Tesla Charging Stations In Manhattan To Outnumber Gas Stations 3 To 1

1 year ago by Eric Loveday 53

Tesla Chargers In Manhattan

Tesla Chargers In Manhattan

According to the New York Post, by the end of March, the number of Tesla charging stations in Manhattan could be triple the number of gas stations found there. The gas station count in currently at 40-ish, but the number continues to dwindle as new projects kick out less profitable gas stations.

The New York Post reports:

“Looking to make driving less of a pain for the 1,500 Big Apple owners of its electric cars, Tesla motors plans to greatly expand its network of Manhattan charging stations to 105 by March 31, The Post has learned.”

“Each will be able to provide a full charge in as little as four hours — and most will be free to Tesla owners.”

“The expansion, green-lighted by Tesla founder Elon Musk, means there could soon be three times as many electric-car charging stations in Manhattan as gas stations.”

One glance at the Tesla charger map reveals that all of the Manhattan Tesla chargers are of the destination charger variety, which are typically 80-amp High Power Wall Connectors. Some of these sites have J1772 Level 2 chargers attached. Most of the chargers are free, but a lot of them are in parking structures where you either need to pay to park or to  have an access card to gain entry.

The New York Post adds:

“As of Thursday, Tesla had outfitted 68 Manhattan garages with “destination chargers,” which can add about 60 miles of range per hour of charging to a Model S or Model X.”

“By September, there will be a Tesla charging station every three blocks…”

Quoting Tesla spokeswoman Alexis Georgeson:

“…in an effort to tackle the need for urban charging, we expanded the program and partnered with public garages that offer parking both by the hour or the month.”

Source: New York Post

Tags: , , , , ,

53 responses to "Tesla Charging Stations In Manhattan To Outnumber Gas Stations 3 To 1"

  1. SparkEV says:

    For people living in apartments, these “slow” charger would be pretty useful. But even L2 (6.6kW) would be fine for that. I wonder if L2 outnumber gas stations, too.

    By the way, if EV adoption becomes popular (~10%), what will happen to gas stations? Will they simply fold, or will they buy politicians to stop EV? I fear the latter.

    1. Rebel44 says:

      Most owners dont care what is source of income – many would likely be willing to replace gas pumps with chargers – they make little money on gas sales anyway – food and drink sales bring them most money.

    2. Someone out there says:

      From what I understand gas station already make more money from selling refreshments and other stuff than from selling gas so I don’t see why they wouldn’t just install EV chargers wherever they can fit them.

      1. Stephen says:

        Gas customers only need a few minutes to fill up so turn over is high. Even if every EV owner charging bought something in the store it would total much less than gas customers. Many gas stations will just close up for good.

        1. Dragon says:

          On road trips, it’s common to stop at each supercharger for 20-25 mins. Some people do stop longer so that throws things off, but the longer you stop, the more likely you’ll enter the convenience store. A high percentage of gas customers must swipe their card and go without entering the store. Of those that do enter the store and buy something, they must spend closer to 10 mins at the station. So all in all, EV customers might not bring so much less business that the store has to close. The store can also install twice as many chargers to make up for the slower customer throughput. Plus charging will gradually get faster.

    3. goodbyegascar says:

      Gascar drivers will experience range anxiety until they switch to electric.

      And retail establishments will miss out on captive shoppers until they install charging stations.

      Resistance is futile.

      1. TomArt says:

        Exactly!

      2. SparkEV says:

        Resistance may not be futile if there’s enough political buy-in. If change is so easy, we wouldn’t have this discussion. At current state of affairs, there will be immovable resistance. There should be some way for existing gas stations to stay in business somehow. How? Maybe topic for some future blog post.

        1. Stephen says:

          We are a long way from running out of gas stations

          1. goodbyegascar says:

            We were a long way from running out of pay phones.

            1. Dragon says:

              Phone companies now make more on iPhones. Plus I still see pay phones. Rare, but there.

              1. super390 says:

                Yeah, but try to find a current list of pay phone locations if your cell phone breaks.

  2. Bradley Goldman says:

    Why not just add a charger at each gas station? Anyone planning on opening a new station who is told they cannot have EV charging by the franchise should say, Thanks, i’ll call… until they say live and let live. If only 1 small company would agree, the others will follow because they wont want to lose the franchise business.

