Nissan IDS Concept: “The Future Nissan LEAF In Drag”, 60 kWh NMC Battery Inside

2 years ago by Jay Cole 97

Nissan president and CEO Carlos Ghosn presenting IDS Concept

Nissan president and CEO Carlos Ghosn presenting IDS Concept

Ahead of the Nissan IDS Concept‘s debuted this past Wednesday (IDS details, photos/video here), a small group of journalists were admitted to Nissan’s Advanced Technology Center in Atsugi, Japan to learn in great detail about the concept car, and the future of the tech.

Select Journalists Go Behind The Scenes Ahead Of The IDS Concept's Debut Last Friday

Select Journalists Go Behind The Scenes Ahead Of The IDS Concept’s Debut Last Friday (photo courtesy of Daily Kanban/Bertel Schmitt)

Bertel Schmitt, who co-founded the Daily Kanban (a must read for an insider’s view of the automotive industry), and who also happens to be a local in the area was invited as part of this group and says:

“Of course, nobody in his right mind allows journalists into a high-security tech center for a day, just to show off a silly concept car, and it quickly became clear that what we saw was the future Nissan LEAF in drag. It is a fair guess that large parts of the IDS Concept will be seen again when the 2nd generation Leaf arrives”

After attending Mr. Schmitt came away with several logical conclusion and some insight into the next generation LEAF.

New 60 kWh Battry Found In IDS Concept Fits Snugly Into Almost The Same Space As Current 30 kWh Version (new pack is slightly taller) - photo courtesy of Daily Kanban

New 60 kWh Battry Found In IDS Concept Fits Snugly Into Almost The Same Space As Current 30 kWh Version.  The new pack is slightly taller

New high Density NMC Stack From 60 kWh Battery Pack (photo courtesy of Daily Kanban)

New high Density NMC Stack From 60 kWh Battery Pack

Most notable was a look at the 60 kWh battery inside the IDS Concept, which perhaps not surprisingly, fits near exactly into the same package (length/width anyway) as today’s 30 kWh Nissan LEAF battery pack – surely not a measure Nissan would go to in order to make a simple concept.

As expected, the battery chemistry itself is the long-anticipated NMC (Nickel-Mangan-Cobalt) chemistry on the cathode side, with a graphite anode. The new 60 kWh battery is comprised of 288 cells.

While some of the slides shown at the presentation looked to feature what the new 2016 Nissan LEAF can do (280 km on the JC08 standard in Japan/107 miles on the US EPA), the charts also demonstrated that “the future” could do in excess of 500 km/310 miles (again JC08), which would mean at least 200 miles or more of real world/EPA driving.

Nissan LEAF Range Chart Snapped By Mr. Schmitt

Nissan LEAF Range Chart Snapped By Mr. Schmitt

Much like the capacity (and a revised chemistry) in the new 30 kWh battery (2016 LEAF)  over the existing 24 kWh pack, jumping to a 60 kWh battery with new NMC tech allows for even greater recharging times.

It appears “the future” (aka next gen LEAF) will accept CHAdeMO charging at 100 kW, which will enable adding 100km/62 miles (JC08) of additional range in about 7 mins of charge time.

Nissan Slide Illustrating "Future" EV Charge Times (photo courtesy of Daily Kanban)

Nissan Slide Illustrating “Future” EV Charge Times (photo courtesy of Daily Kanban)

LG Chem Looks To Be A Supplier For The Next Generation LEAF

LG Chem Looks To Be A Supplier For The Next Generation LEAF

As for the supplier of the battery, no one at the event was telling.  However, as they say – loose lips can sink ships:

Mr. Schmitt explains, “While I was working the Renault/Nissan Alliance dinner on Tueday night, a leading Alliance engineer told me that the battery will be built “by us and LG Chem.” Then, two alarmed handlers stopped the discussion.”

This would indicate that the tie-up between LG Chem and Nissan has been finalized, and as expected both company’s will be producing the same battery for the LEAF.

Our own suspicions since word of a joint battery agreement between the two companies surfaced, has been that LG Chem will fill production needs for Nissan outside of the United States and Japan for the next generation, long range LEAF.

