The CharIN Association Aims for Single System To Cover All Charging Scenarios Up To 200 kW DC

1 year ago by Mark Kane 51

Combined Charging System (CCS aka Combo) – One System for All

Combined Charging System (CCS aka Combo) – One System for All

CharIN Association

CharIN Association

Recently established CharIN Association presented an interesting brochure describing itself and the goal of providing a global standard for electric vehicle charging – CCS (Combined Charging System).

CharIN is founded by group of German manufacturers (Audi, BMW, Daimler, Mennekes, Phoenix Contact, Porsche, TUV and Volkswagen) and supported by Ford and General Motors from U.S.

CCS-members has ambitions to marginalize the CHAdeMO DC fast charging system, which doesn’t offer/allow for AC charging.

“The target of the initiative is to continuously and competently advance the combined charging system (CCS), with the aim to establish this system to the global markets. This universal charging interface for electric vehicles is mature and field-tested and is already standard in the US and Europe. It is our goal to advance standardization of CCS in other regions of the world. This is the cause and the challenge to which we, the CharIN Association, are dedicated. Because: “The best and most accepted system should be the global standard.””

The main goal is to introduce and popularize higher power DC fast charging – up to 200 kW (that’s more than the 150 kW targeted in the near-term by Audi), while at the same time keep single charging inlet for single-phase and three-phase charging.

“Why we‘re different The answer is simple: CCS is currently the world’s only charging system that covers all charging scenarios with a single product. Drivers of any type of electric vehicle can choose between normal and fast charging as well as AC (single-phase up to three-phase) and DC (up to high speed 200 kW at public charging stations) – and they only need a single system for all these options. The CCS standard is accepted and supported by a significant number of companies from different industries.”

The North American version of CCS is different because of the need to be based on a different AC charging plug (SAE J1772). In other words, European and North American vehicles will be incompatible until converted to the other standard, or until there would be a usable adapter (of which there are none).

CHAdeMO on the other hand, is the same worldwide. Like CCS, the Tesla plug is also different in NA, compared to rest of the world.

J1772 Combo (CCS in North America)

J1772 Combo (CCS in North America) Photo: InsideEVs/Michael Beinenson

CharIN Founding Members:

CharIN Founding Members

CharIN Founding Members

CharIN Association Members:

CharIN Association Members

CharIN Association Members

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51 responses to "The CharIN Association Aims for Single System To Cover All Charging Scenarios Up To 200 kW DC"

  1. Tom K says:

    I like the “one plug fits all” that my Tesla is equipped with here in the US. Minimal and effective. Maybe it’s just me but I don’t think the “frankenplug” is as practical….

    1. Speculawyer says:

      It seems fine to me. It is smaller than Chademo and it incorporates the existing popular J1772.

    2. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

      I’m sure that if they hadn’t have felt the need to support J1772 there’d be a simpler CCS in North America as well.

    3. Bill Howland says:

      2 sizes fit all.. That is if they use either plug in China and Japan. If not then 3 sizes fit all. I think..

  2. Speculawyer says:

    200KW. Drool.

    The automakers are going to have a heck of a time building battery packs that can accept that.

    The 60KWH pack size that will deliver 200+ miles for an aerodynamic car will have a tough time accepting such power. 60KWH Model S cars start charging at around 90KW and quickly drop from there according to Bjorn’s info.

    1. jsmay311 says:

      Does anyone understand what are the technical or practical hurdles to approving >50kW charging from CCS DC charging stations RIGHT NOW?

      I keep reading articles saying they’ll get to 150kW or 200kW in a few years or so. WHY THE WAIT??? If the CCS connector, pins, cables, etc. can handle the higher current, I don’t understand what the issue is. Heck, Tesla is doing 135kW today with a smaller connector.

      (And don’t say “Because there aren’t any cars w/ CCS yet that >50kW.” That may be true, but it’s no excuse. DCFC chargers installed in 2016 need to be able to charge EV’s sold in 2018, 2020, 2025, etc., unless we want to waste a ton of money switching them out after only a few years. So there’s less incentive to install CCS DCFC’s now because they’re (relatively) slow. And there’s even less incentive for automakers to sell EV’s with >50kW DC charging rates when no chargers exist to actually supply that much power.)

