Need Your Tesla Model S Or X Serviced? Be Prepared For A Wait

5 months ago by Eric Loveday 83

Tesla Service Center

Tesla Service Center

Growing pains is more than just a popular 80s sitcom. It’s a term that, at some point in time, can be applied to just about any relatively new company out there, including Tesla Motors.

Tesla Being Serviced

Tesla Being Serviced

Tesla is currently struggling to provide quick service to customer vehicles due to service centers being overwhelmed with the volume of vehicles they are tasked with handling.

As Automotive News reports:

“Tesla Motors is expanding quickly, and current vehicle owners have front-row seats to witness the small automaker’s growing pains.”

“Model S and Model X owners report long waits to schedule service appointments — from routine checkups to more pressing issues such as faulty door latches and suspicious engine noises.”

How long are these waits? Well, there are extreme examples out there, which we won’t touch upon here, but typical wait times for appointments to get vehicles fixed for minor items like faulty door latches or a window that doesn’t operate properly, seems to be 7 to 10 days.

In contrast, a repair such as the two mentioned here would usually be handled same or next day by a conventional dealer.

Tesla Store/Service Center In Dublin, California

Tesla Store/Service Centers (like this one in Dublin, California) may need to be greatly expanded, or companion facilities built to accomodate future Model 3 sales

Automotive News adds:

“There are 61 service centers operating in 24 states, with 10 additional locations listed as “coming soon” on Tesla’s website.”

That won’t be nearly enough when the Model 3 hits (and it’s not even close to enough right now) though with production capability of 500,000 units annually in the next couple of years.

So, what’s Tesla to do? Start training techs and constructing hundred of additional service centers now? Outsource repairs to qualified indepedent shops? Hopefully Tesla has a solution already in the works. If not, a one week wait could turn into one month or more when the Model 3 comes out in volume.

Source: Automotive News

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83 responses to "Need Your Tesla Model S Or X Serviced? Be Prepared For A Wait"

  1. Dr. ValueSeeker says:

    It is actually more because of poor build quality. 61 service centers for about 75000 cars in US averages to about 4 cars per day per service center, with 310 working days a year (Mon-Sat). I am assuming the car needs service once a year. My non-Tesla car needs much less than that.
    This volume is negligible compared to traditional dealerships.
    Either the “14 moving parts” Teslas actually need a lot more service, or the quality is really terrible.
    Ask @Darryl over at TMC. He has a story to tell about his $150k lemon.

    1. Dr. ValueSeeker says:

      To add to that, nearly half of those 75000 cars are less than a year old. So the service load should be much LESS than what I showed.

      Tesla will NEVER outsource service/ That will spill the means on the whole poor quality issue even faster.

    2. Rob Stark says:

      Poor build quality is relative.

      All cars today are superior to a 1985 Toyota Camry. Aside from foreign car haters, no one said a Camry was a POS in 1985.

      Having said that all car companies have lemons. Hundreds of Toyotas and Lexus are bought back every year under Lemon laws in CA. According to Consumer Reports these are the highest quality cars sold today, the Lexus having less than one defect per car sold

      Mercedes has $200k lemons it buys back. And people that have the bad luck of buying a lemon bitch the loudest. According to Consumer Reports Tesla Model S has less problems per car than Mercedes S Class.

      When you innovate as fast as Tesla does and grow over 50% per year you will have more problems than say the Lexus LS that has not changed in any meaningful way for 10 years.

      1. Four Electrics says:

        I’ve had two door failures, one window failure and two spoiler problems on my X. That’s much worse than a Camry, where the doors at least opened and shut properly.

        1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

          You claim to have bought a Model X even after being being one of the most persistent serial posters of anti-Tesla FUD on InsideEVs. Now you’re complaining about the supposed problems with your supposed Tesla car.

          So which set of repeated FUDster lies are we supposed to believe, FE? The ones from back when you were telling us that nobody should buy a Tesla car, or the more recent ones from after you claim to have bought one yourself?

          Fear, uncertainty and doubt (often shortened to FUD) is a disinformation strategy used in sales, marketing, public relations, talk radio, politics, religion, and propaganda. FUD is generally a strategy to influence perception by disseminating negative and dubious or false information and a manifestation of the appeal to fear. — Wikipedia

          1. DonC says:

            Your incessant rants that anyone with facts or opinions contravening your preconceived narrative is guilty of spreading FUD have turned you into a caricature of a Tesla fanboy.

            Caricature: a person in which certain striking characteristics are exaggerated in order to create a comic or grotesque effect.

            1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

              Dude, do you seriously think we don’t notice that it’s only the anti-Tesla FUDsters who defend the other anti-Tesla FUDsters?

