Electric Volkswagen Budd.e Expected To Have 70 kWh Battery Pack, Up To 250 Miles Of EPA Range

1 year ago by Mark Kane 60

Volkswagen at the CES 2016: the focus is on networking and long-distance electromobility

Volkswagen at the CES 2016: the focus is on networking and long-distance electromobility

Volkswagen at the CES 2016: Teaser

Volkswagen at the CES 2016: Teaser

German Auto Bild released a few new details on the upcoming electric concept that Volkswagen will unveil at 2016 CES.

The Budd.e (that apparently is the name) could hit the market in 2018.

According to Auto Bild, we should expect rear sliding doors (FWD and AWD), 70 kWh of lithium-ion batteries and range of up to 500 km ( NEDC… much less in the real world).

If you check Auto Bild site, there’s an image of how Budd.e might look.

Source: Auto Bild

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60 responses to "Electric Volkswagen Budd.e Expected To Have 70 kWh Battery Pack, Up To 250 Miles Of EPA Range"

  1. R.S says:

    I have read the German article, pure speculation…

    1. PureElectric says:

      Always from VW and Audi!!!

  2. Robb Stark says:

    So they want to create confusion in some of the top EV markets,Scandinavia, where they had he weirdmobile Buddy EV?

    Only slightly less dumb than the Volt/Bolt.

    1. jamcl3 says:

      The Buddy is still available in Norway, and is a covered 4 wheel, motorcycle-class vehicle.

  3. Foob says:

    If it’s as aerodynamic as the speculative pictures, it might get 100 miles out of that 70kwh…

    1. notting says:

      What’s the EPA range of a Model X with 70kWh? Do you really think it’s that different? Maybe VW will use a more efficient motor?

      notting

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        A more efficient motor than Tesla is using, seriously?!? That is the absolute last place anybody could find to improve energy efficiency.

        If you learn more about modern EVs, you’ll learn that they use electric motors which are so efficient that there is very little room for improvement. You’ll also learn that Tesla is on the cutting edge of EV tech. There may still be room for improvement in the inverter and other power electronics; perhaps VW can learn something from Tesla in that area.

        * * * * *

        Sliding doors suggests a minivan. And with 70 kWh, it’s nice to see that EV makers other than Tesla are finally starting to use large battery packs. However, if this is just a concept, that’s not necessarily an indication they’ll put a battery pack into a production minivan that’s big enough to give it a good EV range.

        1. DonC says:

          Actually it’s not the motor per se. It’s the motor and the transmission. The high torque motor setup used by GM in the Spark EV, and most likely in the Bolt, is a big improvement over what Tesla is using. So there is room for improvement.

          1. ggpa says:

            Could you please elaborate on “high torque motor setup used by GM in the Spark EV, and most likely in the Bolt, is a big improvement over what Tesla is using”?

          2. Bill Howland says:

            Don’t worry about the naysayers DonC. you’re absolutely right. Tesla uses the most inefficient AC motor, due to the namesake but also because it is simple, and the efficiency is acceptible in a very high priced (over $100,000 on average) car.

            We’ve rehashed this so many times I don’t see why it needs to be, but yeah, I have 2 GEN 1 GM products, and their efficiency is to marvel at. I now find I’m using much less electricity to go the same distance electrically, and, unfortunately, since no longer having a tesla for long trips, I don’t use electricity at all for long trips so now my solar panel system is even more oversized.

            The only fault I can find with the GEN 1 voltec is that you must accelerate very slowly until about 20 mph to get reasonable motor efficiency. I would imagine this has been improved with the 2016 volt.

      2. Foob says:

        I was joking, but it does look like a rolling brick in the pictures…

  4. notting says:

    I read the German article. There’s one important detail missing here: It’s just a study what they’ll show at the CES. So what will really come out in 2018 is probably something very different (at least when talking about VW).

    notting

    1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      The article says “upcoming electric concept”. It’s just a concept car, at least at present. Nothing to get excited about.

      1. Forever green says:

        +1 Pushmi

      2. ffbj says:

        So its a concept of a concept?

      3. Three Electrics says:

        Some manufacturers announce concepts. Others call their concepts production cars, take deposits on them, and deliver them three years late. To each their own.

        1. MDEV says:

          Yes the same that cheat with software, perhaps the 70kw/h most be verified by independent lab tests facility;)

    2. DonC says:

      I think VW will build it because after the diesel cheating debacle it has to build it. Plus VW is not treating this like it would a “design language” concept. You don’t have a big name executive do a keynote speech and an unveiling for a concept that you don’t intend to move to production. FWIW there were many of the same “only a concept” comments when Bara introduced the Bolt concept and this year we’re seeing the production car.

      Given that production cars almost never look exactly like the concept, have to agree that the production version will be different. But that’s a given.

  5. Wow, lots of “Teslarians in denial” on this thread! True EV fans (which of course constitutes much of this excellent web site’s readership) will undoubtedly be thrilled by the introduction of roughly 25 different EVs with 200-mile+ range over the next 12-48 months. Teslarians on the other hand will continue to pretend it isn’t happening until one of those silent machines runs them right over, and even then in the ambulance on the way to the hospital will be insisting it had a fuel-injected V-8 hidden in it somewhere!