Other bits of knowledge gleaned:

Nissan LEAF Autonomous Drive Demo (click to enlarge)

Nissan LEAF Autonomous Drive Demo (click to enlarge)

*- the IDS Concept (and therefore the 2nd gen Leaf) has a lot of autonomous tech

*- truly autonomous operation on highways when the 2nd gen LEAF arrives by 2018

*- full autonomous drive, hands-fee operation (including city traffic) is expected by 2020

*- IDS Concept has 100 percent carbon fiber (CFRP) body, expect the next LEAF to “have at least a few significant elements made from CFRP, probably from the tub upwards, including the roof” 

Daily Kanban, Our thanks to Bertel Schmitt for the in-depth reporting!

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97 responses to "Nissan IDS Concept: “The Future Nissan LEAF In Drag”, 60 kWh NMC Battery Inside"

  1. DNAinaGoodWay says:

    Give me a 60 kWh eNV200 and I’ll stop leasing and buy.

    1. Jeff Songster says:

      Yes… a van with a great range would be fantastic… especially if it had some towing capacity also.

    2. Jeff D says:

      Yes, I like the eNV200. It would be nice if the 200 would represent the miles of range.

  2. GeorgeS says:

    So LG is moving into Smyrna battery plant.?…

    1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      It was quite interesting when Nissan said that going forward, batteries would be made for the next generation Leaf in their battery plant in Japan, and that the Smyrna (Tennessee) plant would continue to make batteries. Note they said nothing about the Sunderland (UK) plant.

      The logical conclusion is that Nissan is in the process of converting their Japanese and Tennessee plants make cells exactly like LG Chem’s new, cheaper ones; and that they’re going to discontinue production at the UK battery plant, in favor of buying some battery cells directly from LG Chem.

      Of course, just because that’s the logical conclusion doesn’t mean it’s correct. Perhaps it means nothing more than that they plan to buy some cells from LG on an interim basis; perhaps Nissan plans to re-start production at the Sunderland plant at a later date.

      1. Brian says:

        Going forward, we will be seeing more unit sales of EVs with larger batteries in each. The result is pressure from two dimensions for more cell production. The world will need orders of magnitude more production capacity for this to be successful. I don’t think we will see any shuttering of battery plants, just revamping/re-purposing for the new technology.

      2. This could just mean a staged rollout of new battery cells & chemistry. Upgrade one plant and optimize production, before replicating. Less risk involved as existing plants continue to produce.

        RE: LG, it is not clear that Nissan is purchasing completed cells, or just cell components.

        Nissan could just purchase/license cathode material and layer separators, but do actual cell assembly in-house. There have been few details of what a LG/Nissan relationship involves. There relationship could even have Nissan manufacturing LG cells under license for 3rd party use (speculation, but one business possibility).

    2. Jeff Songster says:

      Hopefully… hate to see those workers displaced. I would guess that Nissan would license the tech as they have a capable factory… that should be better for LG as they are likely going to be challenged to ramp up to all the contracts they seem to have all coming due in 2018 timeframe.

  3. sven says:

    Wow. Just wow. Time to buy some Nissan stock while it’s still cheap!

    1. Jeff Songster says:

      Did that some time ago…

    2. Mister G says:

      This is great news. GO NISSAN GO

  4. MTN Ranger says:

    This may also explain the mystery production line to be added to the LG Chem battery factory in MI from a previous article.

    1. GeorgeS says:

      I don’t see Nissan shutting down the Smyrna plant in Tennesee though. It’s a huge plant. Something tells me that 4th line at Holland will be for some other application.

      1. scottf200 says:

        Was there some stipulations on the loan for it to remain in use with X people for Y years … 2009 – Department of Energy has approved a $1.6 billion loan to Nissan North America that the auto maker will use to equip its Smyrna factory…

      2. finecadmin says:

        The domestic plants are used for lots of things. Part of the Japanese advantage is production lines that can be reconfigured between multiple models, versus idling when demand was misjudged as Big Three lines often do. If nothing else, having an overseas plant rides out tariffs and forex effects. Smyrna will make _something,_ even if we or even Nissan itself doesn’t know what that is right now.

