Cadillac Chief Marketing Officer: “The ELR Is A Big Disappointment”

1 year ago by Eric Loveday 72

Cadillac ELR

Cadillac ELR

Cadillac's Uwe Ellinghaus

Cadillac’s Uwe Ellinghaus

In Dubai, for Cadillac’s first ever world debut outside of the U.S. (Cadillac XT5 CUV), Cadillac chief marketing officer Uwe Ellinghaus was in attendance and Automobile magazine quickly took the opportunity to question him on the future and recent past of Cadillac.

At one point during the interview, the topic of discussion was the Cadillac ELR.

Automobile magazine asked:

“When you first came on board, you said that a car like the ELR was a priority for you. Is it still that way given where it’s at saleswise? And also, how important do you feel hybrid and alternative powertrain technology and Super Cruise and things like that … getting that kind of stuff across your lineup is important?”

To which Ellinghaus replied (in condensed form):

“Put it this way: The ELR’s a big disappointment; there’s no denying, yet still I want it, and want it because it is a statement how progressive how Cadillac is and that we can tackle electromobility in the brand.”

“So a coupe two-seat is already limited, right? Then, we spec’d it to the maximum degree and said we don’t want a rolling declaration of sacrifices, and I approved that as well and said, no, we don’t. We didn’t want to position it as a green car, right? So I like the luxury features, but it priced it into a level where people started comparing it to, dare I say it, the Tesla. And then they said it has the same price. Nonsense, because our car comes fully equipped and the Tesla is completely naked. But the Tesla is a four-door, right?”

“And that’s why my outtake is; we no longer go down this road that we have a certain car that has the electric credentials, the green credentials. Going forward, we’ll simply add plug-in hybrid-electric modes into almost all our cars.”

Basically, Ellinghaus is saying that the ELR was a niche car (a tiny niche at that) and was destined for failure from the get go.

Then, Automobile magazine question Ellinghuas on the electric versus hydrogen debate

“Speaking of future propulsion, there’s a lot of talk about electric versus hydrogen fuel cells.”

Ellinghaus replied (again, in condensed form):

“Hydrogen is infrastructure. I have some experiences there. I worked for BMW for 15 years. I say one thing: If you look at the environmental balance of electromobility as it is now, it makes no sense whatsoever. Nobody wants to hear it. But as long as the majority of the energy is generated from fossil fuels … and that’s about 80 percent right? U.S. … the environmental balance is negative.”

“…I do believe that very long-term hydrogen is really the way … but I also realize that this industry needs to change its thinking in boxes, and in, let’s say, their own way forward because hydrogen failed. Even in Germany, where the government for a while was very excited about it, two leading manufacturers could simply not agree on the approach.”

For the full interview, click the source link below.

Source: Automobile

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72 responses to "Cadillac Chief Marketing Officer: “The ELR Is A Big Disappointment”"

  1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

    Who does he think he’s fooling? The Cadillac ELR was made in only compliance car numbers. GM was never serious about making this into a car which would sell well.

    I realize that he, just like every other corporate spokesman, must stick to the “corporate line” whether it has any relation to the truth or not, but it’s rather insulting that they apparently think the average person is gullible enough to swallow such obvious bilgewater. They should at least try to make their lies — oh, sorry, their “spin” — plausible.

    1. SparkEV says:

      I don’t think ELR was compliance, but a big mistake by GM. When they push a hybrid (that’s what ELR is) that cost as much as Tesla and performs poorer, of course the sales will disappoint.

      What they should’ve done is put two SparkEV motors or better (300+ HP) as AWD with 250+ miles range and price it under $50K as low end Tesla.

      To make it work back then with fewer DCFC, they should’ve added CCS/Chademo in all their dealers which would’ve brought in potential customers. But no such forethought in GM management.

      1. Josh says:

        I agree that the ELR was a big mistake, but I don’t see how they would have produced a dual motor all-wheel-drive luxury BEV with 250+ mile range for $50k. Nobody can do that yet, which is pretty much the whole issue.

        I think it made sense to reuse the Voltec drivetrain they spent tons of money on. But the ELR should have come out 1 year ahead of the Volt for $55k. People that were fighting to be first on their block with a top plug-in would have paid the premium.

