Tesla Solar Roof and Powerwall 2 Reveal, Details & Gallery

4 months ago by Jay Cole 165

Tesla CEO Elon Musk at solar roof/Powerwall 2 event in LA

Tesla CEO Elon Musk at solar roof/Powerwall 2 event in LA

Tesla's New Powerwall 2.0 - 14 kWh from $5,500

Tesla’s New Powerwall 2.0 – 14 kWh from $5,500

From a live event in Los Angeles, Tesla CEO Elon Musk took to the stage to introduce the company’s new 14 kWh Powerwall 2 energy storage solution (details below) and solar glass roof.

Also: Watch the live reveal event here (now available on replay loop)

From “Textured Glass Tile” to “Slate Glass Tile” to “Tuscan Glass Tile” to “Smooth Glass Tile“, Tesla is selling almost a fashion statement solar roof.

No more clunky panel installations are envisioned for new solar roofs…or roofs at all.

Tesla CEO Elon Musk says that his company’s solar roof should last two to three times longer than a traditional roof.

“We expect this to have two or three times the longevity of asphalt. It’s really never going to wear out. It’s got a quasi-infinite lifetime. It’s made of quartz.”

Tesla Solar Roof Glass Tile Options

Tesla Solar Roof Glass Tile Options

Tesla statement on the new solar product:

Tesla Solar Roof In "French Slate Glass"

Tesla Solar Roof In “Slate Glass Tile”

“The solar roof consists of uniquely designed glass tiles that complement the aesthetics of any home, embedded with the highest efficiency photovoltaic cells. It is infinitely customizable for a variety of different home styles, each uniquely engineered so that the photovoltaic cells are invisible.

Customers can choose which sections of their roof will contain the hidden solar technology while still having the entire roof look the same. These new roofs will seamlessly and beautifully supply renewable energy to homes, battery storage systems and back into the grid creating savings for owners.

When combined with Tesla Powerwall, the solar roof can power an entire home with 100% renewable energy.”

Of interest: Tesla and SolarCity didn’t just show off the new roofing product via video roll and a small demonstrater set-up, but rather converted several actual prop houses, normally used for TV and movies fitted with new roofs At Universal Studios in Los Angles.  One might remember them as some of the homes in Desperate Housewives.

Tesla's Elon Musk subtly meantions earth's CO2 situation...and the need for renewable energy sources - such as solar

Tesla’s Elon Musk subtly mentions earth’s CO2 situation…and the need for renewable energy sources – such as solar

The solar roof of course isn’t cheap, but Musk says over time it will be more affordable than a standard roof and the cost of power.

“The goal is to have solar roofs that look better than normal roofs, generate electricity, last longer, have better insulation, and actually have an installed cost that is less than a regular roof plus the cost of electricity.  Then, why would you build anything else?”

Elon Musk introduces new Powerwall 2.0 from $5,500 from the stage at Universal Studios in Los Angeles, California

Elon Musk introduces new Powerwall 2.0 from $5,500 from Universal Studios in Los Angeles, California

Naturally, Tesla suggests pairing its solar roof with its new 14 kWh Powerwall unit (technically 13.5 kWh usable), which also has a 7 kW output rating.

The new energy storage solution will retail for $5,500 – but we should note that the system now also comes equipped with a Tesla-made (at the Gigafactory) inverter included in the package.

The latest Tesla Powerwall starts shipments this December.  Full specs can be found below – Tesla’s new Powerall 2.0 page can be found here.

Tesla Powerwall 2.0 Specs

Tesla Powerwall 2.0 Specs

Tesla Powerwall 2 Install

Tesla Powerwall 2 Install

You'll want to tell your neighbors about your "cool" roof!

You’ll want to tell your neighbors about your “cool” roof!

Tesla says that you can start ordering your own solar roof today, but that installations are next expected until Summer of 2017.

Musk states, “if you are building a new house, or you are redoing your house, this is the way to go.”

Costing of the tiles and installation (which can vary by region) is not yet available – and the same goes for the efficiency of the tiles or the cost/per watt – but we will of course update with that information as soon as it is known.  In the meantime,  check out Tesla new solar roof solutions page here.

Check more examples of solar glass roofing solutions below:

Tesla "Tucson Glass Tile" Solar Roof

Tesla “Tuscan Glass Tile” Solar Roof

Tesla "Smooth Glass Tile" Solar Roof

Tesla “Smooth Glass Tile” Solar Roof

Tesla "Slate Glass Tile" Solar Roof

Tesla “Slate Glass Tile” Solar Roof

Tesla "Textured Glass Tile" Solar Roof

Tesla “Textured Glass Tile” Solar Roof

Cutaway of Tesla solar roof tiles:

Anatomy of the Solar Roof

Anatomy of the Solar Roof

 

 

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173 responses to "Tesla Solar Roof and Powerwall 2 Reveal, Details & Gallery"

  1. Four Electrics says:

    What’s the efficiency as compared to SunPower panels?

    1. cmina says:

      Definitely lower I’d say .. what’s the cost per watt would be more interesting .. and, how does the surface of the whole roof play in on this (does it make up for cell density loss ’cause of the other elements of a shingle ?)

    2. Rob Stark says:

      Probably the same.

      Silevo and Panasonic both have separate tech for ~22% panels.

    3. Alaa says:

      Who cares about the efficiency now? The surface area of the roof is large enough to to put more cells than you will need. In fact I would use less efficient cells so long as it is cheaper and it will give me what I need from the sun to electricity.

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        “Who cares about the efficiency now?”

        Well of course, the most important question is $/watt, and efficiency is irrelevant to that. But anyone with limited roof area is going to be interested in knowing how efficient these tiles are.

        “The surface area of the roof is large enough to to put more cells than you will need.”

        It is never, ever possible to make such a blanket statement about whether or not everybody will have enough surface area on their roof. There are a large number of variables: Which way the roof faces, amount of shade from nearby buildings and/or trees, latitude, number of sunny days vs. cloudy days, and how much roof area there is vs. the energy needs of the home.

        For example, a family with two BEVs in the garage, or two long-range PHEVs (i.e., Chevy Volts) is gonna need a lot more electricity every day, and therefore a lot more surface area of solar panels/tiles, than a family which owns only gasmobiles.

        And of course, there’s the matter of people who live in apartment buildings, where their share of the roof area is much, much smaller than it is for a single family dwelling or a duplex.

        A large number of significant variables indeed; waaaay beyond just “Your mileage may vary”.

        1. abetancort says:

          Every body got it wrong? What had made solar uncompetitive vs wired electricity has been the on going maintenance costs of the structure and attachments that are needed for the traditional solar panels.

          By making the structure for the new solar panels coincide with that of the house, ceteris paribus, the cost of maintenance is already a sunk cost and should not be factored in which would make solar cheaper (without subsidies) than wired electricity. I repeat that is if nothing thing else were to change, an that is a lot to assume.

        2. Mike says:

          You are 100% Right..
          No way it will work for “City” people
          as they don’t have the square foot needed.

          And what happens with cloudy days, you get
          5-10% even worst with “mono” panels..

      2. pjwood1 says:

        Roof surface is generally not enough to offset kwh use. If it does, on average, you need to balance seasonal sun, and high HVAC needs just when then the sun isn’t shining. You need a lot more than 14kwh for that. You need a bank, or to keep your grid connection.

        It’s easy to say “roof size is big enough”, if you’ve still got that wire from the pole, and use the utility as the battery.

        AZ has close to 50 cent peak rates and 5 cent off-peak. That’s an extreme case of where a battery brings more arbitrage pay-back, from load shifting, but other areas where you save less than a dime, per nightly kwh shift, are hard ways to break-even when you’re paying $5500/14 per kwh.

        1. KUD says:

          It is all a question of how efficient your house is. My 60’s Split level used 15,000 KWH a year when I bought it in ’05. I am now at 9,000 KWH a year (not counting my VOLT). And my 6.6 KW Solar System (installed in ’10) has me net zero 4 out of 5 years. And yes I run my AC in the summer.

          1. sven says:

            That’s great. Too many people fail to improve the efficiency of their houses to cut their electric usage.

        2. speculawyer says:

          Uh . . . my not very big system has generated more electricity than I use for 3 years in a row.

          That said, I do have natural gas for heating, stove, hot water, and dryers.

          But if I installed more panels and heat pump system, I might still be able to break even without natural gas heating, hot water, and dryers. (I’d keep the gas stove though, that’s not that much output and I like cooking with gas.)