  5. Vexar says:

    Suggestion that you change the subject headline to not say “in drag.” I conjured Carlos Ghosn in a shimmer cocktail dress and a blonde wig.

    1. Aaron says:

      I’ll be in my bunk.

    2. Jeff Songster says:

      Well… if Carlos Ghosn could sell more cars that way… he might just do it…

      Gave me a laugh… I was imagining a car with bug gems hanging from it’s mirrors or something…

      1. Jeff Songster says:

        or BIG gems… but bug gems would be cool too… gotta love typos…

    3. “Disguise” would be the word I would have used.

      Besides “drag” is bad for the efficiency of any car, especially EV’s. 😉

  6. EBE says:

    Maybe LG helps build the cells in the Smyrna plant along side Nissan employees.

    cant wait for Leaf 2.0 !

    1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      More likely, Nissan has licensed LG Chem’s tech and will convert the Smyrna plant to make the new cells themselves. (Well, technically it’s AESC who makes Nissan’s cells, but Nissan owns AESC in partnership with NEC.)

      Whether or not LG Chem will provide personnel to assist on-site with converting the plant, is an interesting question. Common sense suggests that some LG Chem employees and/or executives would at least be used as on-site consultants, and at least for an interim period.

  7. Brian says:

    The caption under the photo says that the new battery is slightly taller, but the text claims that it fits into “exactly the same size”. So which is it?

    1. Jay Cole says:

      Ok, near exactly, (= (will change). The width/length are the same, the height of the modules is slightly askew/higher.

      1. Brian says:

        Ok, that makes sense to me. Didn’t we see a prototype Leaf running around with something hanging out the bottom of the car? I assume it was this 60kWh pack.

        1. Jeff Songster says:

          Future so bright wew gotta wear shades…

          Looks to me like the new battery is a few modules higher than the old one… each being an inch or so tall… so probably 4 to 5 inches of added height. Slightly taller back seat bump with maybe a thinner padded seat above could absorb some of that and let the rest be absorbed by a taller frame? IN the proto they probably just lived with stiffer springs and letting it take some ground clearance. I’d love to test it for them in my current 2015… call me guys… really… 😉

          1. Brian says:

            The future is bright indeed. I cannot wait to see what comes in the next couple of years. I’m not due for a new car for another 5 years, but I’ll be saving up anyway. It will be hard to sit on a 7-year-old Leaf with a degraded 24kWh battery (currently just under 85%) when all these new cars come around!

  8. Robb Stark says:

    My guess is LG Chem supplies the parts for the battery cells and Nissan assembles them into battery cells.

  9. Pedro says:

    The second generation NMC cells from LG Chem have 65 Ah. This means 288 x 65 Ah x 3,7 V = 69,3 kWh

    So the 60 kWh capacity should be usable. 87 % usable capacity seems right.

    1. Knut Erik Ballestad says:

      Whoa, this just gets better and better!

      A fantastic-looking compact car with battery capacity that equals Tesla’s S70 – seems like my Leaf will be getting electric company in the garage in two year’s time!

  10. Pedro says:

    I don’t expect that Renault-Nissan will let the Bolt arrive in 2016 without competition. So they will probably introduce a 48 kWh battery for the current generation Leaf, this gives time for the second generation to be completed.

    The 48 kWh battery should also be in the entry level of the second generation Leaf.

  11. SparkEV says:

    Is this trend toward bigger battery EV a good thing? First is that you’ll be carrying all that extra weight, dropping your efficiency. When it comes to out of pocket money MPGe$, you could end up paying more than 15 MPG gas car. Even with solar, extra solar isn’t cheap.

    Second is how it’ll be 10 years down the line when one has to replace the battery. At $100/kWh, I don’t know if many will spend $7000 ($6000 battery, $1000 install). More stuff going to junkyard won’t be good. Meanwhile, average gas car is about 12 years old, most on their original engine.

    1. David_Cary says:

      Really. I mean really?!?!?

      There is this car called the Model S and while its efficiency is not as good as a Leaf, it still way cheaper than an ICE car to drive. And boy is it heavy….

