EVgo Reveals the 10 Most Charged Up Cities in the US. 950th Charger Installed

4 weeks ago by Mark Kane 61

EVgo Partners with PSE&G to Open Its 950th U.S. Fast Charger at Molly Pitcher Service Area in New Jersey

EVgo has revealed an interesting list of the 10 so-called “most charged up cities in the U.S.”, which in this case means the cities with highest number of charging sessions registered.

EVgo Reveals the 10 Most Charged Up Cities in the U.S. – August 2017

8 out of 10 top EVgo markets are in California, which is not strange as California is home to most of the 950 installed DC fast chargers (and mostly for legal reasons we won’t get into here/now).

The 950th charger (in fact two at once) was installed with Public Service Electric and Gas Co. (PSE&G) in New Jersey.

The top city for EVgo is San Diego with more than 6,000 sessions in an average month, with more than 3,000 hours spent charging, and some 455,400 average powered up.

When we look into the numbers, we found that EVgo assumes 30 minutes per session, and 75 miles per (full) session.

The company also revealed that nationwide chargers provide enough electricity for an average of 3,084,708 miles traveled each month. The top 10 markets, when combined, stand for 1,807,800 miles, which is some 59% of the total.

That also brings us to the conclusion that the total number of sessions is more than 41,100, and with 950 DC fast chargers (in over 600 locations), they are active roughly 43 times a month (or three times every second day).

“EVgo supports all public charging standards with the fastest-available public charging. Its DC Fast chargers provide approximately 150 miles of range per hour at a charging rate of 50kW. In comparison to other EV charging options, such as wall outlets (six miles of range per hour) and Level 2 (12-24 miles of range per hour), DC Fast is one of the fastest charging methods available today. This charging rate enables a single site to serves dozens of users per day.

When all of the top cities are combined, EVgo powers close to 25,000 charge sessions per month, which equates to 12,052 hours or 502 days. The Bay Area alone contributes 14,000 sessions or 7,066 hours. In an average week, EVgo charges up to 711,000 miles and saves 29,000 gallons of gasoline. Just one 30 minute charging session at an EVgo DC Fast Charge station saves 24.5 gallons of gas. In turn, EVgo charges an average of 3,084,708 miles nationwide each month, which is almost seven trips to the moon.

When it comes to charge sessions per capita, Cupertino, Berkley and Fremont lead the charge in that respective order. Cupertino has an impressive 35 sessions per one thousand residents utilizing EVgo DC Fast chargers, compared to the average charge sessions per one thousand residents of the overall top cities, which is slightly over 10.”

Terry O’Day, Vice President of Product Strategy and Market Development at EVgo said:

“Utilization of EVgo’s chargers is growing everywhere across the nation. As a single city, San Diego really stands out.  Per capita, the residents of Fremont are really charging. EVgo has the most chargers in the Bay Area, and with six cities in the top 10 utilization rankings, it is contributing greatly to the number of sessions per month. We’re currently seeing the number of charge sessions rise every month and look forward to the continued growth of the EV market.”

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61 responses to "EVgo Reveals the 10 Most Charged Up Cities in the US. 950th Charger Installed"

  1. DJ says:

    Boom #1! America’s Finest City is also America’s Most Charged City (although a little bit less since the Chargers left but let’s be honest they always sucked or choked so good riddance).

    Hence the reason why I don’t see a need to pay extra for a Super Charging network I wouldn’t ever need 😀

    1. Nick says:

      Also, I never use my seat belt, fire extinguisher or spare tire. Why all the extra charges. 😀

    2. Asak says:

      Yeah, it looks like the Chargers really missed the boat. L.A.s charging numbers are pretty pathetic.

  2. Vexar says:

    Uh… isn’t this more about what EVgo has deployed? I’d care more about Chargepoint statistics, where I live. I was at a movie last night and used opportunity charging. I’ve switched grocery stores because they have EV charging. It’s not like I get more than 1-2 kWh during a milk run, but it is so rewarding to say “no, no gas saver card, but thanks for the free electricity for my EV!”

