Comparison: Chevrolet Volt & Nissan LEAF Charging Habits

2 years ago by Mark Kane 59

Idaho National Laboratory test EV charging

Idaho National Laboratory test EV charging

2016 Nissan LEAF charging inlets

2016 Nissan LEAF charging inlets

U.S. Department of Energy’s Idaho National Laboratory recently released a comprehensive report about electric car charging habits – Plugged In: How Americans Charge Their Electric Vehicles.

“Between early 2011 and the beginning of 2014, study partners installed more than 17,000 charging stations around the country and tracked the charging habits of more than 8,000 plug-in hybrid and all-electric car drivers. Participation from automakers (mainly General Motors and Nissan), charge station providers like ChargePoint and Blink, and car-sharing services with EVs in their fleets, made this a genuinely nationwide study. EV owners and businesses were given incentives to participate, with DOE installing Level 2 chargers in homes and company parking lots wherever it could obtain written consent to monitor use over three years.”

In total, those Nissan LEAFs and Chevrolet Volts covered 125 million miles (200 million km) and it’s interesting to see how those cars were used and charged.

The first insight is that on average both cars are covering nearly the same distance in all-electric mode, despite Volt having much less EPA range than LEAF. The difference of just 6% is the result of general higher mileages of Volts and the range extender, which encourages Volt drivers to use all available electric range, while LEAF drivers often need to save some reserve as there is no backup.

Idaho National Laboratory: Volt drivers averaged only 6% fewer EV miles per year than Leaf drivers, despite having less than half as much battery energy storage capacity.

Idaho National Laboratory: Volt drivers averaged only 6% fewer EV miles per year than Leaf drivers, despite having less than half as much battery energy storage capacity.

Monthly average for LEAFs stands at some 800 miles.

Average distance driven per month (mi) - LEAF and Volt

Average distance driven per month (mi) – LEAF and Volt

Nissan LEAF and Chevrolet Volts are charged mainly at home, while away-from-home charging is typically limited to just a few sites.

Idaho National Laboratory: Public and workplace charging infrastructure enabled drivers to increase their electric driving range, although most drivers did not charge away from home frequently.

Idaho National Laboratory: Public and workplace charging infrastructure enabled drivers to increase their electric driving range, although most drivers did not charge away from home frequently.

The importance of home and work charging is even more clear on another graph, for LEAFs and Volts, which have access to both home and work charging. They should rarely need public charging.

If you check the report you will also see that a decent percent of drivers were using LEAFs relying on work charging to get back home.

Idaho National Laboratory: 98% Of charging events were performed at home and work on work days.

Idaho National Laboratory: 98% Of charging events were performed at home and work on work days.

The workplace charging point truly extends the capability of EVs:

Volt and Leaf drivers with access to home charging and workplace charging (WPC) had considerably higher annual electric vehicle miles traveled (eVMT ) than the overall project averages, and their eVMT exceeded the national average annual total vehicle miles traveled (VMT ).

Volt and Leaf drivers with access to home charging and workplace charging (WPC) had considerably higher annual electric vehicle miles traveled (eVMT ) than the overall project averages, and their eVMT exceeded the national average annual total vehicle miles traveled (VMT ).

Another Idaho National Laboratory conclusion was about DC fast charging:

“The most highly utilized DC fast chargers tended to be located close to interstate highway exits.”

That would hopefully finally change the policies to install DC chargers clustered in cities instead of along the routes.

“– Where charging was fast, public stations were popular — as long as the price was low. Delivering up to 80 percent in 30 minutes for the Nissan Leaf, DC fast chargers saw use when located near highway interstate exits. EV drivers were confident they could take their vehicles on longer trips, and local drivers were able to get powered back up on days when home or work charging was less convenient.”

Learn more in the report: Plugged In: How Americans Charge Their Electric Vehicles

Update (chart below):  Fleetcarma also put together a nifty infographic on the results as well.

Nissan LEAF/Chevrolet Volt INL Study Inforgraphic - Click to Enlarge (via Fleetcarma)

Nissan LEAF/Chevrolet Volt INL Study Inforgraphic – Click to Enlarge (via Fleetcarma)

Source: Idaho National Laboratory via HybridCars.com

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59 responses to "Comparison: Chevrolet Volt & Nissan LEAF Charging Habits"

  1. kubel says:

    Average LEAF owners drive fewer than 10,000 miles per year? If you’re only driving a few miles to work, why not just get a Volt? To me, the LEAF is perfect for those 38 to 60 mile per day commutes. Any less, get a Volt. Any more, get a Prius… or a Volt.