  2. fasterthanonecanimagine says:

    14 kWh Powerwall unit … I try to imagine 5 such units built into Model 3 – nice range.

    1. Goaterguy says:

      Ha! I thought something similar when I saw that. What if I strap one of those bad boys in the back of my Volt, double the range?

  3. DJ says:

    So in short no innovation on the solar roof front. Like I’ve been saying, despite those in the Tesla cult saying I’m wrong, is that solar shingles are not new. They have been around for some time. Yes they are more aesthetically pleasing than panels on your roof but they have some inherent problems.

    First off the quotes I received to install solar shingles were notably more than panels and a new roof so I question the whole “affordable” part of the claim. Not shocking that both materials and labor cost more (even when factoring in a ro

    Second, not everyone needs their entire roof to be a “solar roof” so what you put solar shingles on part but regular roof on the other? Clearly that is the solution Elon suggests to put it on the entire roof, even the N facing roof from the pic.

    Third, efficiency compared to most panels are less and especially when you compare the cost per the kW generated (even factoring in a new roof). The efficiency however isn’t the real killer as you can admittedly put more coverage of shingles than you can panels given fire department regulations.

    Fourth, in the summer months the mounted panels actually shade the roof keeping the house cooler. The same can’t be said for the shingles.

    Fifth, with a mounted panel system you can easily easily identify a bad panel and swap in/out a panel should the need arise (although it is admittedly a small likelihood). With solar shingles the same can not be said.

    There are more but those are the big ones.

    So in the end you’ve got an admittedly more aesthetic solution that isn’t as reliable, as easily serviceable all the while being more costly.

    I actually looked in to them a lot when I went with solar earlier in the year because I was going to replace the part of the roof I was putting panels on just in case as the shingles were somewhat old but the downside was too great. Compounding my problem is that I only have one southern facing roof and a lot of trees around me so I actually had to go with Sunpower to get the generation I wanted. The only other option was to add more panels on to a north facing roof that even when going with cheaper panels cost more than Sunpower because I needed so many more of them so to many mounted panels even if for only this reason may be the better choice.

    All this said though I definitely welcome more players offering up alternative products. Like I said they are aesthetically pleasing and while I don’t think my PV system is particularly unpleasing to the eye hope that they can get more people signed up with solar.

    1. cmina says:

      Dude, you forgot to mention in the beginning of your post that they were late as usual and that you have better things to do with your time than spending it waiting on these guys showing solar shingles ..
      C’mon, be more consistent when spewing all this crap ..

      1. DJ says:

        What crap? All it took was a 1 min read. No need to wait for Tesla when they’re late again. Don’t hate just because it is the truth 🙂

        1. Jelloslug says:

          You must have just skimmed the article if you missed the part were Musk said that you can choose which glass panels have the solar cells in them.

          1. DJ says:

            I didn’t actually. Do you for 1 minute think that some glass panel is going to be cheaper than what they are trying to mimic??

            1. Jelloslug says:

              Yes, a glass panel with no solar panel parts is going to be cheaper than a glass panel with solar panel parts.

            2. sven says:

              The glass tiles without solar are claimed by Tesla to last 2 to 3 times longer than a traditional roof. Asphalt shingles, I believe have a 20-year expected life, so the Tesla’s solarless glass tiles will supposedly last 40 to 60 years. If Tesla’s glass tiles without solar cost 1/2 to 1/3 installed, they would break even with traditional roofing shingles, not factoring in the time value of money or inflation.

              From the article above:
              “Tesla CEO Elon Musk says that his company’s solar roof should last two to three times longer than a traditional roof.”

              1. DJ says:

                My asphalt shingle roof was 30 years old and was still rated good. Obviously where you live plays in to it but with PV panels degrading in say 30 years what happens to your solar roof? You have an aesthetically pleasing roof that generates little to no power?

                Furthermore the slate, terra cotta, and concrete roof tiles will last not indefinitely but a long damn time, way longer than 50 years. PV panels also shield asphalt shingles from the elements so they will last even longer.

                I genuinely question whether these solar roof shingles will “last” 2-3 longer than a normal roof all the while still generating acceptable levels of energy.

                Then again most people don’t live in their house for 40 to 60 years so who really is gonna go after Tesla for their false claims??

                1. sven says:

                  Elon will be long gone by then, living of Mars well out of reach from the long arm of the law. 😀

                2. Knut Erik Ballestad says:

                  “My asphalt shingle roof was 30 years old and was still rated good. Obviously where you live plays in to it but with PV panels degrading in say 30 years what happens to your solar roof? You have an aesthetically pleasing roof that generates little to no power?”
                  – after 30 years the solar panels should output ~75-80% of original output – that is way more than ‘little to no power’!

                  “Furthermore the slate, terra cotta, and concrete roof tiles will last not indefinitely but a long damn time, way longer than 50 years. PV panels also shield asphalt shingles from the elements so they will last even longer.”
                  – Glass should last close to indefinitely, so as a roof you should be in the clear for a lifetime – although you will get slightly less power generated over time.
                  I grew up in a house with 70 years old glass windows

                  Terra cotta and concrete tiles have greatly varying lifespan, depending on the amount of acidic rain. So in an area with little fossil fuel emissions, they should last a very long time, in my area though, these kinds of tiles typically lasts 40 years untreated, and 70+ if cleaned & painted every 10-20 years.

                  “I genuinely question whether these solar roof shingles will “last” 2-3 longer than a normal roof all the while still generating acceptable levels of energy.”
                  – depends a lot on what a ‘normal’ roof is I guess, and on your local climate and pollution setting. But, if you check out me reference below, you see that energy output should be around 65% even after 50 years.

                  “Then again most people don’t live in their house for 40 to 60 years so who really is gonna go after Tesla for their false claims??”
                  – or who would really go after *your* probalbly false claims in this forum 😉 ?

                  ref: http://energyinformative.org/lifespan-solar-panels/

                  “The majority of manufacturers offer the 25-year standard solar panel warranty, which means that power output should not be less than 80% of rated power after 25 years.”

                  So, with continued linear degradation, the tiles should output ~65% of installed effect after 50 years.

        2. Bryan Whitton says:

          I agree with DJ in this case. There are many issues left off. However, this was a press release. I wouldn’t expect that all issues would be addressed.

          Of the remaining issues my question is regarding the inverter. I work in the inverter industry and cells/modules are really passe these days. The cost is so low that they are almost irrelevant. With Smart Grid and Rapid Shutdown requirements the inverter is what it is all about. I see with something like this a very complex installation. String inverters without optimizers are likely to be gone in a couple of years due to Rapid shutdown requirements. With smart grid requirements giving utilities control over output the developmental costs of an inverter is getting too much to simply do an in-house development. Musk may disagree with me on this point though.

      2. HeisenberghtNUTS says:

        To me it appears that DJ made some well thought ARGUMENTS about the setbacks one has when installing solar tiles instead of panels.

        I agree in large parts with DJ, and it will be interesting to see numbers. Price per watt and efficiency. As much as I like Tesla this product seems too much like the model X… Over engineered for the masses. It’s nice to have that option for the rich people and hopefully the tech will trtickle down to the mainstream market.

        That fancy roof is just that: A fancy roof! (with the typical setbacks fancy things bring… )

        Nonetheless the new powerwall seems to be the thing to talk about… It is not fancy but the specs and the price look quite nice!

        Less spewing crap! More discussion?

        1. MikeM says:

          I have to agree with DJ and Heisenberg.
          In addition consider this:

          The typical solar module contains 72 cells – all interconnected in series with the connections welded, encapsulated (and weatherproofed) within the module.
          Now imagine a very much larger number of single cell solar tiles – x72 in effect. That’s 72 times as many electrical connections to make manually upon installation.
          Looking carefully at the video at 11:14 and 11:26 does seem to show that a tile = a single cell.
          This looks like an installation and maintenance nightmare.

          Now add the fact that the efficiency MUST be lower than a typical solar module using the same cells.
          This is evident from the visible area “wastage” and additionally from the optically selective glass shenanigans providing the aesthetics.

          These tiles may have some interesting modern tech features, but they seem to have some of the same downsides as the failed solar tiles of yesteryear.

          This concept looks naïve: And that’s worrying!