    1. ffbj says:

      Sure, it paid for the trip. Maybe more grocery stores will start putting them in, though they are all so broke, since grocery is such a low margin business, and Amazon is coming.

      1. (⌐■_■) Trollnonymous says:

        There was a Safeway grocery store that had 6 120vac sockets in their parking lot for EV charging.
        They have since got vandalized de-energized and eventually sealed up.

      2. menorman says:

        As long as they stick to L2, they should be fine. A couple pairs of them shouldn’t cost too much to install or keep going (unless they get vandalized a lot), but could easily help people switch stores.

    2. ziv says:

      Vexar, I used to shop at a grocery store that was slightly out of my way due to their having 2 GE chargers. I let the manager know that the chargers were why I was shopping there.
      6 months ago the grocery store started a renovation process and the chargers have been down ever since. I let the manager know that I was shopping there less but he can’t get the money funded to repair them. Still supportive of him, but I do let him know that he is losing business.
      And I drive a Volt so I really don’t need the juice, but I figure I want to support the team. Funny how 20 cents worth of electricity will convince me to drive 2 miles out of my way for groceries.

  3. speculawyer says:

    6/10 are Northern California! Silicon Valley eats its own dogfood.

  4. Mike I. says:

    Now that they’ve raised the price to $20/mo + $0.20/minute they may actually make it into the black. I also wonder how many people that were on No-Charge-To-Charge plans have actually continued to pay for routine fast charging after their manufacturer sponsored free charging expired.

    1. Bill Howland says:

      For places with high electric rates such as SD, 20 cents a minute sounds pretty fair – as long as you own a car that can take the 50 kw rate for a fair amount of time.

      Bolts might only want to charge until they start tapering since hanging on gets more and more expensive, which I’m sure EVGO is just fine with.

      1. unlucky says:

        Or they may want to charge until they get enough range to go where they are going.

        That’s one significant use of these chargers, right? To actually get somewhere you couldn’t reach with the base 238 mile range.

        I’m going on a trip soon and I’ll be charging to 70 to 80% every time on evGO chargers. Even though the charge rate will drop to 25kW at 70%. Why? Because I need to get where I’m going.

    2. TimE says:

      No, at that kind of rate structure they are going to start losing money and business.

      Charging too much for a charge session will deter people from using the public charging further. Their $20 monthly plus $0.20 per minute DCFC is absurd – that’s $6 for a 30 minute sessions which with a 24 KWh Leaf might get 65 miles range, or with a 30 KWh Leaf maybe 80 miles. If considering $3 a gallon gas that’s similar to 32 to 40 MPG. Doing less than 5 DCFC sessions a month then it doesn’t make sense to pay the $20 a month, but you get hit with a $5 session fee each time – so that makes it $11 for 30 minutes – or similar in cost to driving an 18 to 21 MPG gas car at $3 a gallon.

      Their costs are in the equipment, and the utility demand charges (which my guess is probably $350 a month for the demand charge based on 50KW) – their KWh cost is probably in the 3 to 5 cent range at most locations. So incrementally a 30 KWh charge session costs them $1.50 on the higher end. The $350 demand charge is more or less static whether 1 car or 1500 cars charge per month.

      So, raising prices will likely reduce the number of charge sessions, but leave them covering the same fixed costs. Top it off, these crazy prices will only serve to slow the EV movement.

      I in no way an saying charging should be free, or at no markup, but when it costs as much as driving a 20 MPG gas car when gas prices are higher than they are now, they are intentionally trying to slow EV adoption.

      I primarily charge at home, and have been lucky enough to have a Nissan NC2C card that expires soon. I don’t abuse the free charging – I use it when I need it, and primarily charge at home. Assuming infrastructure was better, I’d love to drive my Leaf on longer trips, but these prices make me wonder if it’s worth it.

      Tesla seems to be the only ones with a good charging price model. Why can’t others follow their lead?

  5. stimpacker says:

    Useless network.

    “Assume 75 miles per session” – that’s nuts, charge tapering, especially on 24kWh Leafs start ~ 60-70% SOC.

    “50kW charging rate” – that’s also nuts. The charge current tops out at 100A. So at best it’s around 38-40kW actual. No BEV can take 500V to get to 50kW.

