NRG EVgo: We’re #1 With 37% Of The DC Fast Chargers In The U.S. – Tesla Is Only At 24%

1 year ago by Mark Kane 105

Nissan Says It Will Assist The Charging Markets Around The World On A Case-By-Case Basis, And That The US Is Rapidly Approaching 1,700 CHAdeMO Points Today

NRG EVgo fast charging station with Level 2 AC on side

NRG EVgo with 37% share of Fast Charge Locations in U.S.

NRG EVgo with 37% share of Fast Charge Locations in U.S.

NRG EVgo is a major charging infrastructure provider in the U.S. with decent number of fast chargers – no one has more publicly available charging locations, according to the company:

“If you are looking for a Fast Charge you are looking for EVgo! We are the nations leader in Fast Charge Locations! “

EVgo released a pie chart highlighting its leadership.

Fast Charge Locations:

  • EVgo 37%
  • Tesla 24%
  • Greenlots 17%
  • ChargePoint 11%
  • Blink (CarCharging) 10%
  • others 1%

We tried to explore the topic using 249 Tesla Supercharging locations in the U.S. from Supercharge.info as a reference and arrived at a rough estimated of the number of stations for each provider based on the data from EVgo:

  • EVgo 37% – 384
  • Tesla 24% – 249
  • Greenlots 17% – 176
  • ChargePoint 11% – 114
  • Blink (CarCharging) 10% – 104
  • others 1% – 10

Update:  While speaking to Chargepoint, a representative was keen to note that in actual fact their network had “240 Express DC Fast Chargers” locations.  ChargePoint Express units come in a “100” series (up to 24 kWh) and a “200” series (up to 50 kW).  It is unclear if EVgo was considering only full speed DCFC units or DCFC units in general.

The number of locations doesn’t reflect that if there is more than one DC fast charger installed at a significant part of those locations and that there are various types of chargers CHAdeMO, Combo and Tesla standards.  Obviously, Tesla still far outstrips everyone from an actual receptacle count standpoint, considering its Supercharging stations average about ~6-8 stalls per location

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105 responses to "NRG EVgo: We’re #1 With 37% Of The DC Fast Chargers In The U.S. – Tesla Is Only At 24%"

  1. Mark, did you reach out to them to clarify with specific numbers of simultanious charging points, or are they coumting 1 of their DCQC’s as equal to One Station, where Tesla Stations vary from 2 to 12 charging points per station with a typical number of 6 or 8 spots at each Station?

    Simply, saying what percent without the hard numbers leaves confusion and ambiguity.

    1. Josh says:

      EVgo didn’t say “chargers” they said “locations”. They are cherry picking to promote themselves.

      But they are probably the leading provider of quick charging in cities for LEAFs, i3s, and the few others with DCQC ports.

      Tesla doesn’t need that many locations since intracity charging isn’t the issue.

    2. ggpa says:

      +1

      And I think if you use a metric like number of sessions Tesla would far.

      And if you go by kWh Tesla wins by a landslide.

  2. Brandon says:

    EVgo does seem to be the only player for CCS and CHAdeMO chargers who is really expanding their network of their own initiative. If there’s anybody I would see now as a potential company to install intercity chargers for the 200 mile EVs as they come out it would be EVgo.

  3. James says:

    It’s not how many you’ve got, it’s where you put them that’s important.

    That’s why if you drive a Tesla you can drive across the US in three days, if you only use other DCFCs, it’ll take weeks to cross the country (unless you cheat with a flatbead truck of course).

    1. Brandon says:

      I don’t think it’s fair to compare them like that. The kW levels are different, 50 kW and 120 kW, hence the difference in how long a trip you can take. Also, mainstream EVs now are about 80 mile range.

      1. Philip d says:

        In a way it is fair play because it was NRG EVgo that trumpeted their superiority over Tesla in the charging arena. They were the ones making the comparison so they should be compared.

        1. Brandon says:

          I don’t have a problem with EVgo saying that they have more chargers. Comparing the locations is not fair I still maintain. It simply isn’t even possible here in 2016 for a mass marketed EV to practically travel long distance, so its not possible to have 100 to 150 kw chargers installed for them to travel those long distances. I’m not saying at all tho that EVgo is superior. Tesla clearly has the best network.

          1. Gotta start somewhere though. I recently sent an email to my State Rep and State Senator (I’m in GA) asking them to sponsor legislation to provide make locations available at every interstate rest stop and every state park in GA for a private charging station provider to install quick charge stations. Would cost the state little if anything other than some employee time, just make the land available and proactively encourage NRG etc to install quick chargers. Let NRG pay the install, get a separate meter to pay the electricity, and charge a market rate to consumers. I’m willing to overpay for QC sessions (compared to my home electricity rates) to get the locations added. Don’t need them often so who cares if I pay $5 or $10 each time I QC my Leaf.