      1. jsmay311 says:

        Correction: Looks like SAE recently updated J1772 to allow up to 200A or current via the CCS connector. So that’s theoretically up to 100kW of power with the maximum voltage of 500V. In practice I believe it would be more like 80-90kW with lower battery pack voltages(?).

      2. Dragon says:

        The technical hurdle for fast charging would seem to be heat. Tesla had to upgrade the cooling on their packs around 2014 to support over 90kw and you still need a pack with more battery cells to take higher than 90kw for long (as mentioned the 60kwh pack doesn’t charge over 90kw for more than a few minutes even with improved cooling). To get over 135kw without increasing the size/weight of the charger cable, Tesla is testing liquid cooling the cable.

        Another technical hurdle is the connection between chargers and power pole starts to become overloaded if multiple cars are drawing 200kw+.

      3. zzzzzzzzzz says:

        In practice 120 kW CCS/Chademo chargers are available since last year. You can buy one at any time if you think you really need it.

      4. Knut Erik Ballestad says:

        As I have understood it, some types of DC chargers are modular, eg a type deployed in a charging network here in Norway already has 120kW dual-head chargers – up to 50kW CCS + up to 70kW Chademo

        The reason for stopping at these levels is stated as
        – “No CCS cars currently supports more than 50kW, and no Chademo cars supports more than 70kW”.
        – “We will update the charging stations with additional 10kW modules as the market is able to utilise the extra power”

        To me, these statments says that there is no real technical issues limiting DC fast charging to 50kW.

        1. zzzzzzzzzz says:

          This one supports 120 kW at each CCS or Chademo plug although you would pay extra for extra modules go to full 120 kW:
          http://arcticroads.com/nyheter/opens-120-kw-ev-charger-to-the-public/
          http://www.evtec.ch/files/7114/2523/5982/espressocharge_EN.pdf
          Yes there are no cars that can use this power with standard charger so there is no point to push for wide deployment of higher power chargers right now. Cars should be shown first.

  3. Eric W says:

    I think the US should switch to the European CCS with Type 2 adapter and then get China to do the same. Sure early adopters cars will need a Bag of Adapters in their trunk (My Tesla already has a J1772, CHAdeMO and Tesla, plus 14-50, 110 volt, 6-30 outlet plugs) adding a CCS2 and Type 2 adapter won’t bother me or the car much. It Does Not mean Tesla (or existing J1772) has to change / replace any Superchargers / Destination chargers. Just at some point in the future new installations will be dual plug capable (like CCS and CHAdeMO today), then eventually just CCS.

    It is for the greater good! Starting 5 years from now all Cars worldwide could be built with the same standard up to 200KW+ (saw design goals 300KW and 500KW). Now one less issue for going Electric for the 99.5% who have yet to do so.

    Of course, that wireless option of up to 200KW (http://insideevs.com/momentum-dynamics-to-deliver-200-kw-wireless-charging-for-electric-buses-this-year/) might also make for a good standard also. Much easier for Autonomous Cars to charge and leave parking spot, NO robotic sake required. If we are dreaming and money is No object, why not both, cover all future scenarios 🙂

    1. Speculawyer says:

      1. SparkEV says:

        Specu”lawyer” posts a picture with a caption that says “world without lawyers”?

        1. Speculawyer says:

          Q. What do you call 10,000 dead lawyers on the bottom of the ocean?
          A. A good start.

          😉

          1. Bill Howland says:

            1). What is the difference between a Lawyer and a Hooker?

            2). How can you tell that your Lawyer is fibbing?

            The basic tech and non-tech problem with these things is who is going to pay for it?

            Tesla solved that problem because Wall St. Loves Tesla.

            (ans: 1). The hooker stops screwing you when you die.
            2). His lips are moving. )

    2. Dragon says:

      While I agree we should have one standard, there’s no way I would ever willingly trade my single, small, light, lovely Tesla charger cable for the big, heavy, ugly frankenplug. I’m still convinced that gas car makers voted for frankenplug to help slow down EV adoption. Tesla’s plug proves there’s no technical reason you can’t use one plug for both AC and high power DC.

      1. Zumaduma says:

        The charging cable is basically the same. Well, in Europe at least, where Tesla has adopted the type 2-connector.

        The DC pins are not present on removable cables, as they are only ever used on fast chargers, which have these connectors on the permanently installed cable.

  4. Speculawyer says:

    Hey . . . where is Fiat/Chrysler on that li . . . SERGIO! AAARRrrgh.