    3. Marek from Colorado says:

      Your conventional car needs at least 3 oil changes. ..each year…then 40k check up then 80…then timing belt …spark plags..transmission service atc… Teslas do need most of those services..if you would like to lnow Tesla has the highest ownership satisfaction from any car company. .at 97%…Im sorry to learn that your friend is one of 3%ters..we own Tesla and could not be happier. …we getting another one…regards..Marek

      1. Dr ValueSeeker says:

        https://www.edmunds.com/car-care/stop-changing-your-oil.html

        “The majority of automakers today call for oil changes at either 7,500 or 10,000 miles, and the interval can go as high as 15,000 miles in some cars. Yet this wasteful cycle continues largely because the automotive service industry, while fully aware of the technological advances, continues to preach the 3,000-mile gospel as a way to keep the service bays busy. As a result, even the most cautious owners are dumping their engine oil twice as often as their service manuals recommend.

        After interviews with oil experts, mechanics and automakers, one thing is clear: The 3,000-mile oil change is a myth that should be laid to rest. Failing to heed the service interval in your owner’s manual wastes oil and money, while compounding the environmental impact of illicit waste-oil dumping.”

        1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

          And now the anti-Tesla FUDster known as “Dr ValueSeeker” is extolling the “virtues” of gasmobiles on a website for EV enthusiasts.

          What a troll.

          Hey “Doc”, how many times do you think owners of Tesla cars and other BEVs will have to pay for an oil change or oil filter change, or to replace their muffler, or fan belt, or catalytic converter, or oil pump, or fuel filter, or to adjust the timing chain, or replace a head gasket, or get their valves ground?

          How many times will the owner of a BEV, on a bitterly cold winter day, have to deal with his car refusing to start, or water frozen in the fuel line?

          Speak up, don’t be shy! πŸ˜€

        2. Bill Howland says:

          There is not much of an advantage of a pure BEV over a GM PHEV. The oil life indicator, if run mostly in electric mode over the time, will only state an oil change is necessary once every 2 years or 24,000 miles, since the engines use that semi-synthetic DEXOS.

          My last FORD product said in the owners’ manual to change the oil and filter at 10,000 miles or 1 year – and that car started losing cylinders at 42,000 miles. I called the zone manager, and he said that the oil should be changed at 3000, since the oil filter doesn’t grap micro particles, and the 10,000 in the owners’ manual was just for a marketing advantage, there was nothing special about the engine.

          So far with GM however, the 2 year/24,000 mile dictum seems to be working well – the engine runs so seldomly that it takes 2 years to put any wear on the oil or filter anyway..

          And as far as the ELR is concerned, there is NO uncovered maintenance for the first 50,000 miles other than license plate lamps, tire issues, or wiper blades, or car washes, or touch-up painting.

          1. Bill Howland says:

            ALmost forgot to mention: Every 1/2 year for 4 years I can go in and get the tires rotated, and all fluids (such as windshield washer fluids) topped off.

            There’s no real reason to do it, but my dealership also provides a free Dexos oil change and filter every half year (to their surprise I tell them to only do it annually, since the oil and filter were hardly used anyway) – other dealers will only do the oil change if the ‘oil life indicator’ is below 20%.

          2. Bill Howland says:

            RE: “Illegal Oil Dumping due to 3000 mile changes”.

            I don’t care what Edmunds says, If I’m using conventional oil in a conventional ICE, I’m changing the oil and filter every 3000 miles regardless of what the owners’ manual states since I’ve already lost a FORD engine over this issue as I mentioned.

            If you go into most places’ cheap oil change, they’ll give u perfectly serviceable (for another 3000 miles) reconstituted recycled oil that saves the environment and meets the manufacturer’s requirements.

      2. Viking79 says:

        Tesla’s service plan for S/X will cost more than maintaining most ICE cars.
        https://www.tesla.com/support/service-plans

        1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

          You can’t reasonably compare a Tesla Model S or X to a Toyota Camry or a Honda Accord.

          Yes, Tesla service is more expensive than it is for the average gasmobile, but it’s significantly cheaper than the average cost for service for gasmobiles in the same ~$90,000 to $100,000 price range of the average Tesla car.

          More expensive cars have more expensive parts, and more widgets and gadgets in them that can go wrong. That’s just as true of PEVs (Plug-in EVs) as it is for gasmobiles.

          For those who are interested in reading comments from actual Tesla car owners on the subject, lots of discussion (pro and con) here:

          https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/tesla-4-year-service-plan-do-we-need-it-is-it-worth-it.51117/page-2

          For example, here is one of the “pro” comments which makes the same points that many do:

          [quote]
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          Me, well, after having spent more than $100,000 for my MS; it being my 13th new vehicle I’ve owned in my life; and having spent the last 25+ years owning Lexus, Acura, BMW, and MBZ with varying brand service approaches and reliability, I must say that for me, as a percentage of the cost of my MS, a fixed $475 per year to be up-to-factory-spec is a steal… My MS out-of-pocket annual costs will be less than what I spent many years having service performed on my previous luxury vehicles by the mfgr, e.g my 2014 MBZ SLK every-other-year mandatory B-Service (to maintain the warranty) cost me over $500, and that vehicle cost about half of my MS, with less performance and arguably different technology.

