Nissan Targets 342-Mile*/550 KM LEAF By 2020

4 months ago by Eric Loveday 124

Nissan IDS Concept foreshadows look of the next generation LEAF for 2018

Nissan has reportedly developed a LEAF-sized vehicle that can go up to 342 miles on a single charge.

2018 Nissan LEAF

But it won’t launch until 2020, or so.

A crude translation from Japanese site Techon provides us with the details.

“Nissan Motor started investigating to introduce EV (Electric Vehicle) reaching the range of about 550 km per charge per charge.”

Kazuo Yajima, Renault-Nissan Alliance Global Director of EV · HEV technology, is the man behind this revelation. Yajima says that in the future, pure electric vehicles, not plug-in hybrids, will dominate. He adds that over the next few years, PHEVs will likely become obsolete as the charging infrastructure grows and electric vehicle ranges increases dramatically.

The big leap comes by 2020:

“We have developed a prototype vehicle that can run 550 km while keeping the cargo capacity with the same external dimension as the current LEAF.”

Says Yajima. That’s 342 miles (we assume using the optimistic Jc08, which would be more like 250 miles of real world/EPA range). That range figure is achieved by using a new battery cell with increased energy density. Packaging of the cells is more dense too.

This information comes after new CEO Hiroto Saikawa earlier talked in April about a 300 mile target for 3 years from now saying. “…It’s a usable range, 300 miles. I believe that the technology will lead us to go there.”

Source: Techon

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128 responses to "Nissan Targets 342-Mile*/550 KM LEAF By 2020"

  1. Djoni says:

    But, how far the Leaf 2.0 will go?
    Tic, tac, tic tac…

    1. Phr00t says:

      Good question. Good thing the sourced article has information on that:

      http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/atcl/mag/15/397260/040300156/?SS=imgview&FD=-483439470

      Notice the 350-400km number for the upcoming Leaf 2.0. Converting that to EPA miles, gives you roughly 139.8 miles.

      People are grossly overestimating Leaf 2.0’s projected range. It won’t be 200+, likely well below 150 miles.

      1. chano says:

        Good thing this journalist was invited there and know that the 250 miles car is coming in 2018.
        http://dailykanban.com/2015/10/2nd-gen-leaf-expected-2018-60kwh-nmc-battery-300-mile-range-autonomous-cfrp/

        1. Phr00t says:

          That article is almost 2 years old. It is based on prototypes & vague future hopes. Fast forward to today, and they are downplaying the range — take for example the recent quote “We can do 200 miles. 300 miles. The question is cost.” from http://www.automobilemag.com/news/new-nissan-leaf-debuts-september-arrives-years-end/

          1. chano says:

            Automotive news
            http://www.autonews.com/article/20170410000100/OEM02/304109954?
            the 300 mile the new cEO said was clear USA standard as he said 300 usable in the US.

            1. Phr00t says:

              That article is looking forward to a 300 mile vehicle “before 2020”. They are not talking about the Leaf 2.0. We will see if they can deliver on that promise. Remember that “before 2020” could mean announced before 2020 and delivered after. 300 “usable” miles does not necessarily mean 300 miles according to the EPA standard, either. It is marketing hype and projections, ultimately.

              1. Martin Winlow says:

                You may be right but in the light of the Bolt’s capabilities, a 120 mile LEAF 2 would spell doom for their sales. I would have thought a ‘200 mile’ LEAF 2 (Vs the ‘110 mile’ original) would be almost a certainty and definitely a requirement to maintain their position in the market.

                And lets not forget that all our cars do no more than 30 miles a day, on average…!

                1. Phr00t says:

                  The Bolt will be thousands more, though. Not everyone will need or want to pay for that extra range.

                  I do think Nissan is slipping in the EV market, though. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing when it is due to good competition.

      2. chano says:

        While you are it. read this article and then tell us why Nissan would be telling a lie that there would be a 200 miles + ev leaf coming in 2018?
        http://insideevs.com/watch-nissan-ceo-carlos-ghosn-live-presentation-tech-advancements-4pm-pst/

        1. Phr00t says:

          Yes, he does say “above 200 mile” range, but by what standard? They like to use the JC08 standard. However, when you convert those numbers to EPA standards, which is about a factor of 0.6, you get a statement of “above 120 miles”.

          1. Mark.ca says:

            I expect the leaf2 to have slightly over the range of the eGolf2, probably around 135….which will be a big disappointment to many.

            1. Phr00t says:

              Yup. Nissan’s fault too, with all the 60kWh, 200+ mile hype they generated early on.