    Who’s gonna be stupid or green enough to pay for it? $11 for a 30min session without 1-year plan. Best case without charge tapering is around 18kWh or good for ~ 72miles.

    So you will have to wait your turn (as SparkEV can attest to all the congestion from Nissan/BMW free charge programs) and then wait a further 30mins and pay $11 for the equivalent of 3 gallons of gas.

    Waay to painful.

    1. SparkEV says:

      ABB units are 125A, not 100A. Most eVgo are ABB while few new ones are 100A EVPump units.

      SparkEV is about 48kW at 80%, so it isn’t bad as long as there’s no Bolt with 1hr+ of waiting or two or three free charging EV (Leaf/i3) that always take full 30 minutes.

      1. SJC says:

        Like I said DWELL is the issue, 5 minutes for gas, 1 hour + for EV.

    2. CCIE says:

      If it’s your only option besides a tow, you’ll pay.

      But I agree that the economics an uncertainty of availability are problematic.

      On the plus side, EVGo does a decent job of maintaining their units. ChargePoint doesn’t own there units, so they remain broken for extended periods.

    3. speculawyer says:

      We are in early days. Personally, I’ve loved lots of Level 2 chargers that have helped me make relatively long trips in a short range EV.

      And, yes, Chademo & SAE-CCS are too slow right now at 50KW. But that’s better than nothing and it will improve.

      It’s just a matter of time before the other automakers realize that they need to get the standardized charging network up to par so they can compete with Tesla. They will get there eventually….but they are a bit lame now.

    4. unlucky says:

      There are 125A chargers out there and you can get 90 miles in 30 minutes on a Bolt using one. Maybe just a hair more.

      You’d have to start at no more than 15% charged (36 miles remaining) to accomplish that though, since the car is going to drop its charge rate to 100A (and only 75 miles per 30 minutes) at about 53% charged (126 miles remaining).

  6. Francois says:

    “Just one 30 minute charging session at an EVgo DC Fast Charge station saves 24.5 gallons of gas”

    What kind of car drives at 24.5gallons / 75 miles !?

    1. Tom says:

      Yeah that’s ludicrous. That previous sentence says: “In an average week, EVgo charges up to 711,000 miles and saves 29,000 gallons of gasoline” which if you divide one into the other to get mpg it works out to 24.5 mpg. So their assumed 24.5 is really an assumed grand average of a typical vehicle mpg average of 24.5 mpg. Which of course has exactly nothing to do with the sentence you quoted which is just a loony inaccurate sentence.

      1. mx says:

        Also, NOT on the best highways. There’s actually NONE on the Atlantic City Expressway. The main from from the Philadelphia Region to the New Jersey Shorepoints.
        And 90% of Jersey shore towns still don’t have even 1 high speed CCS charger.

        Sure, you could park in a library, and use L2 for 3 hours and get maybe 20 miles per hour of charge. They must be promoting literacy with their changing program.

  7. bro1999 says:

    That VA station is an anomaly. Pretty sure it’s the one that was taken over by DC cabbies abusing the free charge cards handed out by Nissan and Kia for the Leaf and Soul EV.

    1. Ziv says:

      You are right Bro. Every time I go by there two of the spots are taken by red Leaf Electric Taxis. I think there is one other stall but it isn’t a fast charger, just a 12 amp J1772.

  8. SparkEV says:

    San Diego has over triple the charge sessions / time of LA, yet vast majority of chargers since 2015 were put into LA area? No wonder EV experience is horrible in San Diego.

    But it shows few things:

    1. San Diegans love EV.

    2. Many are so cheap that they’d waste 30 minutes at DCFC for free charging.

    3. Having rideshare drives with slowest charging EV in the world (Bolt) destroys charging infrastructure.

    1. Tom says:

      I know you are always mentioning San Diego and the waits and whatnot. But nationally the math works out to only 12 hours per station per month. Less than 1 half our session per charger per day. Obviously then your take is much of the congestion is in San Diego? I think part of your point on congestion is that there becomes massive inefficiencies in things like free charging. Overall it should be noted that there is exactly NO reasonable economic model at this time for a for profit version. I would assume any charger that is in a metro area has a short window where there’s a backlog and then hours sitting empty. This is different than ‘truck stop’ interstate things where people are trekking cross country. This basic issue is exacerbated by free charging if I understand you correctly. However it is obvious that whatever charge there is to charge is actually a drop in the bucket of the actual cost of deploying fast chargers. I see now profitable means under any circumstance to deliver high speed DC charging at a profit in anywhere close to what would amount to a competitive price against gasoline. I see this as still an unsolved topic. It would seem Tesla’s ‘screw it, it’s sunk cost’ is probably the only real way to think of it.