  4. vdiv says:

    Wasn’t aware that nEVerGo was competing with Tesla in the first place. But since they are so inclined maybe they can share some statistics on their station’s reliability and availability. How about high-current AC charging? Do they offer any L2 stations higher than 30A as last time I had the pleasure of using their service they were barely pushing 22A with a defective and recalled Bosch EVSE…

    1. arne-nl says:

      Agreed. Since Tesla’s are long range EV’s, you don’t need that many of them to have full coverage.

      I’d like to know the kWh’s delivered. That is a better indication of who is the biggest.

  5. Benjamin says:

    I bet Tesla dominates on number of actual chargers, since the average Supercharger station has about 6 fast chargers/stalls per station while EVgo seems to be mostly single chargers with a couple level 2 thrown in.

    Plus Tesla dominates with the speed of their chargers and they’ve built out their network for long-range travel around the US, while EVgo is in metropolitan areas.

  6. Bob Nickson says:

    They’re so ugly.

  7. Jerico says:

    Are we talking about stalls or just charging stations?

    They don’t get it, it’s much more convenient to have a single place with 8 stalls that gives you up to 135kW than 4 different locations with 2 stalls up to 50kW, it makes a huge difference.

    It’s great they are expanding the network but they shouldn’t compare it to Tesla’s so naively.

  8. Omar Sultan says:

    At the end of the the DCFC infrastructure is growing and that is good for everyone – I would even venture even Elon would not mind spinning the data a bit in this case.

    1. Breezy says:

      Elon Musk put a spin on data? I can’t imagine.

  9. Jernej says:

    Only info relevant is amount of GWh that charged the batteries.

  10. Breezy says:

    Putting aside one company’s promotional materials for a moment, there are many more CCS and CHAdeMO stations (locations) in the US than Supercharger stations. Superchargers have more stalls per location at this point, and they are currently much better distributed, more reliable, and faster. No contest.

    But number of locations does matter. A 6- or 8-stall Supercharger that’s an hour out of my way is of no use to me. If I have a 1 or 2 stall CCS station on my route, it’s still faster Point A to B.

  11. Texas FFE says:

    I like that evGO is not dependent on proprietary technology and anybody can charge but I wish the evGO stations were spread out so I could travel by EV more easily cross country. I wish Tesla would get out of the charging station business and sell all stations to evGO. evGO could covert all Tesla stations to CHAdeMO/CCS/L2 so everyone could charge.

    If I was a lawyer I would try to file a class action lawsuit against Tesla for forcing people to buy Tesla vehicles before they can use the Tesla charging stations. I still think Tesla is breaking anti-trust laws with by owning proprietary charging stations.

    1. shane says:

      Really? You’d threaten Tesla for being innovative and getting out front with it’s own money? If Elon is as serious about mass EV adoption as he says, it seems it would make sense to add CCS & CHAdeMO connections to Tesla sites. But threatening legal action seems way wrong.

    2. RexxSee says:

      Yes of course, like Shell, Exxon, BP etc. what a shame!

    3. shane says:

      Also, noone is forcing anyone to buy Tesla cars. Tesla is winning on their merits. That’s how it is supposed to work unless someone has a monopoly. Tesla has created this market (long range pure EV vehicle). There are expected to be competitors (based on announcements) and their are competing charging standards that can be deployed if electric utilities, investors, car makers or whoever choose to do so. Currently Tesla has a very strong position in this space. If Tesla was actively blocking other standards/deployments maybe there would be grounds – but I’ve heard no evidence of that.

      1. Texas FFE says:

        It’s the same thing as Standard oil building a railroad that only allows Standard oil to transport on. Yes of course another oil company could build another railroad but Standard got there first and is trying to force out competition using its position. Standard oil got broken up for doing this kind of thing.

        Of course Tesla got there first but they closed the door to all competition, which is legal in the United States. Tesla should have adopted a common charging technology. Tesla has seriously hurt the electric vehicle adoption and, by doing so, the country by their proprietary practices.

        1. Josh says:

          I can’t image what lens you look through to think “Tesla has seriously hurt electric vehicle adoption”.

          1. Texas FFE says:

            I am very, very frustrated. I have an electric vehicle that I enjoy very much but I can’t go anywhere outside of town because there are no charging stations. Then I look at Plugshare and see all these wonderful Tesla Superchargers stations that crisscross the country that I can’t use because I can’t afford a Tesla unless I bankrupt myself. The lenses I look through are not rose colored, they are blood red.