      I 60 kwh battery has a much longer life than a 20 kwh battery

      1. SparkEV says:

        If you think ModelS is cheaper than ICE, what MPGe$ (out of pocket equivalent to gas car MPG) do you think you’re getting?

        At 105 MPGe, $2.60/gal gas, $0.19/kWh base electric rate, one would be paying same as gas car that gets 43 MPG. It’s better than most, but I wouldn’t call it way cheaper.

        That’s on base rate. For wider EV adoption, it’ll be for people without solar, and tier3 rate (~$200/mo electric bill) is about $0.33/kWh, which makes 105 MPGe car get equivalent to 25 MPG gas car.

        And if they use public charger like Blink for DCFC, they’d be paying equivalent to 13 MPG gas car.

        Those are as of now. If EV get heavier, it’ll get worse.

        1. Andrew says:

          That may be true where you live, but where I am, the spread is much much larger. Gas here is $1.25/L, or $4.74/USG. Electricity is $0.09/kWh in my location. I bet my situation is much closer to the rest of the world than the US where your gasoline is artificially cheap.

          My Leaf has been getting 125MPGe (from the wall) with mostly secondary highway driving, so 6.5km/kWh or 4m/kWh (car display). Therefore the equivalent for my location is that a gas car has to get 198mpg in order to compete on a cost basis… obviously that isn’t happening anytime (ever!)

          For a Prius (55mpg) to even compete with an EV in the cost environment here, with gas staying at $4.75/USG, electricity would have to increase to $0.33/kWh.

          A hundred extra kg in battery wouldn’t change that equation one way or the other. I carry that much extra weight all the time on weekends and can’t discern the difference in efficiency from the noise (e.g. difference in speed, wind, rain, temperature).

          1. Dave K. says:

            Been looking at this for some time, basically gas would have to be .75/gal to be competitive in most of the world. There are a few exceptions, like islands that rely on diesel generators for their power and hence have high rates. Even then EVs are just better, high torque low maintenance quiet. And you just can’t put solar on your roof and fill your gas tank can you?

        2. mr. M says:

          Sure there are cars out there that get 43 MPG. But name me a Audi A6, BMW 7, Mercedes S-Class that gets 43 MPG. Please, i’m waiting… 😉

    2. Brian S says:

      Three things, first the bigger the battery the less it cycles so it lasts longer. Already Nissan increased their battery warranty for the 30 kWh version.

      Second, the longer the battery lasts, and more range allows a bigger degradation before it is useless for automotive use. So a 5-10 year 1st generation Leaf battery is instead a 10-20 year 2nd generation battery.

      Third, the batteries are getting more efficient so each kWh weighs less.

      Add those together and the cost effectiveness of the larger batteries is clear. Now will there be a market for shorter range electric cars just to get a lighter battery? I am skeptical given current sales of the 80 mile range BEVs. I’m not buying another 80 mile Leaf. I need one longer range vehicle in the family.

      1. Jeff Songster says:

        Agree completely about the lighter, denser battery stats.

        I still think there will definitely be a market for small battery electrics if they can get the range above 100 miles… especially if they get dramatically cheaper in the next few years and batteries are upgradeable and refurbishable. They will always be useful as second cars and local cars for folks without long commutes… or suburbanites with mass transit to avoid parking in cities. Drive your small battery to the station and such.

        The used market post subsidies should level out in 2 or 3 years with the flood of off lease cars and the new prices should also come down. You can currently get an iMiev for under 15k loaded after subsidies. An awesome choice if all you do is short local trips everyday.

        1. SparkEV says:

          Those are all nice and fine, but how much will it cost? If it’s still gong to be $100/kWh, people will simply junk the EV when it dies after 8 years when comparable used cars are cheaper then battery cost.

          1. Andrew says:

            Staying in line with Jeff’s supposition, people could replace the 1st gen Spark, Leaf etc battery for < $2,000. I think many people would find that a bargain to get a new lease on life for a well loved EV that they intend to use as a commuter and don't need the range of a $6k battery.

            1. SparkEV says:

              People who own 10 year old cars are typically poor (or cheapskates). They aren’t likely to spend more money than comparable cost gas cars.

