/yr by 2020. I would expect EVs/Plug-ins to be 1M units/yr by then.

    1. Omar Sultan says:

      Purely from an engineering point of view, agree, the progress on their fuel cells pretty cool. That being still not a big fan of FCEVs until they address the H2 infrastructure issue in a way that’s not dependent on public funding.

  19. David says:

    How much will it cost to refuel this car with hydrogen after the free offer expires?

    1. Anon says:

      Estimates for a Hydrogen Service Station to break even in 5 years, assumed $8.00 a gallon…

  20. Han says:

    Ah, no. I prefe home charging with Leaf.

  21. DavidCary says:

    While this car is not perfect, think about a good buyer/leaser.

    Someone with a large commute, no home charging option, that lives within 5 miles of a refueling station.

    Then $500 a month is not too bad. But the mileage limit maybe a big deal.

    There are plenty of people out there (part in Socal) where a 100 mile EV doesn’t work. This is a lot cheaper than a Tesla – at least today.

  22. Don Diego Sepulveda says:

    “In the US, the price will be slightly lower – $57,500 or $499 per month/36 month lease option, with $3649 due at lease signing”

    Almost exactly what BMW charged me for the ActiveE. But I’d be willing to bet that Toyota would actually be able to provide:

    “The vehicle will be matched by a comprehensive, 360-degree Ownership Experience offering a range of services…”

    BMW gave me a loaner (frequently), a long line of BS and a chance to lease a “Special Edition” plastic car with less range for $800 per month.

    What the hell, I’d try one. If for no other reason than to make the “EV Community” angry.

    1. The “EV Community” you want to antagonize is based on one manufacturer’s (BMW) broken and short range EVs?

      We don’t even know how difficult the H2 cars will be. They had so many issues in Vancouver, Canada during the Olympics with H2 busses, that they stopped using them. So, you won’t use H2, either?

  23. Ryan says:

    3000 total units by the end of 2017????? That isn’t even relevant! If Tesla can execute its Model 3 in 2017/18 you are talking hundreds of thousands of units. What the heck is Toyota doing?

    1. kdawg says:

      They’re distracting everyone and going for a green halo ironically using old technology.

      1. Big Solar says:

        You got that right kdawg!

  24. protomech says:

    300 miles seems optimistic for a vehicle has similar weight and capacity (onboard energy) as a 60 kWh Model S. But the Model S seems to be relatively inefficient, so perhaps Toyota can pull it off.

    Hydrogen is has a very high specific energy, but the rest of the support equipment adds significant weight. 56 kg fuel cell + 87.5 kg tank + 5 kg H2 = ~150 kg, plus whatever the NiMH battery weighs (2010+ Prius NiMH battery weighs around 50 kg). Still quite good, as I think the 60 kWh Model S battery weighs around 400 kg.

    It’s nice to see a firmer promise for a production H2 EV, and the CHAdeMO DC PTO is a very cool idea. However, the only big wins from a user perspective is the faster mid-trip refueling times (200 miles in 3-5 minutes H2 vs best case EV, 100 miles in 15-17 minutes for S85 at low SOC) and the lower subsidized price; vehicle performance, packaging, existing infrastructure, and ease of use are significant wins for the Tesla.

    Toyota perhaps will not do this, but it’d be interesting to see from GM or Hyundai a FCEV with a larger battery and a smaller fuel cell stack. Think the BMW i3, but with a smaller FC instead of a 650cc scooter engine.

  25. Mark C says:

    For the beating the Leaf took over looks, well, the Leaf is a swimsuit model compared to this. Honda made the Clarity attractive, but Toyota looks like they focused on just being the most noticable car on the street. It’s way more noticable than, say, a first year model Pontiac Aztek.

  26. JRMW says:

    Id like to point out that refueling only takes 3-5 minutes if the station is on your way. With so few of these stations many people will have to drive 1 to 15+ minutes out of their way to get to and from the station. That makes it a 5-30+ refueling time.

    This will of course improve if more stations are built.

    I think it would have been Better to focus on fleet sales at first as fleets have predictable driving patterns and could possibly manage an on site refueling station.

    They could work out the kinks and introduce to passenger vehicles as technology advances

  27. HVACman says:

    No comment on the Mirai other than it sounds like a Gen 1 Volt, except

    -it can’t recharge at home and go 40 miles on dirt-cheap electricity
    – can’t “go anywhere” you want to go, despite it’s 300 mile range.
    -uses fuel that is even more expensive than premium gas.
    – Is $57,000 instead of $35,000.

    There is a saying – “Keep your friends close, your enemies closer”. I encourage you all to learn as much about H2 as possible.

    Here is a link to the UC Davis white paper on hydrogen, which I believe is the technical driving force for Toyota’s and CARB’s otherwise inexplicable passion about hydrogen.

    http://steps.ucdavis.edu/files/08-13-2014-08-13-2014-NextSTEPS-White-Paper-Hydrogen-Transition-7.29.2014.pdf

    Read it with a critical eye and a good calculator, then come up with your own conclusions on H2’s viability.