              I predict 134 miles using some numbers from Nissan here:

              http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=23691

          2. chano says:

            why would Ghosn be talking about Japan estimate in USA? not making much sense and 400 KM is not 200 miles, which further make your claim that is japan cycle not making any sense.

            1. Phr00t says:

              It wasn’t Carlos that was quoted saying 200 miles, but Takao Asami. JC08 is likely the standard he was talking about.

              Where are you getting 400KM from?

              1. chano says:

                Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn said from the North American International Auto Show earlier this week that the next Leaf’s range may even exceed Nissan’s current 200-mile estimate.

                “We want to be competitive,” Ghosn said at a news conference of a “high output” version of the Leaf. “It may have even more range.”

                A new lithium-ion battery will be the source of this new 200-mile range. Nissan said it is developing a battery chemistry that offers an increase in power without adding to the battery’s volume, weight or cost. The next-generation Leaf, complete with this new battery, may likely be released by 2017. The current Leaf model uses a 24 kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery and has a range of 84 miles.
                http://www.hybridcars.com/ghosn-next-generation-leaf-to-feature-200-plus-mile-range/
                NOw was that Ghosn or Asim speaking?

                1. Phr00t says:

                  That article is over 2 years old. I don’t doubt 200+ EPA miles & a 60kWh pack was their target back then. Recent articles, including this one, point to them missing that target — at least for Leaf 2.0’s initial offering. They may still get a 60kWh pack into this new design, but I don’t expect it anytime soon or for a very competitive price.

              2. chano says:

                I am get that 400 km from that graph you present, and you are still wrong.
                http://www.hybridcars.com/ghosn-next-generation-leaf-to-feature-200-plus-mile-range/
                As the article point out Ghosn quote two different range one which is an estimate of 200 miles for USA, and 250 Miles for Japan.He made it very clear by quoting two different range which clearly show the 250 miles is the JC08 mode and the 200 miles is the EPA.

                1. Phr00t says:

                  A JC08 rating of 250 miles does not translate to a 200 mile EPA rating. Take for example the 2015 30kWh Nissan leaf, which got a 280km JC08 rating. That would be 174 miles. What did it get for an EPA rating? 107 miles. A 250 mile JC08 rating would translate to an EPA 150 miles, not 200.

                  1. chano says:

                    that not how things work, you have no calculator to show what the range is, and you are assuming, furthermore based on the Japan JC08 is close to the NEDC cycle, taking the renault ZOE 250 miles ratings, in really world the car get 186 miles. This show how far off your calculator is.

                  2. chano says:

                    first of all you basing your theory on a old heavier car (maybe less aero also) and old battery chemistry, the nissan range was 250 KM based on the NEDC cycle also, which is similar to the JC08, now if we take the new ZOE with 41 KWH, which is based on the NEDC cycle of 250 miles which is 400 KM, the ZOE real world range is 186 miles or 300 KM. By your calculator Now you are assuming the ZOE which have the same JC08 rating of 400 Km or 250 miles is 150 miles range. Now are you tell us the zoe real world miles or range is 150 based on your calculator and not 186? now even if you use the ePA 107 miles for this 30 kWH gen battery range and nissan double that to 60 KWH that is 214 miles, your miles end up being short.

                  3. chano says:

                    ‘A 250 mile JC08 rating would translate to an EPA 150 miles, not 200.’ furthermore your maths is wrong, the leaf 107 miles EPA was 155 miles on the JC08 mode, if we find the difference, if we divide 107 by 155 and the diffrence is 0.69 and multiply 0.69 by 250 miles we get 172 miles. That would be around 172 miles EPA, which show you are shorting the range.

          3. MaartenV-nl says:

            Carlos Ghosn always talks EPA or “usable” miles.
            And the Nissan engineers are not so incompetent that they can’t get 200 miles from a 60kWh battery.

            1. Phr00t says:

              It wasn’t Carlos that said 200 miles, but Takao Asami. The JC08 standard is likely what he was talking about.

              The 60kWh battery was an early prototype shown years ago & there hasn’t been any confirmation it is in the Leaf 2.0.

      3. Dr. Miguelito Loveless says:

        Wow. If the Leaf 2.0 comes in at under 150, it is dead on arrival. The only possible thing that could save them would be a MASSIVE price cut, say $25K before tax credits.

        1. Bacardi says:

          Except the current Leaf 1.0/1.5, with much less range than the Bolt EV outsold the Bolt EV…While the Bolt EV isn’t fully rolled out, half are sold in Cali and the overwhelming majority of sales are to the CARB states which it’s almost fully rolled out…

          1. theflew says:

            Leaf sold in 50 states, Bolt sold in 7 states. Big difference and the number of Leafs sold we’re not that much than the BOLT given the much wider distribution.

