LG Chem To Supply 200 Mile Battery In 2016; But To Whom?

2 years ago by Jay Cole 86

Darn You LG Chem Mystery Cars For 2016!

Darn You LG Chem Mystery Cars For 2016! (earlier Graphic representing cars starting production for 2016)

Today, LG Chem announced that it is planning on delivering 200 mile batteries in 2016.

GM Recently Expanded Their Relationship With LG Chem To Include Supplying Batteries In The 2015 Spark EV

GM Recently Expanded Their Relationship With LG Chem To Include Supplying Batteries In The 2015 Spark EV

Here is the fun part.  In making the statement, LG Chem’s CEO Cho Suk-jeh DID NOT specifically call out the automaker (s) who have contracted with the company for their 2nd generation battery product.

As LG Chem already has many lithium battery supply deals in place with lots of EV makers today; let the speculation begin!

General Motors:  If you crack open any Chevrolet Volt or Cadillac ELR, you can find up to 17.1 kWh (2015 Volt) worth of LG Chem’s batteries inside.  Starting this year (MY 2015) GM has also removed A123 batteries from inside the Spark EV in favor of 19 kWh’s worth of LG Chem cells.  Additionally,  ex-CEO Dan Akerson had said GM was working on a 200 mile EV in the past

Renault-Nissan: Many of Renault’s EVs today (think Zoe and Twizy) have LG Chem batteries inside, and just two months ago the two companies signed a memorandum of understanding to jointly develop the next generation of batteries.

Ford: This seems unlikely given the automaker’s strong love (and sales results) of all things extended range plug-in (think Fusion Energi, C-Max Energi).  Still, those all-electric Focus Electrics you see driving around today are powered by LG Chem…and Ford has shown enough initiative to start producing the EV in both the US and more recently in Europe.

Who Doesn't Love A Wild Card? Volvo Plug-In Concept From 2014 NAIAS

Who Doesn’t Love A Wild Card? Volvo Plug-In Concept From 2014 NAIAS

Daimler/smart:  The German automaker found out recently that making your own batteries sounds like a good idea, but is really hard.  Daimler looked to unload its JV Li-Tec battery business last year, but all they got was a 1 Euro bid from LG Chem; which was about a billion less than they had hoped.

Instead, they bought full ownership of Li-Tec  and plan to keep building cells in Kamenz, Germany, until at least, wait for it2015!  After that they can rely on a new deal they have in place with, wait for itLG Chem.

Volvo:  LG Chem and Volvo already have a working relationship in place with the hot-selling V60 Plug-In Hybrid; a vehicle that will morph into XC90 Plug-In Hybrid SUV shortly.  After that?  A long range, all-electric XC90 has been foretold by the company.

Others:  LG Chem is about to also produce batteries in China, and players like SAIC Motor Corp and Qoros (plus 2 other non-disclosed companies) have already recently signed up to use the South Korea-based battery maker’s cells.  When will this factory, which is able to supply enough batteries for “more than 100,000 ” cars, be ready?  By the end of 2015.

The only major OEM we can truly rule out is Tesla, as they have tied their wagon to Panasonic for any US Gigafactory production, and reportedly with Samsung SDI to help supply the upcoming Model X.

Regardless of who has tied-their-wagon to LG Chem, what we can say is that a 200 mile EV is now coming from a mainstream automaker, and it is coming soon!

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86 responses to "LG Chem To Supply 200 Mile Battery In 2016; But To Whom?"

  1. shawn marshall says:

    weight
    size
    cost

    1. kdawg says:

      And wouldn’t the range depend on what car they put the battery in? So how can they say a “200-mile battery”? They should say XkWh battery, range will vary.

      1. Dr. Kenneth Noisewater says:

        200mi battery needs to be at least 55kWh usable.

        1. The Illuminati Motor Works ‘7’ goes 220+ miles at 60-70MPH on a 33kWh lithium pack. It has 99 100Ah CALB cells, and it recently took part in the Vetter Challenge (as a demonstration entrant) and on the hilly course, it went 154 miles at ~70MPH average consuming 26.04kWh total.

