ChargePoint Express Plus Debuts: Offers Industry High 400 kW DC Fast Charging

3 months ago by Tom Moloughney 128

Four ChargePoint Express Plus Stations and Two Power Cubes offering up to a 400 kW charge

Four ChargePoint Express Plus Stations and Two Power Cubes offering up to a 400 kW charge

Tesla has always understood that in order to succeed they needed to have a robust public recharging network available to their customers. They’ve spent hundreds of millions of dollars building out their proprietary Supercharger Network, while owners of electric vehicles made by other OEMs could only dream about having the luxury to recharge their vehicle so rapidly.

Are you ready for the future? ChargePoint says the Express Plus station was built with the nedes of the next decade in mind

Are you ready for the future? ChargePoint says the Express Plus station was built with the needs of the next decade in mind

Public CHAdeMO and CCS DC fast chargers typically max out at either 24kW or 50kW, which pales in comparison to Tesla’s ability to charge at 120kW.

There simply wasn’t any DCQC equipment available that could deliver near the level of power that a Supercharger could. However that just changed. Today at the Consumer Electronics Show, ChargePoint announced their next generation of DC Fast charge stations, the ChargePoint Express Plus, offering up to 400 kW of charging capacity.

Update (Jan 5th):  Added video tutorial from ChargePoint on the Express Plus below

“Designed for the next 10 years in transportation technology, ChargePoint Express Plus charges up to eight times faster than today’s mainstream fast chargers”

Platform adds hundreds of miles of range in under 15 minutes, charging todays and tomorrows electric vehicles (EVs) at their peak rates.

Offers the highest charging capacity in the industry, delivering up to 400 kW per port.

The modular, highly scalable platform is designed to meet the charging requirements of current and next-generation electric cars, buses and trucks.

Proprietary liquid cooling technology supports the thinnest, most flexible high-capacity charging cables on the market and creates a superior charging experience for drivers.

I had the opportunity to sit down with ChargePoint CEO, Pasquale Romano at CES on Wednesday to discuss the company’s new line of DC fast charge stations and it was clear he was excited about their new offering. The modular design in particular was a feature that he believes will make their system uniquely attractive:

“Express Plus charging centers can start small and grow as needed by adding charging capacity without further construction. Together with our commercial and residential charging solutions, Express Plus completes the technology offering required to make fully electric transit a reality.”

ChargePort Express Plus (front, side, back profile)

ChargePort Express Plus (front, side, back profile)

From the ChargePoint Express Plus product sheet:

ChargePoint Express Plus Power Cube (full specs below)

ChargePoint Express Plus Power Cube (full specs below)

“ChargePoint Express Plus employs a modular, scalable architecture that allows one system to serve up to a megawatt (MW) across as many as eight charging stations. It supports charging voltages ranging from 200 volts (V) to 1000 V including today’s 400 V cars and 750 V e-buses, and tomorrow’s 800 V cars. The innovative design of Express Plus lets station owners buy just what they need and scale up as demand grows with no stranded investment along the way.”

Even though there aren’t any production EVs available that can utilize such high power rates, Romano was confident there will be vehicles capable of accepting this high rate of power soon.

He also pointed out the chicken and egg dilemma. Now that there will be charging infrastructure to support high speed charging, the OEMs will be more willing to invest in designing systems to allow their vehicles to utilize it.

I remember my interview with Chevy Bolt chief engineer Josh Tavel last year. When I asked him about high speed DC Fast charging for the Bolt he responded that they worked with what was currently available, but if equipment is developed to allow vehicles to charge at a higher rate, he would absolutely look into that for future Bolt models.

ChargePoint Explress Plus UI: Available, In Use And Complete Screens

ChargePoint Explress Plus UI: Available, In Use And Complete Screens

ChargePoint Express Plus stations will offer CCS and CHAdeMO charging, but can support up to three connectors, leaving the possibility open for a third “standard” to be added. I doubt ChargePoint would have designed the stations with the option to add a third connector unless they believed there was a good possibility that it would be utilized.

In addition to the ChargePoint Express Plus platform, ChargePoint is also offering a lower cost alternative, the ChargePoint Express 250. These are standalone stations are capable of delivering up to 62.5kW. The lower power delivery eliminates the need for the complex liquid cooling system, which allows for a lower price point. These stations are capable of adding about 90 miles of range in 30 minutes.

The ChargePoint Express 250 and ChargePoint Express Plus charging stations will be available in July 2017.

Full spec sheets below, and further details about ChargePoint Express can be found here

ChargePoint Express Plus Full Specs (click to enlarge)

ChargePoint Express Plus Full Specs (click to enlarge)

ChargePoint Express Plus Power Module Output Charactistics

ChargePoint Express Plus Power Module Output Charactistics

ChargePoint Express Plus Power Cube Output Characteristics

ChargePoint Express Plus Power Cube Output Characteristics

ChargePoint Express Plus 4 + 1 Configuration

ChargePoint Express Plus 4 + 1 Configuration

ChargePoint Express Plus 2 + 1 Configuration

ChargePoint Express Plus 2 + 1 Configuration

ChargePoint Express Plus 1 + 1 Configuration

ChargePoint Express Plus 1 + 1 Configuration

ChargePoint Express Plus Two Station (No Cube) Configuration

ChargePoint Express Plus Two Station (No Cube) Configuration

ChargePoint Express 250 Stats/Configuration

ChargePoint Express 250 Configuration

ChargePoint Express 250 Configuration

ChargePoint Express 250 Specifications

ChargePoint Express 250 Specifications

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128 responses to "ChargePoint Express Plus Debuts: Offers Industry High 400 kW DC Fast Charging"

  1. tosho says:

    It would be interesting to know how much those babies cost…

  2. Jake Brake says:

    Goodbye gas.