        The Volt would have followed with a price tag of $40k and looked like a deal in comparison. Rinse and repeat in Gen 2.

        1. SparkEV says:

          What you propose might work without Tesla. But when Tesla offers viable all electric alternative, paying premium for hybrid won’t work, especially when the performance isn’t there.

          Tesla S70D with 250 miles range is $65K (post subsidy). GM with economy of scale could pull off even lower price. Considering they could reuse parts from different models (eg, SparkEV motors), $50K isn’t out of reach. They could even go all out and make highly aero shape body to get even more range.

          1. zzzzzzzzzz says:

            Subsidies have limits, so if you discount subsidy, you can’t apply “economy of scale”, because subsidies will go away whey you reach the scale. And it isn’t just $7k+$2.5k on buyer side, CARB gives 4 (7 before) credits, they were for sale $5000 before (I don’t now latest market price, they make secret out of it). This is fine, but it will not work once you scale it up, so it isn’t very attractive for mass auto-maker. Especially considering that $80 is “naked” price for no-options base.

            1. SparkEV says:

              What is $5000 and $80? Your post is confusing. Do you mean $50k and $80K? Even that doesn’t make sense.

        2. Spider-Dan says:

          I think the ELR should have either come out ~$10K more than the Volt (at which price point it’s clearly best in class for EVs) or around $90K with the dual motor system as mentioned.

          If you’re going to compete with Tesla, then compete with Tesla. If you’re not, then don’t. The ELR came out at a price point that indicated that they didn’t know what they wanted it to be.

      2. RexxSee says:

        Not a mistake, they knew what they were doing for not sell the Cadillac and complaint after that there is a lack of demand.

      3. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        SparkEV

        “I don’t think ELR was compliance, but a big mistake by GM.”

        Auto makers plan on how many of a certain model they want to produce in a year. They can’t always anticipate the level of demand, but they must always make an estimate so they have something on which to base the unit prices, and so they can plan for which assembly lines to use for production.

        Whether or not the ELR was literally a compliance car, it certainly was one which Cadillac obviously never made in significant numbers. If it had, then unsold ELRs would have accumulated on dealer lots in record numbers.

        And that is why we know that what Mr. Uwe Ellinghaus is simply not telling the truth when he says the ELR was “a big disappointment” and “We didn’t want to position it as a green car”.

        I have no doubt that Cadillac was indeed disappointed at the sales of the ELR, because they slashed the originally rather inflated price quite a bit, down to something more reasonable. But given the very low production, they must have already been anticipating low sales, so it couldn’t have been that big a disappointment.

        1. SparkEV says:

          Low production doesn’t mean compliance. More than likely, GM wanted to test the waters. What the “geniuses” forgot is the big bad monster called Tesla with far superior product, and they got trounced in market (and rightly so).

          Another odd thing about Cadillac is their target market. I’m guessing they’re trying to reach younger buyers, but with overpriced Volt that underperforms BMW i3? It seems so obvious.

  2. Mike says:

    Did he attempt to say the ELR was good value?
    It was a glittered up Volt for 2.5 the cost – how can that be good value.
    Not even Caddy buyers are that dumb

    1. Epicurus says:

      GM still has a lot of idiots working for it evidently.

      1. Assaf says:

        Yeah, I think it’s time for CEO Barra to have a Serious Chat with this douchebag.

  3. Mike616 says:

    I guess it’s a Marketing Failure.
    If they truly believe this is a $70,000 car, they should have been able to PROVE IT to the buyer.

    What features brought it to $70,000.
    Or, was it Priced to Fail.
    I mean, who does the statistical analysis of buyers and what they will buy at what price points?

    1. Fabian says:

      I had two Caddy dealerships, after a few rounds, come down to 53k out the door on two ELRs; then the Bolt was announced and I lost my interest.

      Still, the ELR could be had in the low 50’s if you work at it. That was an OK deal in my eyes and it’s a good looking ride.

    2. Tim says:

      In fairness, they tried to convince people it was a $76k car ($83k if you also got the good stuff). When it became a $50k-$60k car, people got more interested.

      Funny, that.

  4. Mike616 says:

    For example. The BMW i3, is the most advanced 4 person passenger “green” car out there, and you can get one with most of the options for $50,000.

    1. goaterguy says:

      Wait what?