    (I have a LEAF)

    1. Aaron says:

      Why carry around the ICE and the complexity of the Volt if the simplicity of a pure EV will do?

      1. John Hansen says:

        Because commutes aren’t the only time you drive in your car. If they were, then a Leaf would be the best answer, but if you need to drive somewhere 50 miles away (100 mile round-trip), then you would need another car. Or you could just get a Volt instead, which is simpler.

        1. BraveLilToaster says:

          Considering I regularly take the trip between Vancouver and Whistler in my Leaf (97 miles in hilly, hilly terrain), and that trip is only really possible with the DCQC about halfway along, I would say that the “50 mile-each-way limit” isn’t one.

          Plus, this past summer I also handily took a road trip through the coast mountains that was nearly 600 km. I would definitely say that the only place to charge, ever, was *not* at home. As each year goes by, I can take my car further and further. Stop spreading this stupid lie.

      2. Spider-Dan says:

        Because the Volt has a thermal management system for its battery and won’t rapidly bleed range.

        1. Gene says:

          Which is better is always use-case specific, and answers that are black and white don’t advance the discussion.

          Some people benefit from thermal management, some people don’t really need it. People with short commutes can put less charging cycles on a larger battery than a smaller battery by not charging daily. Maybe even with a short commute, those non-commute trips are still within a Leaf’s range for someone, maybe they aren’t. Maybe families need to have two cars anyhow, so there’s no need for both to have long range capabilities.

          The INL study presents correlations, but it doesn’t establish cause and effect. Do people get Leafs because they drive less distance than the average driver? Or do they drive less distance because they’re constrained by their Leaf’s range? Maybe the latter isn’t such a bad thing: not driving if you don’t really need to is a better way to save the planet than putting unnecessary miles on a green car. If people drove less, there would be less traffic, less road construction & maintenance, which have numerous small but non-zero consequences, such as taxes, etc.

          1. Richard says:

            I live in canada and in winter a lot of leaf owner use an IDE car at températures below 20, at least with the volt and in thermal mode it uses both the ice and electric for an average of 1.75l per 100km.

      3. larry4pyro says:

        I’m retired so a BEV, even one with ordinary range like the Leaf, could handle 95% of my driving needs. But that last 5% meant keeping a second car around. It takes an enormous amount of energy and resources to make a car, so my wife and I decided to see if we could get along with a single vehicle. We also wanted an EV to go with the solar PV that was recently installed. When researching vehicles the Volt was the only car that could meet our needs. Now, after almost 5 years I’m happy to report our Volt has easily met our expectations.

        One concern I had about a dual propulsion vehicle was the maintenance of the ICE and related systems. As it turns out the only ICE related maintenance has been a couple of oil changes of which only one was required.

        Another reason I’m finding for lugging around an ICE is the dual propulsion systems will probably never wear out in my lifetime (I’m 72). I believe 20 years of useful life is easily achievable. Unfortunately, the call of the Gen 2 Volt is overcoming any logical reason for keeping my Volt. It appears to do everything I like in my gen 1 Volt even better.

        1. Nix says:

          Luckily your old Volt won’t just disappear once you sell it and get a new Volt. It will be sold to somebody else, and hopefully take some dirty car (like a VW diesel* ) off the road.

          Replacing your old Volt with a new Volt will help increase the total number of Volts on the road.

          (* /sarc on the VW part of the comment)

    2. David S. says:

      Why pay more for a Volt if you don’t need the range extender? What if you needed five seats?

      1. Jimmy says:

        Used volts are super cheap! I recently picked up a fully loaded, 2013 volt with 20,000 miles on the odometer for $17,000!!

        $41,000 worth of hardware for $17,000!

        1. don says:

          And used LEAFs (even top of the line SL) are even cheaper 😉

          As others have said, it doesn’t make sense to haul that ICE if you don’t need it.

          1. SparkEV says:

            In same logic, does it make sense to carry around extra battery capacity (cost + weight) that you may rarely use? Most people don’t drive 200 miles in one sitting (over 3 hours at freeway).

            I think most is 1.5 to 2 hours of range at freeway with AC/heat for most people: 100 to 150 miles. That would be 30 kWh to 40 kWh SparkEV, bit more for others.