    1. Eco says:

      Goodbye diesel

    2. Warren says:

      Well 300kWh would be the energy equivalent of taking about 9 gallons of gas in an hour instead of a 5 minute gas station fill. So although better, still not on par with the convenience of a gas fill while on a road trip. Of course EVs go much further on the same amount of energy, but you get my point.

      Most of today’s small EVs have less than 30kWh, so theoretically they could fill in 6 minutes. But then the reality is current EV batteries that size (i3, Leaf, etc) could not handle anything close to that type of charging rate anyways. They cant even handle 45kW for very long.

      The new Motor Trend issue just did a comparison test between a 60kWh Tesla Model S vs the Chevy Bolt. They said to fully charge the Bolt on the DCQC took them over 2 1/2 hours! So with the long charging times on just these moderately sized 60kWh
      batteries, and seeing those lines at Tesla Chargers, I will really starting to get discouraged about the infrastructure even being able to support even 10% BEV market penetration. Especially when the poor guy in a EGolf is waiting over 2 hrs for a Bolt to finish charging. But this fast charging evolution looks promising. Over 1000amps! Wow, and the utilities infrastructure support is the other big question. That is a lot of power!

      1. Sy Gung HO says:

        400 kWh is equal to 11 gallons of gas. But you can go more than 1100 miles in an EV with that, you can’t do that with 11 gallons of gas. You also have to ask, when will people use these chargers given that the new gen of EVs go more than 200 miles. The average driver will only need fast charging for two purposes, when they need a really fast charge to get them 10 miles to home and, once a year, when they are on their vacation. Once a year, I stop for 1 hour at a Nissan Dealer and watch TV, drink free coffee, and use their Wi-Fi to check my mail. I do the same a week later on the return trip. I for one am willing to make this great sacrifice to help save the world.

        1. Nix says:

          Sy is correct. If you want to drive 300 miles between charges, you only need around the equivalent of less than 3 gallons of gas.

          Given EV’s with batteries that can take advantage of the full capability of these chargers, a 10 minute charging stop would give you range similar to many gas vehicles.

          It is a mistake to talk about the gas equivalent of electricity, without also accounting for the much higher MPGe of electric vehicles.

      2. Ziv says:

        Warren, charging to 100% is a waste of time, and given the longer ranges on newer BEVs it isn’t needed. Charging to just 80% allows the car to charge more efficiently with little charge rate tapering.
        A Bolt can be charged from 10% to 80% in little over 45 minutes. Plug in, relax and grab a coffee or a sandwich. You only need to fast charge a BEV a couple times a year.

        1. The Bolt EV is not going to charge that fast, sorry.

          The absolutle PEAK charge rate will be around 47-48kW, and the average between 10% and 80% will be closer to 43kW at 125 amps.

          Using 45kW for easy math, that’s 0.75kWh added per minute. The battery is likely 57kWh usable when new, therefore:

          (57kW * 70%) / 0.75kWh = 53 minutes

          That is with a 125 amp charger. Many chargers are 63 amps, 100 amps, or 120 amps… in other words, slightly longer to double the time.

          There even a few 48-50 amp chargers around SoCal.

          1. Lpa says:

            There is a monster lurking in the dark. How will fast charging at these high currents effect the batteries?

            Not aware of any study looking at the battery performance of frequent fast chargers. Realistic only Tesla could do this type of work.

            1. Lots of folks can design batteries to handle “350-400kW”. There are already buses, trucks, trollies, and ferry boats using up to 1.2MW.

          2. Robert Middleswarth says:

            Chevy charging stations are 80 kw not 50 kw in an article talking about faster charging stations. 80 kw will charge faster.

  3. MTN Ranger says:

    I’m guessing they are building their system to support proposed CCS and CHAdeMO standards. That seems to be good because they can start installing these systems now and probably just have to do firmware updates to account for any standards changes.

    We also seem to be at the point where GM could now say they will support infrastructure that is actually meaningful. Widespread interstate 25-50 kW DCFC seems like a waste of time/money now.

    1. ClarksonCote says:

      “I’m guessing they are building their system to support proposed CCS and CHAdeMO standards.”

      Seems like it. For example, their specs say the maximum current is 1250A, which is not in current CCS or Chademo standards as far as I know.

      1. Texas FFE says:

        The current SAE J1772 DC Level 2 standard is 100 kW at 500V and 200A.

        1. Texas FFE says:

          For those not familiar with the standards, the standard for Combined Charging System (CCS) chargers is SAE J1772 DC Level 2. And to head off comments, Level 3 is a colloquial tag placed on CCS chargers and nothing to do with the name of the standard CCS chargers comply with.

          1. That SAE – CCS standard only applies for the United States. In Europe, not only is the CCS plug not compatible with the US one, but now the charge rates are different officially different (among many other differences).

            Clearly, this product is designed for world standards, not just one country that copies its designs from others.

            1) Yazaki in Japan developed the current SAE J1772-2009 / 2010 plug.

            2) German companies developed CCS with cludgy extra DC pin idea that SAE incorporated on the “Yazaki” design

            3) CHAdeMO, which is the most widespread protocol in the US and the world, was designed entirely by the Tokyo Electric Company in Japan

            4) Tesla Supercharger was designed privately in the US by Tesla, and is not used by SAE as a standard

            5) GB/T is exclusively a China concern

        2. ClarksonCote says:

          Thanks. I know that’s the current standard, but I was uncertain of what any proposed standards are.

          1. Jeff N says:

            The new CCS standard have not been made public yet as far as I know. There have been statements about an intent to support “350 kW” charging which implies 350A at 1000 V. The 1250A number you quoted is a power cube number that is shared among multiple stations and plugs. The maximum for any station would be 400A.

            1. ClarksonCote says:

              Thanks for pointing out my error. So with 400A per station, with today’s battery voltages that would still be up to 160kW. Still not too shabby!