      BUT. I think that vehicles like the Bolt, when in the hands of private ownership will mostly just charge at home. I DO NOT see wide use of public charging for them. Similarly I think that the Prius Prime crowd will fall into that same category. Finding some charger in a parking lot just not that important and they can still deliver 70% of miles on EV. And as far as all the car share/Uber/Maven people? I see no way around the organizations doing that having dedicated parking lot spaces and chargers. A ‘pod’ of vehicles at lots that are dedicated leased or owned by said service.

      Just my opinion. I think I’m still agreeing with you but in a longer winded fashion that says ‘yeah but mostly chargers still go unused which makes them heinously expensive even though they have clogged up periods’.

      1. unlucky says:

        San Diego seems to have about 30 evGO DCFCs. Many of those are CHAdeMO only though.

        But at 3,000 hours charging per month thats 3.3 charging hours per charger per day.

        It would seem like it would be pretty easy to find a DCFC as long as you aren’t at peak hours. Finding a CCS DCFC might be a little harder if the demand is overwhelmingly for CCS though.

        Cupertino has 8 evGO chargers. 1050 hours per month, 35 hours per day. That’s 4.4 charge hours per charger per day. Although do note that every evGO DCFC in Cupertino supports CCS.

        3.3 or 4.4 charge hours per day is starting to get rather significant. Even if I think it means it shouldn’t be too bad to get a charge off-hours, it also is a lot more charging than I figured any of these chargers did. I’m starting to believe you could make providing DCFC if your charger is in use 13-17% of the time!

        I wonder how much of this utilization is due to free charging. i.e. how much lower would utilization be if free charging was not available. I ask mainly because I think that charge-provider companies join programs like no-charge-to-charge because it helps them get utilization on their chargers up and amortize the costs some more. If we saw a point where they could make money off pay-charging only I would think they would drop the no-charge-to-charge participation.

        1. SparkEV says:

          CCS in San Diego is only about 15 locations.

          People have narrow window when they need to charge, such as commute hours. If it’s being used 3 or 4 hours a day, that means waiting is a guarantee.

          In my informal survey many months ago, free chargers were about 4 out of 5 (80%). When it comes to Bolt, it’s more like 12 out of 13 (92%).

          If free charging went away, we’d see 75% drop in charger usage (or 90% for Bolt). They’d need 3 to 4 times the number of EV keep the current level after free chargers go away. That means current usage including free chargers would have to be about 12 to 16 hours. People will stop using EV if that happened.

          Blink started with offering free charging, then started billing (I think $1/hr initially). People stayed away in drove, and look where they are now. Same is going to happen with eVgo when free chargers are discontinued. This is why I’m pessimistic about CCS/Chademo.

          1. unlucky says:

            You now talk about need to charge. I need to charge if I drive in from out of town. When you talk about the people charging in San Diego you say they are opportunity charging. Charging to 100% when they start at 75%, etc. You routinely measure charging in minutes instead of miles (I do the opposite).

            If the problem really is people driving short range vehicles like SparkEVs to commute and thus they must charge at commute times because they can’t get there otherwise, then people getting Bolts would be *solving* charging problems, not creating them. People would get Bolts and then wouldn’t need to charge away from home at all.

            No, you suggest that people are opportunity charging because it is free, not out of necessity. For example, if a Maven driver leases a Bolt for a week (but normally drives an ICE) then they don’t have an EVSE to charge in their garage or at work and thus use DCFC, even past where it is reasonably fast like 70%.