      3. DonC says:

        Tesla owners love their cars, so this isn’t by itself likely to change perceptions. But as more luxury vehicles like the Jaguar are released, long waits for service will have an impact.

        Not to mention that a company which has trouble servicing its cars when selling 75K or fewer vehicles a year isn’t ideally positioned to service them when selling 500K units a year.

      4. Bill Howland says:

        Marek, that is old info, especially when comparing to GM PHEV’s

        1). Oil change at 2 years or 24000 miles for most drivers who run mainly on electricity (unless the car is NEVER plugged in, then it will be around 7500 miles)

        2). CHECK (not replace) water pump belt @ 97,500 miles.

        3). Coolant flushes at 5 years / 150,000 miles.

        4). Spark plug (only 4 of them) replacement at 97,500 miles.

        Most of the better GM cars don’t have timing belts, period – they still use timing chains.

        This is a pretty easy requirement to satisfy.
        While maintenance on the “S” is optional apparently, on the Roadster it was deFacto mandatory since if you didn’t do the $830 plus tax yearly maintenance the car would stop running due to clogged filters.

    4. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      It’s really too bad when a known, active serial anti-Tesla FUDster is allowed to lead off a comment discussion thread about Tesla Motors and its cars. That sets a negative tone for the entire discussion, which of course is his malicious intent.

      Let us keep in mind that year after year, Tesla Motors continues to top Consumer Reports‘ ratings for customer satisfaction among all auto makers, and that includes legacy gasmobile manufacturers.

      Tesla Model S customers have a 92% customer satisfaction rating. The more trouble-prone Model X rates somewhat lower, but is still in Consumer Reports’ top 10.

      So let’s keep remarks from FUDsters like the mis-named “Dr. ValueSeeker” in perspective, as the campaign of hypocritical, greedy disinformation strategy of repeating Big Lies which it is.

      1. DJ says:

        FYI customer satisfaction is not the same thing as quality.

        When you have a group of people that don’t seem to mind as much if you need a new drive train, have doors that won’t open up or open up and crash in to stuff, have carpet that pulls up by itself, etc. obviously the satisfaction index is going to be skewed.

        Then again you already knew that. Not that they don’t make nice cars just that the % I suspect will drop a lot when the 3 is rolled out.

        1. Bill Howland says:

          Anyone ever watch the BBC comedy from a few years back “MY HERO”? (You can watch everything for free on YouTube).

          There was an episode dealing with the (what turned out to be a puny runt)

          ROYAL HIGH ARBITER OF THE UNIVERSE !!!!

          I have no problem with generalists commenting, but when someone who has no knowledge of anything technical, who constantly misinforms, and decides who can be here and who can’t – I get his IRE all the time even though Jay Cole has publically said he likes my comments – It shows many things ya just can’t take too seriously.

        2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

          DJ said:

          “FYI customer satisfaction is not the same thing as quality.”

          I didn’t mean to suggest that it was. My point is that the problems which are reported about the Model S appear to be coming from a very small percentage of owners.

          Sometimes cars are “lemons”, regardless of what company makes them. If that were not true, then we wouldn’t need “lemon laws”. Just look at, for example, the GM-Volt forum sometime. You can find plenty of negative comments there about the Volt 1.0, despite the fact that the car is probably one of the most reliable made within the past decade.

          The relatively few loud voices complaining about their Tesla cars get more than their share of attention because there is a whole group of anti-Tesla FUDsters out there, who will look for and endlessly repeat the most negative comments. Many or perhaps most anti-Tesla FUDsters are short-sellers motivated by greed, but some others are politically motivated to attack “green” tech.

          “When you have a group of people that don’t seem to mind as much if you need a new drive train, have doors that won’t open up or open up and crash in to stuff, have carpet that pulls up by itself, etc. obviously the satisfaction index is going to be skewed.”

          Ah, I see, so anybody who really likes their Tesla car only likes it because they’re hopelessly prejudiced… unlike people who really like every other brand of car. Everybody who owns some other brand of car has a completely objective opinion, free of the sort of bias which only Tesla car owners have.

          Got it. /sarcasm

  2. philip d says:

    “from routine checkups to more pressing issues such as faulty door latches and suspicious engine noises.”

    Hmm. I have a strange noise coming from my EV’s engine.

    1. Mr. M says:

      You drive a Zoe? =D

    2. Dave G says:

      Scary if you have a strange noise coming from your EV’s engine, since you don’t even have an engine!
      You might have a strange noise coming from your electric MOTOR though.

      1. philip d says:

        Exactly. I doubt that really is a common complaint called in by Tesla owners.