              1. Not quite.

                With a 400 volt battery, the car is not going to charge at 400a * 400v.

                The current fastest charging production car is a Tesla at 120kW, and that maximum charge rate is well below the maximum battery voltage (330a * 350-360 volts for 85-90-100kWh cars with 400v battery).

                That same car will charge at EXACTLY the same rate with this 400a capable ChargePoint charger.

                No 400v car will charge at 400a * 400v = 160kW

                A 500 volt car might, but nobody is going to build one of those. The next jump in voltage is 700-800 volts. I don’t honestly see 900-1000 volt batteries.

                After that, for serious commercial applications like ferry boats, trains, semi trucks, etc, the voltage will likely go above 1500.

                1. ClarksonCote says:

                  Tony, I’m not referring to today’s Tesla. I’m referring to future vehicles with similar voltages but larger batteries.

                  Yes, it is possible other vehicles could use the full 400A. It is not unheard of for Lithium Ion batteries to charge at rates higher than 1C these days. Additionally, batteries are getting larger.

                  My main point is that future 400V battery packs will likely be able to use 400A, obviously not the existing cars they can’t even use less current than that. Today’s technical limitations are tomorrow’s examples of obsolescence.

                  1. ClarksonCote says:

                    And I was being a bit cavalier with my 160kW math, I do recognize the difference between CC and CV charging and that you can’t have max amps at CV nor max Volts at CC.

                    But you can still use these stations to get charge rates greater than 1C on 400V batteries that will support those currents, which is what really excites me.

      2. Bill Howland says:

        1250 amps is the maximum output of 16 modules (1 so called power cube) – which is good for 500 kw, but then you can also configure each ‘stall’ for 62.5 kw.

        But the maximum PER CAR is 400 kw, so thats 1000 amps or less seeing as their system doesn’t develop maximum power until 400 volts.

        But a la the adaptive power smart phones, they are going to “L2-esque” charging scenarios in that, if the battery is at least 400 volts when ‘dead’, the system can provide a continuous 400 kw to this car.

  4. Bob Nan says:

    How much does it cost. That’s a very important factor. But its good to upgrade the technology as well.

  5. S says:

    In Europe most fast charging stations have three connectors – ChaDeMo, CCS (EU style) and Type2 Mennekes for AC charging. So I suppose they’re just preparing for European market then.

    1. tosho says:

      It makes no sense to add AC charging to those. AC chargers are basicaly just direct plugs to the grid. The third spot is probably for Tesla. And maybe they are waiting to see if the Model3 will have CCS before they announce it.

      1. MTN Ranger says:

        It appears it is for Tesla on their promo video:

    2. blacx says:

      Only one version of the renault zoe can charge at more than 22 kw AC, and that version is not the best seller. I think that for that kind of power it would be stupid to put AC charging on those stations.

      1. Cavaron says:

        43kW AC charging is the easiest to implement with the three phase EU grid. There are 43kW wallboxes available at about 1000€.

        43kW Zoe doesn’t sell that well because Renault does not advertise the faster charging, which isn’t even available in all EU markets (not in Germany for example).

        Besides Renault, BYD uses 33-43kW AC fast charging as the only option in their cars.

        But it seems that Renault will go for 22kW AC only and CSS in the future.

        1. Eletruk says:

          The way the Zoe does the 43Kw charging is interesting (and all modern EVs could do it) because they simply use the cars regen capability, just the power comes from the line rather than the AC motor.

          1. The early Tesla Roadster 1.5 uses this technique to charge the battery, however a small company called AC Propulsion holds the patent. The early Roadster also doesn’t have a traditional 12 volt battery.

            The subsequent Roadster 2.0 and 2.5 use a traditional onboard charger in the “PEM”, with 12 volt batteries.

            Nobody wants to pay the patent. In addition, there is not widespread three phase power in the United States to take advantage of.

            1. Bill Howland says:

              Two Points:

              The roadster never used anything other than a single phase connector or charging facility, even in Europe.

              Phase Converters are not that expensive, and are trivial in cost compared to some garages that have multiple $100,000 vehicles.

              1. I didn’t state the Roadster used three phase power in Europe,

                I said three phase isn’t prevalent here, and Tesla stuck with the single phase system that they didn’t pay a patent fee on.

                1. Bill Howland says:

                  Three phase is prevalent in the states:

                  Anyone who doesn’t have it and who needs it gets a cheap phase converter… They really are trivially cheap. Unfortunately, most Euro chargers may need the voltage changed requiring a transformer which raises the cost a bit.

    3. Tom Moloughney says:

      I don’t believe that’s the case.

  6. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ sven says:

    Typo: From the last graphic, the ChargePoint Express 250 standalone stations are capable of delivering up to 125 kW max continuous power per station, and 62kW max simultaneous power on two stations.

    1. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ sven says:

      The story text says 62 kW max per station.

      1. Jay Cole says:

        It can be a bit confusing with the two products. Perhaps ChargePoint should have given them better/separate names?

        They stack when paired as the Express Plus offering…individual/standalones (no ability to add Power Cube) they are 62.5 kW – sold as Express 250. I added two more graphics at the end of the story detailing the standalone Express 250 specs and configuration.

        1. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ sven says:

          Thanks Jay!

  7. Taser54 says:

    I need a cigarette

    1. speculawyer says:

      Well . . . you can smoke near these chargers whereas you can’t smoke near a gasoline pump.

  8. notting says:

    Stupid questions:
    1. http://www.charinev.org/ccs-at-a-glance/what-is-the-ccs/ says that they’re currently only thinking of 350kW, so currently no specs (just Will it be possible to upgrade? (maybe just a firmware update? Protocols could change?)