            1. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

              8-|

              Curb weights (lb):
              Volt 1: 3,786
              Volt 2: 3,543
              Leaf: 3,256 (S 24kWh) – 3,391 (SL 30kWh)

              1. SparkEV says:

                Hmm. For me, it’s all about the money.

                I don’t mean today’s Leaf, but future EV like when Musk claims 500 miles range EV.

        2. Bp says:

          I just bought a new 2014 Volt for $20k (after tax credit)

        3. speedrabbit says:

          Just picked up a new 2015 Leaf S w/charge package ($33K MSRP) for $11.5K after incentives on a $0 down 0% 60-month loan. $14.5K after taxes (since taxes are pre-incentives).

          Love the Volt, fantastic vehicle, but with that pricing it made more sense for us to get a new Leaf and keep maintaining our Maxima for the occasional (every 1-2 months) longer trips.

          Hope someday to replace the Maxima with a used Volt, but battery electrics might be routinely doing 300+ miles by then, so at that point BEVs might end up being just fine even for 500 mile days.

    3. Brian says:

      I have a <5 mile commute. Between that, and living in a small, densely populated county, I drive my Leaf about 8,000 miles/year. It covers about 90% of my trips, and about 50% of my miles.

      I bought a Leaf because I didn't need or want the baggage of an ICE in at least one of my two family vehicles. My wife's car is a PHEV (CMax Energi). It's a great combination.

      1. Reddy says:

        Yup, you and I (as well as many other low mileage drivers) are the reason for the low average Leaf miles. Work is 8 mi RT for me and our community is less than 20 mi across and a “charging island”, so I “struggle” to put 7000 mi/yr on the Leaf. I have another vehicle for long distance travel.

    4. Sam EV says:

      The size. At 6’3″ the Volt has almost 0 head-room and it WAY too cramped. Good luck getting kids in car seats to fit. The Leaf on the other hand is nice and spacious.

      Something like the Hyundai Sonata plugin-hybrid is a much better size.

      1. MarkN says:

        I had no problem fitting a large (up to 70 pound child) car seat in the Volt. My 95th percentile height daughter fit in it no problem.
        And the 2016 Volt has more headroom.

    5. Londo Bell says:

      @ Kubel,

      Think of it as not just Volt AND LEAF, but all other brands too. Thus, if you driving less than, say, 38mi/day, get an “i” from Mitsubishi, or Smart EV, etc. Those are even cheaper, you know.

      The other take about the 10K average – which I fall perfectly right into it for the past 5 years, is that the daily use may not vary much, but do so during the weekends, i.e. M-F maybe 20 mi tops, but weekend some 50-60 mi. What does that get you? ~200 mi/week, ~10K mi/year.

      ALL ELECTRIC, of course.

    6. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      kubel asked:

      “If you’re only driving a few miles to work, why not just get a Volt?”

      That’s a rather strange argument. Seems to me it would be much more natural to ask: If you’re only driving a few miles to work, why not just get a Leaf? Or any other BEV.

      Volts fit the lifestyle of those who at least occasionally need to drive their EV a long distance. If you’re using it only for commuting, then why deal with the expense of having two drivetrains, and the hassle of at least occasionally needing to drive to the gas station to buy gasoline?

  2. David Murray says:

    I bet the 2016 Volt will actually wind up using more EV miles than the Leaf…then again, with the longer range Leaf coming out, that may re-balance both cars to a higher number.

    1. KenZ says:

      Maybe, but one detail not teased out here is a presentation of the same data broken down by lease type and full ownership. Our volt lease is capped at 11,000 miles/year which DEFINITELY affects its gas vs EV miles as we don’t take it on all of out long trips

  3. ClarksonCote says:

    I don’t think the subset of vehicles could have covered 125,000 million miles. That’s 125,000,000,000 miles which is orders of magnitude more than the whole fleet of Volts and Leafs, according to their respective company press releases.

  4. SparkEV says:

    It’s hard to gauge the picture just from this article. What percentage was Leaf with DCFC and only L2? What percentage of outside charges were DCFC vs L2?

    Interesting about Leaf is that it seems to go down with time. If one assumes there are more Chademo stations, the trend seems backwards. Why? Was there no additional Chademo during survey time?

    If such survey is done with me and I don’t have DCFC, my outside charging would be 0%. Picking up 12 mph is just too slow (Leaf in those years were 3.3kW L2). I’d take the gas car instead.

    1. SparkEV says:

      I went to PDF. When Leaf away from home, only 1% used DCFC exclusively, 36% used combination of L1/L2/DCFC. That tells me at least 37% had DCFC capable cars. But if they can access DCFC regularly, why on 1% charge on DCFC exclusively, and what’s the mix among 36%? Cost? Availability? Both? Other?