            1. Josh says:

              Then just wait ~1 year longer than the release of the Bolt, and buy a Model 3.

              It is strange to blame Tesla because they were the only automaker to believe EVs could be more than “city cars” and develop the technology to enable that.

              Bolt (and Volt for the matter, Bob Lutz quote) would never exist without Tesla.

              1. Texas FFE says:

                If Tesla really believed in EVs they should have supported all EV models and not just their own EV models at thier charging stations. A rising tide raises all ships.

                1. Ed says:

                  I guess this means no one should take the risk in creating a new product and service, because they may get accused of anti-trust for developing something that hadn’t existed before! What a bizarre concept.

                  Tesla didn’t buy up all the competition– it created something new. They’re not stopping others from doing the same.

                  1. Texas FFE says:

                    Anti- trust laws are to keep companies from taking unfair advantage and keeping those companies from hurting the public in doing so. Tesla with their proprietary charging stations are taking unfair advantage and are hurting the public.

                    1. Ziv says:

                      FFE, your thinking is just bizarre. Tesla built the Supercharger network to service their cars. It isn’t exclusionary, if you want to use a Supercharger, buy a Tesla. Everyone is invited. If you can’t afford a Tesla, join the club. I would like to own one too, but I don’t bemoan Tesla owners right to use the SC network.
                      Saying that you should be able to use someone else’s property just because you want to and you are willing to sue to get that access?
                      That is just un-American.
                      You want a national charger network for your car? Then build that network yourself, don’t F up a good network by suing the owner.

                2. Rebel44 says:

                  Tesla made public offer towards other EV makers, that they would allow access if their EVs can charge at sufficient rate (not to hog station whole day) and if they contribute towards SC station buildup and running costs.

            2. JH says:

              As a matter of fact the tesla standard is just that; a standard. It is open and free to implement (tesla has publically stated this) And htey have also opened the door, even encouraged, other makers to jump on board as long as they can handle the speed given by the station.

              So in short; dont blame tesla, the failure sits squarely on the shoulders of makers like nissan, chevrolet etc. They have the choice, they choose to limit your car. Not tesla.

            3. “Texas FFE”
              Do you own a PEV that can travel ~150-200 miles per charge?

              FYI: if your PEV does not have the range, you will not be able to use more that one Supercharge in the Tesla Energy network without additional infrastructure!

              Guessing if Tesla granted access to short-range PEV, the complaints like yours would become why doesn’t Tesla space Superchargers closer together.
              FYI: Tesla balanced the cost of building a network today that is pragmatic today and in future, and will remain relevant as lower cost longer-range 150-200 miles PEVs become more cost competitive.

          2. Forever green says:

            I will be buying a Chevy Bolt or the Tesla 3 when they come to market, However I do think Tesla is a bit unfair with the chargers. Tesla has an adapter that you can use at a CHAdeMO fast charge, but no one can fast charge at the Tesla charging station unless they have a Tesla vehicle. I don’t think this helps Tesla’s competition, I think this hurts the competition and slows the adoption of electric vehicles in general.

            1. Texas FFE says:

              At least someone here agrees with me. Most people posting here appear more interested in bashing my moniker and singing Tesla praises than considering what harm Tesla might be doing. Oh well, just being an EV advocate means I’m use to going against the wind. Maybe my comments here will provoke thought and inspire change.

              1. Ocean Railroader says:

                I kind of don’t like how Teslas can go charge at the Nissan dealerships on the quick chargers. But the low range EV’s can’t use the Tesla super chargers.

                What I think would fix this if Tesla added one Chamo and CSS charger to their Supercharger locations even if it was a pay to use quick charger.

        2. Get Real says:

          That’s crazy T-FFE. Tesla is the main company pushing for COMPELLING long-range BEVs and a supporting fast-charging system that makes long-distance travel relatively easy with their cars. All in the goal of pushing the transition to SUSTAINABLE transportation.

          If it wasn’t for Tesla’s unrelenting pressure on the laggard OEMs, we would not have nearly as fast a rollout of the other EV auto (think the new Bolt) and charging companies without Tesla’s pressure.

          1. Texas FFE says:

            You say Tesla is pushing, I say they are pulling. I admit that Tesla has advanced electric vehicle technology and automotive technology in general but at what cost? How many more Nissan Leafs, Focus Electrics, BMW I3s, VW e-Golfs, Chevy Bolts, Kia Sols etc. would have/will sold if they could use the Tesla Superchargers? How many more long distance EVs would be entering the market now if there was a long distance charging network to support them? Are the loss of all these other EV sales worth the advances made by Tesla? These are questions that will linger until the end of time because Tesla decided not to support alternative charging technologies at their charging stations.