    1. Dan Hue says:

      Agreed. This rabid fanboyism is turning me off. I wonder if these people realize it works against their favorite brand, just because of the association?

      1. PVH says:

        Exactly, Tesla as a company is fine, however association in general public perception of this company with those talibans is armful. At least real talibans are far away.

    2. DonC says:

      Ha ha! Yes the Model 3 was here yesterday and the Bolt is a concept. But this is essentially a Tesla fanboy site so the bias is quite expected.

    3. Chris O says:

      Care to provide us with a list of that 25 200+ mile models you seem to believe will materialize, obliterate Tesla of course and make your short position pay off big time?

      BTW do you really think that posting trollish nonsense on green car websites will help your short position?

      1. ffbj says:

        If you are drowning you will clutch at straws.

      2. Mark B. Spiegel says:

        Sure, between now and late 2019 (i.e., as I said, the next 12-48 months) we will see the following 200mile+ EVs in production:

        GM Bolt
        Audi Q6 SUV + sedan (+ possible 2nd SUV)
        Porsche MissionE + SUV
        VW microbus + Golf + Phaeton
        Mercedes – 4 vehicles, as scooped this week
        BMW: i5 or i6 + 2nd gen i3
        Nissan: 2nd gen Leaf
        Aston Martin sedan
        Jaguar SUV
        Apple
        Faraday
        NextEV
        Hyundai Ioniq (2nd gen, prbly not the 2016)
        Ford/Google and/or 2019 (not 2017) Focus
        Volvo (yet unnamed)
        BAIC
        SAIC
        LeTV

        After you Teslarians are done calling most of them vaporware, feel free to email me (I’m easy to find) and I’ll be happy to send you source-links show real financial commitment from the various manufacturers. Battery capacity is certainly growing apace, with a big new commitment from Panasonic just last week for a 200k/yr Chinese factory and continual worldwide expansion from LG, SK Innovation plus numerous Chinese manufacturers.

        1. Anon says:

          You really don’t get it. Most of these are only going into production BECAUSE of Tesla’s success with their products. So, you are actually flattering Tesla by showing who they’ve motivated in the industry, to switch drivetrain technology.

          The real truth is, we Tesla fans, are BORED WAITING FOR OTHER AUTOMAKERS TO FINALLY CATCH UP to where Model S and X currently are! That’s the entire point of Tesla’s existence. TO motivate others to do the same– build and sell BEVs. Duh.

          We actually DREAM of having Tesla-level BEV competition and choice in the global marketplace. We do not fear it. It just hasn’t actually happened yet.

          So, you can list all the limited production vehicles, compliance, concepts or vaporware BEVs all you want. They’re not real until someone can buy them.

          1. Three Electrics says:

            No. These models are entering production due to policies enacted by the State of California and Europe, combined with advances in battery technology. It’s that simple. Even the LEAF, which has sold 200K copies, can’t take credit. No car manufacturer wants to lose as much money on an electric car as a Tesla did, and that is the reason Tesla was first to market, almost bankrupting itself in the process. Pioneers are the ones with arrows in their backs.

            1. Three Electrics says:

              Note that Tesla has, to date, lost about two billion dollars. That’s not capex, but unrecoverable cash. To date, the story of Tesla is that you can make cars that others won’t if you’re willing to lose money that others aren’t.

    4. John in AA says:

      I don’t follow. Most of the comments I’ve seen are pretty mild and based on past failure of VWAG to deliver EVs they’ve teased as concepts. There’s no need to be a fanboy of any other auto company in order to be annoyed by repeated failure to execute on VWAG’s part. In fact, I’d place a small bet that former VW fans are overrepresented — ain’t nobody disgruntled like a fan you’ve screwed one too many times.

      1. Rich says:

        +10
        VW is a lying, manipulating, polluting, cheating company that has been promising EVs for years with only compliance cars to show for it.

    5. El duque says:

      There is no such thing as “Teslarians in denial” just people who have seen concepts for years never happen and hopes and dreams of more competition and higher range EVs that haven’t appeared and good looking EVs that are rare to non existent. Tesla is the only one who’s gotten it right so far. I’m hopeful other manufacturers will get there but I’m tired of waiting and hearing about see useles concepts every week.

      1. JakeY says:

        Right. And VW group is the worse in terms of this. They have too many EV concepts to count and few to show for it. The most laughable was the electric Phaeton that they recently promised and cancelled in less than 2 months.

    6. Speculawyer says:

      “roughly 25 different EVs with 200-mile+ range over the next 12-48 month”

      What? We’ll be lucky if we get 2 new 200+ miles EVs in the next 2 years to add to the existing Teslas.

      1. Ambulator says:

        Ah, but he has cleverly extended his range to four years. I certainly hope we have that many offerings by then.

        1. JakeY says:

          Good on pointing that out that inconsistency. From his list, the only one with certainty to be released within 2 years (if ever) and be a 200+ mile EV is the Bolt.

  6. alex says:

    Mark B. Spiegel,

    Why would you deny Tesla makes excellent cars rather than promises them?