      They mention Blink DCFC where it was free in the beginning then started charging money. With their outrageous rate that costs more than 15 MPG gas car, I don’t blame people for not using DCFC.

      So the conclusion? I can’t make any sense of this mess. It does raise more questions. With more DCFC that are reasonably priced (at least the level of Prius):

      Would Leaf drivers drive more?

      Would Leaf charge more outside of home/work?

      Would Leaf use DCFC just as much locally as off highway? Remember, off highway means you’re on a long trip and/or desperate to charge at any cost.

      I don’t know! Basically only thing I got out of it was 63% only charged using L1/L2. Interestingly, that’s RC / LR time constant.

      1. Elroy says:

        It varies greatly. Sometimes its better to see the mean average data. For example I have done 1127 L1/L2 charge, at 570 DCQC. So fully a third of my charging is DCQC. So I see what goes on at public stations all the time. The most horrible transgression at our busy mall is seeing incompatible Volts/Teslas/Prius, blocking the DCQC stalls so we cant charge.

        1. SparkEV says:

          It varies greatly is my beef with this study. There are too many variable changing in time. Making sense of non-linear, time variant stuff is extremely difficult without knowing thorough details, even as far as “what did they have for breakfast each day?”

          I wouldn’t call it worthless, but to make sense of it as a whole is impossible. Then they tried to make policy recommendations. Ugh!

          1. SparkEV says:

            By the way, mean average doesn’t mean anything if the distribution is non-gaussian. For example, Blink DCFC was free in the beginning, but was charging later, which caused huge drop in DCFC. But it picked up later with more (desperate?) users. The what would be the distribution? Bimodal? Is the mean meaningful? I don’t know!

          2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

            SparkEV said:

            “I wouldn’t call it worthless, but to make sense of it as a whole is impossible. Then they tried to make policy recommendations. Ugh!”

            In real-world studies, it’s often difficult or impossible to tease out the effect of just one variable on the outcome. Certainly it would be wrong to form any quantitative conclusions from the data, but surely we can make some common-sense qualitative conclusions? For example, a drop in usage when a network goes from free use to charge-per-use seems to have a pretty straightforward cause and effect.

            Let’s put it another way, SparkEV: Would you rather those in charge completely ignore this study when making policy decisions?

            1. SparkEV says:

              If the study is incomplete, flawed, or jumbled mess like this, those in charge should throw out the study.

              There’s also the problem of sample size and quality; people who drive EV in early days won’t be anything like those who come later. There’s also the problem of different EV (ie. 200 miles range) Policy decisions for different group of people should not be done.

              Reading further down in comments, it seems study is also flawed. For example, no Volt from SF area?

              Let me ask you: would you have policy makers making decisions based on inclusive or flawed study?

  5. David says:

    Why carry around an ICE? To pick up the 2500 miles per year that the Leaf drivers are missing out on–or using a second car, or renting a car, etc. With a Volt you only need one car. I drive an EV commuting to work, I drive a hybrid on weekend road trips. I drive a Volt.

    1. Kaleb says:

      People have different needs. My wife and I use our Leaf for more than 95% of our driving. When we take a long trip we take our SUV because we need the space, towing capability, 4WD, capability a Volt doesn’t have. So a Leaf and an SUV work flawlessly for us.

      1. Ian says:

        Same here. I would drive my LEAF on longer trips but there are no charging stations.

      2. CG says:

        +1. SUV +EV From a family perspective, I almost can’t think of a better situation. We need two cars anyway, both working, chances to have both longer commutes than the Leaf range are almost 0. So if I need electric motor and ICE, better be in two different packages to take advantage of both worlds.

    2. Richard says:

      Whats the range of a leaf at minus 30 or lower. I dont want to be stuck on the side of the road, or freaze to death for a 45 minutes commute the leaf is an ice box in winter.

  6. vdiv says:

    Wonder how the Model S and the Energi twins compare with the Leaf and Volt findings…

  7. Spider-Dan says:

    In previous data released by INL, they have had a highly questionable distribution of cars in the study.

    In this new PDF, they do not break out number of cars by location, but in a previous release, the overwhelming majority of Leafs surveyed were from the Pacific Northwest (i.e. the best possible weather for a Leaf), while there were 0 Volts surveyed from the SF Bay Area (arguably the most popular location for Volt sales).