            1. TomArt says:

              It costs a lot of money to do that, and when Tesla started out, only their cars were even capable of using the SCs! The distance between the SCs, and the more than 2x charging rates, means that there is no production vehicle on the market yet that could possibly use SCs!

              For a licensing fee that GM wouldn’t hardly notice, GM could have licensed the SC technology from Tesla – Musk was practically begging for other automakers to take advantage of the superior SC network and protocols. But, they have not. Their loss, and their customers’ loss. And, really, Tesla’s loss, because they will have to continue to bear the full cost of the SC network and run a very real risk of being shut out once companies like evgo decide to build their own network to accommodate these recalcitrant automakers’ products.

              1. Ambulator says:

                “For a licensing fee that GM wouldn’t hardly notice, GM could have licensed the SC technology from Tesla”

                Only if GM increased the charging rate of the Bolt. I don’t think 50 kW or even 60 kW would be good enough.

            2. TomArt says:

              Of course, nothing is stopping evgo or any other charging company to license SC technology, but the automakers would have to make cars that work.

              Also, bear in mind a very important point I had forgotten about – the Tesla superchargers do not operate like normal chargers – the SC bypasses the internal chargers in Teslas and have a separate means by which the battery is charged.

              Simply providing adapters (which would get stolen) and a computer system able to handle the variety of protocols would not be enough. The automakers have to make vehicles compatible with the whole SC concept.

            3. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

              Texas FFE continued his anti-Tesla rant:

              “How many more Nissan Leafs, Focus Electrics, BMW I3s, VW e-Golfs, Chevy Bolts, Kia Sols etc. would have/will sold if they could use the Tesla Superchargers?”

              None. Zero. Nada. Zilch.

              No non-Tesla EV now in production can accept the fast charging rate of a Supercharger.

              “How many more long distance EVs would be entering the market now if there was a long distance charging network to support them?”

              Again: Tesla offered to share its patents with any other auto maker which would join and support the Supercharger network. They are still free to do so, if and when they want to.

              Guess what? They don’t want to. But somehow you’ve twisted the facts around in your mind to convince yourself this is Tesla’s fault!

              Just bizarre. In fact, Ludicrous™!

        3. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

          Texas FFE said:

          “Of course Tesla got there first but they closed the door to all competition, which is legal in the United States. Tesla should have adopted a common charging technology. Tesla has seriously hurt the electric vehicle adoption and, by doing so, the country by their proprietary practices.”

          I suppose this is an achievement of sorts: It’s the silliest thing I have ever seen posted to InsideEVs!

          Standard Oil owned, at one time, 90% or more of the gas stations in the USA, making it impossible for any other company to compete. That is what a “monopoly” is.

          Tesla has maybe, at most, 1/3 of 1% of all new car sales in the USA. That’s so far from a “monopoly” that it’s literally laughable.

          Tesla isn’t preventing any other company from competing. In fact, everybody is talking about the GM Bolt, which probably will for the first time offer serious competition to Tesla. We can expect more competition within the next year or two from Nissan, and likely BMW, if not other auto makers.

          Also, Texas FFE, Tesla explicitly offered its patents to any auto maker who would agree to join and support the Supercharger network. So your argument has absolutely no basis in fact or reality. None at all.

        4. ffbj says:

          Invalid comparison.

        5. Ocean Railroader says:

          I have seen cases in Virginia where there will be a Tesla Supercharger and a CSS and Chamo charger sharing the same shopping center parking lot.

    4. Stimpacker says:

      Don’t forget to sue Apple too. They too have proprietary connectors/cables for their products.

      If Apple were a car company, nobody else can have round steering wheels.

    5. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      Texas FFE said:

      “If I was a lawyer I would try to file a class action lawsuit against Tesla for forcing people to buy Tesla vehicles before they can use the Tesla charging stations.”

      Oh, why stop there? Anybody should be able to go into a restaurant and grab food and drink from the kitchen. And hotels; how dare they charge money to sleep in their beds? They should provide hotel rooms to anyone who wants one!

      Sarcasm aside… Surprising to see this comment from a Texan. I don’t think there are a lot of dyed-in-the-wool Socialists in Texas!

      1. Texas FFE says:

        Socialist is a dirty word in Texas Partner.

        1. OB1 says:

          If Texas wasn’t a socialist state they would allow Tesla’s to be sold there.

          1. Texas FFE says:

            Let’s see, Texas is a state with a lot individually owned dealerships, with laws to keep a big organization from coming and setting up shop without allowing locally owned dealerships and your calling that state socialist? You know a very strange definition of socialism.

            1. Rebel44 says:

              That sure doesnt look like “open market”, where its up to a consumer where and how he buys a product (car in this case).