          1. a-kindred-soul says:

            It is interesting how a large group of people cannot help but criticize anything Tesla proposes. Of course it all started with these people thinking it was crazy of Musk to invest his Paypal-money into electric cars (and rockets). Of course that would never work. Now they don’t see how a solar roof that for the first time has become beautiful could ever be useful, work correctly and be profitable for Tesla. When they finally see it with their own eyes they say, as before: “Okay then, but it’s just a plaything for the rich.”

            Stop looking at how things worked in the past. Massage your brain cells a bit and try understand how the future could look like…soon.

            1. steven says:

              Yeah, I’ve noticed that too.

              1. DJ says:

                Actually there are both criticisms and praises based on real world facts not some presentation given by Elon. Solar shingles haven’t failed, they just aren’t as cost effective and have more maintenance issues long term. They are also more aesthetically pleasing.

                What is more amazing to me is how so many people think Tesla poops roses and unicorns and for some reason lose sight of reality anytime Elon ones his mouth.

                On a side note I just saw that guy speak. Someone needs to hook him up with the local Distinguished Speakers club!

            2. AlphaEdge says:

              He brings up some good points and all you can mention is conspiracy and insults. No wonder people think Tesla is a cult.

              How about a counter argument?

              We tend to learn from people who criticize.

              1. sven says:

                You all on InsideEVs must be geniuses and PhDs after reading all my critiques of Tesla over the years. 😀

            3. Heisenberght says:

              Please read some other statements I made about Tesla and their products, maybe you will notice that I am close to be one of those “cultists”

              In fact I am disappointed by this product because its focus is too much on the design. Most people I talk to about solar system really don’t care about the “aestetics” but want to know what they get for their bucks. (this might be due to the fact that solar systems are quite common where I live and people just got used to their look…)

              While some commenters here claim that efficiency doesn’t matter, I really have to wonder. No matter how much roof area I have, efficient is better.

              The reason why I critizize Tesla this time is because I believe they could have done better! Tesla is a great company and they have enough knowledge in house to design an all in one solution. And yes that includes v2g, and powerwall2vehicle and if they really want fancy stuff (in order to get investors) they could have put the fancyness into the smart home controller app.

              All points “those people who can only critizize Tesla” made are valid concerns from a technological background.
              You don’t even bother to say how you think Tesla has solved these things.
              Instead you put DJ and MikeM and me in the Tesla-basher corner. (there are other names that come to my mind, I furthermore think that only “pushy” is allowed to identify “serial Tesla bashers” because he has read every single thread concerning tesla and has a shortcut for “serial fud posting tesla basher” 😉 )

              Thank you for your attention.

              Maybe you want to join the conversation about the technological side of the product? What do you think about what we 3 said?

              1. MDEV says:

                Exactly solar panels weren’t appealing to everyone bc they are fugly, however now is appealing to anyone who can afford it, this is a great option for people like me that love technology but also aesthetics.

            4. sven says:

              Hey a-kindred-soul,

              You should consider changing your screen name to a-kindred-troll. 🙁

          2. pjwood1 says:

            You mean, tougher to maintain like Christmas lights?

          3. zzzzzzzzzz says:

            I’m not fan of Musk, but panel cost isn’t major issue in residential installation at least in the US. As long as he can make glass shingles themselves cheap enough without solar element, it should sell. It gives uniform appearance to the house, it is more or less architect grade solution, not clumsy add-on destroying all views. Just 4 choices, but it is still better than other solar shingle offerings before.

            Well, here is the problem, meeting over-optimistic cost estimates is not a strong part of Musk. If it can’t be made to match cost of other roofing materials, it is another “chicken wings” for Model X.

            And the elephant in the room is the problem that residential rooftop solar makes little sense for society at wide scale. Utility grade solar is so much cheaper, approaching some 4 or 3 cents per kWh PPA. What is the point for electric grid to pay 13+ cents for your rooftop solar that doesn’t have any triple benefit, just the same solar?

            1. Heisenberght says:

              Talking about society… Wouldn’t it be better for society if there was no monopoly in the production of electricity?

              Residential rooftop solar will destroy such monopoly structure.

              Residential rooftop solar does not need additional land.

              Residential rooftop solar combined with home backup (powerwall) makes the grid more stable and could even add black start capacity, thereby reducing the risks that result from a mayor blackout.

              Utility grade just keeps the power (see what I did…) where it is right now.

              Well there are some positives for the utility grade systems but personally I really like to be independent.

    2. Rob Stark says:

      Much better looking than the Dow shingles and probably cheaper with better efficiency but we won’t know til later.

    3. HeisenberghtNUTS says:

      “Dude, you forgot to mention ” 😉 that with solar panels you have by far less points of failure (connectors). In electrical installations one normally tries to reduce the number of contacts.

      I have to take the risk that I will be accused to jump on the “there will be a fire!” train or “spewing crap” but to my best knowledge loose contacts are not something someone wants in any electrical installations… When I look at my roof I have to say: there is movement (this movement is obviously low enough to don’t scare me, but from the engineering standpoint it seems not neglible)

      Having said all that and agreed with other points you made, I still conclude in not being able to say that one or the other solution is superior. Both have setbacks, and from my personal experience the “fancy” solution often has more… But that is just my personal experience.

    4. Jim Whitehead says:

      Wow, you have not even given Tesla’s new ones a chance. You need to toss your attitude in the trash and look at it from a purely financial perspective, of someone who has built and remodeled a dozen homes.

      Tesla shingles can be pretty awesome, IF their cost per watt is comparable to the panels. You also save over $7K because you never build the asphalt or other roofs.

      Details: Today a cheap new roof costs me at least US $7K. A mid-sized house using solar + battery might cost me about $30K (using non-union labor, not in CA). My net cost diff. is just ~$23K more. But I get a 30% (US) solar tax credit of about $9K, so my net cost is just ~$14K more than a conventional roof! Lets assume a 50% markup to the customer so it costs YOU about $21K more.

      Suppose you are looking to buy a new home, and I give you a choice: Normal new house of $300K OR same house with $21K option getting solar + battery that covers daily use. The “normal” home financed monthly PITI loan is about $1647 here in VA. The loan is $1741 for the house with almost 0 electric bill. So, built invisibly into a 30 year loan, it costs you $96 more a month to wipe out almost all your electric bills!

      Even better, you tell your local monopoly power grid to shove it; they can’t jack up your bills. Your 30 year fixed loan stays fixed. Also, when your neighborhood power lines go down (about twice a year for me), you still have power!

      In my example, my normal, efficient new home in VA has an electric bill about $240 a month. With Solar + battery, your bill may drop to about $40 a month average during winter, a net savings of $100. In the summer, you may have NO electric bill!

      Saving you money every month, built invisibly into a loan is a no-brainer, dude! People will love this new option!

      1. DJ says:

        I only looked at it from a financial perspective and went with a reroof and mounted panels as a result.

        Time will tell what these truly cost but anyone who knows Tesla has a pretty good reason to think they won’t be cheap.

      2. pjwood1 says:

        Jim, How much battery do you think you’ll need to be off grid in VA, just for January? Do you have ground mounts, too?

        1. Jim Whitehead says:

          pjwood1, my guess is that you would have to double to triple up everything to go off grid. To get 99% reliability, you have to design the system for worst case assumptions of a storm in winter, etc.

          Going off grid means you will be left with a system costing at least $60K that has double the power needed most of the year, and no place to dump the excess power. Most people would sell it to VA Dominion Power, if allowed.

          Another cool strategy here in VA, is to wait until prices fall on the roof, but buy the Powerwall 2 battery right away. Why? Dominion power has a supercheap late night rate of 3 to 5 cents per kWh for EV vehicle owners, vs 12 cents normally. So if you have (or borrow) an EV, you can cut your power costs by 2/3, which means a financed battery should pay off its own loan in a few years, and save you money thereafter. (It has a 10 year warranty).

          The solar roof is likely to be really pricey and upscale at first, then after competition arrives, you will probably get it for half price.

          Advice? If my cheapskate mom asked me, (she is from the Great Depression), I would tell her to get the battery now in VA, go to the EV night rate only, pay it off fast in savings to get very little power bill for probably the rest of her life (and get the 30% tax credit upfront). Her roof is pretty new; I would tell her to wait to buy the new solar roof in a few years, after solar prices crash, possibly in half!