          That’s 169Wh/mile aka 201MPGe.

          In the past they have driven ‘7’ 220 miles and had ~10% charge left. That was on flatter ground and in low wind conditions at 60-70MPH typically.

          It is silly to say “200 mile battery” – just as it is silly to say “200 mile fuel tank”.

          It is the car you put it in, that is important.

    2. kdawg says:

      And next question; how fast will the battery charge? Can it do Tesla levels of 135kW? If yes, then we will need more DCFCs.

  2. Taser54 says:

    Based upon GM’s prior statements and business relationship, it would have to be the leading candidate. Given that GM had a test fleet of cruze EVs in Korea with LG batteries at least 3 years ago, it would further support that GM is the prime candidate.

    1. GeorgeS says:

      Holy sh*t Sherlock.
      GM really IS going to do a 200 mile EV.
      Very, very exciting.
      My Volt lease will be up and I’ll be looking for something new.

      If they hit the sales floor before Tesla’s gen 3 that would be great.

      Can you believe the uproar this will cause if they beat Tesla gen3 price.

      1. rfanrj says:

        This isn’t going to help me if GM doesn’t start selling the Spark EV outside of CA.

        1. mike w says:

          This isn’t going to help me either if there is no CCS type DC fast chargers. GM has been talking about a 200 mile EV for some time.

      2. Naturenut99 says:

        It won’t help me either, unless they intend on using Tesla’s Superchargers.
        No, a CCS plug will not sufice.

        Good if they actually do it. But without available fast charging stations, it misses the point.

  3. GeorgeS says:

    This is super good news. This confirms:

    Gen 2 Volt with 50 mile AER

    Gen 2 Leaf with 150 mile range is a slam dunk.

    I’m super curious what the chemistry will be.

    I’m betting on 5V spinel LMO which is current LMO with a little Ni added.

    1. John F says:

      Doesn’t the thermal management for the Leaf battery separate it from everyone else’s technology growth path. LG Chem technology might not play well in the Leaf. In the next generation of EVs, Leaf (and eNV200) would need to show it has some advantage in cost, simplicity, weight, charging, or reliability compared to everyone else. Perhaps 150 mile range will be enough for many drivers if the 200 mile range costs a lot more.

      So, I don’t know about the ‘slam dunk’, but it seems there will be more and better EV choices in next two to three years.

      1. mike w says:

        I’m thinking Nissan makes their own batteries so I would be surprised to see them buying anything from somebody else. Toyota is looking at FCV and a solid state battery for “Their 200 mile EV” So I’m thinking GM

        1. John F says:

          At this time, Nissan does make its own batteries. Will they always make their own? Don’t know. If LG Chem has a 200 mile technology battery, Nissan might buy it. Nissan might also license the technology and retool their battery manufacturing to use it. But I don’t know if Nissan will be able to take advantage of any of that without changing their cooling technology. I don’t think they can, so Nissan will be using technology independent of all others. For EVs, this is diversity that will give the industry more ways to win.

  4. MTN Ranger says:

    The chart says US OEM for a 2016 BEV, so that would only mean GM or Ford, right? I would say GM.

    At least the much maligned LG Chem battery plant in Michigan will start cranking out more production.

    1. Jay Cole says:

      From that chart it would appear.

      But as the disclaimer notes, that is confirmed production for vehicles that START production in 2016…in theory this battery might be produced by LG in 2016, but be 2017.

      Also that chart was released a couple months before today’s announcement. I would still agree that a US OEM, specifically GM would be the lead/obvious choice.

  5. Evil Attorney says:

    Yea, really seems like it could be GM. Regardless, a 200 BEV from a large automaker is amazing news.

  6. David Murray says:

    My bet is also on GM. However, BMW may soon have need of a 200 mile battery pack as well. They are very committed to their EV program and they’ll need to get past 80-ish miles of range to compete with Tesla.

    1. kdawg says:

      Isn’t BMW in bed w/Samsung?