  3. meh says:

    Browser search for “Tesla”, “Model” and “3” is positive => this is another article about the Tesla Model 3 before release!

    Nice try disguising!

  4. fotomoto says:

    A gas station can serve hundreds per day and newer mega-stations with multiple islands like those on interstates can handle thousands so the stat is bit misleading.

    What will the EV/gas station ratio need to be to equal the same amount of vehicles per day? 10:1? 20:1?

    1. goodbyegascar says:

      Good point.

      I don’t think that we will see many charging stations based on the traditional gas station model, except on highways.

      “Topping off” our electric cars will be something that happens wherever we go; workplace, grocery store, pharmacy, theater, restaurant, library, etc.

      I suppose the frequency of charging away from home will probably evolve into ubiquitous wireless charging where we each subscribe to a charging network.

    2. sven says:

      Yeah, there are approximately 67 Tesla destination chargers in Manhattan, and the northernmost charger in Manhattan is on West 100th Street. Meanwhile there are only 8 gas stations south of 101st Street (10 gas stations south of 106th Street). Most of the Manhattan gas stations are located in upper Manhattan.

      Here’s a gas station map of Manhattan. Click on “time limit” and change to “All.”
      http://www.newyorkgasprices.com/map_gas_prices.aspx?z=11&lat=40.766311&long=-73.994024&sid=56297&ft=A

    3. kdawg says:

      I’m not sure of a precise way to measure this, but what we really should compare is: how does gas station miles provided vs miles needed relate to EV miles provided vs. needed.

      So 100% of gas miles will come from public stations. If people need to drive 1 million miles, then 1 million miles will be provided by gas stations, or 100%.

      If EVs need to drive 1 million miles, maybe only 5% of those will need to come from public stations, so that would be 50,000 miles.

      Therefore (in my hypothetical), 1 million gas miles = 50,000 EV miles (from public chargers). Basically I’m looking at what level of EV charging is necessary to take care of what the public needs now using gas.

      1. Brandon says:

        Kdawg, that is such a brilliant way too look at it. I like it!

      2. sbj says:

        But going forward, with more available public chagers, the number of EV owners without home chargers will grow.

        Five percent may be a good bet now, but I think it will increase as the infrastructure improves.

  5. walter says:

    There are more Tesla chargers in Manhattan than in whole Spain ( 2 now and at the end of the year 15 )

    1. Tim says:

      The Manhattan ones aren’t Superchargers. They are the ones you see at Tesla stores.

    2. There are more TSLA pumpers in Manhattan than the entire world.

  6. GasKilla says:

    Technically isn’t any location with a wall outlet a “Tesla charging station”? This is good news but anywhere you have electricity you have the ability to charge an EV, Tesla or otherwise

  7. Brian says:

    I’m growing more and more disappointed in Tesla’s proprietary chargers. For a company committed to leading us to an electrified future, it is sad that they exclude all other EVs from their networks.

    Of course, I’m not surprised. It is good business sense. But it is disappointing nonetheless.

    1. mustang_sallad says:

      I totally agree. I’m fine with the Supercharger network, they had to go their own way since other DCFC standards were far less capable, and Supercharger sites are generally dedicated new services anyways. But going into an existing building’s electrical panels and using up the low-hanging fruits of available spare capacity with needlessly exclusive Level 2 charging equipment is going to make it very expensive for building owners to scale up their EV infrastructure in the future.

      I’m hoping that Tesla will eventually catch on that they are needlessly creating barriers to EV adoption and simply adopt J1772. Imagine if the Model 3 came out with J1772 and CCS, simultaneously announcing a Supercharger to CCS adaptor.

      1. Khai L. says:

        How about others adopt Tesla’s standard instead? Instead of a J1772 outlet and a separate DCFC outlet, Tesla uses the same one! Why should Tesla adopt an inferior product?!

        1. TomArt says:

          Exactly – why screw around with frankenplugs? Tesla’s solution is far superior.

        2. mustang_sallad says:

          Because sharing the same pins for both AC and DC charging requires a lot of caution (extra cost) and may lead to fires if the controls screw up: http://www.autoblog.com/2016/03/18/tesla-fire-norway-cause-short-circuit/

          1. jamcl3 says:

            The same sharing of pins for both AC and DC use is allowed by SAE J1772 and the IEC equivalent. Not that anyone has taken advantage of it yet. It simply requires some redundant safety systems if I understand.