        1. Bill Howland says:

          If you’re talking ‘generically’ about the engine as the drive gear set MURMURING, then it was a common problem, but Tesla to their credit now will continually replace them as often as necessary (so it seems anyway) for 8 years.

          SO its much less a concern to the cost-conscious customer than previously.

          1. unlucky says:

            It was a common problem. No question. The “milling sound”. I have many many friends with Model Ses and access to feedback from hundreds. It was an all but universal problem. Multiple drivetrains were not at all rare.

            Tesla seemed to fix it about the time the dual motors came out. But having had a car with a good warranty but was in the shop all the time taking advantage of it, I’ll take reliability and proper up front design over willing repairs any day.

            1. Bill Howland says:

              Yeah, no argument from me; I was just trying to put an optimistic face on their now apparently excellent warranty coverage – it must be working because Tesla is selling more and more “S”‘s and they ain’t cheap.

          2. Jason says:

            Apart from the fact of a great warranty, I read a lot about the motor being replaced in the Tesla. This simplicity of the EV drive train was a big factor in my purchase decision, but all the comments about how many motors Tesla has replaced seems to indicate this is not true.

            Was the Tesla motors just a poorly built product? Or could it be the stress of all this high performance acceleration?

            I don’t seem to hear as much of an issue with other EV’s, but then again Tesla gets the most coverage.

            My EV is very quiet, but you most definitely can hear the whine of the motor (or maybe transmission) when it is pushed hard, some people have told me it sounds cool, sort of like a jet engine. Certainly much less than an ICE and nothing I am concerned about it is just different to an ICE.

  3. Kdawg says:

    I don’t know if outsourcing the work will help much as I think many of the delays are waiting to get parts.

  4. IndyGuy says:

    I know it’s only a couple of data points, but I’ve had no problem getting service on my Teslas in Indiana and Utah. The only issues I’ve had over three years of ownership have been self-inflicted (my kids tearing off rearview mirrors backing out of tight spaces).

    1. GoBlue88 says:

      Yeah, it depends on the density I guess. Here in San Diego there are Teslas everywhere, and there’s a pretty sizable wait for service now. They need to open 1-2 more service centers in the county.

  5. MSM says:

    Funny, I had no trouble getting an annual service done on my Model S recently in Chicago. Basically, next day service. While the article doesn’t go into detail, I would guess that service wait times are greater in, say, CA and FL, where the density of Tesla’s is much greater.

    Re: service: I had a charge port ring light go out, and it was fixed the same week at no charge by a Tesla Ranger coming out to fix it in my garage! Try getting a GM, Ford, or Toyota dealer to do that! Oh, and the car does a couple dozen more things than it did when I drove it home the first time due to ongoing software updates. Again, no additional charge. ‘Nuff said.

    1. Spider-Dan says:

      Well, no, you aren’t going to get home service for a $20,000 Corolla or Fiesta.

      I don’t think home service is out of the question from a BMW or Porsche dealership, which is probably a more reasonable comparison.

  6. Bonaire says:

    Until we see another 40-50 service centers setting up through the US alone, i doubt that Model 3 rollout will go well. The current markets could take a doubling of sales and service but the coverage needs to be greater.

    1. Murrysville EV says:

      I might pass on my Model 3 reservation if this isn’t resolved. Not only is there a long wait time, the closest service center to me is an hour away.

  7. Christopher Kuhns says:

    Tesla at least delivers a quality product to begin with. Service issues are to be expected.

    1. Neromanceres says:

      If that were true than this wouldn’t be an issue.

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        What “issue” is that?

        In my experience, as well as the experience described to me by friends and family, it is expected to have to wait to get your car in to be serviced, regardless of how serious the problem is. Having it serviced within a day of noticing the problem would be an unexpected and pleasant surprise.

        The issue of Tesla delaying service for minor problems is the only problem worthy of discussion here. I find it simply bizarre that writer Eric Loveday is calling out Tesla for what is a normal and everyday delay in getting your car in for service when dealing with a major problem. Just what is Mr. Loveday’s agenda here, and why does an article with such a negative and apparently biased tone belong on InsideEVs? πŸ™

        1. GoBlue88 says:

          I don’t see that bias in the article at all. And my recent personal experience with 2 major issues was that I got prioritized over those with minor issues:

          1) A year ago I was driving from San Diego to Vegas. Pulled into the Barstow Supercharger and plugged in. All hell broke loose on my dashboard, and the car shut down. Turns out the battery heater failed so the car was protecting the battery from the Supercharger amps coming in. I only lost 45 minutes on my trip – Tesla had Enterprise pick me up at the Supercharger and I was driving out of there in a gas car while Tesla had my MS towed to the Costa Mesa service center for repair, all for free. Picked it up a few days later on my way back from Vegas.

          2) Last June I was coming back to San Diego from Northern California when a battery voltage warning popped up on my dash. Called Tesla and was able to complete the trip, but they got me in the SC immediately and swapped out my battery for a loaner. My old battery got sent to Fremont for a rebuild and I had it back several months later but was able to drive my car with the loaner battery the whole time.