      1. Jeff D says:

        Yep, supposedly they are opening up their patents like Tesla did and what they are opening up relates to the Samsung battery packs.

  7. Jesse Gurr says:

    If the Focus electric batteries are LG Chem, then where are the Energi models? I don’t see them on the graph there so that means they are produced by someone else? That seems odd to me.

    1. MTN Ranger says:

      Panasonic makes the cells for the Ford hybrid and Energi models.

  8. Spec9 says:

    Yeah, I’m going to have to go with GM. They’ve talked about a 200 mile EV, they use LG in the Volt, they switched the Spark EV to LG Chem, etc.

    1. Bonaire says:

      Electric Equinox with 60kWh on board would be rockin’

  9. TomArt says:

    Why not all of the listed automakers? Samsung wouldn’t care if their customers’ products compete with each other…as long as those products have Samsung cells powering them.

    The announcement still amuses me, though…200 miles, huh? That’s amazing since nobody has ever manufactured an EV with at least 200 mile range…………

    The announcement is pointless without disclosing energy density.

    1. TomArt says:

      And, this radical idea of a 200 mile battery is going to debut in…2016…8 years AFTER Tesla Motors began deliveries of the 245-mile Roadster!

      1. TomArt says:

        And it’s also rather amusing that this announcement comes 1 day after it is revealed that Panasonic will formally sign onto the Tesla Gigafactory.

        1. pjwood says:

          …Tom, I like this one best.

        2. Anton Wahlman says:

          Source for this please…

          1. TomArt says:

            According to insideevs coverage…

      2. Taser54 says:

        Cmon now, be sensible. This is most likely going to be priced much less than the roadster. That IS Radical.

        1. TomArt says:

          The Model S debuted in 2012…4 years before 2016…and the 60kWh model has over 200 miles of range and starts $40k less than the 56kWh $110k Roadster did.

      3. Ivo says:

        Radical yes, if it is an affordable car.

        If it is at the price point of a Roadster, then, everybody could do it, no?

        1. JakeY says:

          Yes and no. If you care about having usable passenger and cargo space, then not everyone can do a 200 mile car without either Tesla’s approach or the new cells LG (and Nissan) is working on. For example: a 50-60 kWh pack using the cells in the non-Tesla vehicles will take up all the trunk space and/or the rear seat space (think about doubling or tripling the size of the packs in the Leaf and Spark for example).

          If you don’t care about those things and only want to stuff a car full of batteries, then everyone can do that.

        2. pjwood says:

          Radical, regardless, because there would be no telling when the longer range, potentially up scale BEV/PHEV market was going to so much as begin, until today.

          Some manufacturers (nameless) remain positioned to poo poo BEV/PHEV as “low end”. Actually, all the majors were in a position to carry this theme, away from their budget segments. One of them accepting delivery of a 200 mile capable, large cell format, battery is pretty radical. It also confirms that the 2017 model year will, once again, be a BIG deal.

          1. pjwood says:

            No offense to TSLA. I’m defining “major” as the entrenched mindset. This wouldn’t have happened without them!

      4. scottf200 says:

        TomArt is missing the point. It is not a technology problem but a price problem. “September 10, 2008, Tesla had delivered 27 of the cars to customers…The Roadster had a 2010 base price of US$109,000 in the United States, GB£86,950 in the United Kingdom, A$191,888 in Australia, and €84,000 in continental Europe.[9]” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster

        1. TomArt says:

          I’m not missing anything – the announcement didn’t say anything about price any more than it did about energy density.

          The fact is, the announcement is pure click bait, and at face value, it is 6 years behind the times.

    2. Evil Attorney says:

      I don’t think GM would both making a 200 mile BEV if it priced similar to a 60KWH Model S. So if a relatively cheaper 200 mile BEV is on the near horizon, that’s important news.