      1. Aaron says:

        Yes, you can squeeze 4 people into an i3, just like you can with an i-MiEV. (Both have almost the same passenger capacity measurements.)

        It’s telling that BMW doesn’t show the i3 in their commercials, but the i8 is there, along with all the other models.

    2. MDEV says:

      Advance because is plastic like a Lego toy? I don’t think so.

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        Well, the BMW i3 is the BEV that gets the most miles per kWh, for any passenger car big enough to hold 4 people. So in that respect, it is the most “advanced”. You could also argue that the carbon fiber composite body makes it advanced, altho I think we need to see how well that works over a few years before passing judgement.

        Whether it’s the most advanced EV overall is, of course, a matter of opinion.

        1. SparkEV says:

          It’s true that it is matter of opinion, but if one’s giving subjective scores in various aspects, i3 would have to be the most cutting edge IMO. Carbon fiber is one, battery cooling is another.

          Whether they are effective or not, that’s separate scoring.

    3. Tim says:

      Why does “advanced” have to be ugly?

  5. Assaf says:

    As they say: once an incompetent idiot – always an incompetent idiot.

  6. arne-nl says:

    “But as long as the majority of the energy is generated from fossil fuels”

    “…I do believe that very long-term hydrogen is really the way”

    Uhm, it’s the other way around.

    Hydrogen is made from fossil fuels and electricity is renewable. Most owners of EV’s, either have solar panels or buy renewable energy from their energy company. Or both.

    1. Anon says:

      This illustrates why having a healthy, uncorrupted corporate culture is sooooo important. Repeat a lie, over and over, and people will believe it:

      “Hydrogen is clean, renuable and sustainable. BEVs are not.”

      1. ffbj says:

        A web of lies, supported by a diaphanous tissues of unsupported conclusions and suppositions. Right? As in: “Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.”
        Of course since it could be viewed as self-deception it could be viewed as incompetence rather than out right lying. I wonder if the first said the quote above considered self-deception, though usually it means to deceive others, usually as in not owning up to something you did wrong, which GM is quite used to.

    2. zzzzzzzzzz says:

      You can’t charge a car from solar when you return home at sunset as most people do. You just sell you solar to grid at teaser retail price and charge from fossil fuel electricity later. Current grid demand already forms daily “duck” pattern in places like CA Bay area. It means day solar getting worth very little, or that grid can’t take any more solar without full backup from natural gas turbines that can be turned on in seconds instead of days for older plants. It just doesn’t scale at all. To scale it up, you need hydrogen (power-to-gas) that enables seasonal storage of intermittent wind/solar. Yes, it is distant future.

      1. ffbj says:

        Incomplete and biased analysis.

      2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        zzzzzzzzzz said:

        “To scale it up, you need hydrogen (power-to-gas) that enables seasonal storage of intermittent wind/solar.”

        Why in the world would you want to throw away half the energy generated by solar panels, by using it to generate hydrogen?

        We certainly do need a better solution to storing large amounts of energy for hours or days. A solution which can be used anywhere, not just where large water reservoirs are conveniently located for pumped hydro storage. But hydrogen is a very poor solution, and basic physics prevent any significant improvements. Batteries are already better when considered as a long-term investment, and are getting better every year.

  7. franky_b says:

    I was interested in the ERL, I wanted the ELR, I test drive the ELR and loved it.

    But it was priced 15K$ out my budget and I ended up going for the i3 REX that brought me more value for the money. I never looked at the Tesla as it didn’t make economic sense to me (emphasis on the ME here, so don’t give comparables with the Tesla, I did it)

    When dealer price ELR around 60K$, 55K$ before incentive, they have no problem selling it, funny he never mentioned that.

    1. R.S says:

      People just noticed it wasn’t worth its money. Like you said, 55-60k would have been the right price. They should not have seen it as a competition for Tesla, but a addition to their Volt lineup. Because thats what most people compared it to. And claiming that the extra equipment was 35k, is unbelievable. I would even say, that if there were no Volt, the ERL might have sold in much higher quantities. Audi sells some VW cars, like the A3 and they make it look nicer and therefor its a bit more expensive. But doubling the price because of Bose speakers and leather?

      1. Ambulator says:

        Don’t forget the electric cup holders.

        I realize Cadillac owners have a different esthetic than I do, but that is getting silly.