          1. Tom says:

            Ultimately the solution that benefits the utility will win and not the one that fights the utility. It will probably have to go utility by utility so create an off peak strategy similar to the one you propose for battery backup. My utility offers a cheap rate if you heat your house with electric. It has a dual heat thing with gas and is peak demand load controlled. I asked them why not just install the same monitoring/control equipment on a 220 outlet in people’s garages and give them that for electric cars. They argued too complicated and too costly etc. I said no, just use the same stupid controls. They hadn’t thought of that. Their whole goal is to sell more power without increasing the peak. The batteries and electric cars allow that if they got in on the deal and get to control the flow a bit and even ask for the power back to help balance peak load. Utilities are just first thinking of this but I think it will come.

          2. Robert says:

            +1
            Smart.

      3. zzzzzzzzzz says:

        “you tell your local monopoly power grid to shove it; they can’t jack up your bills”

        Do you imagine subsidies at the expense of other ratepayers is your constitutional right? As soon as grid will get too many such smarties, it will jack up bills. There are no free batteries in the grid. You will get demand charges in few years just like any industrial customer and so goes away all the “savings”.

    5. no comment says:

      solar shingles have been around for some time, but the solar shingles that i have seen have the property that they look like solar cells, but they are flush to the roof deck and therefore don’t protrude. the solarcity solar panels appear to have the characteristic that they look more like regular shingles. however, i don’t think anyone is going to be fooled if you attempt to mix asphalt shingles with solar shingles on the same roof. so, ultimately you’re going to be stuck with doing your whole roof with solar shingles.

      in typical tesla fashion, tesla says that you can “order today” but they don’t have pricing established yet. if this doesn’t underscore bob lutz’ “cult” critique, what does? what other company does business in this manner?

      to add to your comments, another problem with solar shingles versus solar panels, is that for a solar cell, efficiency declines with increasing temperature. with solar panels, you can have a gap between the back of the panel and the roof which creates an ventilation channel to help keep reduce the temperature of the cell. when you put shingles directly on the roof, you don’t have that air channel. consequently, on hot days, you are going to see a decrease in efficiency.

      as to keeping the house cool, the way that you would accomplish that is with attic/rafter insulation combined with a vented roof. as to maintenance, i would expect that there would be a monitoring system that would enable you to localize faulty tiles.

      oddly enough, though, i rather like the general idea that musk is pitching. but like so much stuff that tesla does, it is oriented toward a very high end customer base. that said, i think that there a good prospects for this product, at least in california. starting in 2020, new residential construction in california has to meet net zero requirements. for high end home construction, this looks like a better option than to go with solar panels.

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        “no comment” whined:

        “what other company does business in this manner?”

        Wow, do you absolutely never shop on the Internet? If I had a nickel for every website I’ve visited that advertises products without listing a price… I don’t like it, but it’s ridiculous to claim that this is somehow unique to Tesla.

        Once again we see serial Tesla bashers holding up perfectly normal business practices, and pretending that somehow they are strange or underhanded because Tesla is doing them. 🙄

        1. no comment says:

          p2,

          if i had a dollar for every comment you make on subject matter on which you are uninformed, i would be rolling triple-deuce b#@z-o s-class by now…

          yes, there are a number of products that are listed for sale without a price. generally, these product have a notation indicating that you either need to send an inquiry to get the price or you find out the price when you put the product in your basket. in any event, if you proceed to place an order THE PRICE IS DISCLOSED TO YOU BEFORE THE ORDER IS PLACED.

          getting back to the article. what i read the article to state is that tesla will allow you to place an order today, and you find out the price of the goods later. you can’t form a valid contract for sale on this basis. so what tesla is apparently calling an “order” is little more than a statement of interest. maybe tesla takes a deposit with each “order”. in that event, this is like a “reservation” as was done with the tesla model 3.

          however you look at it, based on what is in this article, this “order” arrangement seems like something that would appeal to members of the tesla “cult”.

          1. George says:

            Just an FYI – you can’t actually “order today” the solar roof. That part I believe was meant for the Powerwall 2.0, which you can order right now on the website, with a price listed.

            The solar roof only has a page to sign up for email updates. So no, they’re not taking people’s money without providing a price first.

            1. no comment says:

              here is what the articles stated:


              “Tesla says that you can start ordering your own solar roof today, but that installations are next expected until Summer of 2017”

              it could be that the article is incorrect on this point, but as written it seems pretty clear to me.

              1. Jay Cole says:

                Tesla is actually stating that you can order the solar roof tiles now, but that pricing apparently varies a lot depending on the install (opv). I think it is just a case where the online functionality is not active and/or this is something you will actually have to configure/order ‘in the flesh’ (at least for a time)…but that last bit is just a WAG on my part.

    6. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      @DJ:

      Thanks for all the pertinent info in your post. You raise some very important issues. I guess the bottom line here is that no type of solar panel/tile installation will be best for everyone. Anyone looking at home solar should consider a lot of options.

      It shouldn’t be a surprise that Tesla’s system seems aimed at a more upscale market. That fits with Tesla’s overall public image.

      But, DJ, you did omit the fact that you can buy tiles which are not solar panels, to achieve a uniform look across the roof; and in fact, you implied that you can’t, with your comment: “…not everyone needs their entire roof to be a ‘solar roof’ so what you put solar shingles on part but regular roof on the other?”

      Now, you do have a point that the lookalike glass tiles are probably still going to be more expensive than regular roof tiles, but instead of getting defensive about your error, you could have acknowledged it and moved on.

      And dude, if you really didn’t want to provoke an argument, then starting your comment by referring to “the Tesla cult” wasn’t the best way of going about that.

      I give you an “A” for content for your post, but a “D” for tone.

      1. DJ says:

        Well thanks 🙂

        Also, let’s be clear there is no way anything that goes against Tesla wasn’t going to incite a harsh response. I will take an A and a D as it is surely better than the F and F that many of them brought to the conversation 🙂

        1. DJ says:

          And oh, again I didn’t omit that fact. Elon refers to it all as the solar roof, so with a PV in it or not it is still their solar roof. I think it was purely just a misunderstanding of what I meant and yes I suppose I could have been clearer 🙂

          1. no comment says:

            first of all, p2 is not actually going to buy any of this stuff. so it doesn’t matter to him whether he is right or wrong.

            on the other hand, there was a tesla statement:

            “Customers can choose which sections of their roof will contain the hidden solar technology while still having the entire roof look the same”

            which does indicate that tesla does believe that you can mix solar shingles with conventional shingles.

            the thing is, if you do such a thing, nobody is going to be fooled to think that the solar shingles blend seamlessly with conventional shingles. first of all, glass has a decidedly different index of light refraction than asphalt or cedar shakes. even if you used a metal roof, the index of light refraction wouldn’t be the same.

        2. sven says:

          DJ, don’t ever mention the Tesla Cult; it’s like Fight Club and La Cosa Nostra (the Italian Mafia).

          As Tyler Durden said: “The first rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about fight club. The second rule of Fight Club is you DO NOT talk about Fight Club.”

          As the late John Gotti, don (boss) of the Gambino crime family in NYC used to say: Mafia? There is not Mafia in America. It’s a story made up by the media. I’m a plumbing supply salesman (who liked strut around in $2,000 Brioni suits and hang out at the Bergen Hunt and Fish Club).

  4. Empire State says:

    I believe he called it “tuscan,” and not “Tucson.”

    1. Jay Cole says:

      Yes indeed, it is Tuscan Glass Tiles. Sorry, was knocking out the follow-up story live during the live-stream. (I did get it right 2 out of 3 times though…points for effort? hehe)

      1. AlphaEdge says:

        Of course points for effort! Thanks for all the coverage/articles on this.

        1. Jay Cole says:

          /sweet, every loves extra points

          1. ffbj says:

            Install the Tuscan Glass Tiles, Install the Tuscan Glass Tiles, Install, Install… etc…
            To the tune of follow the Yellow Brick Road.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THbY7EL8k5w

  5. Jake Brake says:

    Now its even easier to throw rocks a teslas glass house!

  6. David Murray says:

    How do they hold up to Texas hail storms?

    1. Nix says:

      I would guess that they would actually do better than traditional panels, because they will have the support of the roof directly behind them, instead of having just the racks holding them up. But that is a valid question.

      Meanwhile, is it bad that I’m hoping a hail storm will total my roof, so I have an excuse to put a new roof on?

      1. HeisenberghtNUTS says:

        My guess is the same. The tiles are less likely to break. They also have a lower area. In case one gets destroyed it should be less loss than having a complete 200W module destroyed.