    For my money, if this is H2’s best foot forward, do not walk, but run away from H2. A careful read of this white paper shows books are cooked.

  28. Whatever says:

    Is the $57,500 price tag a subsidized price? That would explain why they only want to sell 400 cars.

    1. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater says:

      It almost certainly is.

      BTW, to electrolyze 1kg of H2 from water (which should provide 50mi or so), it requires about 40kWh of power. Unless that power comes from a source that costs around 5c/kWh, it’ll be more economical to reform natural gas to get to a retail price of $3-4/kg of H2.

      1. FSJ says:

        That same 40kWh would take me 150 miles in my Volt.

  29. Spec9 says:

    The fact that it costs less than a Model S is impressive. But I’m a bit skeptical on that price since at this point it is limited volume test fleet, so I’m assuming that is a pretty heavily subsidized price.

  30. Whatever says:

    I feel that this car is just a distraction, Toyota is telling the world “Hey don’t look at the electric cars, look what we have here!”

    It has mediocre performance and it looks like a mess both inside and out.

    It’s practically impossible to buy. They are building some hydrogen filling stations but they won’t sell you the cars so what does it matter?

  31. Fabian says:

    I would not buy this ugly car for the price. I would spend the extra 20k and get a Tesla Model S; or just wait for the Tesla Model III to kill this non-starter off the market.

  32. AddLightness says:

    There is going to be no compelling reason for the average consumer to buy this car instead of a long range, fast charging EV or even a gasoline plug-in hybrid at half the price. Who’s going to pay more to drive an expensive car that uses fuel that will be at-best comparable to gasoline in price? EVs command a premium right now but at least they are extremely cheap to recharge, maintain, and convenient to charge at home.

  33. Foo says:

    Wow, and I thought the Leaf had the lock on ugly.

  34. DonC says:

    I’m really not liking the interior. The angles are sharp and I’m not feeling any love for the asymmetric design.

    1. QCO says:

      Looks like they accidentally mixed up a right hand drive dash version with a left hand drive steering column…..

  35. ModernMarvelFan says:

    So this car is more expensive than the Volt, slower to 60mph than the Volt and has more issues fueling than the Volt while it is about 300lbs heavier than the Volt and sits about 4 people (same as the Volt).

    Why would anyone buy this car over a Volt?

    1. Richard Joash Tan says:

      Because I WILL buy one.

      1. Big Solar says:

        Great reason.

    2. Rick says:

      Because it’s a Toyota

  36. Kaleb says:

    So basically you get a car even uglier than a Prius, with a worse interior, less range, for twice the price and you can’t refuel it at home or the gas station down the street…sounds like a winner to me.

    All that said, it’s good to have other technologies out there, I suppose I’m just bitter about Toyota’s EV bashing. Good luck to you Toyota.

    1. Sir FH says:

      for sure this H2 car can generate power to EV car.. 🙂

  37. Francis L says:

    California is really putting milions to build hydrogen station for… 3000 cars in 2017? Ok lets add those of Hyudai and possibly Honda, that’s still not a lot.

    Please California, put the money in ChaDeMo/CCS to get much more for your buck!

  38. Priusmaniac says:

    There is still that strange situation where Toyota pushes for Hydrogen cars and is not proposing hydrogen trucks where at least it could make some sense to avoid the super large size of a long haul battery. If a Tesla needs a battery of 600 Kg for 500 miles then a 30 tons truck would need a 6000 Kg battery. The cost to make that 6000 kg battery doesn’t really scale and the long haul truck is not really interested in extra acceleration performances a battery gives. On the other hand a Hydrogen tank cost is lower and even somewhat scales when larger. So for a truck this would already be a less bad idea then for cars, especially if you can replace the diesel and the associated particles emissions that have been recognized by WHO as cancer generating. The same for other big vehicles like river ships, planes and perhaps buses. Of course you are still stuck with the Hydrogen fuel but at least it is somewhat less non sense.

    1. Priusmaniac says:

      This company is already less fool than Toyota is:

      http://visionmotorcorp.com/tyrano.asp

  39. shawn marshall says:

    it is nice that Toyota has developed a car that can run on water. Water cab be electrolyzed by ‘free’ solar cell energy or off peak nuclear power. Perhaps an idusry would develop with small scale nuke plants for distributed power generation for electric and hydrogen supply. All the dire energy problems bemoaned by several generations of chicken liittles have disappeared. A kg of hydrogen may become the new gold standard since it does have a fixed value in energy. The torrent of specious comments about FC and Toyota betray a somewhat provincial prejudice inherent to many EV fans. Time will tell what will happen. Why not tip a hat to Toyota and wish them well despite your own preferences given the PRESENT state of the various technologies. IOW you do not really know what you are talking about since the future is unknown.

  40. Andrew says:

    Why would I buy a Mirai instead of a Prius? I don’t understand how it’s $30,000 more appealing. Actually, I don’t understand how it’s any more appealing whatsoever, aside from exclusivity.

  41. bro1999 says:

    F-UGLY. This abomination may actually take the crown from the Leaf as the ‘ugliest alt-fuel vehicle’. What a joke.