    1. Dan Hue says:

      Before they made excellent cars, they promised them too. Also, Tesla has not yet made a car (excellent or not) that most people (myself included) can afford. GM, Nissan, BMW, VW, and others have. Tesla has only *promised* to do one so far, though I’m sure they’ll deliver something great when that time comes.

    2. DonC says:

      Totally depends on whether an “excellent” car is also a reliable car. If yes then no. If no then yes.

    3. ffbj says:

      They have done both. In regards to Mark he is in river in Egypt. Or as we say ‘down south’ he is in denial.

  7. alex says:

    I will certainly be welcoming any good new electric car on the road. But so far they are on paper.

    1. Anon says:

      VW’s press releases seem designed to pretend that nasty DieselGate Scandal is looong behind them, and they’ve repented by now switching drivetrain technology to BEVs

      As soon as it’s over (couple years?), VW will likely go back to making money on diesels and hybrids.

      This is yet another VW concept ( in a very long line of concepts) that won’t see the dealer lots.

      1. ffbj says:

        VW is so, well, yesterday. Anyway I finally got your Buddy comment, when I saw that it what they were calling it. I imagine it will sell about as many.

        1. Anon says:

          “My Buddy” (dolls for boys) were actually popular in rhe US, back in the day. VW should tototally use that “My Buddy n’ me!” Jingle for a “BUDD.e” ad. That is, if they actually bring it to market. 😉

          1. ffbj says:

            Yeah, the jingle is cool, though the commercial is sort of creepy.

  8. Alan says:

    I wouldn’t be too hasty in shooting down VW for showing off what is obviously a concept car at this stage, make no mistake, they are on the ropes at the moment but as soon as they can source batteries at close to the touted $145 per kwh, they will be entering the EV market in a big way. They have no choice !

    Apart from their polluting engines, across the whole group they make very good cars.

    + the more participants in the EV market, the better for us all.

    1. ffbj says:

      I still think my analogy of a ‘jail-house’* conversion is apt, though some of those are actually real. Maybe VW’s is too, though the jury is still out.

      1. ffbj says:

        From the Urban Dictionary:
        Jailhouse conversion:
        *”A sudden shift in belief systems (usually finding Jesus, but also Allah and probably every other Deity) after a period of incarceration. Usually a ploy for leniency with the legal system. Oddly, given the separation of church and state that we’re supposed to have in this country, it does sometimes seem to have a positive effect when going to talk to the judge/parole board. Everyone from your local meth dealer to Manuel Noriega, Dictator of Panama have tried this one, making it one of the truly “oldest ones in the book”.”

  9. DonC says:

    Actually I love the design. Looks small enough to use in more congested areas but large enough to haul four people around. Nothing like a shoebox for cargo area!

    The Bolt will get here first but reports from at least one dealer are that there isn’t a lot of back seat room in that vehicle.

  10. Alaa says:

    How many will they make and by when? And where will they get the batteries from?

  11. goodbyegascar says:

    I am one of those diehard Tesla fanboys, and I am thrilled to see the prospect of the VW Budd.e.

    Let’s not forget that Tesla’s larger mission is to induce the global auto industry to go electric as soon as possible.

    Ultimately, the German auto companies may be sourcing their batteries from Tesla’s Gigafactory #4.

    1. PVH says:

      +1000.

  12. I am pretty sure Tesla will be really pleased to see VW making a decent punt at EV. GM look to be best bet at present. These guys have big distribution remember . We hope they will make in rhd as soon as possible . We could lease loads of cheaper 150 mile Lis cars .

  13. Speculawyer says:

    I wonder if they’ll have trademark problems with the Norwegian electric car company Buddy.

  14. Robb Stark says:

    GM has told suppliers to expect up to 30k Bolts per year.

    Less than 10% of Tesla Model 3 capacity.

    Mercedes is saying 4 long range BEV models for a total capacity of 80k units per year.

    What will Budd.e capacity be?

    1. PVH says:

      That is probably a trend by large car makers to underestimate EV’s demand. Just in November in all Europe VW group sold about 5200 EV/PHEV’s (against Tesla’s 1450). Rather good numbers despite not so good technology. It seems all those car makers have decided that 2017/2018 is the year that will see battery technology and prices meet profitability requirements for mass EV ‘s distribution. We can’t really prove them wrong unless we think commenting here in our spare time gives us more expertise than them.

  15. protomech says:

    “A more efficient motor than Tesla is using, seriously?!? That is the absolute last place anybody could find to improve energy efficiency.”

    Maybe not.

    As battery sizes increase, small improvements in efficiency have larger effects.

    Improving the motor from (say) 91% to 94% efficiency adds nearly as much range (3.3%) as upgrading the battery from 85 to 90 kWh (5.9%).

    Improving the resistance of the motor (or other power electronics) also reduces heat built up in those components – by 33% in the previous example – which may admittedly be more useful for racing than a commuting application.

  16. Mister G says:

    VW= Very Wacko

  17. Grady says:

    Looks like it might be too late for VW. They could be on the hook for up to $19 Billion.

    http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2016/01/04/3735811/vw-sued-over-cheating-scandal/