          2. Someone out there says:

            That’s because Nissan offers HUGE discounts for the old LEAF right now.

        2. Phr00t says:

          The Ioniq EV is $29,5000 @ 124 miles today. A Nissan Leaf, at around $30k @ ~135 miles will be about where the market is 6+ months later. If you need more range & are willing to spend thousands more, you can get a Bolt or Model 3.

          1. R.S says:

            With this being Nissans second generation of an existing car, I expect them to be a better value than Hyundai.

            The Ioniq is a good EV, for a first try, but Nissan should still have an advantage over Hyundai, when it comes to EVs. If the second gen Leaf is only a bit better than the Ioniq, then the first gen was a biiiiiiiigggg waste of money.

            1. Phr00t says:

              The Ioniq EV includes heated seats & fast charging on their base model. They also include active cooling of the battery (although not liquid). These are things I don’t expect the Leaf 2.0 to provide, if they are going to roughly match their current feature & price model. Hyundai also generally has better warranties… it will be tough for the Leaf 2.0 to be a better value at the ranges I’m expecting (considering the additional wait for it).

              1. R.S says:

                But you agree that it should be a better value, than the Kia. I don’t want to say that it will be, but that it should be.

                Nissan already has a platform that they can build on and tons of experience, when it comes to EVs. So if they aren’t better than Kia, when it comes to EVs, they will have done something wrong.

                1. Phr00t says:

                  I hope it will be, because I want to see better & better EVs being released. The value does need to keep getting better. It really comes down to what price & feature set they shoot for. I have a strong suspicion expectations are set too high, though.

              2. MaartenV-nl says:

                But the ranges you expect are so unrealistic small for a 60kWh battery.

                1. Phr00t says:

                  Yes, if a 60kWh was the confirmed battery for the Leaf 2.0 — which is isn’t. The 60kWh battery was a prototype shown years ago. Nissan is shooting for that size (and better), but recently has said Nissan can do “200 miles. 300 miles. The question is cost”. Nissan doesn’t see the 60kWh being an economical choice for their Leaf lineup yet. That is also why they are projecting ~200+ EPA miles (550km JC08) not until 2020 according to this article.

            2. DHENLEY says:

              The Leaf was a good first design; but, Nissan management never capitalized on their lead in EV. They waited for the others to catch up and now they are grossly behind. Glad I didn’t buy their stock.

              1. R.S says:

                Well, it is kind of hard to tell. The first gen definitely was a financial flop, they constantly had a massive overcapacity, Nissan could build 300k Leafs, if they would find enough people to buy one.

                But they already have a working platform they can improve upon, which will make design cheaper and therefore the cars sold. And partly payed off tooling they can use to, again, make the next gen cheaper.

                So Nissan needs this next generation Leaf to be a success and sell in ICE rivaling numbers, otherwise the first gen really just was a waste of money.

              2. MaartenV-nl says:

                They found out the hard way that their battery needed to be three times the size they used for preferably less money.

                That forced them to wait until the battery prices dropped >70% from what they paid for their initial battery.

      4. Someone out there says:

        They can’t release a 140 mile car for 2018, that would just be embarrassing. I hope that is an old projection you have found. If the new LEAF is only 140 miles they might as well not bother, not after the Chevy Bolt and the Tesla 3. Unless they intent to sell it at rock-bottom price I guess.

        1. Phr00t says:

          That projection is the source of this very article, so it is very new.

  2. Ziv says:

    Well if the Leaf 3.0 will only go 250 US EPA miles in 2020, the Leaf 2.0 is going to be less than exciting later this year. I hope it gets to 200 miles of hwy AER, but I won’t hold my breath. The Ioniq is crippled by a relatively modest AER as well.
    For the next 2 years it looks like the two main players (sub-$50k) will be the III and the Bolt. Pity that GM didn’t build a more attractive BEV. The Bolt has the utility factor but not the WOW factor!

    1. R.S says:

      I don’t think this will be the Leaf 3.0. The Leaf 2.0 will come this year, so 2020 will be the Leaf 2.5, like the 107 mile Leaf was 1.5.

      So the increase in capacity won’t be as drastic from 2.0 to 2.5, as from 1.5 to 2.0. If the 2.5 has more than 250 miles of range, Hiroto Saikawa said 300 miles usable, then the 2.0 might have over 200 miles of range, too.

      1. Ziv says:

        I think you may be right about the Leaf version that arrives in 2020 with 250 miles of AER being the Leaf 2.5 rather than the Leaf 3.0 as I said earlier. If Nissan took nearly 7 years to start production of the Leaf 2.0, it is doubtful that they will be progressing quickly enough to get the 3.0 out in just 3 years.
        Your point is well taken.