    1. TomArt says:

      😀

    2. mike says:

      Fiat is waiting for Tesla to prove it can be done

      1. Dragon says:

        But Tesla’s already done it. Fiat just has to add Italian style to Tesla’s charger plug and rule the market.

  5. Joshua Burstyn says:

    Tesla connector already does ac and dc?

    1. Joshua Burstyn says:

      And it is smaller than the CCS connector?!?

    2. Mike I says:

      Yes. The SuperCharger and CHAdeMO adapter from Tesla both use DC through their car’s single small port.

    3. sveno says:

      And get this: the Euro model has a Mennekes Type2 inlet that does both AC and DC and also does ChaDeMo DC with a adapter!

      It is hard to comprehend why other cars dont do this.

      1. zzzzzzzzzz says:

        It tops at some 135 kW with a stretch, as Tesla Type 2 has a bit extended connectors. CCS is aiming to standardize at 350 kW, 200 kW is just now.

    4. Speculawyer says:

      Tesla has certainly made a few mistakes . . . but overall, Tesla has made AMAZINGLY good long-term planning decisions with their Model S.

      They made some decisions that I thought were stupid at the time but Tesla was right and I was wrong.

  6. alohart says:

    I would like all connectors to support 1- and 3-phase AC. North American public charging stations at commercial sites likely have access to 3-phase power, so why not support 3-phase charging in North America as in Europe and elsewhere? If Tesla’s European connector is capable of 200 kW, why not adopt it as the worldwide standard since it is smaller than the European CCS connector?

    1. Mike I says:

      It was short-sighted by American automakers through SAE to choose J1772. European car makers lobbied for the Mennekes Type-2 connector for American cars, but SAE didn’t go for it. Actually, 50kW of existing fast chargers can be easily handled by the “DC-Mid” mode on the Mennekes connector. They use 2 pins for each DC+ and DC-. This is the approach that Tesla uses for their European SuperChargers too. Tesla passes more than 100kW from the SuperCharger to the car without the extra DC-High pins below.

    2. Chris says:

      Alohart – because CharIn founding member Phoenix Contact would go out of business if your idea were adopted.

    3. zzzzzzzzzz says:

      I didn’t heard Tesla EU plug can support 200 kW. Currently it is 135 kW for short time with modified plug. New Audi and Porsche battery cars are going with 300 kW. Obviously 2 extra dedicated DC connectors in CCS allows for higher power.

  7. SparkEV says:

    If 60 kWh battery can charge at 3.2C, that would be 192 kW. That’s enough to take it to 80% in 15 minutes (assume no taper to 80% like SparkEV). That would pretty much make gas cars obsolete.

  8. Kdawg says:

    It would be nice if they could modify the CCS plug so it’s just the 2 big pin connections. Remove the J1772 portion. That would make it a sleek design like Tesla’s.

    1. Anon says:

      You’d lose data lines that allow the vehicle and charger to initiate, negotiate and terminate a transfer. An EV’s L2 / L3 charge port carries just more than power.

      1. Kdawg says:

        Leave one small pin for the comm.

        1. SparkEV says:

          Technically, you don’t need additional pin for comm. Only two pins are needed with CCS (homeplug protocol) as the communication signals go over power wires, maybe third for ground.

          1. scott franco (No M3 FAUX GRILL!) says:

            You can modulate via the power cable, but engineers don’t like it, neither do regulators. To much work to prove out that you have truly isolated the signal and high power sides.

            1. zzzzzzzzzz says:

              Technically it can be done using wireless infrared communication as for example in SAE J2799.

  9. Seth says:

    Yeah, I wondered why they didn’t decide to go with the EU plug, it has enough pins and is signaling compatible. 3 Phase would be fine too, but limited to 32A. I don’t think there’s a commercial car except that Tesla that does over 32A on the socket.

    Any new car that doesn’t have a Type-2 socket can use an adapter or a extension cord.

    For that purpose I have a type-2 to j1772 cable for my i-Miev in NL, all the public charge points have Type-2 plugs. The signaling is the same either way.

    It seem like there is quite a difference between the US and the EU, we just have sockets and everyone brings their own cable. The US seems to have quite a few chargepoints with fixed cables.

    The CCS plug was their one shot at making a world car plug, and they flipped it.