    2. meh says:

      If I remember correctly, Tesla invited every other manufacturer to join the network.

    3. CDAVIS says:

      @Brian said: “I’m growing more and more disappointed in Tesla’s proprietary chargers. For a company committed to leading us to an electrified future, it is sad that they exclude all other EVs from their networks.
      —–

      Elon Musk said:
      ““The intent of the Supercharger network is not to create a walled garden. Any other manufacturer that’s interested in using them, we’d be happy to accommodate. It’s just that they need to be able to accept the power level of the Superchargers, which is currently 135kW and rising, so any car needs to meet the Supercharger standard. And they’d also need to agree with the business model, which is we don’t charge people on a per-charge basis. They’d need to contribute to the capital costs proportional to their fleet’s usage of the network. So we think that’s pretty fair.”

      1. Brian says:

        That’s great, but this article is about destination charging, not supercharging. It is about destination charging. And as mustang_sallad elaborated, Tesla is taking a bunch of spare capacity and making it all proprietary. They could have made it J1772, and then charged all non-Tesla drivers a nominal fee. Tesla drivers can use the small adaptor to connect to J1772. IMHO, if Tesla was serious about supporting all EVs, they would make ALL destination charging J1772.

      2. Brian says:

        Regarding supercharging access, by putting to onus on car makers and not consumers, they are keeping their network restricted while giving an air of openness. Nissan may not want to play ball with their competitor, but what if a Leaf driver wants to use the network? Too bad.

        Again, Tesla *could* open it to anyone by installing CCS/CHAdeMO ports at each location. If you, as an owner, want to buy in, you pay some membership fee (monthly, one-time, pay-as-you-go, whatever), and Tesla mails you an access card. There is no technical reason they couldn’t do this (and bring in an additional revenue stream). The most likely reason they don’t is to maintain their competitive advantage. If the consumer wants access, they have to buy a Tesla vehicle. There is no other way.

        1. TomArt says:

          That’s adds complexity and expense. Furthermore, the blog post does state that some of these stations do have J1772 charging available.

          1. sven says:

            I believe the J1772 Level 2 chargers are also provided courtesy of Tesla.

          2. mustang_sallad says:

            The 1 or 2 J1772 EVSEs they provide are a token gesture, and don’t make up for the 80A of panel capacity soaked up by each HPWC. The EVSE is often just a $500 end point to a $5000 installation job. And guess what, after you’ve used up that easy-to-access spare capacity on the panel, adding the next batch of charging stations is going to be a lot more expensive!

    4. GasKilla says:

      They don’t exclude anyone from using their network, in fact they opened up all their patents to use for free. Any car manufacturer can adopt the Tesla standard connector (but would be required to contribute to the costs of the network). Other car makers don’t want to adopt the Tesla standard because they’d be admitting Tesla has a superior network etc. Suposedly some car makers have spoken to Tesla about this but no one has yet to take them up on the offer.

      1. Brian says:

        They exclude me from using their network because I cannot yet afford to buy a Tesla. Maybe in about 4-5 years from now when I can get a CPO Model III, I will be driving a Tesla. Maybe.

        See my above post.

      2. Tesla chargers are not open. It’s not a public standard. No charger company is allowed to make their own Tesla compatible chargers, without permission of Tesla. Tesla controls everything about their chargers.
        Opening the patents is useless, until they open their chargers communication software too.

        If Tesla ever gains more market share, anti-monopol commissions will hunt them down.

        1. floydboy says:

          Complete and utter tripe! Tesla does not hold a monopoly on electric charging, nor in any way prevents others from adopting any charging method or standard they so choose.

  8. GoBlue88 says:

    Don’t really understand why anyone but taxis, limos, and delivery vehicles drives on that island.

    1. wavelet says:

      That is pretty much the case for the people who drive daily (NYC is the only US city where a minority of people drive… Although you do have to recall that other boroughs are a completely different story. Staten Island & Queens are mostly one-family homes).

      Some people do keep car for getting out of the city on weekends, although of course the cost of parking to do so is pretty high.