        1. R.S says:

          It will definitely be more of a mid-cycle refresh. 7 years is quite common in the auto industry, with one slight revision in between. Usually a slight drivetrain and cosmetic enhancement.

          The Volt is the only plug in on it’s second generation, right now. Tesla had one (and a halve) spread out mid cycle refresh for the S, the Leaf had a very minor one, with just it’s battery capacity increasing, the i3 had minor one and will get a bigger one this year and the eGolf will get it’s refresh soon.

          The Leaf 2.0 will be the first pure EV that moves to a second generation. So at least my expectations are rather high. I do hope Nissan doesn’t disappoint.

          1. Alan says:

            I was under the impression that the Nissan Leaf power one cycle ended on the 31st March or 30th April ? Can’t remember which.

            They are now overdue for Leaf 2.0 so not expecting another refresh of any kind but a whole new car.

            1. Ziv says:

              Alan, I think he was responding to my previous statement that the Leaf 3.0 would come out in 2020.
              When R.S. said ” It will definitely be more of a mid-cycle refresh. ” I am pretty sure he was referring to the 2020 Leaf that I had incorrectly stated might be the Leaf 3.0.
              He can speak for himself but since it was my error that led to his correction I figured I would pipe in with my 2 cents! 😉

            2. R.S says:

              Yea like Ziv said, I was talking about 2020. The one this year will definitely be the second generation.

            3. kubel says:

              The spy shots do not show an all-new car. I don’t think we should expect anything more than a facelift for 2018.

              1. Brandon says:

                The prototype LEAF’s that are having spy pictures taken of them are just that: prototypes.

                The final design will most likely definitely resemble the prototype tho.

    2. chano says:

      In correct translation lead to incorrect information.There seem to be some mix up, the leaf 2.0 is the one with 250 miles, the one coming in 2020 is 300 miles.

      1. Dr. Miguelito Loveless says:

        But 250 miles based on Japanese standards translates to about 150 miles EPA mileage. This would not be received well in the market with the Bolt and M3 already at 200+ miles.

        1. chano says:

          mr Ghosn said 200 miles at the CES , in uSA why would Mr GHosn quoting japan miles in USA? when Ghosn said 100 miles in 2010 it was not Japan cycle, so why would he would be using one in US? further more Automotivenews “Saikawa says that before 2020, Nissan will be able to reach a range of about 300 miles on a single battery charge. That will make Nissan EVs competitive with traditional vehicles in the U.S., he said.

          “Good enough,” he said of a 300-mile range. “It’s a usable range, 300 miles. I believe that the technology will lead us to go there.”

          1. Phr00t says:

            Ghosn did not say 200 miles, it was Takao Asami.

            Source:
            http://insideevs.com/watch-nissan-ceo-carlos-ghosn-live-presentation-tech-advancements-4pm-pst/

            The 300 miles “usable” range is talking about a vehicle “before 2020”, almost guaranteed not the Leaf 2.0.

            http://www.autonews.com/article/20170410000100/OEM02/304109954

  3. randomhuman says:

    I hope they release the new Leaf with more than 200 miles of range measured by the EPA and not by some unrealistic figure. I don’t really know much about the Jc08 test cycle but if it is unrealistic it could be a bummer if they only achieve this range in the Japanese test cycle.

  4. David Murray says:

    PHEVs won’t be obsolete for some time. Charging infrastructure in most parts of the USA is growing at a snail’s pace and won’t be ready for full-on EV adoption by the general population for 10 to 20 years at least.

    1. Brandon says:

      It’ll definitely take time for comprehensive HPFC coverage, but by 2020 I do believe there will actually be quite decent 150 kW fast charge infrastructure coverage here in the U.S.

      1. Bill Howland says:

        Progress always happens slower than people think.

        Seeing as there are no cars and only a few chargers that will go this fast (and I’m still waiting to see precisely what the cost to the consumer will be), to have NATIONWIDE penetration of 150 kw chargers (or faster) in 3 years seems greatly optimistic.

        I remember all the statements made 9 years ago when the ROADSTER was released about how quickly EV’s would technologically progress……

        As it is, the nine year old Roadster still is highly advanced, compared to the average battery size and motor power of say, the typical Nissan Leaf sold today 9 years later.

        The leaf always has been somewhat more efficient, but on things that I value, such as driving range, the Leaf really really is lacking.

        And nothing definite in either the near, medium or long term from this company. Just vague promises – same as VW.