    3. See Through says:

      Denza EV in China already is 190 miles; close enough that some will call it 200 mile EV.
      Also, this range is very ambiguous. Is it 200 miles at highway speeds in US, or 200 miles at 50 mph? Is there even a standard when these ranges are announced? In what weather? The Chevy Spark EV already goes over 100 miles if driven at its ideal speed of 50 mph.
      What we need are the battery specs : what KWH at what weight at what price? But I guess, it is too early now.

      1. Mark H says:

        All those same questions apply to an ICE, but a 100 years later you don’t have them either.
        EV drivers track everything. If the ICE driver tracked them, they would find that they actually fare worse.

        1. See Through says:

          Mark, the electric cars existed before ICE came along. Whatever we are talking now (EV, battery swap) were there 100 years ago.
          Instead of 200 mile EV, a 2-3 minute recharge is more important. People rarely need more than 100 mile range. For those rare occasions, if they can just recharge it in couple of minutes, it will be good enough.

          1. Mark H says:

            I am referring to your specification statement dealing with change in performance in different weather and driving conditions. These deviations exists in ICEs as well.

            As an EV driver myself, I am free from the regular weekly stop that used to be in my life with an ICE. The infrequent 100+ mile trip that you speak of usually comes in the form of a vacation where a 20-30 minute stop in the middle of a 300 mile journey is generally welcome.

            It takes a while for an non-EV driver to realize the 2-3 minute weekly fueling, which normally turns out to be a 5-10 minute stop, happens dozens of times annually.
            http://insideevs.com/ev-vs-ice-fuel-time/

  10. Bob A says:

    All but one manufacturer is going, “Awww, crap! Now we’re gonna have to build a 200 mile BEV.” 🙂 Ain’t competition a wonderful thing?

    1. pjwood says:

      Indeed, think of the platform challenge. You can’t stick 50-70kwh of storage ahead of the firewall, and offer it as your third drive train. Going from the ground up effectively puts other manufacturers on notice that they’re behind, from now.

      1. TomArt says:

        Agreed.

    2. James says:

      Definitely!

  11. Josh says:

    I hope it is GM, otherwise the “200 miles” will be on Japan or EU cycle. That really means 125 EPA miles for 100% charge. Or 100 miles on standard charging, so not much more than we have now.

    Even GM missed their target on the Volt by 12%. Same with Tesla and the 85 kWh Model S, “300 mile” turned into 265 EPA. There was a change in the EPA method (2 cycle to 5 cycle) right at the time of Model S release that played into that.

  12. JakeY says:

    I’m throwing my guess out there for GM and a “maybe” for Renault.

    It’s also possible that it’s not only one automaker.

    I’m not going to write off Tesla completely either. LG Chem also makes plenty of 18650s and would work as a supplier to Tesla.

  13. Mark H says:

    You ever look at one of kdawg’s graphs showing the first bump in hybrid sales? It happened about six years into US adoption. Lots of interesting things happening to the EV market around 2016-2017. Tesla Model III, Nissan has declared 150 miles of range, and now this. Certainly the original million mark is just around the corner from this.

  14. “LG Chem To Supply 200 Mile Battery” …

    Is LG adding battery module and EV pack design/production to its line of services? Please share some technical details on this 200 mile LG’s battery with wheels.

  15. Alok says:

    I believe it will be important for it to have either Supercharger access or CCS. In the latter case, there should also be a dense network of multiple-plug 100 kW (or more) stations everywhere (quite possible by 2016-17).
    A 100 kW station (possible with CCS, as far as I know – is it correct?) with two plugs (each supporting up to 100 kW) could charge two current generation EVs at max speed, or one 200 mile BEV at full speed (with some power left for a second car when the first charges slower – when nearing 80% charge or so).

    The 200 miles should mean about 50 kWh (that’s about what is speculated for the Model III, right?).
    If the chemistry allows for an 0-80% charge in 30 min, then it would need 40 kWh in half an hour, which would mean an 80 kW of power for the charger, if the charge was at constant power, which is not. So, since at lower charge levels it will charge faster, I’d guess 100 kW are more or less what is needed (for the earlier phase of the charging).