              Its just stupidity combined with corruption.

              Hell, even is “socialist” EU, we can buy car from Tesla directly, without any problems.

              1. Texas FFE says:

                So you’re saying Texas is stupid, corrupt and socialist. No, I don’t agree with any of those things. If Texas was anything like that I would leave and I have no plans to leave. If Texas was as bad as you indicate why do we have build walls to keep people out?

            2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

              Texas FFE said:

              “You know a very strange definition of socialism.”

              And you have a very strange definition of “monopoly”.

          2. Texas FFE says:

            OBTW 5% of all new and 8% of all used Teslas are sold in Texas.

            1. Rebel44 says:

              Only because federal laws prevent Texas from restricting peoples ability to buy cars outside of state.

              1. TomArt says:

                Exactly. If states were free to disrupt interstate commerce, then those stats would be “0%” and “0%”.

                1. Brandon says:

                  Texas FFE, I can certainly understand your frustration. Here’s my take on this. Until now, and until the Bolt and Leaf 2 and Model 3 are here, we aren’t in the era of affordable long range EVs. Until now, battery prices would not have allowed it. Too expensive. The time just hasn’t come quite yet.

    6. sven says:

      Tesla is not a monopoly; anti-trust laws would not apply.

      1. Texas FFE says:

        I disagree. But the point is Tesla has hurt EV adoption and the country with their proprietary charging stations.

        1. Texas FFE says:

          There was supposed to be 1 million EVs sold in the US by 2015 but we didn’t even make half of that. How many more EVs might have been sold if Tesla had supported other charging systems at their stations? Yes, I’m saying Tesla is largely to blame for why we didn’t make the 1 million mark. We might have done worse without Tesla but we definitely would have done better if Tesla charging stations had supported competing charging technologies.

          1. Foob says:

            What does it matter if they support chademo or ccs? Superchargers are 150 miles apart. You couldn’t use them with a FFE anyway. Tesla’s proprietary chargers might slow adoption after 2016 (versus the same locations with standardized chargers) once non-Teslas become available that could theoretically use them, but it’s hard to argue that they slowed it before now.

            1. Texas FFE says:

              Theoretically use them? My trip cross country in my FFE wasn’t theory and I drove right past a bunch of Tesla charging stations. I definitely would have used the Tesla charging stations if I could have. I think you’re drastically underestimating how people want and are willing to drive their electric vehicles.

              1. OB1 says:

                So I pay 100,000 dollars for my new tesla and on my cross country trip I got to wait for hours at each stop while slow charging focus electrics have to top off to make it another 50 miles.

    7. SparkEV says:

      I couldn’t diagree more! We have enough lawsuits. But if I’m Chevy, I’d tap Tesla for supercharger use for Bolt (not free, of course). Besides the lack of horsepower, 50kW DCFC for Bolt is ridiculous to call it “mass market EV”.

      1. Texas FFE says:

        Tesla has talked about sharing their equipment but so far all its been is talk. I’ll back off when I start seeing some real sharing.

        1. Garrity says:

          Sharing means sharing the expense of maintaining and expanding the system. It is up to the OTHER parties if they want to join/partake of the Tesla network.

          From what I see on plugshare, many of the Supercharger stations are NOT on TESLA exclusive properties, meaning that NRG or anyone else who wants to can put a charging station where the Superchargers are at. So Tesla is not excluding anyone from premium spots.

          Also, most current BEV’s can’t even get to some SC’s because they are beyond their 80 mile ranges. Is Tesla expected to spend their limited resources to help along inferior standards?

          1. Texas FFE says:

            Tesla charges Tesla owners to use the Superchargers, Tesla should be able to some kind charging agreement for non-Tesla owners.

            Saying Tesla hasn’t taken up all choice spots is like a railroad saying you can’t use my railroad because you can build a railroad right next to mine, that didn’t work for Stadard Oil and it shouldn’t be allowed to work for Tesla.

            Speaking as someone who has driven their 80 mile range EV cross country, yes I very much wish Tesla had used there limited resources to build charging stations I could charge at and I would have no problem paying my fair share to do so.

            1. TomArt says:

              Railroads are a poor example. Railroads have always been built with private funds, and they are not flexible like normal roads. If you want more capacity, you have to build a second track, providing signalling and turnouts, etc., to try to connect everything.

              Roads are built with public funds, and any vehicle is physically capable of using them. If they need more capacity, they just add a lane. Anybody can drive on or off of roads along the way and anyone can build homes and businesses along the roads, no problem.

              Saying that SCs have taken all the prime spots is hilarious. SCs are located in shopping centers rest stops, where there are multiple facilities. Nothing is stopping another charging outfit to put their chargers in the same parking lot, or an adjacent parking lot, to where Tesla set up their SCs!