        Meanwhile, GM surprised almost everyone (including most here) by bringing out a standard, lowered cost, extremely practical, reliable, serviceable, crossover, which in only a few months will be readily available nationwide..

    2. MaartenV-nl says:

      PHEVs had their place when dual drivetrains did cost less than an adequate battery.
      After 2020 their is no economic business case for PHEV anymore.

      They will be sold in some areas for different reasons for a number of years. But it will be a declining niche market.

      1. ModernMarvelFan says:

        “After 2020 their is no economic business case for PHEV anymore.”

        So, you are saying that after 2020, there will be SUPER DCFC station on every hwy exit between major cities that will recharge the car with more than 200 miles of range every 20 minutes and every destination will have overnight chargers for everyone…

        Okay, if that is true, then your point is dead on. But if that isn’t true, then your point is just another “purist” view.

    3. jheartney says:

      “Charging infrastructure in most parts of the USA is growing at a snail’s pace and won’t be ready for full-on EV adoption by the general population for 10 to 20 years at least.”

      I think this is basically correct, though I don’t know how long it’ll take for the fast charge network to be adequate. It probably depends on someone (either government or a Musk-like individual) taking responsibility to make it happen. As it stands, electricity billing customs make fast charge stations unprofitable, so there’s no big push to build them, particularly in the rural areas where they are most needed to enable long-distance travel. Yet without these stations, even 250 mile EVs won’t be able to cross much of the country reliably.

      1. Terawatt says:

        Didn’t you guys get the memo? VW is singlehandedly, albeit by force, making huge investments in 150 kW to 320 kW chargers. This alone will greatly improve public charging networks, and there’s a dozen other initiatives going on. Tesla’s superchargers and destination chargers is already quite useable and will be twice as dense in a year or less.

        PHEVs are already more like fossils than like EVs, and this is true also for how futuristic they are…

        From an engineering point of view the PHEVs never looked good. A series-type hybrid like the Volt isn’t as bad as the parallel-hybrids that are far more common, but both are inelegant workarounds for a problem that’s rapidly disappearing – too expensive batteries.

      2. Dr. Miguelito Loveless says:

        10-20 years is also the time that it will take for the current new ICE cars to reach the end of their lifespan.

        As each year goes by, the number of EVs on the road will increase, along with the number of FCs. At some point, someone is going to cut a deal with Tesla to join their network, then things will move quickly.

        1. Brandon says:

          I really don’t believe that some automakers getting access to the Supercharger network will make a dramatic difference. In just 4-5 years there will be between 600-1000 HPFC locations in the U.S. I’m talking multi stall 150 kW ChargePoint Express Plus fast charger style setups.

          1. Brandon says:

            I should say LIKELY there will be that many. Actually I would say probably 600-800 by 2022 is what we will see. That’s going to be nationwide coverage if not very close.

    4. Shane says:

      How long does it take to have an electrician install a dryer outlet?

      1. Brandon says:

        Much shorter than the time I’m sure it takes to get try and have a Level 2 charger (let alone an outlet) installed for an apartment or condo dweller.

        ~60% of households in the U.S. don’t have access to a plug where they park their car, so that will be the biggest challenge for EV adoption in the long term.

        But once there’s good HPFC (150-350 kW) fast charge infrastructure coverage in the U.S. in 4-5 years from now, it’ll make possible owning a long range EV as an only car for quite a decent percentage of the people in the U.S.

        I do think by 2022 there will be good coverage.

  5. Chris O says:

    I agree with the sentiment that a tentative goal of a relatively modest 250 Miles EPA in 2020 doesn’t bode well for Leaf 2.0. If that car is sub 200 miles the price had better reflect it…

    We’ll see.

    1. Brandon says:

      I don’t know why so many here don’t expect that the LEAF 2 will be 200+ miles. Its been confirmed by Nissan!!!

    2. chano says:

      the 250 is for 2.0, the 300 miles is a upgrade for 2020, the new ceo made it very clear.

      1. DJ says:

        The thing though is that 300+ is on the JC08 cycle right? So that’s like 250 real world. I’m still hoping for the Leaf 2 to have an option at least for 200 miles this Fall. If they want to offer a lower range variant I’m all for it as not everyone needs/wants that much range given the cost but hope they can offer a higher one as well otherwise a long standing leader in EV sales may be in for a rough road.

        1. MaartenV-nl says:

          Nissan is always talking EPA, unless otherwise specified for a special market. In those cases they correct the Japanese JC08 or European NEDC number with a “useable” number that is close to the EPA number.

          Believe it or not, but Nissan is saying 250 EPA miles for their MY2018 refresh and 340 EPA miles for their 2020 Leaf on the new shared (Renault-Nissan) platform.