    2. Energy consumption of the cooling, especially of the cable?

    3. Costs in general? (ok, I’m not the first one here asking that)

    notting

    1. First, I’m going to be saying this a lot in the coming years, the placarded maximum charge rate of the station has very little to do with how fast it will charge your car.

      A Tesla charge station can DC output 365a * 400v = 147kW, yet no Tesla car can charge over 120kW. Those same cars absolutley can charge at either 365a, or 400v, just not at both the same time.

      The same is true of a Chevy Bolt EV, Nissan LEAF, BMW i3, or eGolf, or any number of other vehicles restricted to 125a. Virtually all public DC charge stations are all physically capable of 500v, but no car Is.

      So, while the charger is technically capable of 125a at 500v = 62.5 kW, all those cars listed above charge below 50 kW. Why? Because none of the cars are capable of more than 400v. In addition, none of them are capable of handling the rated 125 amps at their max battery voltage, so no car is charging at 125a * 400v = 50kW (well, there is one… the Tesla Roadster with a 416v battery).

      To answer your questions:

      1) It’s quite probable that should the CCS group ever publicly release their data, we will find that the maximum amperage is 400 and the maximum voltage will be 850 to 900:

      400a * 850v = 320kW
      400a * 900v = 360kW

      CHAdeMO is officially:

      350a * 1000v = 350kW

      Tesla Supercharger is:

      365a * 400v = 147kW

      I predict Tesla will offer:

      500a * 1500v = 750kW primarily for trucks

      Again, this won’t mean that a Porsche MissionE car is going to charge at 320kW or 360kW any more than a Tesla can charge at 147kW; that is not going to happen, regardless of what Porsche might say.

      If the Porsche car indeed has an 800 V battery, that logically indicates that it will charge and its highest current and highest power level between 650v and 750v:

      400a * 650v = 260kW
      400a * 750v = 300kW

      They can say, however, that the new Porsche car can *use* a 350 kW station, but then so can a lowly Volkswagen eGolf or BMW i3 at 45kW.

      2) The energy consumption for the cooling system is mostly inconsequential, nor does the cooling system require for 380-480VAC three phase.

      3) Cost – You can buy a Tesla Supercharger for about $60,000, and regular ABB type charger for about $27,000. I’m going to guess that the cost for this unit will be closer to the Tesla price tag. But, we don’t even know if ChargePoint intends to sell these. They may deeply them as their own equipment, just like Tesla, Blink and AeroVironment has.

      1. Brandon says:

        Thank you so much for that info Tony. Good stuff. And good times ahead for electric cars!!!

  9. SparkEV says:

    Interesting, but can it use both handles simultaneously? If there’s Leaf plugged in and charging at 2 kW at high SoC, even 1 gigawatt unit would be effectively turned into 2 kW charger if the other handle cannot be used at the same time.

    Yes, I waited for Leaf charging at about 2kW out of 50 kW charger on several occasions. When I only need 5 minute of charge to get home, waiting almost 30 minutes for slow Leaf is beyond frustrating. Big part of that is free charging, but the other issue is that dual handle chargers only able to utilize one handle at a time.

    1. SparkEV says:

      Those cables are awfully short, so they may not be able to reach two cars per charger even if the electronics allow for it. That’s a shame. There are too many damn Leaf’s around, but hopefully with NCTC sunset (will they?), they won’t cause too many problems.

      1. Tom Moloughney says:

        The cables are 12 feet long. They are actually longer than the cables on just about any DC Fast charge currently in use.

        1. SparkEV says:

          I’m just going by the photos, and they look really short. Since you’re meeting them, please ask them if they can utilize both handle simultaneously.

          Another question is simultaneous usage four handle units since having one in middle of 4 parking stalls is maximum possible. While all four may not charge at peak power, they could come up with some load balancing via pricing and/or order in which the car was plugged-in.

          And, of course, pricing breakdown. It would be also great if you can get lot more technical info (schematics? BOM? parts list?), but I think that’s too much to ask. 🙂

    2. darth says:

      So why didn’t you just unplug the Leaf, charge for 5 minutes, then plug the Leaf back in?

      1. SparkEV says:

        If I unplug, that muscle bound Leaf driver will kick my butt. Even if she’s away, there’s a chance she could come back in that 5 minutes while I’m charging and kick my butt even harder.

        If she didn’t come back, and I plug it back in Leaf after my 5 minutes, I’d be paying for Leaf to charge. If she doesn’t come back for very long time, which happens more than I can count, I’ll have to pay “millions of dollars” for that stupid Leaf. Not all stations stop billing after 30 minutes.

        An interesting side note is that slow charging Leafs are over half the time Asian females, and taking dual head DCFC when Chademo is empty (Leafrackers) are always Asian females so far. What’s up with that?

        1. JyBicycleOrTesla says:

          Asian females are smarter than American females because they’re driving EVs?

          Or

          You live in a predominant Asian neighborhood.

          Or

          You’ve got a Asian fetish.

          1. SparkEV says:

            Purposely blocking EV from charging is NOT smarter. What, you’re going to claim a-holes that ICE charging spots with their SUV (or whatever crap car they have) are smarter than EV drivers?

            Neighborhoods that I encounter Leafrackers are predominantly white or Latino.

            I have female fetish and that includes Asians. So technically, you are correct about this point.

            Something else to note is that BMW i3 drivers are most courteous. As an example, one Asian lady with i3 unplugged her car that she just plugged in and let me charge; I only needed 10 minutes. She told me she gets free charge, just like Leaf. Leafrackers are not just about race or gender, but combination + Leaf; maybe Leaf brings out the worst in us.

            Sample size is small, but that’s been my experience.

  10. Tom Moloughney says:

    Keep the questions coming. I’m meeting with ChargePoint again today and will try to get as many questions answered as possible.

    1. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ sven says:

      These ChargePoint Express Plus chargers would look great in the Nauna’s Bella Casa parking lot. 😉

    2. Alan says:

      In order to get above 300 Kw charging per station, you are going to need one power cube per two charging stations ? Is that correct.