        “Meanwhile, is it bad that I’m hoping a hail storm will total my roof, so I have an excuse to put a new roof on?”

        Deep inside you know the answer 😉 Maybe you can have your now ousted panels removed and donate them to your neighbour?

    2. a-kindred-soul says:

      Didn’t you see the video? It was demonstrated next to traditional shingles.

      1. zzzzzzzzzz says:

        Like all hail resistance demonstrations, it uses rounded weight. Tempered glass is good for this type of impact, but any sharper edges would shatter it. Hail is not necessary round. Although you would need really big hail to shatter tempered glass, especially if it is at angle.

        1. sven says:

          There have been many reports of temper glass sunroofs and shower doors shattering spontaneously for no apparent reason. A glass expert said “The reason tempered glass spontaneously shatters is the glass might have an original flaw in the edge or a scratch in the surface the other reason is occasionally there is an impurity in the glass for when it was first melted from sand, and it’s called an inclusion. [Reporter: That inclusion, a tiny ball of metal made of nickel and sulfur, growing over time.] When it grows, sometimes it can actually pop the glass.”

          http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/spontaneously-shattering-glass-injuries-27466802

          “With [tempered glass] sunroofs a flaw can occur during manufacturing, or from something like road debris.”

          “’People describe it as like a gunshot,’ says Michael Layton of Car Effex of Mantua Township. He’s been repairing sunroofs for over a decade and sees the problem often. He says, ‘We probably do about 10 a month. Normally there’s a rock chip or something that actually caused it, like a little chip and once it gets hot enough it just explodes.’”

          http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2015/05/18/3-on-your-side-shattering-sunroofs-surprising-drivers/

    3. no comment says:

      it’s tempered glass, which has 3 times the tensile strength of float glass. if a hail stone hits with enough force to chip the glass surface of the solar shingle, it will most likely shatter. if you have seen roof windows/skylights around texASS, then you can assess how well those units hold up and get a sense for how well the solar shingles would hold up there.

    4. AlphaEdge says:

      Watch near the end of the video. Drops apple size steel ball on different tiles, and only the Tesla tile did not crack. The tiles are glass/quartz.

      1. no comment says:

        that is a pretty meaningless test. the kinds of objects that are more likely to shatter tempered glass are irregularly shaped ones, especially ones that have sharp or pointed edges.

    5. speculawyer says:

      Watch the video. They drop a steel ball on them and it doesn’t break but traditional shingles did break.

  7. Tyl says:

    This entire new reality of a solar roof/panels is working for me!

    I’d like to have much more solar storage capacity for a single family home with Tesla EV’s.

    I’m thinking that a two Tesla family will need about 200kWh. If mom, dad and the family all arrive home around sundown with the cars near empty, higher demands on regular appliances etc., just charging the cars overnight would take say 160 kWh. I’d like an affordable Power Pack for home storage use along with these new beautiful solar roofs. I sure hope that is in the planning (strike through) …reality stage as well!

    1. Me says:

      What new reality? Solar shingles and solar “terracotta” plates have already existed for a while.

      In fact, it’s 100% guaranteed Tesla is just reselling them.

      1. Anon says:

        No, whoever “Me” is…

        The Tesla Tiles are their own in-house design, and look significantly better than previous attempts at “Clay Tile” style solar shingle systems.

        Yes, other companies versions already exist, but they fall quite short, aesthetically. For example: These are dark blue, and look awful when mixed with non-solar tiles on the same roof:

        The Tesla ‘Clay Tiles’ at least try to better match the traditional shape and color of roofs that are common in places like California. And the “Duds” give the installation a significantly more pleasing look to the home.

        1. DJ says:

          LOL, they already have ones that Tesla supposedly invented just now installed around here for a few years. They aren’t that hideous blue you linked to…

        2. no comment says:

          there WILL be a need to replace solar shingles. you can’t assume that nothing will go wrong just because elon musk might infer as much. to that extent, i hope that tesla designed these solar shingles such that replacement of a single solar shingle is not difficult. looking at the photo, though, it looks to me as though replacement of a solar shingle might require quite a bit of work. with asphalt shingles, they are pliable so that you can bend and re-tack shingle that are not directly affected. but with solar shingles, there is a possibility that if you bend them too much, the glass will shatter. then you have additional solar shingles that you would have to replace.

          i’m sure that i am missing something because this photo is not definitive proof one way or the other. but it would be a major blunder if this system were not designed with the realization that there will be a need to replace individual tiles.

  8. James says:

    I currently have 66 Sunpower panels on my roof, but I think they are an eyesore. Fortunately, my house sits high off the street and they aren’t particularly visible, but I’d gladly trade off some efficiency for better aesthetics. Fascinating that they even have a barrel tile panel.

    Can’t wait to see these in action, and I love the vertical integration of solar, car, and storage. Here in AZ where SRP just started demand charges for residential solar, this combo would be fantastic.

    With 4 powerwall and a backup gas generator, I could easily go off-grid.

  9. Alan says:

    Depending on the cost, even North facing or partially North facing solar roof tiles will be producing electricity so could boost overall generation, they are not dependant on sunshine to produce energy but will obviously provide much less in winter months.

    It all comes down to cost and aesthetics.

    Very interested in the Powerwall now as was limited to 4 which only totalled 26kwh but can now have 3 totalling 40kwh which is much closer to my winter usage !

    1. Heisenberght says:

      Be careful with that one. You are right, given you have enough money it sure makes sense to also put them on north facing roofs (I know from personal experience (not that money thing…) I have some solar panels nearly facing north and hopefully won’t be too lazy to install some facing south… )

      Yes they produce, but you should always make sure that you put only those panels in serial configuration which are shaded at the same time of the day.

      (this might be a advantage of the small tiles and the high number of connections…)

      Btw for the grid it would even be better if more people installed west or east facing panels. Once panels will drop further in price (they did fall a lot over the last decade and will even fall further) it will be common to see solar panels in facing into really stupid directions. Yet we have to see if teslas shingles will help with that. I hope so, but I still insist that usual panels are looking really good!

  10. AlphaEdge says:

    So original Powerwall was $5000 (lease price (9 years) which included installation) for 10 kWh and inverter, and now Powerwall 2.0 is 14 kWh with inverter for $5500. Nice increase for a modest price increase.

    1. AlphaEdge says:

      Oops, 10 kWh version was discontinued in March 2016, and only 7 kWh (6.4) kWh (2 kW discharge) model was being sold.

      The Powerwall 2 discharge of 7 kW is a huge increase.

      From Tesla’s website on Powerwall 2 pricing:
      One 14 kWh Powerwall battery $5,500
      Installation and supporting hardware starts at $1,000
      Total estimate $6,500
      Requires $500 deposit for each Powerwall

      1. J says:

        i’d rather have half price and less capacity powerwall version available for my 5kwp solar installation…

        1. Heisenberght says:

          Yepp! I really wonder why Tesla doesn’t come up with different sizes? Production limited most likely… Hopefully they will sell 1000$ 5kwh solutions in three years, then nothing could stop me from buying! Go Tesla! Push the market!

        2. Heisenberght says:

          Hmm. Just re read your comment. 5kWp you own? Why not just take the 14kWh? Or maybe two of them…

  11. Skryll says:

    So nothing about special inverters with car charging ?

    1. Anon says:

      No, apparently not. 🙁

      The demo / event was lacking on specs and duration. Not sure if that was planned, or some other business ‘fire’ dampened things? *shrugs*

      At least there was a Model 3 in one of the garages. 😉

  12. poor dad says:

    ok rich guys come forward …..

    another beautiful 2 toys from tesla for rich people 😅

    insane amount of money 6500 $ for powerwall

    elon … man are you nuts??? 😂

    1. Anon says:

      If you don’t have money, don’t buy anything. Problem solved.

      Also, don’t whine about it in public. Hate that. Excuses give people a way to let them limit themselves. Anyways…

      This goes without saying, but the first gen of most things is always expensive, and becomes less so, over time due to many market and manufacturing factors. Affordability for whiners comes eventually, if there is market support for refining the technology.

      Elon’s putting out an example for others to follow. He’s also trying to make a business model out of it, using capitalism as a ‘Nudge’ mechanism; so going green isn’t such a bitter pill for humanity to swallow.

      We wouldn’t want cleaning up and preserving as much of the planet’s biodiversity from a global climate crisis– inconvenient, now would we? 😉

  13. xado says:

    the idea is not new,here in austria i have seen some of these,but the system looks good.

    link

  14. Chris says:

    What are the options for flat roofs? They didn’t mention it in the presentation.