              1. mr. M says:

                Why do you insist that they want to buy a new battery? Who will want to buy a new battery if the orignial 60kWh after 10 years is still at 70-80% SOH. Your range will be 140-160 miles instead of 200. If you have less money, you will be slower at longer drives. Thats all, seems acceptable for me.

                1. Dave K. says:

                  You are so right, and EVs have so few moving parts the rest of the car will be very reliable. People often buy new cars because they are afraid their old one will break down.

    3. Seriously. Adding a little extra battery weight isn’t going to suddenly reduce your mileage to the point where you reach price parity with an ICE. Even if you pay for an expensive tariff, an EV is still going to be a good 2-3x cheaper than buying gasoline. You think a little extra gross weight is going to magically bridge this huge divide?

      Secondly, the used batteries don’t go to the junkyard. Seriously, someone called SparkEv should KNOW this already.

      Finally, do not foolishly assume that 10 years from now the replacement batteries will be fixed at $100/kWh. They could be far cheaper than that. Times change.

      1. SparkEV says:

        SparkEV 19kWh is 500lb, 50kWh is going to be far more, 1000+lb? 1200+lb? It’s not just “little bit”

        BEV are already on parity with gas car MPG when it comes to out of pocket cost. Look up your EV in my blog.

        http://sparkev.blogspot.com/2015/10/money-mpge-for-various-ev.html

        Used batteries may get reused (to a point), but not used EV if price is too high to replace the battery. They will go to junk yard. Even now, I can’t see many people replacing Leaf battery for $4000 (30kWh, $100/kWh + $1000 install) if it’s 10 years old. If you price used/rebuilt Prius batteries with some warranty (aka, some assurance not DOA or die after 1 year), you’d know what I mean.

        Battery raw material prices are around $100/kWh. You can assume something magical (or revolutionary) will happen, but 10 to 15 year project is that it will hit $100/kWh with exchange (>$125/kWh without core)

        Even with name like SparkEV, I don’t drink the coolaid without analyzing it.

        1. Djoni says:

          You seems to speculate that the weight is proportional of the capacity.
          But this is new battery tech.
          What I understand from the article is that the 60 kWh pack is about the same size as the 24 kWh.
          It’s probably just a fraction heavier while being close to three time more energy stored in it.
          So with the CFR that the intend to put into the body, it would probably not be a much heavier car at all.

          1. SparkEV says:

            Volumetric efficiency doesn’t necessarily mean weight efficiency. Althouth it will (hopefully) get better, it won’t be 2X better. 60kWh weighing same as 24kWh won’t happen unless it’s different type of battery.

            The main point I was trying to make, which seemed to have gone lost, is that bigger battery will cost more than comparable used car cost. This is true for even rebuilt battery of some reputation (ie, 2 yr warranty). Then will people pay to replace the battery or junk the EV and buy a used car?

            People who own 10 year old cars are typically poor (or cheapskaktes like me), and aren’t likely to fork over more money than used car to fix an existing car. Then bigger battery EV will likely end up junk yards more than gas cars: more waste!

            Best would be to keep the battery price down while increasing range. So far, no one’s doing that.

            1. Knut Erik Ballestad says:

              It *is* a different type of battery….

            2. mr. M says:

              You state: “Best would be to keep the battery price down while increasing range. So far, no one’s doing that.”

              But everyone is already doing exactly that.

    4. MTN Ranger says:

      Personally, I’m not buying a BEV until the range is a minimum 200 miles. I’m sure the other 99% of the buying public probably agrees.

    5. krona2k says:

      It’s called progress. If you think a 24kwh car is a drop in replacement for an ICE car, it’s not, and I say that as a happy LEAF owner for the last three years.

      Anyway the main reason the batteries are getting bigger capacity is because the energy density of the cells are increasing, so both weight and volume gain are reduced.

      1. SparkEV says:

        I don’t know if it can be called progress if most EV are junked after 10-12 years due to high battery replacement cost while gas cars continue to drive far longer (24 years?) with incremental repair cost. Currently, average car age is about 12 years, which if Gaussian would put half more than 12 years.