          For my routine service last May, I had to give about 2 weeks lead time. So while I think the article is accurate especially around minor issues and annual service and especially in high-density areas like San Diego, Tesla still does a good job dealing with major issues quickly.

    2. DJ says:

      It is January still, not April but thanks for the laugh πŸ™‚

      1. Bill Howland says:

        Having owned one, DJ I get the joke…

        This is why I say my ELR is by almost an order of magnitude, the MOST ELECTRIC car I’ve ever owned. It goes to and from the dealership for rare warranty service work on electricity alone.

        A nit-pick would be the engine runs at 32 degrees or less, and around here thats 2-3 months out of the year so it is not insignificant. Still, I can usually get around 100 mpg by letting the engine cycle, then quick turning off the heater and turning the recirculate ON so that way there is no way to cool down the radiator coolant which will restart the engine which I don’t want to happen. As I say, Just more GM arrogance found in many of their premium products, EV’s included.

  8. Jim Whitehead says:

    Thanks, Eric for bringing up the largest problem for Tesla I see on the horizon, outside of building the Model 3.

    When does Tesla hit the Repair Wall? When new cars pile up faster than old ones can be serviced so the line grows steadily longer. The current repair system seems close to collapse now (sorry, Tesla fans. I am one of you, and just being honest).

    Tesla will have to outsource or they are in big trouble. They don’t have the extra billion to triple the size of their service centers.

    But others won’t touch a Tesla unless its a profit center for them.

    Recall that Musk said it wouldn’t be a profit center for Tesla. I note that he never said it wouldn’t be a profit center for others!

    (I have learned to parse every Musk word carefully for loopholes and know he loves to exaggerate. Its like Mr. Trump, who once promised to toss out every single illegal alien. Now, we hear he is just going after the criminal aliens. So I similarly take Musk seriously, but not literally).

    1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      That is a serious issue, so thanks for bringing it up for discussion.

      Yes, if Tesla wants to authorize existing auto service shops to handle Tesla cars, then they certainly can’t demand that such shops not make a profit on it. The only alternative, as I see it, would be for Tesla to subsidize such repairs. While it might seem that this would be possible, altho would be a “hit” to Tesla’s profits (you know, those profits the Tesla bashers keep saying that Tesla isn’t making), I think it would lead to the same conflict of interest which leads so many, or perhaps most, legacy auto “stealership” service centers to overcharge and double-bill, billing both the manufacturer and the customer for the same service.

      I’d like to see a breakdown of costs. You claim claim that it would take a billion dollars for Tesla to triple its number of service centers. Is that true, or was that just a number thrown out for shock value?

      One thing is certain: Tesla is going to have to greatly accelerate how fast it’s opening new service centers, and they’re going to have to figure out how to do that before they start selling the Model ≑ in significant quantities.

      That will be true even if Tesla has to literally borrow a billion dollars to do it.

    2. Nix says:

      Tesla has already started programs to support third party repair companies over 2 years ago. This includes access to full mechanical factory service manuals at prices similar to other major luxury OEM’s, and getting certification to be a certified Tesla 3rd party body shop:

      https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/tesla-releases-service-manuals-and-other-info

  9. Rich says:

    Didn’t Musk say Tesla would double the number of chargers and service centers before the Model 3 releases? I thought this was in the initial Model 3 reveal.

    1. Neromanceres says:

      For the anticipated volume of the Model 3 doubling is nowhere near enough. They will need ten times the service centres and charging stations to keep up.

  10. The Fixer says:

    I don’t have a lot of faith in Tesla’s ability to navigate the upcoming hurdles. The biggest hurdle is not batteries, service centers, or logistics. It’s people. Plain and simple. Tesla is setting itself up for a demographic change overnight.

    Model S/X cars are sold to RICH people. These cars are show pieces, status symbols, something fun. If those Tesla owners reading this, don’t agree with me, frankly I don’t care. If you can afford to spend that kind of money on a car or $700-$800 a month on a leased car, then your priorities are different than folks looking to spend $30-35k on a car.

    The 3 is meant to be a “Every Person” car (I know within reason, many still can’t afford a $35k car).

    A car that is 120-150k is sold to a COMPLETELY different crowd than a 30K-40K car.

    The bitching and whining I see regarding a Nissan LEAF about minor issues are incredible, even though there is a nationwide network of established dealers setup to fix those issues. The bitching continues.

    They bitch about Nissan going slowly and how they are going to lose their edge. I think they are doing it EXACTLY like a well established fairly risk averse company would do it. They took a chance as the only car company to do a nationwide “affordable” EV roll out in 2010. Is/Was the Leaf perfect, hell no, but someone had to be first.