      So you will need 4 power cubes for a bank of 8 chargers, that’s a lot of juice !

    3. Kdawg says:

      Is Chargepoint messing around with wireless charging at all?

      What’s the max power they feel they could deliver to 1 vehicle (sedan, not a bus/truck) in future? Could they do 1MW?

      1. Terawatt says:

        Duh, of course. Delivering a huge amount of electrical power isn’t new or difficult, it’s been done in industry and in the grid backbone for a long time.

        Even if there are constraints on voltage it’s not complicated, just expensive, to use more current.

        The cars and being able to agree on standards and getting it all to work economically are the main challenges. Delivering enough power is relatively trivial.

    4. DougB says:

      Assuming the third port is for a Tesla charger. This will be useful as free charging is coming to an end.

    5. TM says:

      What is the division of energy when the charging site is full? Do all of the cars have to share X amount of KW between them? Just like the Tesla stations – if two cars are on the same pair of stations, they don’t get the maximum power.

      1. Terawatt says:

        Hopefully that’s up to an algorithm to decide, which means you can tune it whatever way you like. Being able to dynamically allocate is a great advantage, because it greatly improves overall utilization – but you obviously then design for less total power than that required to operate all ports at max power concurrently. Realistically you’ll hardly ever need that anyway, partly because different models have different technology onboard and partly because of different state of charge or internal temperature, and not all the ports are busy much of the time.

        In Europe where much of the grid is 3-phase 400V flexichargers outputting 22 kW make it simple and cheap to implement destination charging, but unfortunately only the ZOE has an onboard charger to take advantage. In condos, at malls, at hotels and restaurants these are a much better solution than DC chargers. Wireless is also a perfect fit for destination chargers, where you plan to stay connected for at least an hour and often more, since wireless of course can only transfer AC power, leading to the requirement that the charger must be onboard the vehicle.

        Considering how tiny the cost difference is when taking advantage of 3-phase power it’s a real pity it’s done so seldom. 22 kW is just 20A, and a wall charger that supports it costs less than 10% more to make than one for 6.6 kW at 230V.

        1. unlucky says:

          The increase in price of a 24′ (popular size) 22kW AC cable over a 24′ 7.2kW AC cable will probably add more than 10% to the price of the unit.

          So I don’t get why you think the charger price would only go up 10%.

    6. What are their plans for the existing Level 2 network? EVgo is emphasizing DC but they are also adding level 2s, for those of us that have non-DC capable cars (500e).

      1. ChargePoint has more AC charging locations than anybody, anywhere.

    7. Jay Donnaway says:

      The Power Cube appears to just be a rack of DC power supplies? The name and specs are vague. A DCFC with battery buffer could greatly reduce demand charges and possibly even pay for itself if able to perform demand mitigation for the host by returning AC power to the grid to offset peak demand (if not charging a car at that time).

      1. unlucky says:

        Powerful DC fast chargers are just many less powerful DC fast chargers (AC to DC converters) in parallel.

        Tesla’s design for superchargers just uses racks of the same charger they put onboard their cars. This is operating the same way. Multiple 31.5kW converters working in parallel in different configurations.

    8. speculawyer says:

      Can they tell is if there are any car makers committed to making cars that can actually use these fast charging speeds? (Besides just the Porsche Mission E)

      1. Charles says:

        No, it’s designed to be future proof for upcoming EVs.

  11. Someone out there says:

    Excellent! If you build it they will come.
    Now we just need the car manufacturers to actually make good on their concept promises

  12. mustang_sallad says:

    This is awesome. The power sharing architecture is important, especially for the foreseeable future while it’ll be rare to have a single station pull the full 400kW until we have more capable cars.

    I’m not clear on why some of the diagrams seem to suggest that, even with a Power Cube, the stations themselves still have two of their own 31.25kW power modules. Clearly the stations receive DC power from the Power Cube, why would they still need their own power modules in that case?

  13. Kdawg says:

    Can we use the VW Dieselgate money to install 500 of these across the US?

    1. Tom Moloughney says:

      They absolutely could be. The problem is it’s entirely VW’s call on what equipment they use. If they decide to use low quality, slower chargers than there no much we can do. CARB needs to approve VW’s plans in CA and the EPA does so for the rest of the country. Hopefully, the people in the oversight committees will require VW to use the “best” equipment currently available, but I’m very concerned about that.

  14. Mark Czajka says:

    What company is actually manufacturing these? Is the company in the US? Tritium or Efacec?

    1. Neither of those are US companies.

      Maybe BTC ? (California)

      1. Brandon says:

        That was my question too. Its probably not ChargePoint that’s actually manufacturing these, but some company like Trituim. Tritium was developing higher power DCFC. That was announced last Fall sometime.

        1. There is no shortage of companies working on this type of stuff and I know for a fact that BTC built a 400 amp charger for a German auto manufacturer.

          1. Brandon says:

            Interesting. Yes, no doubt any DCFC manufacturing company that wants to stay in the business is busy designing high power DCFC now.

            1. Brandon says:

              For the info, a few days later this article by Tom Moloughney has the info that this Expess Fast Charger that Chargepoint is going to sell is their own brand.

              http://insideevs.com/chargepoint-power-express-plus-400-kw-charger-further-details-exec-intervie/#comment-1127025

    2. Rick Siegle says:

      These are designed, developed and being built by ChargePoint – just like their L2 stations.

  15. WadeTyhon says:

    Love it! Other than EVGO, Chargepoint is my go to charging station when we are out of town.

    Nice to know that both of these companies have excellent fast charging coming down the pipeline soon.

    So, since it can support up to three connectors… do you think there is a chance Chargepoint will be offering Tesla customers fast charging without having to use a ChaDeMo adapter?