    I’d like to see more data than was provided in the PDF.

    1. ModernMarvelFan says:

      On page 2 of the PDF, the color code shows that there are still 0 Volt in the data base for SF Bay Area.

      This is the exact same study you are talking about. No change, just “reformatted” to present in a different set of PDF.

      LOL.

      I think there was a long discussion on Green Car Reports between very posters about this exact concern.

      It hasn’t changed.

  8. Londo Bell says:

    1 important data point that no one seems to talk about, because it’s mostly secondary, is the charging station business.

    There’s pretty much none! Data reassure it in a way (charge only when low cost, and only ~16% of the time). That, compare the time and money required to install a charging station, explains why various providers have folded or in the process to.

    Both subsidies and PUC involvement is needed if we want to see more charging stations, especially those for quick charges. PUC is the only party that can bypass all the bureaucracies since, well, it is the bureaucracy itself.

  9. James K. Bobalubiak says:

    @Spider-Dan, @Spark-EV
    This study was obviously written for the lay audience. INL has published numerous other reports that provide answers to the questions you brought up and others about behavior observed in the EV Project. If you like data analysis, there is a lot to sink your teeth into here: http://avt.inl.gov/evproject.shtml

    Start with Lessons Learned White Papers, which I’ve found to be quick reads but based on solid analysis and insightful.

  10. wavelet says:

    Very interesting, and I’m glad to see the the gov’t is spending money on applied usage research, not just basic or applied science — understanding these charging pattern is critical to figuring out the type & extent of infrastructure needed for widespread EV deployment.

    This study had enough card across enough time & miles that the results could be statistically significant.

    I’ll delve into the DoE site, but in the meantime, something I’m sorely missing is the quantitative definition of
    “Nissan LEAF and Chevrolet Volts are charged mainly at home, while away-from-home charging is typically limited to just a few sites.” (fig. 3 & 4).
    What is being measured here? # of sessions? Hours connected to a charger? kWh?
    I suspect it’s just the first (simplest to measure), but there’s a big difference between a topping-off charge 20min and several hours’ charging in terms of infrastructure implications.
    The SUmmary PDF doesn’t address this — anyone know?

    1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      wavelet asked:

      “What is being measured here? # of sessions? Hours connected to a charger? kWh?”

      I was wondering the same thing. Since the focus of the study seems to be miles driven, rather than anything else, I’m guessing what was measured was either charging hours or kWh dispensed. I’d guess the former, since the latter would be far harder for the average EV owner to measure.

      As far as # of sessions, at least one older study indicated Volt drivers stop to charge more frequently than Leaf owners (link below), which I suppose is due to the Volt having a significantly shorter all-electric range.

      On the other hand, that study may be skewed because it uses only data from Ecotality, and we can’t be sure the average Volt user of Ecototality, or the average Leaf user of Ecototality, are representative of all Leaf or all Volt owners.

      Lots of variables there, so dangerous to make very many firm conclusions based on the data.

  11. Nix says:

    Does figure 4 make the Leaf the Charlie Sheen of EV’s, with their higher rate of plug promiscuity?

    /sarc

  12. Just_Chris says:

    Again we see Volt vs Leaf comparisons and people getting on their high horse about which is better.

    They are 2 totally different cars if I had a volt I’d need to fill it up with petrol every 3 months or so, my leaf (my only car btw) I never need to fill it up with anything but electrons. We regularly drive 90-100 km (often much less) but almost never drive more than 100 km (this was true when we had an ICE, we haven’t changed our driving habits). The car is used every day and we do about 12-13k miles per year.

    People who drive differently need a different car, it’s not right or wrong it’s just different. That is what this data shows people with volts drive further so they need a rex, people who drive leafs drive shorter distances so don’t need the rex. What is interesting is that the average drive is about the same, about 40 miles, which I think we already knew but it is still interesting.

    I wonder how many volt drivers will go for 200 mile bevs in the end? There is an assumption that this will be enough for people to switch all electric but we will see how many do.

    1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      +5

      To progress, the EV revolution needs both BEVs and long-range PHEVs (like the Volt), not just one or the other. We EV enthusiasts, we EVangelists, should embrace both.

      1. ModernMarvelFan says:

        Thank you!

        In fact, there is nothing wrong by pointing out the issues with current designs that aren’t sufficient.

        We should demand all automakers to make them better. GM, Nissan, BMW all should do better!

        Stop picking on each other, we have much bigger battle to fight against 97% of the remaining market.