        Real progress would be to reduce (or keep same) battery cost while extending the range.

        1. Brian says:

          You don’t want the Average age, you want the Median age. According to wikipedia, the median age of cars in the US was 10.8 years in 2011.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_vehicles_in_the_United_States

          Still, that’s probably the high end of the usable lifespan of today’s BEVs on their original battery (~11 years). So the point being, we need it to be attractive enough to replace the battery once, maybe twice, in a car’s lifetime in order for BEVs to have a similar life to ICEVs.

          1. In 2000 avg age was ~8 years. The over 10 year age is partially due to the recent ~2008-2011 recession. Only ~5%-9% of vehicles get replaced each year and there are ~150 million in U.S.

          2. SparkEV says:

            I did a quick google, and it didn’t show median age. Thanks for finding the median.

            Cars are lasting longer. That means 1/2 the cars are over 10.8 years old, probably even older now. I doubt 1/2 the EV will be 10.8 years old when replacement battery will cost more than used cars of similar vintage. And that is my point. Even poor rebuilt battery will cost more than comparable gas car major repair, if not more than the used car itself.

            “So the point being, we need it to be attractive enough to replace the battery once, maybe twice, in a car’s lifetime in order for BEVs to have a similar life to ICEVs.”

            Thank you for being the rare few who do get my point.

    6. Jonathan says:

      A larger pack will have fewer full discharge cycles than a smaller one, which means that it will degrade much much slower than the first Gen Leaf. It will also likely have a temperature controlled battery and improved chemistry. My guess would be that you’d experience very minimal levels of degradation over the years, something like 5-7% loss over 100K miles and 6 years. With a pack that has a range of about 220 miles this would mean that you’d still have over 200 miles of usable range with degradation. With the decreasing cost of batteries during that time period, by the time you’d need a new pack, the replacement cost would be akin to a new engine in an ICE car today. let’s say the cost in 8 year is $150kwh, this would be about $9K for a new 60kwh pack. Perhaps the cost would be driven even less by the fact that even highly degraded packs would be usable for other purposes like backup batteries for solar systems in a house. My guess would be that these newer packs will probably give very usable range for nearly 200K miles of driving.

  12. Alex says:

    Ghosn is a shark, Renault-Nissan is a real leader in EVs.

    1. Jeff Songster says:

      Couldn’t agree more… Ghosn knows how to hold his cards close… and if they can beat Tesla and GM to market with the under 35k 200 mile car… and also have the durability and reliability that they have now established since their first gen had its initial issues…
      If he could get control of the dealer networks so they would push the electrics and not cater to the service departments profit lines via ICE cars he could whomp on the market. But that is a very tall order. He will have to drive demand from the top with national advertising and get the electric powertrain into as many of their cars as possible ASAP to continue to hold the share they currently have and even grow it.
      Pass the popcorn… this is getting fun!

      1. finecadmin says:

        Except when he doesn’t hold his cards close at all. e. g., now, and last month’s higher-capacity pack.

        1. Jeff Songster says:

          This is not a leak… considering the lead time necessary to design, engineer, test build, produce an auto… this new LEAF is already around a year away. The 2016 is released… it will be available for those who are less concerned with range or live in areas like: Japan, the SF Bay Area or pacific northwest that have decent charging infrastructure and commuter lane incentives where it remains an awesome option.

          This announcement is geared to the folks who are either already 1.0 customers waiting for the next wave or range concerned folks who can’t jump until the car can do 200 miles. It is also designed to reestablish Nissan in the vanguard of companies that are leading the EV movement. The recent announcements by Tesla and GM have been well received by the press. Nissan has been ignored quite a bit recently while Google, Tesla, Apple and Mercedes are getting lots of press for their autonomous driving projects. Sadly I didn’t see the national news going on about a new concept car that drove itself onto the stage. Was this a remote control trick? If not then why didn’t Nissan shout about it more?

    2. Nissan is the world’s only electric car manufacturer with full car production on 3 continents to deliver quantities in time!

      1. krona2k says:

        Nissan are definitely playing the long game and I think they will be rewarded in the end.

  13. Taser54 says:

    Is this new battery pack also without a TMS? I still would be wary of that, especially since they raised the DCFC rate to 100KW.