              The SC business model (a business model, not a public service) is not in any way preventing other automakers from taking advantage of the technology, nor is it preventing other charging networks to set up in the same locale as the SCs!

              1. Texas FFE says:

                I think you misunderstood the analogy. Let’s say I want to buy oil and the only way to get oil where you are is by railroad. If Gulf oil is less expensive but the only oil the railroad will ship to you is the more expensive Standard oil then the the railroad has a Trust with Standard oil and that’s against the law. Since the only way you can use the Tesla charging stations is if a Tesla automobile is used then Tesla automobile manufacturing has a Trust with Tesla charging stations. Since both the Tesla charging stations and Tesla automobile manufacturing are owned by the same company then the Trust becomes a Monopoly. Both Trusts and Monopolies, where they are able to control pricing and delivery, are illegal in the United States. Like I said, I’m not a lawyer but what Tesla is doing sure looks illegal to me.

            2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

              Texas FFE continued his rant:

              “Saying Tesla hasn’t taken up all choice spots is like a railroad saying you can’t use my railroad because you can build a railroad right next to mine, that didn’t work for Stadard Oil and it shouldn’t be allowed to work for Tesla.”

              This is, again, both laughable and Ludicrous™. All cars use the same highways; Tesla can’t prevent cars made by other auto makers from using those same highways.

              There is absolutely nothing to prevent any other company from building more EV fast charge stations along major highways, just as there is absolutely nothing preventing more gas stations from being built along those same highways. The latter happens all the time.

              The only thing preventing more fast charge stations from being built to enable long-distance travel is a lack of paying customers. That will change in the future, as more and more long-range BEVs appear on the roads.

              As they say, Texas FFE: You’re entitled to your opinions, but you’re not entitled to your own facts.

              P.S. — your definition of “monopoly” certainly reads like the way a Socialist would define it.

            3. Garrity says:

              Respect for taking your EV cross country. I can only stare at plugshare (daily) imagining how I would make those trips.

              Now lets say you controlled Tesla. Would you spend money on CHAdeMO and Combo chargers that charge almost 3 x slower than your SC’s.

              Or take the money and build more SC’s that Tesla owners present and future are wanting/needing?

              Or to pay other expenses. Tesla is still not profitable at this point. Some would say they are fighting to stay solvent with all the money they are losing.

              There is a valid reason why NRG and others are not building chargers along freeways like Tesla and I can not argue against their decision from a financial point of view.

    8. TomArt says:

      First, with “Texas” in your moniker, you are losing a lot of credibility in your argument simply because that state is notorious for shameless protectionism, the auto dealerships being the perfect relevant example.

      Second, Tesla is not blocking anyone from using their SCs. Musk announced a long time ago that Tesla is open to licensing the tech to anyone who wants to join in.

      Third, from a practical point of view, non-Tesla’s cannot use the SCs because only Teslas can handle the output power. SCs put out more than twice the power that other “fast chargers” put out. You need a big battery with many cells to handle those sorts of charging rates.

      Fourth, the known 80-mile EV can’t go far enough to make extended travel practical. If you want to putter along in such a crippled vehicle, then that is your choice, but don’t expect anyone, particularly a company with a competing product that actually can go cross-country as conveniently as a gas vehicle, to accommodate you.

      In particular, these 80- and 100-mile EVs cannot reach between SCs!! Even if Tesla provided adapters for other EVs, you couldn’t use them because you can’t get there!

      Sixth, the Tesla connector is far superior to these other accepted “standards” – Tesla connectors are small and easy to handle. They are as elegant to use as to look at.

      Seventh, the whole purpose of the dealer protection laws was to prevent the automakers from competing against their own dealerships. Tesla never had dealerships, so the laws did not apply to Tesla. The laws in many states have been changed since Tesla spread beyond the West Coast, banning any automaker, regardless of circumstances, from direct sales.

      1. TomArt says:

        Eighth, and the most important, is that the Tesla Superchargers do not go through the onboard chargers in Teslas. SCs charge Teslas on a separate means built into Tesla vehicles that bypass the internal charging circuits and programming.

        Even if Tesla added adapters and protocols, the automakers still have to make vehicles compatible with the whole Supercharger system, which includes the vehicle’s internals, not just the charging stalls.

        1. Texas FFE says:

          I had been seriously considering trying to buy a used Model S or waiting to buy a Model III but your arrogant elitist comments have help me make up my mind. I am never going to buy a Tesla as long as they are pushing proprietary charging architecture. And I am going to tell everyone that will listen to boycott Tesla unless their predatory charging model and start supporting alternative charging architecture.