  13. Red HHR says:

    Dang, the Volt in that picture is RED.

  14. Chip says:

    Lots of interesting results.
    Two of these are:
    1. Just 6% EV miles distance:
    “The first insight is that on average both cars are covering nearly the same distance in all-electric mode, despite Volt having much less EPA range than LEAF. The difference of just 6% is the result of general higher mileages of Volts and the range extender, which encourages Volt drivers to use all available electric range, while LEAF drivers often need to save some reserve as there is no backup”.

    2. “The workplace charging point truly extends the capability of EVs”.

    If you want more people to drive EVs, workplace charging can help a lot.
    Most policy regarding EVs overlooks the importance of workplace charging.

    1. Chip says:

      I meant to say just 6% difference in EV miles

  15. Chip says:

    “The most highly utilized DC fast chargers tended to be located close to interstate highway exits. That would hopefully finally change the policies to install DC chargers clustered in cities instead of along the routes”.

    Dale Vince, millionaire hippy owner of Ecotricity, believes highway services are where fast chargers are needed most & has rolled out a network of DC & AC combo fast chargers at motorway services in England. Already an astonishing number of miles of travel have been enabled by his charging network.

  16. Bill Howland says:

    Haha! Figures its a gov’t Laboratory. 3 switchgear sections to charge several vehicles at the same time. Money spent is of no object. I had to put that ‘dig’ in.

    I can charge several vehicles at the same time (alright, maybe not at max speed) with zero switchgear…

    As far as the VOLTec drivetrain being wasted, you have a transmission in both gen 1 and gen 2, and it is ALMOST enough to keep the efficiency high. The only deficiency is the inefficiency when starting from a dead stop – it really needs additional reduction to make acceleration from a dead stop to be efficient, which it is now, only if you crawl forward very slowly. But after it gets to 20 mph, the thing gets very efficient.

    Both my current vehicles have engines, and I don’t feel their a waste at all. What I think is a real waste is those ‘ cost reduced ‘ 8 kw ‘garbage can shaped’ emergency generators are, since they ‘automatically start’ and never shut themselves down until the power comes back on , which , usually is after the poor little thing burns itself out.

    I’m sure most ‘upscale’ BEV – only owners around western ny (where I am) have automatic ice’s for their homes.

    I’m using the car’s facility as part of my emergency backup electricity system. So nothing goes to waste. I even charge the cars with ‘off the grid – if necessary’ solar power when available.

    Ok as far saying the stuff is superfluous, most of the readers here have never experienced our winters.

    No wonder the VOLT is so popular in Canada.

  17. Sean says:

    I love reading the Leaf owners excitement for their limiting cars. Leaf is a perfect icon. Like leaves, they die in the cold (half the range with heater). I wonder what its like to be in the car with a Leaf owner when their 4 year old car (that’s already suffered 10-25% battery degredation over the years) is in the single digits of range (roll up the windows kids! Turn off the AC! I can’t go on the highway, we’re sticking to the efficient 40mph areas! ) or to see a Leaf owner wake up in a cold sweat as they realize they forgot to plug the car in, and they have work in 7 hours. Hahah. Love my Volt all the way, never a worry, and 99% of my hour long commute trips are all electric. In fact, we’re excited to take our toddler on her first road trip in the Volt. Leaf owners should hope holiday airfares are cheap. Lol

    1. Michael says:

      Wow, you must be really disappointed with your Volt, if the only way you can feel good about it is by tearing down LEAF owners. Thank you for reminding me not to go on and on about how great my LEAF is when advocating for EVs. Bottom line, the Volt is just as good, I should forget my biases and hopefully convince someone to buy whichever EV suits their needs.

      1. ModernMarvelFan says:

        “I should forget my biases and hopefully convince someone to buy whichever EV suits their needs.”

        Doesn’t LEAF owners constantly jab at Volt owners for the fact their Volt carries an engine onboard? They complain about the increased complexity and all the engine services “required” (which is minimal). They also pointed out the smaller interior size relentlessly.

        So, how is it wrong when Volt owners pointed out the fact about how slow LEAF is or how terrible its battery thermal management is or how bad its small overlap crash scores are or how much range it loses in extreme cold?

        Aren’t those facts as well?

        If you can’t handle the facts, then demand Nissan to make a better EV.

    2. Karl says:

      One would think you’d be happy to see Leafs rather than full ICE vehicles on the road. Thankfully, not all Volt owners are so myopic.