      1. sven says:

        The rare municipal parking garages in Manhattan charge a reduced rate of about $20 per day to park, which is a bargain. On the Upper West Side of Manhattan, “working class” locals are up in arms over the plan to replace three of these low-cost garages with affordable housing.

        “UPPER WEST SIDE — Locals raged against a proposal to replace three low-cost parking garages with hundreds of new affordable housing units on West 108th Street — saying the potential loss of parking will lead drivers to ‘fights on the street.'”

        https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20160317/upper-west-side/working-class-uws-locals-dont-want-affordable-housing-replace-parking

  9. The fact that Tesla built the core battery pack and drive train for the RAV4 EV, to satisfy Toyotas need for a quick fix for some CARB credits, and fit it with about 40 kWh onboard, but only a single 10 kW AC charging, and Tony Williams has now built, tested, and is sellimg CHAdeMO kits and installs for it, tells me that with some effort, some Electrical / Electronics Engineer could make the reverse of Tesla’s J1772 adapter, and LEAF drivers with it could use destinatopn charging as well!

    To say that Tesla shut out others has been explained above and is false: it is the other OEM’s that have shut you out due to “Silly Human Pride” (Stand Tall!) So the solution would be to write your OEM customer service department for their EV’s, and ask them when their cars will be able to use the Tesla plug for Destination Charging at up to 20 kW?

    If every current EV owner wrote them with this question, put out blog posts encouraging others to do the same, and YouTube video’s doing the same, you could start to develop a dialog, and maybe some traction, too!

    Imagine if Carlos and Nissan said: ‘We will put CHAdeMO and Tesla ports in our LEAF 2.0, and provide a Tesla made J1772 adapter for general public or home charging. You will also have access to Tesla Destination Charging. For Supercharging Access it will be a flat $2,000.00!’ How much more valuable would those cars be?!

    1. SparkEV says:

      Based on behavior of those who get “free charge” (Leaf / i3), I’m glad Tesla didn’t open up superchargers. Without per use cost, it’s just inviting abuse, and long waits to result, even for those who really need it. If there’s per use fee, I wouldn’t mind them opening up Superchargers, but Musk said some time ago that there won’t be such fee.

      1. Jychevyvolt says:

        Leaf/i3 owners need charger etiquette training.

        1. Brian says:

          And/or bigger batteries. And Tesla Model S owners aren’t the model of etiquette either. See also the recent note to owners that Superchargers are intended for occasional / road-trip use only.

          1. Bill Howland says:

            Hi Brian:

            Well, I’m not sure of the particulars, but to the extent Tesla is paying for it (and I think in NY State it is much less than even 50% due to the credits available), they can do anything they want. Maybe they’ll even throw in a 15 amp clipper creek for the non-teslas. But 16 kw chargers will help keep the value up on the model “S”‘s that have the dual chargers (200 Volts @ 80 amps).

            Super390:

            You must not live in NYState, nor certainly NY City. Electricity pricing is so dear there are *NO* electric dryers. They, along with the water heaters (some steam powered) are all natural gas fired.

            Even at my end of the state in Western NY, none of the big box stores stock even residential electric dryers since (almost) no one would buy them.

            Bryan tells me his electricity cost is 9 1/2 cents/ kwh. My Natural Gas cost is 1.2 cents / kwh. A no brainer as to which fuel I’m going to use for heating applications.

  10. ModernMarvelFan says:

    Meaningless.

    The most important metric should be the number of ports x the refilling/refueling time.

    That is what it matters.

  11. super390 says:

    The logical place to put charging stations is laundromats:

    1. People who live in apartments not only lack garages, but often washing machines and dryers.

    2. Laundromats have big industrial dryers that use higher-power outlets that could support faster charging.

    3. Clothes get stolen at laundromats and you have to keep putting coins in the dryers to finish, so people are stuck there for a couple of hours anyway.

    1. Bill Howland says:

      In NY State I’ve never seen an electric ‘industrial’ dryer. They’re all GAS.

      Electricity is so expensive in NYC that Gas airconditioning is making a comeback.

      Consolidated Edison used to have a program to help fund the purchase of Gas fired (and also Steam Fired) Adsorption Water Chillers, since it relieves the necessity of finding electricity to run the otherwise electric chiller on days like August 1st.