    1. GeorgeS says:

      That’s a big question in my mind also. Should be interesting to see what happens to the TMS. I just can’t see LG allowing their cells to go uncooled.

      1. Jeff Songster says:

        This is a different chemistry… also… they did add cooling to the pack of the eNV200. So they are clearly ready to do that if they feel the need.

        1. GeorgeS says:

          Should be interesting to see what Nissan comes up with in the TMS dept.

          AFAIK the newest LG chem battery chemistry IS NMC and it will be used in the Bolt. Coincidentally LG has a patent on a new battery cooling scheme that uses pure freon in the cooling loop (ie no glycol intermediate loop).

          http://gm-volt.com/2015/06/22/the-chevy-bolt-battery-pack-possibilities/

          Also only Tesla batteries with a more robust battery TMS can charge at the full 120 kw super charger rates…..so all indication point to, not only a rudimentary TMS like in the eNV but to an advanced TMS that can handle higher cooling rates.

          We’ll see but I just don’t see how Nissan can go without a decent TMS this time.

        2. Anderlan says:

          There is *definitely* the need for thermal management on a vehicle that will take long trips on the highway. Hours of alternating A.) high power levels out of the battery from 65+mph, and B.) high power levels into the battery from quick chargers.

        3. ModernMarvelFan says:

          “So they are clearly ready to do that if they feel the need.”

          That is the problem.

          They didn’t feel the need for early LEAF and look what happened?

          I don’t trust their “feelings”.

  14. M. St. J. says:

    Here it is November 1 and Nissan still doesn’t have the 2016 models in show room yet. I read an article yesterday that said the 2017’s will have 130 mile range and the 2018’s will have 150 mile range. Does this mean the 200 mile range won’t be out till the 2019 model? Nissan had the lead in electric cars and they made a very nice vehicle called the Leaf. I hope they don’t lose that technological lead to GM, Tesla, others. I would like to stay with Nissan and leaf but I don’t know that I can wait another three years for a 200 mile electric vehicle from them. Getting them to work with current Nissan leaf owners is kind of like pulling teeth.

    1. Josh says:

      Ghosn let it slip in the presentation of this that the 30 kW LEAFs will go on sale in December in Japan and January in the rest of the world.

      Not sure if that was a mistake, but was sad to hear.

    2. mr. M says:

      they probably confused numbers. Leaf MY 2016 is already at 150 miles (NECD) and 107 miles (EPA).

      insideevs.com speculated that the Leaf MY 2017 will have a range of only 170miles, but nissan stated more than 200 miles (EPA)

  15. hpver says:

    This is great news, and it’s undoubtedly Nissan’s way of providing a response tot he planned Bolt launch.

    Can’t wait. Our Leaf lease is up June of 2016. We are going to turn it in and do without for six months to a year while we wait for a 200 mile EV.

  16. Alan says:

    Nissan were never at any time going to let the upcoming GM Bolt or the Tesla model lll steal the limelight in affordable 200 mile range EV’s.

    Don’t be surprised if this actually makes it to market sooner than late 2017 !

  17. przemo_li says:

    No we wont see that thing in 2nd gen Leaf.

    Its freaking concept car. Its sole purpose is to make Nissan brand desirable.

    Good news though is that Nissan is third to use EV to enhance sexiness of their brand 🙂

    And that bode well for future Nissan EV offerings.

    1. Vexar says:

      … sexiness of the brand and “the future is in drag,” I’m falling off my hinges laughing right now.

    2. krona2k says:

      Nissan *should* be the first to get the ‘affordable’ next gen EV on the market, they’ve had more time than anyone else. Obviously it’s all about getting the cells and that’s probably going to be the sticking point.

      1. Vexar says:

        For a single model, sure. However, GM made the Impact, which was later the EV-1. Tesla made the Roadster. I think the shortfall is that the Leaf, for all its strengths, is, unlike the Model S and the i3, still a retrofit of an existing Nissan (was it the Versa?). I sincerely hope that he next Nissan follows through with an abandonment of an ICE chassis, as this article suggests. Nothing is lamer than a transaxle tunnel hump on the floor for a car that doesn’t have one, or having the bottom of the car open to the elements for no reason at all, since the motors are 90% efficient versus ICEs that are maybe 25% efficient (the rest turns into heat).