      2. Loboc says:

        I’ve had both Volt and ELR. ELR is quite a bit more than ‘Bose and leather’ and power cupholders. Heck, my Volt had Bose and leather.

        In every way from the ground up, ELR is better than Volt. It’s just not $40k better. More like $15k better.

        – Volt still does not have ACC
        – ELR’s Bose is better than Volt’s
        – CUE is better than myLink (even though some people complain, it’s better)
        – Suspension and wheel/tire package is superior. Even way superior.
        – Sport mode is better
        – Volt doesn’t even have available power seats like it’s Cruze sibling. ELR is standard.
        – Because of Bose noise suppression, ELR is quieter than Volt with the exact same engine.
        – ELR’s styling is not surpassed by any other car on the road at any price.
        – ELR is exclusive. Only ~2400 built.
        – Even the little things, like auto up-down windows is better in ELR.
        – Two paddles are better than one.

        1. James says:

          @Loboc – I’ll agree with you on the power seats. When more than one family member drives the car – a memory seat feature could be golden.

          Then again, I’ve never prioritized such things or owned a hybrid with power seats or sunroof. I can live without them to get 53-63 electric miles per charge.

        2. Bill Howland says:

          Loboc , I’ll reply to you since this article really has brought out more than the usual uninformed comments by all the self-styled armchair quarterbacks.

          I too, have a VOlt and ELR, and I’m very satisfied with both of them.

          I find that wherever I go, Absolutely every one, Including my V-8 HOTROD neighbor, Just absolutely LOVES the car.

          It cost me $4000 more than the Volt and enabled a great trade.

        3. Tim says:

          Agree with pretty much everything you’ve said. Went from Volt to ELR.

    2. SJC says:

      The ELR was priced initially at $75,000 whoever made that decision was THE disappointment.

  8. LonestarV says:

    4x the price per Kwh than the Tesla and 39 miles AER?

    He’s right that it can’t be compared to a Tesla.

    1. pjwood1 says:

      Fuel costs, per mile, are wiped out by the per mile depreciation of a car approaching $100k. A $40k-50k ELR transaction is a different ball game.

      Last weekend a gas station had $1.99 87 octane, vs. $2.69 premium. GM scores again, changing Voltec to run on 87.

      If Tesla lets it happen, the long-term fuel and mechanical bills are where their owners will “make it all back”.

  9. Loboc says:

    ELR is a really good car at 1.5x Volt’s price. At 2.5x it’s way over priced for what it does.

    Mine was MSRP @ $80860. Transaction was $53k and I got $10k in gov’t incentives. So, $43k for an $81k car. $53k is about 1.2x of my Volt’s MSRP.

    Being part of GM, I don’t believe that Cadillac will ever compete head-to-head with the Germans. They have languished in mediocrity too long and have pushed re-badged Chevy’s on the public for too long.

    The X-whatever-caddy I drove as a loaner was pathetic compared to even a Japanese car.

    ELR is the best car I have ever owned or driven. And that’s a LOT of cars.

    If Cadillac can get their quality and luxury up to world standards, they may survive. It’s gonna be a long, long road. Having their boss’ put down the highest tech car they have fielded to date isn’t helping.

    1. Open-Mind says:

      The ELR was a bad idea that was very well executed, then overpriced. It’s a 2-door Volt with a $40,000 interior.

      Cadillac can easily beat the Germans when they’re not brilliantly engineering bad ideas. Case in point … this recent review:

      http://www.motorweek.org/reviews/road_tests/2016-cadillac-cts-v

      From that review:

      Now, we know that many sport sedan aficionados will never be convinced that a four-door designed anywhere but Germany is worth a second look. But, if you have an open mind, then you’ll see where we’re coming from when we say that hands down, the 2016 Cadillac CTS-V beats all comers in the traditional European sport sedan category in every way! And we’re just ecstatic to be along for the ride.

  10. pjwood1 says:

    GM’s drive train talent and Cadillac’s customers are pretty much irreconcilable. I love seeing the ELR on the road, however, and hope DeNysschen has the courage to make Cadillac’s product a worthy halo, for all of GM.

  11. offib says:

    What a shame… They saw what they did and brought out a 2016 model that made perhaps one of the best midlife refreshes I’ve ever seen – and for what?