            If a person is using DCFC instead of charging at home not because they have a commute longer than their car range then they can simply take the car out later in the evening and get a charge. They don’t have to line up at peak times.

            I’m not nearly as pessimistic as you about CCS/CHAdeMO. If a charger is on a highway between cities then its primary use is going to be people passing through. Free charging doesn’t matter that much to people who are charging out of necessity to get places. And it is the chargers between cities that enable long-distance driving.

            If you have a long-range EV and a place to charge (home, work) then you don’t care about the DCFCs near you. If I used a DCFC within 100 miles of my house it’d be once a year at most. If you live in San Diego and had a Bolt and a place to charge then you wouldn’t care if all the DCFCs in San Diego were broken or clogged. You’d be more upset if the ones in LA were unusable.

            There’s a lot still to do on charging infrastructure. Making urban DCFC may largely involve making it not free and making more AC charging available. Maybe that streetlamp charging idea is the key to making this less of a mess.

            1. SparkEV says:

              When you wait for EV to charge, you’re waiting in time, not in miles. EV can be adding 1000 miles an hour but if it’s trying to get to billion miles you will wait million hours. This is what’s happening with most Bolts in San Diego: trying to charge to 240 miles, but only able to muster 40 miles per hour (most are way over 50% and severely tapered).

              Even for long trips, you don’t always charge at middle of nowhere interstate. For SD-LA trip round, it’s about 250 miles. Sure, you can charge in the middle when you have 150 miles left, but that’s not what typical people do (not talking about rideshare drivers). They charge when it’s down to less than 50. That’s in the city where it’s clogged with bunch of free chargers with Bolt being the slowest charging of all due to taper.

              Opportunity charging with DCFC would go away completely if not for free chargers. When the car has 80%+ (or 50%+ for Bolt), and it’s billed by time, they would avoid it if it has enough range to destination. This is why you almost never see SparkEV, eGolf, etc. at DCFC; because we have to pay, we only use what we need, not “opportunity charging”.

              As for your optimism, again, look to Blink, because they followed the same model. If you need further proof, see how often you encounter SparkEV and eGolf, because that will be the usage pattern if everyone has to pay. I have only seen two other SparkEV and one eGolf at DCFC in 2.5 year that I’ve had SparkEV.

              1. unlucky says:

                No. I’m not waiting in time. I’m waiting in miles.

                As I indicated before, I will be driving a long distance trip soon. And I will need to charge to 70% or higher. When I do this I will be waiting in miles. I will charge until I have enough range and then leave. Look at it this way, if I in a Bolt and you in a SparkEV drive to LA from San Diego, do we wait the same amount of time charging? I’m going to start off full. I’m not going to stop at all. That’s because we’re waiting in miles. If I have more miles to start, I’m not going to charge as long.

                People opportunity charging are waiting in time.

                On any trip where you are away from home you may charge in the city. you can’t charge at home, right? But I’m not going to charge in MY city. If I’m driving from SD to LA then I’m not going to charge in SD before I leave and I’m not going to charge in SD when I get back because I can just charge at home. So I’m going to charge on I-5 on the return to SD. And because I’m charging *in miles*, not time, I’m only going to add what I need to get home. I’m not going to waste a half hour when I can charge cheaper at home and without having to sit in the car while it happens. I’m not going to fast charge in the city because I don’t want to wait at a charger that’s more likely to be in use.

                I can add the 30 miles I need in 1.3 hours on an AC charger. I’ll either destination charge in LA or stop for a 10 minute top up on I-5 on the way back.

                Forget Blink. They had no idea what they were doing. They lost money while they were giving away charging and then they couldn’t make a business of it when they started charging money because, among other things, people were vandalizing their chargers and making them inoperative. And they messed up their AC chargers too. And there were very few EVs at the time. With more long range EVs now there will be more people driving long trips where they need to DCFC.

                And 40 miles an hour? That’s 10kW. I think you need to think again. A Bolt is still charging more than 40 miles an hour when it is at 90%. It only starts to approach that at 95%. Maybe you meant 40 miles per half hour?

                1. SparkEV says:

                  You’re talking about charging, not waiting to charge. If you’re already plugged in, you can go off and do things. That’s not waiting.