    For pure grace value the US Tesla plug is the smallest. Although in the EU it uses the type-2 like everything else that is made recent.

    Well, no, the Leaf is still sold in NL with a J1772 and a Chademo, so go, standards, go.

    Meh.

    1. jsmay311 says:

      The EU (Mennekes) plug was developed and adopted AFTER the US had adopted the SAE J1772 plug. It was adopted specifically since the J1772 plug didn’t allow for 3-phase power and 3-phase is more common in Europe. So, in a sense, it was too late for the US/North America to change course and switch to the Mennekes plug at that point.

    2. arne-nl says:

      “I don’t think there’s a commercial car except that Tesla that does over 32A on the socket.”

      The Renault Zoe R210 does 3x63A AC fast charge over the standard Mennekes plug.

    3. Bill Howland says:

      No offense meant, but Europeans complaining about plugs is rather a joke when talking about anything OTHER than EV’s, there are totally different plugs for different countries where the power systems are pretty close to being identical so that inter-country power sales are facilitated.

      I’m guessing SAE didn’t go for it since most places in the states only need 2 ac power wires, and the combo plug is an easy fix worldwide.

      People will disagree, but I bet CCS wins ultimately on the lower cost per vehicle.

      Its not any more complicated than that.

  10. TomArt says:

    hmmm…”the best” is Tesla’s charging technology…

  11. Chris says:

    Tesla made a smart move joining CharIn Association for CCS. Tesla’s game plan might involve adding two additional DC pins below the existing 7pins socket (in the EU) which gives their cars unrivalled utility.

    1. Maybe they can put those two big DC pins on the side of the car, one on each side. And make them look like bolts…

  12. ydnas7 says:

    To the German automakers (ie VW and BMW), CCS was an important attempt to get European industrial control over DC charging infrastructure.

    To the American automakers, CCS was a nil cost Fabian delaying tactic versus Japanese electric vehicles.

    For the Americans, the ruse has worked well. They have effectively confused and delayed public rollout of EV DC infrastructure in USA. But for the Europeans, the ruse has become reality (itself has backfired).

    Tesla, like Japanese Chademo and Chinese GBT has adopted CAN based DC charging, So it is relatively easy for Tesla to promote global Supercharger rollout, and embrace Chademo/GBT infrastructure in Europe, China, Japan and America

    VW and BMW had the choice. Do they cut their cut off their own noses and do it alone, Or do they now align with Nissan and roll out Chademo/CCS chargers on 2-3 continents (USA, Africa (and probably Australia).

    So the ruse became reality, in trying to marginalize Chademo, VW/BMW are now doing their part to fund Chademo/CCS public charging!

    Meanwhile, Tesla has over 330k model 3 reservations. Most likely strongly biased to USA ownership, the relevance of German EVs seems to keep fading in the American context. China’s standard will become the global standard along the ‘one belt, one road) Chinese silk road. Leaving CCS standing in Europe, but as a perpetual handicap in USA, and irrelevant everywhere else. Yet even in Europe, Chademo capable car outsell CCS capable cars by about 3 to 1. So CCS as morphed into a Fabian delay against the German automakers themselves.

    The English colloquialism is
    ‘they shot themselves in the foot.’

    wheres Tesla’s CAN based supercharger is
    ‘a shot in the arm’ (ie a boost)

    1. Interesting perspective. Thanks for that.

      I will add that this isn’t the first attempt at a PR campaign for CCS in Germany. This current effort just appears to be more organized. CHAdeMO has been organized for many years, and quietly and methodically has managed to stay on top.

  13. scott franco (No M3 FAUX GRILL!) says:

    All I can say is remember Betamax vs. VHS. Ie., big and ugly beats small and beautiful if you have enough manufacturers on the side of big and ugly. And large, multiparty agreements tend to generate big and ugly.

  14. arne-nl says:

    “CCS is currently the world’s only charging system that covers all charging scenarios with a single product.”

    It’s how you look at it. The Renault Zoe only has a standard Mennekes plug over which it handles fast charge, up to 43 kW. So that is a single solution covering all scenarios from L1 to QC over 1 plug.

    Whether or not you call 43 kW ‘fast’ is another matter. For now I think it qualifies, but in the future it won’t. I can not judge whether the Renault solutions scales above 3x63A. My guess is therefore that Renault will go with CCS in the not too distant future.