    1. mustang_sallad says:

      At some point, it’s going to make sense for Tesla to stop going it alone on infrastructure. Either they can adopt CCS on their cars, or alternatively, they could start chipping in to installations like these and have their plug installed.

      1. WadeTyhon says:

        Doesn’t Tesla make the charging standard patents available for other manufacturers to use?

        If so, Tesla doesn’t necessarily have to actively partner with them do they? Could Chargepoint just be seeing an opportunity? The Model 3 is nearly here, free supercharging is going away and Tesla about to drastically expand the number of cars it sells.

        With hundreds of thousands of Model 3s on the road over the next few years, those cars will need to be charged somewhere!

      2. Trollnonymous says:

        Tesla has had a Chad adapter for their cars for a while now, maybe 2 years?
        So Tesla owners with the adapters have even a wider selection of chargers.

      3. You do recognize that this new ChargePoint station will not charge a current Tesla any faster than a Supercharger, correct?

        There is absolutely no advantage to have this over a Supercharger.

        Having said that, it certainly isn’t out of the realm of possibility that ChargePoint can convince Tesla to allow them to put a Tesla plug on the stations for the millions of Tesla cars and trucks that will be available in the coming years.

        When Tesla comes out with a 750 kW to 1 MW charger are you then going to suggest that current CCS cars must have Tesla plugs in order to complete? There is no way that Tesla is going to install a foreign protocol charge inlet on their vehicle unless required by government regulation.

        1. mustang_sallad says:

          It doesn’t matter that current Teslas wouldn’t charge any faster on this than on a supercharger. My point is that eventually, Tesla is probably going to want to benefit from all of the government, utility and VW money that’s going into charging infrastructure. They wisely charged ahead on their own infrastructure because they were way ahead of the industry on that front back in 2013, but that’s clearly changing.

          1. At first glance, this appears to be another iteration of, “Tesla must conform to the board and adopt CCS or die” that CCS cheerleaders spew over and over,

            But, it would be interesting if Volkswagen actually paid to have Tesla Supercharger compatible plugs put in the ground. I very seriously doubt that will happen for the simple reason that they are not required to do it, and the more obvious reason that Tesla is their competitor.

        2. ClarksonCote says:

          Tony, there is a huge benefit to have this in addition to Supercharger for Teslas… additional charge points when SCs are busy or when an area lacks an SC station. Nothing wrong with flexibility! 🙂

          1. Yes, more fast chargers in logical locations makes the most sense.

  16. Alan says:

    I’m assuming that the recent tweet by Elon regarding rapid charging, they are going to come out with something close to 1000 kw charging, pushing the bar higher all the time.

    1. Scott Franco says:

      More 4 times the battery capacity does not make sense. And much more than 50kWh does not make sense for EVs, since the drag to push ratio is bad[1]

      [1] Drag is the cost of carrying the battery weight, push is the actual amount of power used to make the car go forward.

      1. Well, Nissan said that no car would ever need more than 24 kWh!!!!

        I have bad news for you! Cars are going to have more than 50 kWh and people will also have purebred bird hunting dogs in their apartment, four-wheel-drive vehicles in their sunny Southern California garages, and golf clubs design for experts and used by duffers.

        That statement reminds me of the old-school “Plug in America” crowd that made claims that you didn’t even need public charging infrastructure. They lost.

  17. mustang_sallad says:

    Tom – ask ChargePoint about how they share the DC output across multiple stations. Each car is going to have a battery at a very different DC voltage, so are they using individual DC-DC converters for each station? Or are they using some kind of architecture that allows them to split up the individual power modules in the Power Cube?

    1. Charles says:

      They show an example of the configuration here: http://www.chargepoint.com/products/commercial/express-plus/

  18. Alan says:

    Are there any limits per site to what rapid car charging stations can use if they are grid tied ?

    Imaging a future service station where all cars are rapid charging at the same time, the lights would go out locally !

  19. TM says:

    Any comments about what EV cars today can utilize is nearly meaningless. This batch of EVs we have on the road today is a drop in the bucket compared to the # of EVs on the road in 5 yrs.

    1. Brandon says:

      Exactly!! And it’s time now in 2017 for the DCFC providers to be planning out the best sites for multi stall DCFC like these that will dominate the future.

  20. DougB says:

    Assuming the powercube is a battery storage unit to help reduce instantaneous power demands on the grid connection. Would be interesting to know the size of that battery.

    1. If there were batteries in there, they would’ve advertised it. Tesla has batteries at some Supercharger sites and they’ll do a lot more of it in the future.

      There is no other way to cost-effectively make these very high-powered charging stations viable in places that have huge utility demand fees, like California. Pulling 1 MW from the grid in San Diego could cost $27,000 per month in just fees.

      So, to be clear, this is a product to charge vehicles. There are still other issues involved with connecting that product to the grid depending on where that grid is located.

  21. Chris C says:

    Roast me for being stupid but what’s the point of the Power Cubes?

    Does it serve as a buffer between the AC grid and the EVSEs so the operator doesn’t have to pay for higher amperage service to the EVSEs?

    And/or for solar?

    1. Mike I. says:

      The system is built on 31kW modules. Each station has two modules and the Power Cube can have up to 16 modules. If any car needs more than 156A or 62.5kW, the system will assign more modules from the Cube to that station, increasing the power delivered to the vehicle that needs it.

    2. The “power cube” is nothing but the unit that converts 380 to 480 V AC three phase power to DC power.

      Since the “dispensing units” themselves are capable of independently operating at up to 62.5 kW, the power cube is really a power booster. This is different than the Superchargers, because the dispensing unit has no AC electronics in it at all. It is merely a place to house the cable and plug. All the high voltage AC electronics are located in a box very similar to this power cube concept.