                  But if you’re waiting for another car, you cannot simply walk off. Another will come and take you spot if the car already plugged in happen to leave early (which happened to me). You are always waiting in time, not in miles.

                  For distance driving, you’re talking about living in LA, which has less than 1/4 the San Diego usage. Do the math as if you’re living in SD; you will be charging at SD if you’re coming back from 250 miles trip to LA, unless you charge after 150 miles in LA.

                  As for 40 MPH, you really should experience Bolt chargers in San Diego. Not all of them are so awful when charging, but they are something else. And if you’re unlucky like me, you will see Bolt or two at every DCFC.

                  1. unlucky says:

                    I’m talking about waiting. I’m talking about waiting while charging and I’m talking about waiting before charging. Both are dependent on the person ahead of you getting the miles they need. If the person ahead of you needs fewer miles they are going to charge for less time.

                    No, I’m not talking about walking away when DC charging or waiting to DC charge.

                    I DID do the math as if I were in San Diego! And I explained it well. If I am in SD and I need to drive to LA and back I have no need to charge in SD. I don’t have need to charge in SD before I leave and I don’t need to charge when I get back because I’m home.

                    You did a poor job reading my post. Read it again. I spent a lot of time trying to explain to you that if you have a long-range EV and a place to charge locally (home, worK) you have really no use for the DCFCs in your own. So if you are in San Diego you wouldn’t care about DCFC congestion in SD, you’d care about the ones in LA!

                    As for 40MPH, you’re still wrong. Again, that’s 10kW and a Bolt charges at 10kW even at 99%. at 85% it’s at 25kW (100mph). At 90% it’s at 13kW, 52mph

                    You cannot spend any appreciable time in a Bolt charging at 40mph because it’s only the very tail end of the charge.

                    Honestly, I’m kind of tired of actually coming up with information and you just misinterpreting it or giving false answers.

                    http://www.mychevybolt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5766

                    There’s a graph. Use it yourself. You can see it’s above 40mph for the entire curve until right at shutoff.

                    Ultimately, I hope your problem is solved. I hope there is a better solution for urban charging. Heck, I would love if they just charged for DCFC. But in the end, more long-range EVs like Bolts will greatly improve the urban DCFC situation. Even with the Maven mess, it’ll at least get other people off the DCFCs. In the end it would at least get YOU off the DCFC so that you don’t care that it is clogged.

      2. Asak says:

        I really think the state should be funding the install of the chargers in conjunction with the utilities who ultimately stand to benefit the most from them.

        The current mess is an example of the misapplication of the free market. We have a dozen different charging companies, many of which it’s questionable whether they’ll actually be profitable. They have to be careful of getting over extended, so they can’t expand too rapidly.

        In the end even if they’re successful we’re going to have to carry around half a dozen different charging cards in our wallets. The whole thing is pretty ridiculous.

    2. unlucky says:

      I agree with you. It’s insane. San Diego has relatively few DCFCs.

      Even if you ignore that the metro areas in LA or SF Bay Area are broken into many small cities (witness Cupertino) and San Diego is less so, there are still rather few DCFCs in the San Diego area.

      I didn’t see anything about it saying that the Bolt (which charges faster than your car) ruins infrastructure. The problem, again, is behaviors. If they were all LEAFs they still would have double the charging sessions per station as other places. You reference people being cheapskates and being willing to pay for charing with their time (waiting). That seems like the biggest part of the problem.

      EVs can charge at home. That reduces demand for public charging. That makes it harder to break even on public charging and thus reduces public charging infrastructure.

      This is more of your problem than what car people own.

      Odd you say above you’d be fine with SparkEV drivers charging when already 80% full but you complain about Bolt drivers for charging when already mostly full. Very odd.

      1. SparkEV says:

        I have never encountered SparkEV charging much beyond 80%. But let’s assume there is one who plugged in at 80%. It will take about 10 minutes to reach 100%.

        If Bolt plugs in at 80%, which occurred to me few times, it will take close to an hour to reach 100%. And they always try to get to 100% if starting charge is so high.