    Bottom line: please stop installing 50 kW CCS (or multiple standard) chargers. Install ONLY 100 kW ones, with two plugs (extremely useful also for current gen EVs, to reduce “charge anxiety”, by allowing two EVs to charge at once at max power). Three plugs would not harm… but that might be expecting too much…

    1. Spec9 says:

      Well . . . I’m sure 100KW ones are very expensive. Right now it seems we are lucky if they install any DC fastchargers.

  16. pjwood says:

    Figure >$10,000 check to LG, for each one:

    1. GM, Caddy/Buick. Even at ~$180/kwh, this won’t price any lower than ~40k, when in a car.

    2. BMW i9? Heavy enough, that it becomes ~60kwh, plus REx. Their competition is their neighbors, and they know they lead.

    3. China, because their commitment, and market, is simply bigger.

  17. Mikael says:

    If it’s GM then what kind of model are you expecting?

    I can’t imagine that it is one of the smaller or cheaper models like if you would have made it from a Cruze body or similar.

    I would put my bet on an all electric XC90. It has the size, price and capacity to pull of a 200-mile EV.

    It would makes sense also when looking at the electrification aspect. By 2016/17 all their models are electrified so it’s time for a pure EV to add to that.

    1. lewl says:

      Equinox (and family)
      Isn’t the new platform supposed to cover many models?
      Build from the start to accommodate batteries, could easily work for anything on that platform.

      1. Mikael says:

        Could that one sell if it got a $50-60k price tag?

        It’s much more realistic then a Cruze or so at least 😛

        1. Acevolt says:

          For $45K a Cadillac version would probably sell well.

  18. MichaelB says:

    It is next gen Audi Q7

  19. Ellison says:

    ..sounds like GM.

  20. Bloggin says:

    Next gen Focus is due in 2016 as MY2017.

    It’s not hard to connect the dots here….

    1. Mikael says:

      Who would pay the price needed for the Focus to be a 200 mile EV? There are pure compliance cars selling in bigger numbers.

      1. Bloggin says:

        I think you are right…

        As of MY2015 LG Chem won’t build packs for the Focus Electric any longer, they will just supply the battery cells.

        It’s expected Ford is going with Tesla Packs for 200+ mile EVs, or build their own. And Ford will continue to build their own sub 100 mile packs for hybrids and plug-in hybrids using the same Panasonic cells that Tesla uses.

        But it is anticipated that the new 200 mile EVs (with faster onboard chargers) will be capable of charging at the Superchargers for a price.

        At 200 EV miles, the shift begins….

        Like with current 200+ mile EV Tesla owners, over 80% of their charging is at home(with the majority of Supercharger charging done just because it’s Free and fun to try), in the garage overnight. And with 200 EV miles, there really is no need to charge up during the day for over 90% of commuters.

        1. Jesse Gurr says:

          Any documentation for those baseless claims?

          1. TomArt says:

            The numbers are out there for all to see, and I think Bloggin’s numbers are actually low. As I recall, about 90% of charging for Tesla owners is at home.

          2. Anon says:

            Ignore bloggin… he (or she?) likes to imagine lots of things. Especially about Ford. LG Chem NEVER built complete packs for Focus, and nothing about the pack assembly or suppliers changed for 2015. Ford can’t switch to Tesla packs for next gen either, though maybe further out. Supercharging capability is a daydream. A nice daydream, but not happening, at least not anytime soon if ever. Totally right about most charging happening at home, though.

  21. poupou33 says:

    A 33 Kwh battery pack for Zoe should be enough for such a range (NEDC of course). In real life it will be ~ 250 km.

  22. mrenergyczar says:

    It’s for a GM CUV. No wonder they never announced a plug-in hybrid CUV…..

  23. Spec9 says:

    Here is the real interesting question . . . if someone releases a 200 mile capable EV, will they do a deal and make it Tesla supercharger capable?

    1. TomArt says:

      They would have to, since no other charger is capable of a reasonable charging time, and there is no talk that I’m aware of to improve existing chargers.

  24. krona2k says:

    GM for their moonshot EV I reckon.