      This is different than the transformer which converts much higher voltage AC power from the grid and steps it down to 380 or 480 V AC.

      1. unlucky says:

        The graphics clearly state the “dispensing units” have converters in them also. The cube just adds more that, as you say, can be assigned to either station on a minute-by-minute basis.

        It does seem odd to me that you would have 31kW converters in the cube and the stations in the configuration when you have a cube. That means you have to have parallel AC and DC conductors between the cube and the stations I think. That doesn’t make a ton of sense to me.

        Still, I love the design in principle and can’t wait to see it roll out.

  22. Trollnonymous says:

    The picture shows multiple stations. Most out in the wild have only one and if you’re lucky there are 2. It doesn’t mention if you can use the CCS and Chad at the same time. It would be even better if you could but I have never encountered one where you can.

    What current EV’s can charge faster than 80KW on CCS or Chad???

    1. Mike I. says:

      My understanding is that Soul EV and Ioniq EV can charge at up to 100kW. I don’t know the specifics of their limits though.

      1. 200a * 500v = 100kW

        First, these cars do not have 500v batteries and even if they did, they couldn’t charge at the highest voltage at the highest amperage at the same time. No car can.

        So, while those two cars may be able to handle 200a, the actual maximum charge rate for their 400v battery will be closer to 70-75 kW:

        200a * 350v = 70kW
        200a * 375v = 75kW

        1. Terawatt says:

          Correct. The Soul was charged at 70 kW by running a 120 kW DCFC station out of spec for demonstration purposes in Norway about a year ago:

          https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/opens-120-kw-ev-charger-public-leif-richard-bones-egge

  23. Trollnonymous says:

    Even better is if charging locations followed this real life example

    1. DJ says:

      That is really cool. I think it’s clear that with all the infrastructure costs needed to be incurred to make quick EV charging a reality solutions like this make a lot of sense. You don’t have to wire up a charging location for 3,200 kW if they want 8 of these bad boys installed. I’m not saying they can get away with 300kW service but something definitely less than 3,200 and then you have the units talk to one another. The downside is at times maybe everyone can’t charge at the peak rate but I don’t see that as a huge deal.

      1. Trollnonymous says:

        In it’s basic form, minus the ultrasonic sensors, it’s the same idea as emotorwerks Pro series EVSE’s….

        “You can program your JuiceBox Pro units to never exceed 40A combined draw. If only one car is charging, it gets full 40A of current. When the second car shows up, the current gets shared 20A / 20A between the two. When one of the cars finishes charging, the remaining car ramps back to 40A.”

        https://emotorwerks.com/store-juicebox-ev-charging-stations/202-juicebox-pro-40-smart-40-amp-evse-with-24-foot-cable/category_pathway-23

        Clipper Creek has a similar function.

        1. Quick Charge Power LLC designed, manufacturerd (in the USA), and sold the 80 amp cables used by the Cal Tech / Jet Propulsion Laboratory for this project.

          1. Trollnonymous says:

            OK TDub youdda Man!!!!

      2. Bill Howland says:

        Oh, I think 8 stations would have 2 powercubes maximum – so 1050 kw from the ac mains. Seeing as in the states, the demand charges – especially ‘on-peak’ are going to be relatively high, they would have GREAT incentive to throttle the peak and it would also allow operation from a relatively inexpensive 1600 amp main service.

        The newest L2 chargepoint installations by me (4 cars maximum) all throttle the 30 amp output down to 15 amps when the adjacent stall is used, so if a business owner is too cheap to provide 24 kw to 4 cars and provides 12 kw instead, there will be even more incentive to keep the peak demand here to reasonable levels.

        My question on ALL these articles is, who precisely is paying for this party, and if the car driver is doing a pay-as-you-go, what are the charging costs to the driver?

        Apparently other commenters are now asking the same question.

        1. unlucky says:

          The throttling at your local ChargePoint is due to a choice in how they are installed. The dual chargers are supposed to be installed with dual 40A circuits. But they can be installed to share a single 40A circuit if there is no other option. It is unfortunate your business owners chose the latter.

          I’m not sure why you see paying for charging as a new issue for this. This isn’t 2010. There are several major charging networks in place, ChargePoint, SEMA, evGO, Greenlots, etc. and they all are capable and willing to bill for charging.

          I do understand your concern about demand charges. For stations that operate during the day they’ll either have to charge a lot more or install an energy storage system. We’ll work this out. Availability of high power charging will drive demand and demand will drive improvements and implementations. We do have more to do to make EVs mainstream but it’s far from hopeless.

  24. DJ says:

    Yet another reason why many of us think the whole SC network is cool but not an actual big reason to buy a Tesla.

    For a lot of us we have virtually no need for a SC station and we all knew sooner or later there were going to be better offerings coming down the pipeline and with likely more of them placed around town.

    Here’s to hoping they get some of them in place. Of course now the manufacturers need to start putting out the vehicles that can actually accept such high charge rates 😀

    1. Nix says:

      Yes, the current Tesla Supercharger massive market advantage will likely end sometime between 2019 and 2021 with all the 300+ range EV’s that have been announced as planned for release by then.

      Until then, Tesla’s advantage will actually get even bigger with these new chargers being installed. Because they are the only company that currently builds cars that can charge at 120 kW+ that can fully benefit from these chargers. For the near future, Tesla owners will get the most benefit from these high speed chargers, with now 2 choices of chargers to use for 120+ kW charging. They will be able to use both networks, while all other EV’s will only have much slower charging rates on this network only.