        Indeed, I just give up and leave (or go shopping) when I see Bolt at 80%+ and less than 5 minutes into charging session, because it’ll be hour or more of waiting. This is how few Bolts destroy the charging infrastructure with the slowest charging (taking longest time) among any EV. Even Leaf would only take 30 minutes to get to 100% if plugged in at 80%.

  9. Rightofthepeople says:

    Hurray for Atlanta, showing up at #9 despite the fact that Georgia eliminated the (very generous) EV tax credit over 2 years ago. Many states with credits like NY, CO and TX do not have cities on this list.

    New theme: Atlanta, proving that red states love EVs too!

    Oh come on my progressive friends, show us some love!

    1. vdiv says:

      You know, there are some conservative folks that love EVs, drive them all over and are 100% electric, multiple electrics, no ICE. There are also many progressive folks that stubbornly refuse to drive electric.

      Don’t paint them red or blue or green or whathaveyou, EVs are apolitical.

      Also Atlanta is a blue state :p

      1. CCIE says:

        +1. There are lots of reasons drive EVs. It’s not all tree huggers.

        I like the technology and having an alternative if gasoline supply ever becomes an issue.

        1. Rightofthepeople says:

          Oh believe me I know, I’m in the same boat. Actually economics drove me to try EVs but as I learned more about them my view has evolved to consider energy independence (so national security) as my primary driver for EV adoption. Economic and environmental benefits are icing on the cake.

          I was joking this time last year that I’m a conservative who drives an EV and doesn’t like Trump, so I have no friends! Now some of my conservative friends are starting to agree with me on both issues. What a difference a year makes.

          1. SparkEV says:

            “(so national security) as my primary driver for EV adoption”

            This shouldn’t be the case. If EVs are crap like the time between 2005 and 2009 (post EV1, pre Tesla), you shouldn’t drive it no matter how important you feel about national security. The only reason for EV (or anything) is for your rational self interest. Everything else, including national security and the environment, is just bonus.

            Unfortunately, EVs are often “justified” with all kinds of reasons, primarily climate change. This is why many on the right have poor view of EV. That has to change. EVs are great just for being EV, no excuses needed, and SparkEV certainly makes that statement. Unfortunately, same can’t be said about DCFC clogging with all the free chargers.

            1. unlucky says:

              National security is in my rational self interest.

              If we can’t secure the country then anything you have can be taken from you by a foreign force.

              If you take security for granted how can you say you’re acting rationally?

              1. SparkEV says:

                You driving EV makes no difference to national security. Even if the entire US drove EV, it would make very little difference to national security.

                Most people drive cars, because the car they choose is a great car (for them), and no other reason. This is the only argument to be made with cars, EV or gasser.

                1. unlucky says:

                  It would make a huge difference to national security if everyone drove EVs. We send money overseas to support regimes that produce terrorists.

                  Your idea about the only argument is dead wrong. What good is a great toy if you’re dead? Security comes first and using domestic electricity for cars instead of supporting regimes overseas for oil security is a big step. We then could use the oil we have of our own for our own uses that don’t work well on electricity (shipping, planes, maybe heavy trucks).

  10. mx says:

    The poor planning and implementation just shows, Tesla has won. The other auto companies only have a slow drawdown to Bankruptcy in their future.

    1. Asak says:

      The other companies hardly care about charging infrastructure right now because EVs are only 1% of their sales (less in a lot of cases).

  11. Jeffrey Songster says:

    While we charge our LEAFs at home about 90% of the time we love having the range extending dc fast charge CHAdeMo chargers available for those 15 min to get home boosts. I do get irritated when other drivers try to get to 100% on dc fast… Obviously they don’t get tapering and charge rates.

  12. QCO says:

    Looks like public charging is likely to remain an open issue for some time, regardless of California progress.

    Interestingly ICE cars had similar issues in the early days. You had to buy tins of gasoline and put it in the tank yourself. And not all fuels were compatible with all cars.

    Standardisation is key, and for better or worse more industry players have embraced the SAE standard than anything else. Granted Tesla has a massive head start and technical superiority, but unless a major manufacturer breaks ranks and embraces Tesla’s standard, it will eventually become the Betamax of charging.