          I’m never buying any electric vehicle that does not use open charging architecture. I think any manufacturers that that designs their cars around proprietary charging is hurting the adoption of electric cars much more than helping no matter how exciting their cars are. Tesla is hurting the country but they are hurting no one more than Tesla vehicle owners.

          With negative cash flow, going against deaer franchise practices and ownership of charging stations, Tesla is based on a very shaky business model. Where are Tesla owners going to charge their cars when Tesla goes bankrupt and all those Tesla charging stations no longer get electricity? How are all those Teslas going to worth when all the Superchargers disappear?

          The upstart from South Africa thinks he come to America, ignore cooperation with established organization on charging architecture, ignore established dealer franchise business models and turn the automotive industry upside down. Well guess what, the real auto manufacturers, GM, Ford, Toyota, VW, Chrysler, etc. have just started to roll out electric vehicles. Tesla will lucky to survive when the big boys start rolling hundreds of thousands of electric vehicles every year.

          So TomArt congratulations, you have officially created a Tesla basher!

          1. SparkEV says:

            As a former GM EV fanatic (now merely a fan with Bolt), I hope you don’t let forum commenters discourage for the actual car / car maker. Tesla holds great promise, and only game in town for now (probably few more years) if you want to charger more than 50kW.

      2. SparkEV says:

        “non-Tesla’s cannot use the SCs because only Teslas can handle the output power.”

        That is plain wrong. Higher power charger can be throttled down. For example, Tesla charges at less than 50kW using 120kW charger when the battery is 80% or more. Other EV would simply operate in lower power mode.

    9. wraithnot says:

      “I wish Tesla would get out of the charging station business and sell all stations to evGO. evGO could covert all Tesla stations to CHAdeMO/CCS/L2 so everyone could charge.”

      Converting superchargers to CHAdeMO/CCS/L2 would be an absolutely terrible idea. I’d probably sell my Model S if they did that because even with adapters it would no longer be a viable long distance road trip car for us due to the 200A limit imposed by CHAdeMO and CCS plugs. This limitation is precisely why Tesla didn’t adopt CCS as per a 2013 interview with JB Straubel. If the US auto manufactures had agreed to adopt a standard that allowed for more amps then we’d have a single US standard. So it’s really unfair to blame Tesla for mistakes made by other auto manufacturers.

    10. Tim says:

      Most relevant part of your post was “if I was a lawyer”. You don’t know what anti-trust laws are, so you clearly aren’t one.

      Tesla is under no obligation to make their charging network accessible to others.

  12. Ed says:

    “If I have a 1 or 2 stall CCS station on my route, it’s still faster Point A to B.”
    Not if that one stall is occupied it isn’t.

    1. Rebel44 says:

      or if its fauly

  13. shane says:

    Maybe if Tesla and EVgo and others are serious about fostering mass adoption, they will cross-enable the other standard at their sites. Adding CCS and CHAdeMO plugs to Tesla sites and Tesla plugs to EVgo and other non-Tesla sites seems like it would be a win for everyone – and dramatically expand the recharge sites at not that much additional cost to the charging site providers.

    1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      I can’t see why any rational person would suggest Tesla should pay to enable lower charging rates, for non-Tesla cars, at its Supercharger locations. The ability to use Superchargers is an exclusive perk which Tesla car owners pay for the privilege of using.

      Letting just anyone use the chargers, without them paying to support the Supercharger network, would destroy the benefit Tesla car owners get from being able to access the Supercharger network, and it would destroy the benefit Tesla gets from the Supercharger network promoting sales of its cars.

      It would also greatly increase the clogging and waiting lines at the busier Supercharger locations.

      1. shane says:

        I wasn’t suggesting it be free – just possible (offer it with whatever upfront and recurring charges they want). I guess the question is is what is most important? Pursuing financial advantage or enabling wider EV adoption? I’m not saying Tesla should act contrary to it’s financial advantage – but then just admit that. Likewise, done right, it might be to their financial advantage.

        1. liberty says:

          I don’t understand how this would help tesla, or others if tesla added a slow lane and charged a lot for it. And it would cost a lot.

          Tesla has offered the car companies their technology, and if they pay and install, then those long run bevs can charge fast. Tesla looks to be charging about $2000/car. There are 265 tesla locations and 982 50 kw slower chademo locations. Chademo is controlled by the japanese. Combo plug isn’t used by nissan, butis by gm and bmw. Why not ask nissan to provide combto plugs at their dealerships? Most evgo at least have both chademo and combo.