    The dealers don’t want to see it again and buyers don’t know about the new model either. Sad to see it go this way.

    At least on the bright side, the few ELRs that are left will be held as jewels sometime in the future. To add, they will last for being well engineered and reliable, not very like the rest of the Cadillac fleet.

  12. Epicurus says:

    Did GM ever really try to sell it? I never saw one commercial for it. They don’t even try to sell the Volt which is a much better value.

    It was way overpriced too. Who would buy it over a Tesla?

    1. Tim says:

      Me. Because the price wasn’t really the price. You’re right though. GM botched it. For sure it wasn’t gonna sell huge because no two door coupes do, but it’s a good car at the right price.

  13. Loboc says:

    “It was way overpriced too. Who would buy it over a Tesla?”

    I would. And did. Has anybody seen the actual statistics about Tesla reliability? Not good.

    As far as being overpriced, that’s just not so. Yeah the MSRP of ALL GMs is overpriced, but, the actual transaction deals hardly go there except for a few very early adopters. Leases on early ELR’s was very reasonable (~$500) compared to Tesla.

    1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      Different people value things differently. And that’s a good thing, because otherwise trade would be impossible; if everyone valued everything the same, then nobody would ever buy or sell anything.

      But I think the consensus is clear that Cadillac greatly overpriced the ELR when it first came out. If it hadn’t, then dealers wouldn’t have had to slash the price by between $12,000 and $13,600, as reported in the article linked below:

      http://www.torquenews.com/2250/drastic-price-cuts-place-cadillac-elr-where-it-should-have-been-all-along

      Bottom line: Loboc, if you think you paid a good price for your ELR, then nobody should say you’re wrong. The price anyone is willing to pay for something is a matter of individual choice. But clearly most potential buyers were not willing to pay that much.

    2. SJC says:

      An ELR with 24,000 miles is selling for $38,000 in California. Losing so much in the first year or two is expensive.

  14. Loboc says:

    “Going forward, we’ll simply add plug-in hybrid-electric modes into almost all our cars.”

    I don’t get this strategy. What current hybrid, that has the same body as an ICE car, sells well? Now you’re not doing differentiation at all. You’re doing ‘Yep, we have hybrids. Check.’.

    Hybrid electric in a luxury car has to work with the superior drive-ability of an electric. Emphasize the smooth, quiet ride not the green-washing. Maybe even up-sell it instead of also-ran it.

  15. Mark C says:

    As I recall, it didn’t really matter what Cadillac the maker did, when Cadillac the dealerships largely refused to sell them.

    Was it too much money, yes. Was it a nice car, yes. Was it widely available, NO.

    1. ffbj says:

      Yes, well who would want that albatross hung around their neck?

  16. Koenigsegg says:

    The price was a disappointment.

    Now you can get them in the low 40’s, high 30’s which is a reasonable price.

    Still rather get the new Volt though

  17. Murrysville EV says:

    Price is not the ELR’s problem; it’s PERFORMANCE.

    If it was a 4-door and performed like a Tesla, it would have done well. But it’s tiny inside, and a dog on the street.

    If price was the issue, Tesla’s worldwide sales wouldn’t have surpassed 100,000 cars, while the ELR is less than 2300.

    1. David Murray says:

      Sorry.. It was definitely the price. Unless you could make the argument that for $80,000 you expect more performance. Most of us are making the opposite argument that for the performance it gives, $80,000 is too much.

      1. Murrysville EV says:

        Many other Cadillacs (and other nameplates for that matter) sell for $75k, but people accept that price because the car performs.

        Pricing the ELR lower would have provided a better match to its performance, but it still wouldn’t have fixed the performance. Then, it would truly have been Cimarron 2.0.

        The ELR’s performance was mismatched to the rest of the brand’s promoted image.

  18. Just_Chris says:

    Is there an argument to say that the ELR was too early and mislabelled? If it had come out when there were a lot more PHEV’s around then maybe people would have expected less and just seen it as an expansion of PHEV’s across the brand.

    I can’t help but notice the Porsche Panna-cotta sitting next to the ELR in the sales table. This is seen largely as a successful car (or rather not a total failure). I think like most things in the electric GM world, the technology was ok but the marketing, expectation and execution was shocking. If they had said we are releasing a small exclusive luxurious PHEV and marketed it as a very exclusive version of the volt then may be the BS would have been closer to reality.