    If Tesla continues to significantly out sell other Manufacturers, then someone certainly could break ranks. But unfortunately competitive standardisation history suggests otherwise.

  13. bro1999 says:

    FYI, those new stations on the NJTP are out of commission currently, according to Plugshare. =\

    1. John C says:

      Indeed.

      These chargers have really made it almost painless to drive from Philly to NYC in a Gen 1 EV. (2.5 hrs versus 2 hrs in an ICE)

      Previously, it was a few 24 kW (max) DCFCs in bad locations. And it would take closer to 4 hours to hop from one to another.

      Don’t know why these TWO stations have both been down for WEEKS, while they are issuing a press release for them!

      1. bro1999 says:

        I used stations at both locations last month. Without those EVgo stations, my trip to CT and back in the Bolt would have been MUCH more painful! Good thing my trip was not this month.

        1. CCIE says:

          I’m not sure where you were coming from. But, there is a free 50kw chargepoint double-unit at a Walmart in NJ (thanks Walmart!). I used it last year when I drove my Spark from MD to CT.

          Free DCFC is a very bad idea. But, I’m damn sure going to take advantage of it while it lasts!

  14. Mister G says:

    The I-4 corridor between Tampa and Orlando needs more fast charging stations.

    1. SparkEV says:

      I-5 between San Diego and LA could use more DCFC. There’s a rest stop right in between which is perfect to put like dozen DCFC. Since the rest stop is out of the city, it’s not likely to get clogged with free chargers, instead used primarily for long distance trip between SD and LA and beyond. Not sure why rest stops don’t have them.

      1. unlucky says:

        Rest stops out in the middle of nowhere put in in the early days of the Interstate system generally have very little electrical service. They couldn’t install a DCFC.

        The updates would be costly to add the service. Until EVs are more popular it’ll be postponed.

        1. SparkEV says:

          For SD-LA, they have power lines nearby going to SD and marine base from San Onofre nuclear power plant, so it wouldn’t cost much even if they had inadequate electricity.

          But even if it does cost a bit, rest stops would make great locations for DCFC: charge the car while taking the dog out for a walk is just perfect.

          1. unlucky says:

            You don’t just tap long-distance transmission lines. You have to put in a substation. It would easily $50,000 to put in the service, and that’s before the charger installs.

            Rest stops would make good locations for DCFC. But the problem is very few people own EVs right now. That amount of money won’t be spent while it only advantages 1% of the people. You’re going to have to wait a bit longer until EVs are more popular.

            Newer rest stops with more facilities tend to have better power service. We could see DCFCs in those sooner.

            1. SparkEV says:

              Considering I’d like to see 10 DCFC units, each costing $50K, extra $50K to pull service is minor. If you saw all the clogging at north SD / south OC, it’s far more than just few who will benefit (among EV, that is). But if you’re talking about 1%, that’s true with all EV today.

              What would be nice is to take the units in south OC and North SD and put them at the rest stop. That will be about 8 units, and primarily used for long distance driving rather than locals getting free charge.

              Another thing I’m realizing is that clustering chargers make more sense then having one or two few miles apart. Tesla is doing it right, not sure if they knew or they just got lucky.

              1. unlucky says:

                Yes, all EV is 1% today. That’s what I’m talking about.

                You’re trying to get a lot of money for very few people. It’s a hard ask for a politician.

                Tesla partially got lucky. They used to put in only 2 or 3 chargers at a time.

                Moving units costs a lot of money. For now you’d just install more.

                You have to hope to get some of those VW stations in there I guess. I don’t expect you’ll see rest stops wired up soon. You’re more likely to see a station next to an In-n-Out than at a rest stop. For now.

      2. menorman says:

        Caltrans is working on it, but since they’re government-owned, don’t expect to see anything anytime soon, especially with the VW money coming into the picture.

  15. Tim Miser says:

    Using an EVGO charger, 30 minutes of 100 amp fast charge giving me 90 miles of range cost me $12.50 in my Bolt. Compared to 4 gallons of gas at 2.50/gal with ICE for same range costs $10. Meh… Have to stick with at home charging as much as possible.

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