          1. Brandon says:

            Yes, I agree you are corect on all points there except that the 2020 EV isn’t a LEAF they are talking about, but a new model.

  6. Someone out there says:

    Yes, everyone in the business is aiming at more than 500 km by 2020. That is when we will see EVs really take off.
    Because of that charging networks will start to make financial sense so we should expect to see a rapid growth of 150kW chargers

    1. Brandon says:

      A few locations in metro areas may be financially viable by 2020, but it’ll still be mid 2020s til a decent amount of fast chargers are making a profit IMO.

  7. Ct200h says:

    2018 Leaf coming this fall/winter 2018 will likely have 2 variants , a lower cost 30kwh and a higher spec of somewhere around 40 to 48 kWh but not more .
    That will provide 135 to 150 EPA miles .

    Those wishing for 200 plus will have to wait or look elsewhere
    From what I have gathered .

    1. BenG says:

      More likely to be 40 and 60 kwh variants available. Nissan has long promised that the Gen 2 Leaf will offer at least 200 mile range.

      1. CLIVE says:

        Correct.

    2. Doggydogworld says:

      48 kWh in a smaller, lighter and more aerodynamic package than the Bolt could achieve 200 EPA.

    3. MaartenV-nl says:

      Why don’t you believe the CEO when he says it will be 60kWh?

      He has always be honest before.

    4. chano says:

      40 KWH does not translate to 150 miles. More like 172.

  8. MaartenV-nl says:

    Nissan has announced a number of times that it will introduce a new Leaf with a >60kWh battery in september 2017. Why speculate what the range or the battery capacity will be?

    Just promise Nissan that it will have hell to pay if they do not keep that promise.

    This announcement sounds like a 80kWh in 2020. I think that is plausible.

    1. Brandon says:

      If this announcement is meaning 250 miles EPA range, then it’s not a lot more than the LEAF 2 will be.

      1. chano says:

        if Ghosn said leaf 2.0 was 200+ miles coming in 2018 and the new CEO said the new leaf was 300 miles by 2020, don’t you see clearly the article is wrong?

        1. Phr00t says:

          Ghosn did not say 200 miles, Takao Asami did — and was likely using the JC08 standard.

          The 300 mile figure is for around 2020, where we are no longer talking about the Leaf 2.0.

      2. MaartenV-nl says:

        This announcement is 342 EPA miles in 2020.

    2. chano says:

      No the new CEO confirm the 300 miles on autonews question and answer, but the 250 in 2020 is wrong, it coming in the new model in 2018, Ghosn already confirm.

  9. F150 Brian says:

    So if it has ~250 miles range in the real world, then this shows that Nissan is super lame. Bolt was there last year in the same size package.

    No news here folks, move on…

    1. chano says:

      That if the article was correct but it is not, Ghosn clear said the new leaf would get 200+ miles at CES or maybe you forget, and the new CEO said clearly by 2020 the leaf would get 300 miles based on the EPA cycle, clear the translation is wrong.

  10. Alexander H. says:

    I, for one, will be perfectly content with an AER of ~150 real world miles from the Leaf 2.0, as long as the cold weather hit isn’t too great.

    Keep the exterior dimensions tidy, but have room inside for two adults and two car seats + one booster in the back, along with a decent size hatch.

    With those specs, I’d gladly deal with frumpy looks, somewhat pokey highway performance, and somewhat limited (though still about 2x my current Leaf’s) range.

    With the Northeast Corridor getting some charging upgrades, it would make travel between Boston & Philadelphia manageable, if not exactly speedy. Bigger issue is still getting to Syracuse, NY from Boston in anything other than a Tesla: West of Albany, I-90 is a wasteland, from what I can see…

    1. Brandon says:

      Yes, I agree that 150 miles range would work for a lot of people as their second car.

      Btw, Electrify America is planning 5-9 HPFC locations on I-90. They should be completed in 2020 sometime.

      1. Alexander H. says:

        Good to know; however, I can’t find confirmation for your info. Do you have a link? I’d be very interested in seeing where they have these planned.

        2020 is a long way off: I may have two Model 3’s at that point (2 reserved, haven’t decided whether to keep my reservations), and there may be several good options that can all make a 175 mile trip (Albany to Syracuse), in the winter, without needing to stop en-route. Still, I’m glad the gaps are, at least, planned to be filled!

        1. Brandon says:

          Yes, here’s the national plan document:

          https://www.electrifyamerica.com/downloads/get/38726

          The list of Interstates is on page 22.

  11. DCP123 says:

    If it looks like that IDS Concept, I have an ad slogan for them.