    They see Tesla bounding out like Hare, making bold claims, spending TONS and TONS of investors money. I truly hope Tesla succeeds, but at this point I’m very dubious. It is literally NO SKIN OFF Nissan’s nose if Tesla succeeds. Nissan has very little to gain and a huge amount to lose if they put billions and billions in to trying to maintain their “EV leadership”, because in the scheme of things, it’s still just a blip in their overall revenue at the moment.

    I try to imagine overlaying the bitching and whining that happens with the Leaf on top of the 3. The bar is set fairly low for the Leaf already, and Tesla makes a very big deal about setting the bar incredibly high.

    The same people who proudly tell everyone they are not going to buy another Leaf but are waiting for a Model 3 are going to have a very rude awakening in regards to quality, reliability, and service (At least initially). I’m not saying these things can’t be rectified over time, however, I don’t think Tesla has that kind of time before the cash runs out.

    I hope that I’m wrong.

    1. William says:

      You may be absolutely right. The Tesla Model 3 has to be produced in meaningful quantities, and put to the test, on the road across many States, if not the whole country. The proof is in the pudding, as it was with the Nissan Leaf, after at least a few model years worth of production. Only true customer feedback, along with manufacturer service response, can we become aware of the merits of any mass market vehicle, EV or similar PHEV.

      Tesla is just starting to get some serious growing pains now, and it will only become quite a bit more challenging in the next 12 months. I hope the realization becomes apparent, that the other ICE OEMs, under no circumstance, will just let Tesla take market share away from them unopposed, without a measured and well calculated competitive response. Like the Chevy Bolt, some OEMs will be quicker to offer Tesla a response, that offers some level of real competition. I think Tesla has to preform flawlessly with the Model 3, and continue to keep the majority of its customer base returning to Tesla with the loyalty rarely seen in any part of the automotive segment.

      1. philip d says:

        Improvement in reliability is probably why the interior of the 3 will be so spartan as well as the use of mechanical albeit odd door handles. Also the sedan format is probably easier to pull off than the large hatch that the S and Volt uses. No active spoilers or falcon wing doors. No pressure sensor door handles.

        It also won’t be as ludicrously powerful with insane amounts of torque as the performance Ses which puts incredible strain on the transmission.

        If they keep all of these things simple then it should be pretty reliable.

    2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      “The 3 is meant to be a ‘Every Person’ car (I know within reason, many still can’t afford a $35k car).”

      I think you’re overstating the case. The Model ≑, just like the Bolt, is in the “semi-affordable” price category. The M≑ won’t be the “Ford Model T” of the EV revolution; we’ll have to wait for an even less expensive “everyman” PEV (Plug-in EV) for that.

      Elon Musk has said Tesla will never make a car less expensive than the M≑. Unless Tesla changes its policy on that, then it looks like the breakthrough “everyman” PEV will have to come from some other EV maker. Perhaps BYD?

    3. Bill Howland says:

      Well, I’m probably not the person you are referring to when you are stating people who “Leaf Bitch”, as I think the Leaf, overall is a very nice car, and as it is the world’s most popular EV I’m in good company there.

      But I do note 2 things:

      1). Nissan’s corporate treatment of people who have had more than the usual trouble with their poorly cared for batteries is attrocious – namely Andrew Palmer’s suggestion to basically ‘fix the gas gauge so that it has all its bars’ instead of giving screaming customers a good battery system.

      2). Nissan’s Ghosn apparently has ‘Moved ON’ from Evs – claiming they WERE first in ev’s and now they “Will be First in Autonomous Driving”.

      SOUNDS to me like a 200 mile ev from Nissan is WAY WAY back on the back burner.

    4. Nix says:

      bitching and whining on the internet == every single model of every single brand of car.

      Name a model and brand of car, and I’ll point you to where owners bitch and whine about them on the internet.

      Bitching and whining about products on the internet is ubiquitous. Without quantification of the number of users out of the total owners impacted, it is meaningless.

      One of the regular posters here took the time to quantify and document actual Leaf owner battery complaints. The real numbers he collected didn’t match the volume of noise generated about the issue.

    5. Nix says:

      The internet is littered with tons of people who didn’t have any faith that Tesla would ever build the Roadster, or ever build the Model S, or ever build the Model X, or ever build the Model 3, even people who thought Tesla would never build any cars at all.

      I remember when Tesla was scaling Model S from 50 to 250 cars a week, and everybody was convinced that Tesla would never be able to increase production to 5 times their current production.

      Predictions of Tesla’s failure have been widely exaggerated for a long time. Those predictions haven’t worked out so well for those making them over the long term.

  11. DJ says:

    What’s the wait in Hong Kong for general service? A few months if you believe the articles. Better plan it out well in advance. There was an article I read where Tesla is purposely reducing their roll out of service centers in the US. Not a bright thing to do with the M3 coming out if you ask me. The S and X zealots don’t mind the annoyances of build and quality issues as much as the masses will and when you tell them they have to wait weeks for their M3 to get fixed it is going to be a problem.