  14. SparkEV says:

    Yet, I still can’t drive from SoCal to NoCal using eVgo DCFC…

  15. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

    The article says:

    “Tesla still far outstrips everyone from an actual receptacle count standpoint, considering its Supercharging stations average about ~6-8 stalls per location”

    According to a discussion on the Tesla Motors Forum, back when the Supercharger network was still fairly new, the average was only 5 stalls per location.

    Has the average number increased over the past 18-24 months or so?

    1. Vexar says:

      The number of Tesla Supercharger stalls per location has climbed where needed. I’m pretty sure that the location in Lusk, WY hasn’t changed, along with Worthington, MN and Moab, UT. However, I will argue that the Tesla locations are sometimes stunning places to visit, like St. George, UT:

      1. Joshua Burstyn says:

        Or the one in Buffalo!

      2. TomArt says:

        That is stunning!

      3. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        Gorgeous! Thanks for sharing, Vexar!

    2. TomArt says:

      Yes, the average jumped to over 5 stalls per location, and the US national average has gone up over 6 stalls per location within the last 12 months. I have read where a few of the old locations have had additional stalls added (no idea which ones).

      1. wraithnot says:

        Many of the original stations in California had extra plugs added to accommodate demand. This happened at Harris Ranch (originally 1 stall, then six stalls, now 10 stalls); Gilroy (originally 4 stalls, now 10 stalls); Barstow (originally 4 stalls, now 8 stalls); Hawthorne (originally 5 stalls, now 12). If I remember correctly, Fremont started out as 4 stalls- it now has 12 stalls. Tesla is also building another Fremont location with a whopping 20 stalls since this location is so busy.

        1. Ocean Railroader says:

          I think a 30 or 50 stall Tesla location might be possible in the next few years due to raising demand.

          My personal theory is that exponential growing demand will be the thing that topples the Tesla Super charging system.

          This same rule is why you will have a highway and instead of widening it to keep traffic flowing they add a toll instead to try to control demand. When in reality they should have widened it.

  16. Stimpacker says:

    I should be jumping with joy. The sad truth is even with a 200-mile CHAdeMO EV, I cannot make any long trips RELIABLY. I have charge anxiety (1-2 stations maybe full, blocked, down?).

    With a 200-mile Supercharging Tesla, I can make the same trips without any anxiety.

    1. Garrity says:

      I won’t even make medium trips. There are no less than 7 DCFC between San Francisco and where I live (80 miles one way) But I take my ICE Van because of reliability and availability and the fact that it would cost more to charge than using my ICE.

      Once I get a 200+ mile BEV I will be able to bypass all those DCFC’s, but still can’t get down to LA.

      1. ffbj says:

        Hopefully soon you will not have to paste that comment up anymore. Just sayin.

  17. Are the stations being equally equated?

    Most Tesla Superchargers (120 kW) are mostly located for en-route “extended-range charging”, Tesla has over 1,200 high power wall charging location that provide 20 kW AC “destination charging”.

    The DC Quick charger from Blink, EVgo tend to offer a mix of fast “destination charging” and “extended-range charging” along metro corridors. The major difference is location type, not power level supplied. To be useful for “extended-range” a DCQC must be 24/7 accessible and near exits to main travel routes. DCQC located at dealer, or malls that have limited hours are essentially “destination charging”..

    An important distinction for “extended-range” charging stations is that multiple-pairs of DC outlet connectors are provided to ensure redundancy in case of hardware failure, and to accommodate multiple BEVs when there is more traffic along a route!

  18. Koenigsegg says:

    Only charge at home 🙂

  19. ffbj says:

    Regarding who should sue whom. I think Texas has a reasonable case against a certain individual for using their name as part of his call sign. The basis for which would be, it defames their state.

  20. James says:

    I’d guess that around 90% of the Blinks don’t work.

  21. James says:

    Tesla actually places their stations where they are needed. I don’t give a crap about a fast quarter station if it’s not convenient, i.e. car dealerships.

  22. Tim says:

    I looked into using an eVGO station. It was such a hassle I just decided not to bother.

  23. John says:

    Agree with what others have said about them picking the numbers that make them look good, but that is no more than a lot of corporations do. I take it all with a grain of salt.

    Bigger issue for me is where they place these. Most are in and around major metro areas. Few are between cities. There still aren’t enough fast charge locations for people to make it from LA to the Bay Area in decent time in any non-Tesla vehicle. That is a huge hole in infrastructure on one of the busiest corridors in a state that dominates EV sales.

    Why is this so? I think it’s because most of these companies think like typical businesspeople and only put chargers where there is already a market for them and will generate immediate profits. No one seems to want to put chargers where they will be a catalyst to create new business. Complete lack of vision and willingness to risk a little for it.

  24. OB1 says:

    In this sue happy world tesla promises that you can use their patents without fear.