    “The New Nissan Leaf: Because being able to see out of the back of your car is for losers.”

    I hate the high belt lines being put on sedans and coupes these days.

    1. Alan says:

      Rear view cameras ?

  12. iwatson says:

    I’m not sure if the 2018 Leaf is Leaf 2.0. From the disguised pictures it looks too much like the current model. Maybe the 2018 is a restyled refresh and 2.0 comes in 2020 with larger battery. Press articles keep saying we have a bigger battery coming in 2020 but they are quite mum about 2018.

    1. BenG says:

      No, the Leaf 2.0 is definitely due this fall. But I think you are right that its look may be more derivative of Leaf 1.0 than some had hoped.

      They haven’t been mum about a bigger battery for 2018. They’ve been promising 200+ mile range for the upcoming second gen Leaf for quite a while.

    2. Terawatt says:

      It’s a silly thing to argue over, because 2.0 doesn’t actually mean any concrete thing. Whether it is or isn’t, then, is just a matter of opinion (even after the facts are out).

      What’s pretty sure is it’s not simply minor changes to bodywork and a denser pack. Nissan will attempt to shield itself from criticism that existing LEAFs can’t be upgraded, and therefore the new pack won’t match the dimensions of today’s.

      I reckon it’ll be a pretty significantly new product that to my mind is a second generation. It kinda needs to be, since the current car is from 2010.

    3. chano says:

      clear the issue is the translation, as it was not done properly, Ghosn at CES said clear 200+ miles, again the proto was shown with 500 KM which is around 250 miles, recently the new ceo said by 2020 it would be 300 miles for USA market

    4. Someone out there says:

      Why would the next generation be radically different than the previous gen? If they wanted to do a radically different car they would call it something else!
      What’s the difference between gen1 and gen2 Volt? Not very much, that is how it goes.

  13. Alan says:

    A 60 kWh would be very nice, especially as I would like to use a V2H system which I gather will be available in Europe later this year.

  14. EVA-01 says:

    This project is most likely the new EV platform that Renault Nissan Alliance is building for 2020 vehicle release.

    The 2nd gen Nissan Leaf will definitely not be “all new”. I’d call it a mid cycle refresh. It will be riding the same platform as the 1st gen Leaf. All it will be is a 1st gen Leaf with a bigger battery.

  15. Phr00t says:

    Everyone here needs to look at this chart, which got the 550km number for this article:

    http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/atcl/mag/15/397260/040300156/?SS=imgview&FD=-483439470

    Notice the 350-400km number for the upcoming Leaf 2.0. Converting that to EPA miles, gives you roughly 139.8 miles.

    People are grossly overestimating Leaf 2.0’s projected range. It won’t be 200+, likely well below 150 miles.

    1. chano says:

      You are wrong, nissan former CEO Ghosn said 200 miles + and post 550 KM range based on Japan cycle which calculate to be around 250 EPA, last month nissan new CEO said that by 2020 there would be a real world 300 mile leaf based on usa cycle, for USA market.That very clear.

      1. Jay Cole says:

        It does say that on the chart, and in the article, but that number isnt via Nissan, it is estimated by Techon.

        Not saying it is right or wrong, but we get a lot of random/odd reports on this sort of thing out of Japan.

      2. Phr00t says:

        The 550km range based on the JC08 cycle is shown for the year 2020 according to this recent chart, much past the upcoming Leaf 2.0.

        The only recent quote I’ve found talking about 200+ miles for Leaf 2.0 says “We can do 200. 300. The question is cost.”, which points to a 200+ mile Leaf 2.0 isn’t economically feasible yet.

        Source @ http://www.automobilemag.com/news/new-nissan-leaf-debuts-september-arrives-years-end/

        May you please source your claims?

        1. chano says:

          Saikawa says that before 2020, Nissan will be able to reach a range of about 300 miles on a single battery charge. That will make Nissan EVs competitive with traditional vehicles in the U.S., he said.

          “Good enough,” he said of a 300-mile range. “It’s a usable range, 300 miles. I believe that the technology will lead us to go there.”
          http://www.autonews.com/article/20170410000100/OEM02/304109954?
          clearly he said bfore 2020, an dthe second thing he said 300 useful miles for US. clearly it could not be joc8 mode as he is saying uS.

          1. Phr00t says:

            The 300 mile figure is for another vehicle “before 2020” — we are no longer talking about the Leaf 2.0.