        1. Brian says:

          What year Leaf do you have that has a tunnel hump or a bottom open to the elements? My 2012 has neither.

          1. Brandon says:

            The Leaf was build from the ground up as an EV: http://www.pluginamerica.org/vehicles/nissan-leaf

          2. Vexar says:

            I don’t have a Nissan. I have a Tesla. I misspoke a little, but my previous FWD vehicle had a transaxle hump but no transaxle. I’m not mistaken on the origins of the Nissan Leaf, the EV-12 was based on the Versa platform: http://www.torquenews.com/1080/where-your-nissan-leaf-came

            1. Vexar says:

              …as your own article points out!

              1. Brandon says:

                Yes, I see you are right. It says:
                “based on the Versa’s platform and chassis”.

            2. mr. M says:

              It makes sense to use what you have to get R&D running. So your statement is the R&D for the Nissan Leaf was based on a Versa chassis and this is bad?

              The Leaf production model has a own chassis and is not based on the versa.

  18. storky says:

    Looks like they borrowed heavily from the BMW i3

    1. Maybe, or the i8 – particularly in the rear quarter panel area.

  19. This article makes a LOT of sense. Nissan gets to show the 2nd gen Leaf, without directly threatening their current Leaf sales.

    I really like this car! I think it looks far better than the current Leaf, and it has lots of aerodynamic features, so I think it will have more than 2X the range of the 30kWh Leaf.

    1. Pedro says:

      Completely agree. This car is a big step forward, it’s more aerodynamic than the first generation Leaf and the upcoming Chevrolet Bolt.

    2. Anon says:

      Yup. This is a Leaf I wouldn’t be embarassed to drive.

  20. Anderlan says:

    ONE question: Active cooling?

    My 2014 goes almost into the red on long trips in summer. An EV cannot go more than 200 miles at highway power levels/highway pitstop charging levels without active pack cooling, except in very cool weather.

  21. Alex says:

    For Ghosn beeing so courageous i will buy the second generation Leaf, will be my third one but i have some utilization for the older, my women. Just ordered 30 kWh here in Europe and dealer mean end December.

  22. Scott Franco says:

    “It appears “the future” (aka next gen LEAF) will accept CHAdeMO charging at 100 kW, which will enable adding 100km/62 miles of additional range in about 7 mins of charge time.”

    How was this conclusion arrived at?

    1. Tman says:

      100kw of charging for 7mins is
      7min/60min*100kw=11.666kwh ~11.7kwh

      From the claimed range of 500km from 60kwh, we get an energy consumption of 60000wh/500km=120wh/km.

      So 100kw charge for 7mins will yield
      11666wh/120wh/km= 97.2km(60miles)

      So it seems the presenters rounded 97km to 100km(don’t know the reason for this) but of course this will be lower on EPA rating.

      1. Dragon says:

        Yeah, 60 miles in 7 mins is WAY off for real-world mileage. Tesla Model S P60 (also 60kwh pack) supercharging at 120kw adds 60 EPA-rated miles in just over 14 minutes. They should be looking to push CHAdeMO toward 150kw like Tesla is doing if they want 200+ mile range cars to charge in reasonable time. Of course I don’t know if they can go over 100kw without adding active cooling, unless the new chemistry helps with that. At higher states of charge, charging slows down, especially without active cooling. Charging from 20 to 182 miles on the P60’s pack takes at least an hour.

  23. Weis says:

    I think the new 60kwh battery is great. Bring it on. But I am concerned about the cost of the new car. Can it be under $35,000?

    1. mr. M says:

      i think worst case: add 3000$ to the SL

  24. mike w says:

    Nissan’s new 60 KWH battery. Well the cells are stacked on top of each other to help retain heat. Nissan warrants their batteries for capacity loss but does not provide replacement batteries under warranty when the internal resistance drop your range to 40 mile on a full charge. So I am going to say “No Thank you” to another one of their batteries.