  25. Mike I. says:

    This is freaking awesome. If you ignore for a moment the cars that don’t exist and just look at what this architecture can do compared to SuperChargers on 400VDC vehicles, it compares very well. Even the lowest configuration of two stations with no Power Cube, each station has 2 power modules each and if only one is in use, all the power can go to one connector. That would be 4 x 78A = 312A A large battery Tesla (85/90/100 kWh) starts to taper at about 360 VDC. That means that this configuration can deliver 312A x 360V = 112kW to one car. Supercharger is slightly better, but it would only matter at very low SOC and the charging time difference would be minimal. The addition of the Power Cube to the system just makes it so that you don’t have to share power between stations and each car can charge at its full rate.

    Tesla should work with ChargePoint to make the third connection available with their proprietary North American (TSL02) connector. That would allow Tesla vehicles to use these stations without an adapter.

  26. Mark C says:

    As Tesla will be charging for some Supercharger usage {above a base amount} in the future, Chargepoint may add a Tesla plug.

    The benefit of a Tesla plug would be for those traveling who would have to detour to reach a Supercharger, but could save time by using one of these high output chargers.

  27. speculawyer says:

    Anyone able to build a car to actually use these?

    1. Yes, of course, Tesla.

      The new Faraday Future is kind of counting on this public charging at work at “200kW”.

      I don’t know what the Lucid Air is going to need, but I suspect they’re counting on public charging also.

      1. SparkEV says:

        That’s why FF will fail as a luxury car. When you’re waiting 30 minutes to charge behind Leaf or two that’s charging at 2kW using 400kW charger, you’ll trade in that > $100K car for a gasser. Unless FF set up their own infrastructure limiting / preventing low power cars, it’s not much more luxury than SparkEV. Well, maybe tiny bit more luxury.

    2. Mike I. says:

      “Actually using” and “taking full advantage of” are completely different things. Every EV on the market that can DC Fast Charge can use these chargers. Most cars will only take 40-ish kW just like they do from the currently available 50kW stations.

  28. Four Electrics says:

    When your charging station uses as much power as 400 homes, you begin to have trouble quickly bringing in power to certain (especially urban) locations. Perhaps they should buffer with hydrogen. 🙂

    1. SparkEV says:

      Interesting idea, except you’d need close to 800 kW FC with almost 400 kW of heat due to inefficiency. Perhaps that could be a possibility next to companies that require massive amounts of intermittent heat. Refineries come to mind.

    2. unlucky says:

      In the US homes use more than 1kW.

      Urban and rural present different problems. Urban areas typically have a powerful grid already, rural can be a far more expensive problem to solve.

      Putting a high speed charging station on a rural highway can require running miles or maybe even tens of miles of wire.

      1. Bill Howland says:

        Of course those are all generalizations also, and before I purchased ev’s, my usage in the spring and fall averaged less than 500 watts on average (under 360 kw/month), with perhaps a 6 kw maximum due to the hot tub pumps. Now, with the cars charging, I peak out at worst case around 10 kw, but then again I have a relatively large house with alot of electric toys (hot tub, central air conditioning for the whole joint, basement freezer, Sauna, and the full complement of regular appliances – although the huge amount of energy they use is Methane, the electric requirements are relatively small.

        The utility will put in pretty much whatever you pay them to do – it is always the customer that ends up reducing the scope of his requirements.

        When Verizon was putting in its TV station in Buffalo NY (which handled all the video routers and pay per view for all of NY State outside of NYC-LI, they initially wanted to add a 750 kva transformer, and this was in a congested uptown area of the city.

        The power company (British owned National Grid) would only allow a 500 kva transformer, otherwise they wanted a ‘customer contribuiton’ for an enlargement of their substation. What they wanted actualy would have cancelled the project and the TV station would have been installed someplace else outside of Buffalo.

        We ended up turning the existing dual-ended dual 500 kva unit substation (Verizon owned) into a single ended unit, thereby effectively not increasing our load theoretically one bit to also save on the demand charges and avoid installation of a third Medium Voltage service. In practice both services are now loaded to the Brim in the summertime since the facility requires a huge amount of air conditioning.

        I suppose people would balk at a Natural Gas (methane) Fired Gen-Set to run the Fast chargers someplace in a rural area, where the cost of a 1 megawatt feed was deemed prohibitive.

  29. Bill Howland says:

    This whole group of products at first blush seems pretty well thought out.

    My only concern is the ChargePoint L2 stations are the biggest hunks of junk that we have in my area (we haven’t suffered the horrendous (ON THE) BLINK things which take the all time Loser Prize.

    Besides the most common problem of the holsters failing to release ( I talked to one tech who told me those things notoriously fail all the time and he’s made a career over going out and fixing them) – Locking the connector in the charging dock holster is a brain-dead idea to begin with.

    When I ever find one that you have to spend 3 minutes at wrestling with it to release the holster, I just don’t plug it in when I’m done so the next person doesn’t have to wrestle with it.

    The newer ‘video screen’ models (the ones that can throttle) have even MORE LOUSY holster locks.

    So my very basic question is:

    If CP can’t get 15-30 amps done half-way decently, how are they going to struggle with 1000 amps?

    1. I very seriously doubt ChargePoint is building anything. BTC, Tritium, or some other company is.

      1. Bill Howland says:

        Junk is still Junk and it doesn’t answer my question. Who cares where it is actually made?

  30. wavelet says:

    Disappointing.
    Zero Motorcycles had to drop a project to add DCFC a few year back.
    The CCS standard starts at 200V, and Zero’s battery voltage are ~100V nominal, so that wasn’t an option — however, the CHAdeMO standard starts at 50V, so they developed an onboard charger accessory based on this, and it worked fine the lab.

    However, it turned out that in practice, most CHAdeMO DCFC stations violate the spec don’t work below 200V (most EVs are after all 400V). There was a whole bunch of additional issues as well to do with electrical noise, damaging the bike’s CANbus, etc.
    Most charging-station vendors showed no interest in fixing their products, so Zero had to abandon the project.
    It is very disappointing for a brand-new product claiming to support CHAdeMO to also violate the standard, after issue is already well known in the industry.

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