    I certainly hope they ramp up their service centers or work with partners so that service doesn’t , or lack thereof, doesn’t tarnish their rep.

  12. terminaltrip421 says:

    would a class action lawsuit to force tesla into allowing others to service their vehicles be out of he question if this sort of thing persists if not grows once the model 3 is on the market? because yeah chances are the model 3 will be a lot of people’s daily driver.

  13. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

    Why is this news? It’s been previously reported that Tesla service centers are now triaging service, with less urgent repairs being put off for a week or so, and urgent ones being given priority.

    The bigger issue the, the real story worthy of discussion, is what this says about Tesla’s ability to roll out new service centers. Of course we do expect growing pains from a fast-growing company, but Tesla is poised to grow at, what, five to ten times its current rate when ramping up to full production of the Model ≑?

    Tesla has at least once or twice mentioned the need to expand the number of its sales centers to get ready for much higher volume of sales with the Model ≑. I respectfully suggest that expanding the service centers is even more important. Sales can always be conducted entirely online. Kinda hard to do that with a car that needs service!

    1. unlucky says:

      When something negative about Tesla is repeated you cry it isn’t news.

      Will you do the same next time insideevs repeats positive information about Tesla?

      We had another story about software for AP2 HW rolling out. Did you jump in there and ask why this is news?

      Sites will run stories that produce views and comments. Best believe the hot subjects will run over and over. Looks like this is one of them. You shouldn’t take it so hard.

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        “Will you do the same next time insideevs repeats positive information about Tesla?”

        Dude, I’ve posted so many complaints about the endless videos of illegal street drag races pitting a Model S or X vs. a gasmobile that I stopped because my own posts on that subject were getting repetitive.

        1. unlucky says:

          Okay. Fair enough on that point. I never even click those because they are indeed tedious. So I didn’t see your comments in there.

          1. Nix says:

            It isn’t just drag stories. Pushy is consistently fairly negative (within realistic non-bashing levels of negativity) in any story about falcon wing doors and autopilot. He also has commented many time that he doesn’t believe Tesla will make the 2017 deadline for volume M3 production.

            Have you read any of those Tesla stories?

            ————————

            There is no contradiction in his posts like that, and the fact that he posts when people either intentionally or unintentionally post the fake news talking points that are part of an actual documented anti-Tesla campaign funded by the oil industry.

            You are aware that oil industry funded sites exist exclusively to repeat mis-information about Teslas, right?

            http://www.teslarati.com/elon-wants-know-behind-fake-news-attacks/

            https://qz.com/844425/fake-news-is-the-newest-strategy-for-taking-down-elon-musk-tesla-tsla-and-solarcity/

            If you find yourself unintentionally repeating fake news that are trafficked by those folks, don’t be surprised if you are called on it.

            And anyone who becomes a serial intentional trafficker of their talking points, can definitely be expected to be called out on it.

  14. Vexar says:

    The service center in my town has taken over adjacent business spaces and is expanding their sales and service bays. This “news” is incomplete without info on their growth plans and investment.

  15. Greg says:

    I’ve had my Tesla for nine months now and have over 23,000 miles on it. We did a 5000 mile trip last summer and have had absolutely no problems whatsoever with the car. I love it and can’t wait until my Model 3 gets delivered. Best car in the world.

  16. unlucky says:

    This problem has been piling up for some time in my area. Two weeks is about normal for getting an appointment. This is bizarre to me, I never had any of my other cars take more than two days. But local BMW owners said two weeks isn’t odd to them.

    To those who think it’s strange the car could break given how simple the drivetrain is, you have to realize how much of a car is things other than the drivetrain now. If you have an ICE car, what percentage of your repairs are on the engine itself? And what percentage is the windows not rolling down or something? Teslas have a lot of geegaws and some of those are also a bit less mature than the geegaws on competing cars. Think of just the doors and door handles alone. No Cadillac driver ever had a problem where their doorhandles didn’t work because they refuse to pop out when they walk up to it.

    1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      Unlucky, I’m glad to see that you are capable of writing a comment that:

      1. Sticks to the facts, or at least opinions based on facts, rather than FUD;

      -and-

      2. Doesn’t make any gratuitous personal attack on someone who hasn’t addressed you on the subject under discussion.

      Now, why don’t you try to do this more often, instead of going out of your way to attack people for the “crime” of refuting some of the more obvious and more outrageous anti-EV FUD and Big Lies posted to InsideEVs?

      1. unlucky says:

        If you were trying to be nice to me you did a horrible job. You just come off as condescending and making backhanded compliments (to a person who said nothing against you in this case no less).

        I request that you don’t do me any favors of this sort and instead stick to subject at hand.

  17. tosho says:

    We all know that Tesla build quality is bad. They’ll fix that eventually.