    1. Alan says:

      Flat roofs are notorious leaker’s, I would imagine the last thing you would want to do is put any fixings into one, sooner or later you would have yourself a colander !

      Best thing to do if possible is turn it into a pitched roof, optimum for Solar PV is between 30-40 degrees pitch.

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        Alan said:

        “…sooner or later you would have yourself a colander !”

        That scenario might possibly be true for older solar shingles, where the installer had to drill a hole in the roof for every individual shingle, to make the electrical connection. But newer solar shingles don’t require that, so I think your criticism is misplaced.

        1. Alan says:

          I wasn’t criticising, just stating facts, flat roofs regularly leak unless you dispute that ?

          Who said anything about drilling holes in the roof for every single shingle ?

          How many fixings exactly are there in the in the average size roof for these new solar tiles as you seem to have all the answers before everyone else, including the manufacturers themselves !

          1. Bryan Whitton says:

            Actually a flat roof when properly installed works quote well. Key word here is properly installed. They aren’t truly flat, just 2 degrees or so of slope.
            I have installed solar on many a flat roof. It is very important that you inspect and install on a good roof or you will be having a lot of repairs in the future.

        2. Alan says:

          And while we are at it,

          All you ever seem to do on this site is copy and paste other contributors comments and criticise,

          How about trying to come up with some original comments yourself for a change, since you fancy yourself as such a “critical thinker” how about showing us some !

      2. sven says:

        @Alan

        There are three options for installing solar on a flat roof: attached (penetrating), ballasted, and hybrid. The attached racking systems make holes in you roof and require special flashing around the holes to prevent leaks, but allow the panels to be installed at a greater tilted angle than ballasted racking systems. Ballasted systems do not penetrate the roof and as you might have guessed use a weight (concrete block) to hold down the racking in high winds, but their tilted angle is less than attached systems. Hybrid systems is a combination of the two with less attachment points (penetrating holes) than a full attached system.

        Better explanation at this link:
        http://solarprofessional.com/articles/products-equipment/racking/flat-roof-mounting-systems

        Example of the attachment and flashing used in an attached racking system:
        http://quickmountpv.com/products/low-slope-mount.html?cur=3

        What I would like for my flat roof is the ability for me to self-adjust the tilt angle of the panels as the seasons change or adjust them every month, since it is very easy and safe to get on my roof with its parapet walls and walk around.

    2. no comment says:

      if you’ve got a flat roof you are not going to want to use solar shingles because you are going to lose too much efficiency. you will need to pitch the solar panels to an angle that would allow you to get better efficiency.

      1. Bryan Whitton says:

        Shingles typically don;t work on flat roofs as they need pitch to seal properly. Usually they need 8 degrees of pitch to work. There are low pitch roof shingles but they don’t work of flat roofs either.

  15. Someone out there says:

    It looks OK to me, however the most important details were left out: first and foremost the price but I would also like to know how they are connected to each other and to the electric system.

    As many have already pointed out, solar shingles isn’t new but they are expensive so Tesla’s innovation here mostly comes down to whether they can make a system that is financially sensible but they left that very key piece of information out! I have a hunch that they are quite expensive.

    It’s nice to see that they have improved the Powerwall as well. It’s still too expensive but at least the inverter is included in the price this time.

    1. Alan says:

      I was wondering the same about how they are connected to each other, maybe they plug into what is essentially a huge circuit board ?

      Solar tiles (shingles as you guys call them) are not new but until now are not efficient enough, with Panasonic on board, that may have changed, if they can get somewhere nearer the 20% module efficiency mark per 1.6 sq mtr of roof space it might well be a winner if the price is right.

      I would guess that 2 or 3 years time would be about right to get into storage as the cell price should be near bottom by then.

      1. Someone out there says:

        They don’t really need to be that efficient as long as they are cheap. You are going to cover the entire roof anyway, you might as well use solar shingles all over as long as they are not too expensive.

        1. Alan says:

          That’s very true about the cost,

          Personally, I use about 40kWh a day during winter and about 10 kWh a day in summer, only having around 42 sq mtrs of roof on the south side 24 X Sunpower X 21’s would give me an 8kw system, great in summer, not so good in winter as they will not produce anywhere near enough to run my house let alone top up the car much.

          Not sure exactly what the north facing would produce in winter as an overall % but I doubt it’s huge.

  16. Another Euro point of view says:

    The pictures are nice.

    1. Anon says:

      I’m especially impressed by the “French Slate” tiles, and how every shingle is unique in texture and color so it looks more traditional and organic.

      They would look fantastic on my house. ‘Dud’s could be put on the detached garage, so they match. 🙂

  17. Peter says:

    After reading some of the comments on here I had to put in my 2 cents. There have been a lot of insightful comments about the possible limitations of the roofs. Unfortunately we do not have enough info on most of them either way. What I wanted to comment on was the efficiency of the solar tiles. It is not important. Why are we talking about the efficiency of the solar tiles. Three years ago we installed a 5 kw solar system. We had an old iron roof, so we had to re-roof before the panels went up. If we had the opportunity to do the whole roof with these Tesla tiles for less cost than our roof + tiles but with at least the same power generation, then why would I care if panels I have up now are more efficient?

    1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      I’m happy for you, that you didn’t have to worry about efficiency in your installation, and that apparently you have plenty of power for your home’s needs.

      Not everyone is going to be as lucky as you. Some will have a roof that faces the wrong direction(s); some will have roofs shaded by nearby buildings or trees; some will live where it is cloudy or raining much of the time; some will need more power because they use their home solar power to charge their BEV(s).

      I continue to find it odd that so many people seem to assume that if something works for them, it will work for everybody. And you know what they say happens when you assume…

      1. Anon says:

        But assuming about assuming, is even worse…

      2. sven says:

        Pu-pu said:
        “I continue to find it odd that so many people seem to assume that if something works for them, it will work for everybody. And you know what they say happens when you assume…”

        Oh, you mean like how BEV-owning suburbanites with garages and access to a plug for overnight charging think that a BEV will work for city dwellers who park on the street and have no access to a plug for overnight charging, and for whom a hydrogen FCV might be the best if not only choice for zero emissions driving? 😉

    2. no comment says:

      the reason why you care about efficiency is because, even if you are bought in on the idea of solar panels, there are multiple choices. so, efficiency information allows you to decide how to get the most bang for the buck. my suspicion is that the tesla solar shingle system is going to be more suitable for people who take a “cost no object” approach to solar power.

  18. Warren says:

    I am pretty discouraged about people’s approach to our energy problems. The simplest, and ultimately only solution is to use less energy. High efficiency is necessary, but not sufficient. I just looked over our electric bills for the last ten years, and we have never had a $240 monthly bill. Admittedly, the kids are gone, and it is just us. But recently we went to tour a house in an “over fifty” retirement development. The idea is to downsize and simplify your life in your old age. They tout these as energy efficient homes, proudly showing a chart indicating that their product is about 30% more efficient than the typical Virginia home. My jaw dropped to see they “efficient” house used three times more electricity than our 40 year old house. Not surprising really, as it was twice the area, and three times the volume.

    1. Warren says:

      I should have said 30% more efficient than a typical NEW Virginia home.

      1. DJ says:

        Just to ask what do you do when you can’t use any less power? My bills were around $200 and we used about 9k kW a year. We pay some of the highest rates in the country which is why our bills are so bad. Virtually every light is a LED. We don’t turn on outside lights, we put in window ACs in the summer months, we use space heaters for room heat at night in the winter, we run our pool only for 3 hours a day. There literally isn’t anything more really to save on.

        A lot of people out here do this but with a house, a family, and now an EV you are gonna use power. I personally think it’s great what roof top solar has been able to do out here. We may not produce what we need for every month or every day but over the entire year we will probably produce more than we use. I dont feel bad about using more than an apartment does because at the same time their power all comes from the grid meanwhile mine isn’t 🙂

        1. Alan says:

          We use 9,500 kwh’s per annum which costs approx £950 (10p per kWh) which roughly equates to 13c per kWh and we also can’t get our bills down any lower as we have a tariff which is the market lowest in the UK.

          It’s always warm in the winter, we have triple glazing, cavity wall insulation, loft insulation on only 1 external wall (due to Conservatory, integral garage etc) all LED bulbs etc, the only thing left to do is Solar & battery storage to help with consumption and the topping up of the car.