            1. chano says:

              Now the former CEO Ghosn said 200 miles for USA and 250 miles for Japan market.
              http://www.hybridcars.com/ghosn-next-generation-leaf-to-feature-200-plus-mile-range/

              1. Phr00t says:

                Read my reply above. To summarize, that article is over 2 years old & is based on projections and prototypes. Recent news points to them missing the mark — at least with initial offerings of the Leaf 2.0. A 200+ EPA rated Leaf may still be coming, I just do not have my hopes it will be anytime soon.

                1. chano says:

                  your article is shown nothing, more than an estimate of 300 to 400 KM, which you have not proving anything, the ZOE is 400 km or 250 miles on the JC08 or NEDC and the range is 186 miles real world.If the leaf comes with the same 41 KWH battery as the ZOE that could not be 150 or 135 miles as you are quoting. So you still off.

                2. chano says:

                  your article is also base on projection, if you are not aware, but anyway, you still wrong, 107 miles divide by 155 is 0.69, multiply that by 250 miles based on the JC08, that is 172 miles EPA.

        2. Djoni says:

          It might be a choice of battery pack.
          That would answer the price point.
          One base model of 135 EPA miles and an optional model with a bigger battery for that 200+ EPA.
          Bingo!

    2. David S. says:

      I lowered my expectations for the 2018 LEAF. I now think it will only be a refresh with a 40 kWh option, both things we hoped to see many months ago. It seems the true next-gen LEAF with 60 kWh battery is the one planned for 2020.

  16. TS2000 says:

    Well, they don’t even publish what they will do for this year’s new Leaf, so saying what they will do with 2020 is completely BS in my opinion.

    1. MaartenV-nl says:

      Publishing is sooo yesteryear.
      They hold presentations at tradeshows in front of a just few hundred journalists to make sure it will stay a secret.

      And afterwards they give interviews. They delegate those activities to nobodies like their CEO and head of development.

      Not as trustworthy as SeekingAlpha and all other conspiracy theorists that explain the truth to you in these comments.

  17. Mikey says:

    I’m glad that they are already talking about 300+ mile range cars. While we’re all very happy that 200+ mile range cars became a reality with the Bolt (and the more expensive Model S), it’s important to keep improving the range.

    More range means less need for public charging and also means that time spent charging matters less. To put another way, if you have a 300 mile round trip to take, if you can do that in a single charge, it doesn’t matter if there isn’t a charging station on your route, and it doesn’t matter if it takes 2 hours to fully charge.

    The higher the range, the more it negates both of the primary drawbacks of EVs.

  18. Toyotomi says:

    My guess for coming Leaf 2.0 2017 is 40kWh usable battery and around 175 miles EPA range, at the same price as current 30kWh model. Of cause it comes with 150kW CHAdeMO capability.

    Having 50-ish miles less range than BOLT/Model 3, but about $5000 cheaper.

    1. speculawyer says:

      That battery size sounds good but I seriously doubt 150 KW ability.

    2. MaartenV-nl says:

      Why guess when the CEO has revealed the battery size as 60kWh?

  19. speculawyer says:

    Did they just Osborne Effect the 2018 LEAF before announcing it? Kinda stupid.

  20. Jason says:

    Pity none of these companies have taken notice of how Tesla does things. Who cares about 2020? Everyone blasts VW for all their 2020 pipe dreams. Tesla is teasing some ideas about the Model Y, but really it is all about what is happening now, the Model 3. Nissan needs to smarten up, tell us what the next Leaf will really be like. The impact on current sales will be negligible, just take a look at Bolt sales which haven’t really done anything like what was expected.

    One thing is sure, after the hype of Leaf 2.0, if it doesn’t have a 60kWh battery option or EPA range option of at least 200mi, then it is going to be very negative for Nissan. If Model 3 captures the imagination and Leaf 2.0 comes out later with less range, it will be very interesting.

    Current Leaf sales point to the fact more main stream people are interested in getting an EV, so once they realise they want more range then Nissan needs to have a product to provide that, or be prepared so customers looking else where.

    1. JeremyK says:

      What is going to keep Nissan in the game is price. Even if they don’t reach 200 EPA miles of range with Gen 2.0, they will probably be the low-cost leader over both the Bolt and the M3, which means they will touch a certain segment of the market that neither Tesla or GM can.

  21. TP says:

    Show of hands, how many Leaf lease holders have received an extension offer to keep them in their Leaf until the new model is out? I have done so, and agreed to the extension.

    1. MikEV says:

      I was given that offer as well, prior to turning in my ’14 SL a few weeks ago. I had already purchased my back-up plan 2013 SV for $6500 after Colorado tax credit in December, so turned my ’14 SL back in on schedule. Now I can patiently watch and wait.

  22. Chad says:

    2018 leaf will have 285 mile range

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