    P.S. Build quality is not that much of a problem if Tesla honor their guaranty and fix the cars when something breaks. I can tell you countless horror stories about dealers that refuse to repair cars in warranty just because they can…

    1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      “We all know that Tesla build quality is bad.”

      No, we certainly don’t “know” that. What we do know is that there are a lot of people posting anti-Tesla FUD — that is, a disinformation strategy campaign — which is trying to convince people that this is true.

      We also know, from Consumer Reports and a few other credible sources, that Tesla cars have had more reliability problems than is common with more down-market, cheaper cars.

      What nobody has done is perform an honest, unbiased, statistically valid survey comparing the reliability of Tesla cars to other cars in the same price category. Look at Consumer Reports‘ lists for “Best” cars of the year. How many are in the “premium” or “luxury” price category? Other than the “Best Luxury SUV” category, none. Not a single one.

      * * * * *

      Anecdotal evidence is, if not valueless, at least not useful for figuring out what the average case is, nor figuring out how commonly something happens. But if we’re gonna rely on anecdotal evidence, then we should pay just as much attention to all those actual Tesla car owners on the Tesla Motors Club.com forum reporting that their their Tesla car is significantly more trouble-free, and significantly cheaper to maintain, than previous “premium” cars from other auto makers which they’ve owned in the past.

    2. jelloslug says:

      My Tesla is leaps and bounds better than the BMW I had before.

  18. fotomoto says:

    “suspicious engine noises.”

    I’d make an appointment too if my electric car began to make “engine noises”. πŸ™‚

    1. ClarksonCote says:

      Gah, you beat me to it! πŸ™‚

  19. jelloslug says:

    “In contrast, a repair such as the two mentioned here would usually be handled same or next day by a conventional dealer.”

    I have never had a conventional dealer fix anything in the same or next day. My BMW always required a part that had to be sourced in Germany and then was flown in on a zeppelin.

  20. ClarksonCote says:

    “Model S and Model X owners report long waits to schedule service appointments β€” from routine checkups to more pressing issues such as faulty door latches and suspicious engine noises.”

    Well, Automotive News, if there is an engine noise, that is suspicious indeed!!! πŸ˜‰

    1. Vexar says:

      The last time a Tesla had an engine noise, it was in a news story, added by the video editors.
      What they are probably talking about is the milling sound of the gearbox.

  21. Ryan Holland says:

    At home in Minneapolis I have never had to wait more than 24 hours to get a service appointment on either my Roadster or Model S. Many times they have picked my vehicles up from my home and even one time drove me to the airport so they could have my car for the week.

    On a roadtrip this summer our Model S was stranded in Moab, UT with a charging hardware failure (85k mi signature). The nearest service center was Salt Lake City which was out of the way for our trip. We were scheduled to leave for Denver the next morning. Tesla, on thier own, decided to flatbed our car 400 miles to Denver instead of 200 miles to Salt Lake City overnight and had a technician stay until 11pm to repair and test our car so it was ready for us the next morning. Tesla rented us a car to continue our trip to Denver as planned and we picked up our Model S the following day to complete our roadtrip.

    Show me a traditional dealer with that kind of service.

  22. jelloslug says:

    Well, I just put this to the test this morning. I called my local service center to have the windshield replaced after a nasty little run in with a rock. The parts are in stock and I can have it replaced as early as Thursday at 9 AM.

  23. Fred Gibutr says:

    This is the result of customers being treated like beta testers in the interest of profit. I bet the Chevy Bolt will be more reliable though. GM has learned lessons that Tesla still must learn.

    1. HN says:

      Chevy and reliable in the same sentence is …

  24. Nix says:

    I read the original source, and it was nothing more than a “my buddy said” and individual antidote story. No actual numbers, no real attempt at quantifying anything. It provided no real information.

    Tesla has already announced multiple plans to address service times, with the creation of a “Fast Lane”, and they opened 17 more brand new service center in Q3 2016 alone, and 10 more “coming soon”.

    https://electrek.co/2016/07/18/tesla-service-fast-lane-wait-times/

    If somebody has recent ACTUAL DATA (not just anecdotes) from after all the Q3 2016 service centers being opened, and after the “Fast Lanes” were created, I would be interested in seeing that data.

  25. Dave Harmon says:

    No wait for me on my Tesla in St. Louis. Managed to get a tire repair on Wednesday afternoon before Thanksgiving within 20 minutes of my unscheduled appearance at the St. Louis Tesla service center.

  26. James Malenfant says:

    Owners of any vehicle are going to have to pay to keep them on the road. A broken door latch, or malfunctioning window can be repaired at any modern car facility. You don’t have to go to a dealer for minor repairs. Expect to pay. If you can afford $125,000 for a car, you can afford a spare car. Besides, with the new electric Chevys, you could possibly take it to any GM facility for repairs. Save the dealers for the big stuff. Have a great day!

  27. Richard Gordon says:

    I would certainly call engine noises suspicious given there is no engine in an EV.

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