          There is a limit as you say as to what you can do cut down the electricity bills outside of huddling round a candle for light & heat during winter !

    2. Ocean Railroader says:

      We had the AC unit replaced at our house last year and the thing is far more energy saving at heating and cooling the house. Such as the old one would run for hours on end. The new one only runs a few minutes.

      The interesting thing about the heating system’s progress was we would run a space heater down stairs all the time to make up for it being cold. The new system doesn’t need a space heater.

  19. TM says:

    I’d be interested to know if big slabs of these things come pre-assembled or if they lay each tile down like a traditional roof. Also, I’m very interested in how the electrical connections are made, and like others have said, how easy/hard is it to identify and replace a bad tile. Also efficiency when tiles are “dirty” or dusty. This would enable solar panels to go where HOAs have discouraged solar, eventhough HOAs are not supposed to be able to deny panels going up. I’m intrigued, but will have to wait to see the price tag.

    1. Leptoquark says:

      That was my question. What are the connectors like for these tiles, and how will they hold up over 20-30 years? I didn’t see any electrodes or connectors in any of the tiles Elon showed. They’re not just a minor detail either, the utility of the roof will depend entirely on how good the connectors are.

      Also, I wonder if strings of tiles are connected to microinverters (good), or if the entire roof is in series (bad). With the entire roof being solar, you don’t want a few leaves here and there in the fall, or some unmelted snow on the edges in winter to be affecting production.

      As far as aesthetics, the only roofs I’ve seen that look good with conventional panels are the ones where the panels cover a solid rectangular block on a rectangular roof with no uncovered parts for roof vents, or other penetrations. These new solar shingles do look nice.

    2. Heisenberght says:

      I was asking myself a lot how the tiles connect, now I am tired. (that is the moment when the brain starts to work!)

      It’s Tesla! Tesla doesn’t need physical connectors! It’s Tesla! Dammit it’s so obvious! In fact it is so obvious that they even didn’t bother to talk about it! It’s holy Tesla the most innovative company in the world led by Elon (sometimes referred to as the saviour! )!

      Physical connectors are outdated!

      The tiles themselves are in fact not rectangular (they seem to be in our simplified 4 dimensional view)

      In the true reality those shingles are a 13-dimensional hyper-sphere which can transform into anything that the chosen wishes!
      You want it to be “Textured Glass Tile” SO BE IT!
      “Slate Glass Tile” SO BE IT! “Tuscan Glass Tile” SBI!
      … sbi… You get it!

      Energy transfer from “shingle” to “shingle” is carried out via direct supersymmetric superstring coupling (we call that induction). Maybe a picture helps to explain what I mean:

      The single shingle sings supersymmetric string songs the others sing along!

      Ok people it’s getting late, so please don’t swing the TESLA coil on me 😉

  20. Warren says:

    Drain the pool for starters. Americans use way too many square feet per person. I remember back when the Japanese were eating our lunch, and folks were laughing about them living in “rabbit dens.” Living on a tiny island, they have were forced to think about needs vs wants long before we were.

    1. no comment says:

      …and people in the US drive cars that are way bigger than they actually need. this all comes down to *incentives*. if you had higher energy use taxes and more rigorous energy building codes, it would direct people’s behavior. the problem is that such energy-efficiency directives would be political suicide in the US because some other (typically republican) politician would be telling people that the government is trying to tax you.

      1. Warren says:

        I’d like to think that leaving our kids a liveable world would be incentive enough, but I know that isn’t the case. Family values has different meaning to different people.

        1. no comment says:

          this is one area in which i have found the baby boom generation; with its “me, me, my, my” mentality; to be a big disappointment. the whole climate change denial mentality, the refusal to invest in infrastructure for the future, the refusal to invest in public education; all of these reflect a population that cares only about today and has no regard for future consequences. it’s as though the baby boom generation is figuring that they won’t be around in the year 2100 so let the people living then figure out how to solve the problems of that time.

          i remember once when i was in a store at the light bulbs section. a man and his son were also in the area when the son asked about buying led bulbs, to which the father responded that they were too expensive. clearly a guy who was thinking a lot about the world that his son would be inheriting.

          the thing is, though, when people *do* seem to think about the future, they seem to limit it to their own children. it’s as though they don’t realize that their children are going to have to live in a society and in a broader world; and if that world goes to hell in a hand basket, their own children are not going to be insulated.

    2. Ocean Railroader says:

      I guess your not going to be to happy about my idea of building a 7500 or 12000 square foot steel building and turning it into a house.

      I’ve been living in a tiny house all my life and I’m tired of in. I want some square footage.

      My solution for the giant house idea is to cover it into solar panels.

      1. DJ says:

        Who is gonna clean all that space!!!

  21. These are nice. Let’s see where they are by next year but they are certainly in my list to consider.

    I’ve been debating on Solar Panels for years. A large part is that they are very ugly. Sure, cost matters, but my experience is that, after a while, I forget the cost, but I see my roof every day.

    So, these are now in my list.

    1. no comment says:

      i think that the sunpower x-21 panels in signature black look pretty slick. you do pay more money for them, though.

  22. sven says:

    Color me impressed with Powerwall 2.0 and the aesthetics of the solar roof tiles. I was never a fan of the bulbous shape of Powerwall 1.0, which required wall mounting. The slim and flat Powerwall 2.0 can be floor mounted, and presumably stacked, which to me is much easier that finding empty wall space to hang multiple Powerwalls. I’ve got a lot of shelves and gear/equipment/stuff hanging from the inside walls of my garage, so hanging multiple Powerwalls would require finding a place to put all the stuff that is now hanging on the walls.

    I’ve got a flat roof, so the solar tiles won’t work for me. But I have an 5-foot high old stone and masonry wall on my property line that’s in desperate need of a resurfacing. I was going to put brickface or stucco on the wall, but now I’m contemplating putting up Tesla’s solar “slate” tiles if they can be installed vertically or practically vertical. Heck, if Tesla should make a solar brickface in the future, I consider putting it up on the entire south wall of my house.

    1. no comment says:

      i’m impressed also. this system is undoubtedly going to be VERY expensive, but the cost can be offset by energy tax credits and state rebates. but even considering tax credits and rebates, i expect that it will still be expensive compared to alternative solutions.

      my expectation is that the tesla solution is more targeted for high end residences.

  23. Ocean Railroader says:

    This is going to blow the mind of those moronic neighborhood groups who ban solar planelsin a neighborhood due to them being ugly. It would be fun to put in a solar system and then tell the anti solar losers you are simply replacing your roof.

    Not to mention this would be cool to add solar panels to historical buildings.

    1. DJ says:

      Not sure about your state but mine can’t ban them. They may suggest you put them a certain way no banning.

    2. sven says:

      You mean those dreaded homeowners associations (HOA).

  24. Get Real says:

    Ignoring all the cynics/critics and outright haters/shorters like zzzzz, I have to say that if this system can be cost competitive with:

    A new construction roof plus electricity.

    or, a re-roof plus the cost of electricity.

    Then it becomes a no-brainer and should sell very well since it combines the cost AND utility of both the needed roof and your constantly recurring electricity costs.

    It should also do very well with people who value aesthetics and people in upper income brackets with nice homes that want solar.

    In any case, the REAL STORY here is the Powerwall 2.0.

    As Tesla’s foresight in building the Giga and driving down battery costs gives it a competitive advantage going forward because the energy storage market is going to be HUGE and probably a better seller then even their cars.

    And no, utility solar will not be cheaper or prevent people from becoming self generators and have at least some storage of their own energy because the real costs in your utility bill is not the generation but rather the transmission and distribution.

    Combine this with the fact that large and growing numbers of people want and value the independence of self generating and soon storing their own energy.

    At some point the the transition to renewables, storage and distributed generation will dominate in the not distant future despite all the money that the Koch Heads and their minions throw at a scummy political party.

    So just like EVs, Tesla is really shaping this future and will benefit immensely to the chagrin of the haters.

  25. sven says:

    I was guessing/hoping that Tesla was going to do something a little more innovative with their solar roof, like a hybrid system that would pre-heat hot water for radiators, baths and showers while also generating electricity cooling the tiles so that they operate at their maximum efficiency.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/09/150925085759.htm

    1. Knut Erik Ballestad says:

      This kind of hybrid collectors have been commercially available for year from e.g. solimpeks.

      http://www.solimpeks.com/pv-t-hybrid-solar-collectors/

  26. sven says:

    One question I have is how do these solar tile roofs deal with building codes that require part of a roof with solar panels to be exposed so that fire fighters can cut a hole in the roof to vent the gases in the building interior during a house fire?