  25. Anthony says:

    Its likely to be GM. It seems more in their ethos – Ford is taking a two pronged approach: doing what it has to for compliance (Focus EV), as well as doing what the affordable technology is allowing it to provide (hybrids and ~20 mile range PHEVs).

    So if GM makes a 200 mile EV, will it be a Chevy or a Cadillac? If the pack is 60kWh (which is what I’m expecting), then the pack alone would cost at least $12,000 at $200/kWh, and I think I’m being generous to LG Chem and GM with that price. A more realistic price is probably $250-300/kWh. By the time you actually build the car around the pack, its likely 30K for the base trim for a mid-sized sedan. 35K if you want it to be a small SUV/CUV (Equinox).

  26. qwerty says:

    It’s going to be Hyundai!
    lol

    1. Jouni Valkonen says:

      Not Hyundai as Hyundai is specialized on fuel cell tech. But new longer ranged Kia Soul is certainly possibility.

  27. Jouni Valkonen says:

    I would still think that the only possible canditate is Tesla, because other US car companies do not have ambitions to bring 200 mile ranged EV on market by 2016.

    From Global perspective, BMW i5 is perhaps possible, but BMW probably does not know if they go for plug-in hybrid or EV at this point, so it is improbable that they can bring it on markets by 2016. Also Nissan Infiniti EV has probably same schedule as with i5.

    Tesla is still battery supply limited and Panasonic just can’t supply enough batteries. And the ramp up of Gigafactory is too slow. By 2020, Tesla has demand at least three gigafactory worth of batteries. Therefore if LG Chem can supply Tesla with high enough energy density, cheap enough and reliable enough batteries, Tesla will gladly take what ever LG can produce.

    1. qwerty says:

      “I would still think that the only possible canditate is Tesla, because other US car companies do not have ambitions to bring 200 mile ranged EV on market by 2016. ”

      That should bump Tesla out then. They don’t intend to have the 200 mile EV out till 2017.

      1. Jouni Valkonen says:

        No, Tesla III is scheduled for release in late 2016. This schedule may of course face delays, but still it is scheduled for 2016.

    2. evnow says:

      Infiniti EV is confirmed for 2016 (that too before March).

  28. evnow says:

    If it is indeed for a US OEM, it has to be GM. No doubt.

    I’ve been saying, we’ll have in 2017
    Leaf $30k 150 mile range
    Infiniti $35k 200 mile range
    Model III $35k 200 mile range

    We’ve to add

    GM $??k 200 mile range

    It would be funny if it was a Cadillac priced at $60k.

  29. ModernMarvelFan says:

    GM is the most logical due to the new D2RXX platform and recent switching over of all GM plugin cars to LG Chem. So the working relationship is there.

    Also, GM is the one that recently announced additional investment into its plant for future EVs. That happens to match the time frame of the 200 miles battery annoucement.

    Lastly, GM has been saying this 200 miles BEV on and off for the last few years (beside Tesla). So, it is natural that GM would back it up with a car…

  30. scott franco says:

    Mr. Green in the dining room with the rope.

  31. Johnny GT says:

    I kind of wonder if GM will release a 200 mile midsize car at the same time they go nationwide with the Spark.
    Compact, Midsize, and *hopefully* shortly an SUV…They’d have it all.

    1. The only “nationwide” that GM will do is in model year 2018 when they are required to sell Zero Emission Vehicles in the following states:

      CARB-ZEV “coalition” states – California, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont

  32. Nobody guessed Toyota. No, it’s not “US” by some measures, but the Rav4 EV was entirely a California car built in Canada.

    Allegedly, Tesla turned Toyota down for the next battery car that Toyota wanted, so it would make sense (and I know a very long shot based on their vocal anti-EV rhetoric) for Toyota to have something… just in case that hydrogen thing doesn’t work out.

  33. zoe-driver says:

    Hi,

    ZOE is going to get that upgrade. The battery is rented so you just get it as part of the rental.

    Cool.

    Today my ZOE has 26,5 kWh. I expect 50% plus almost 40 kWh.