    1. no comment says:

      that doesn’t seem like an issue to me. clearly, they would have to destroy tiles to cut a hole in the roof, but that would be true in any event. i don’t imagine that cutting through these tiles would be more difficult than cutting through a metal roof.

      1. sven says:

        They could be cutting through live electrical wires with high current running through them, especially during a house fire at noon during a sunny summer day. After cutting a hole in the roof surface, firemen (in NYC at least) insert a 5 to 6 foot long steel Pike Pole to knock away the the interior ceiling, insulation, etc. to clear the hole for venting. Although they’re wearing gloves, firemen would probably want to avoid their saws and pike poles from contacting live electric wires.

        1. no comment says:

          there would have to be some power shutoff capability. you would need such a capability in the event that you have to replace a failed solar shingle. i guess your issues is that the shutoff capability would have to be in a location where it could be accessed without having to enter a burning structure to access a control panel.

          i would think that tesla has researched the building code implications of this and would have thought through a solution. the california building code is accessible on the world wide web, so i am sure that tesla consulted it.

  27. tftf says:

    Elon Musk In Greek mythology? Daedalus.

    People with classic education, you are welcome.

    1. Heisenberght says:

      Are you sure “stargate” was a Greek production?

    2. Heisenberght says:

      Athene save me!!!

    3. Heisenberght says:

      Education 0
      Wikipedia 1

    4. Get Real says:

      LMFAO, tftf in this context = a Trump like Dinosaur desperately seeking to protect his leeching short positions on Tesla.

      Another lame attempt to slime Tesla again by Tesla-shorter tftf from Seeking Liars.

      Yes tftf, Elon Musk and his companies are trying to save us and our planet from people like you.

      Thank god he has the vision, talent and drive to do what is right and counter people like you and your efforts to put short sighted greed ahead of the entire planet and future.

      1. Heosrnbdfght says:

        You are too real!

        1. sven says:

          Are you any relation to Heisenberght? 😉

      2. AlphaEdge says:

        Pushmi-Pullyu???

  28. Mikael says:

    3 times the life time of a normal roof? A normal roof lasts 50-60 year.

    Elon can bet his ass on that my ghost will sue his ghost if it will not last the 150+ years expected. 😉

    1. no comment says:

      a normal roof lasts more like 20 years.

  29. speculawyer says:

    Wait. I know how they can do this. They will build pre-fabricated sections of pre-assembled solar shingles. This will combine many solar cells such that a traditional power optimizers or microinverters may be used.

    Then you lay down these preassembled sections in the areas that get the best sun. Then around the preassembled sections of solar shingles, you install “blanks” for the rest of the roof.

    1. no comment says:

      i think that you are on to something with the pre-assembly idea. it is very likely that these solar shingles will be customized to the roof geometry of the house in which they will be installed. unlike conventional shingles, the tesla solar shingles can’t be cut to fit on site. so the shingles have to come from the factory pre-fitted to the roof deck on which they will be installed.

      as to your other idea of “blanks” that makes sense also. but “blanks” means tempered glass with a color backer. a “blank” shingle will be less expensive than a solar shingle but more expensive than a conventional shingle.

  30. speculawyer says:

    The upstate New York siting the factory now makes sense. They are close to Corning glassworks up there.

    1. sven says:

      I think you’re onto something. In hindsight, upstate NY makes perfect sense.

    2. no comment says:

      it is more important to be close to a glass fabricator than it is to be close to a glass factory. some smaller companies do both glass manufacture and fabrication. maybe corning is one of them.

  31. Bill Howland says:

    So there was no mention of either price per square foot? Or Power output per sqft?

    They look like a very nice product…. My question is, can you walk on them in both hot and cold weather, in other words, are they brittle?

    The manufacturing cost would be handy to know, to see if the multiple layers greatly increases the cost.

    People who can afford anything will probably get the things since they are mostly beautiful.

    But it would be nice to make a comparison with cheaper and cheaper plain old solar panels.

    Where I am, the powerwall thing would only be good off grid in the country – I don’t believe we have any laws insisting people must have electrical utility service as I believe some parts of Florida do.

    By Statute in NY State, you cannot have Net Metering with either wind or solar if you also have any batteries connected to the system (except for emergency systems).

    1. no comment says:

      as to price, the comparison is to slate roof tiles. if there are houses in your neighborhood with slate roof tiles, then you live in a very high end neighborhood. slate roof tiles can easily cost 5 times as much as asphalt tiles.

      in other words, it’s a really slick, and well thought out, product; but for now, it’s for high end “cost no object” projects. with california implementing net zero requirements in the building codes in the next few years, i think that there is a definite market for this product.

      as to strength – it’s tempered glass. it is quite strong and has high thermal stress resistance. but it is also fragile in some ways. a sharp object can puncture the surface of the glass, which would cause the entire tile to shatter. the good thing about tempered glass is that it tends to not break up into sharp shards.

      as to the utility of battery systems, i’ve never really understood the use of these systems in the US, the power grid is quite stable. you certainly don’t have to have battery systems to meet net zero requirements. even if you use a battery system, it seems to me that a lead acid system, which costs less than lithium ion, would be sufficient – it’s not like weight of the battery is a significant issue in this setting.

      from your explanation, the new york state laws with regard to net metering make no sense to me. are you sure you’re understanding this law correctly? why would the state of new york have passed such a law? what is the hazard that they are trying to prevent?

      1. Bill Howland says:

        Legislation allowing netmetering was not passed in isolation: Utilities of course are not that found of the fact they are forced to buy back electricity at the same outrageous rates they sell it to us at.

        (In my area, the rates are reasonable – and NY State – to be fair doesn’t have any silly laws like California and Massachusetts do, namely, limiting the amount of electricity a homeowner can use – I think fines start in Mass around 600 kwh per month).

        THe only place I’m taken advantage of in NY State is, any EXCESS power I’ve made for the calendar year is only paid at wholesale rates, this year it was 2 1/2 cents/kwh. Which is fine except they charge you 11 to 12 cents per kwh, and since I don’t like their numbers I and other solar or wind ‘generators’ have an incentive to not have larger systems than we absolutely need for ourselves.

        Residential Solar, as a subcategory, is limited to 1% of customer usage.

        (The utilities only went for this program as long as it doesn’t make a significan dent in their sales).

        The prohibition against batteries is to prevent arbitraging.

        The netmeter scheme also defacto prevents time-of-day metering, since any ‘piggy-banking’ of the juice now is categorized by the time period segment only. Since I’m 24/7/365 the same rate, I can also do my piggy-banking 24/7/365.

        Fortunately for residences, the utility has no requirement I take TOD service.

        I’d much rather live right where I am, as I would hate to live in other parts of the country where netmetering is not absolutely free, as it is here – or in canada, where tod is now mandatory. They used to have much cheaper electricity, but now it is much more expensive even taking into account the exchange rate..

        NYC, or anywhere in california or massachusetts, the carolinas , or even most parts of florida i’d have much better solar performance (my house has the same solar performance as Alaska or Germany), but at least everything else about it is cheap.

      2. Bill Howland says:

        No Comment:

        Just because you don’t understand something, or don’t understand why something was done, does not affect my understanding of the issue.

        Hardly making ‘No Sense’, it is in fact a Bonanza to we solar (and wind) ‘generators’.

        Other areas simply have no net metering, or else are charged a fee/fine to implement it.

        We also have very reasonable rates where I live, in part due to North AMerica’s in general very cost-effective distribution system.

        Having 3 phase power in every home in germany may be convenient, but the prices they pay per kwh is not.

        Since I can make 3 phase out of single phase, I’d rather have the extra money in my pocket and suffer along with what I have.

  32. AltE says:

    I was pretty excited about this announcement, so I made an analysis video

  33. lar_lef says:

    Guys, give it a chance. It may not be practical for most, but the pioneers can test it and gradually the bugs (if present) and price will decline.History of technology.

  34. Dominic says:

    Guys! I need help. Does anyone know what wall screen and projection or display system Elon used for this presentation? It appear flat with him tossing shadows on it and yet it is massive and fairly clear.
    I need to know who makes this.
    Any help would be hugely appreciated.

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