    IMO the ELR is great, people who own them love them, the problem was GM letting it be sold as a “Tesla killer” and not providing a strong enough vision of what they wanted it to be. Shutting down the volt production line and starving the market of volts just before Christmas to produce a grand new peoples car that was going to sell in the thousands and rival Tesla => costing $80k, with 2 doors, 2 + 2 seating and mediocre performance was always going to be “disappointing”. Providing a “limited”, “platinum” version of the volt for people who want to go electric but not compromise on the luxury would have been great. Especially if they had been smart with the marketing – like offering a free fuel card for long distance road trips in the days when the super-charge network was just getting started could have been a winner. What are the CO2 emissions per km in an ELR vs a EV charged on the 2013 grid? It’d be nice if the difference was similar to the extra mile you’d have to drive to link up with super chargers. The fast charge “port” on an ELR is over a MW probably more like 10 MW surely some marketing genius could have used that to sell a luxury car to people who are short on time?

    Anyway, I’d rather have a leaf, which I do. It’s performance in traffic (where it is driven) is about the same as any other car in traffic and the time it takes to charge at night in pretty irrelevant.

    I can’t help feel that the ELR is as successful as it could be and that all GM have done is a really good job of making them selves look stupid.

  19. Nix says:

    Front wheel drive Caddies haven’t exactly been enormous successes in the past either…

    Yet another factor involved.

  20. Pete Bauer says:

    What is the true cost of making Cadillac ELR. Did it really cost them $75,000.

    Still they can reduce the cost to $50,000 and it will sell.

    1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      Given the very low production (and hence high unit cost), and I think it was Cadillac’s first PHEV, it’s almost certain that the model cost Cadillac more than it made on sales. In fact, I think it’s said that most mass produced cars don’t make a profit in the first year of sales, due to startup and tooling costs. Those costs would have been significantly more for the ELR.

  21. Bill Howland says:

    Loboc is the only one I’ll agree with here. Excuse me, but the commenters fall into 2 categories here:
    1). A very few who are almost always totally clueless, and talk like spoiled 13 year olds when they are really 60.

    2). Most of the rest of you guys USUALLY know what you’re talking about, but you’re dead wrong on the analysis here.

    Who cares that GM’s ‘German import’ managers think the car was a mistake. Its good the car was out the door before they were ever hired. The head boss always hated evs anyway so what does he know? Too bad those clowns are discontinuing the ELR with the 2016 model year.

    1). The reliability is very high.

    2). Performance is not just 0-100 km – wish someone would tell the editors here that. The car has sufficient pep (more than the peppy volt) and handles flawlessly. It truly shines as a sport coupe, no doubt partially due to the more expensive suspension and expensive Bridgestones.

    3). As far as ‘dumping a GM product for a Tesla’, I like Loboc, did the opposite, except I really did it! The roadster was the most unreliable car I’ve ever driven, and things go wrong in the S that even did not go wrong in the Roadster. Service where I live was much poorer than mediocre.

    I could have instigated lemon-law procedings but I just LOVED the concept of an electric sports car, so I put up with all the agrevations until it became clear it was time to do an ‘Asset Recovery’.

    I test drove the “S” 3 times, and, I just don’t see the value in it. If the average price is around $110,000 that sets the bar VERY HIGH. Reliability is probably the biggest negative in my book.

    Now, Loboc states the ELR is the BEST car he’s ever owned. IF you ponder that statement, that is quite a RAVE!

    Just running the car for 2 model years (14, 16) isn’t enough to get people interested in it. It took a while before the Prius took off. As I’ve said before, everyone who comes in contact with the ELR, or rides with me in it surprisingly likes the car much more than even I do, but I get hung up on silly little things that always happen in all GM products which you just have to ignore. The basic car is luxurious, quiet, reliable, ‘a looker’ (to all ages btw) , and repeating what LOBOC stated, has understated elegance no other American Car has. None.

    1. Tim says:

      I both agree with Loboc and think the Model S is a terrific car. Just different. We’re not in a Zero Sum Game.

      I’d rather see Leafs, a Volts, ELRs, the Model S, a Fusion Energis etc than all the others. The streets would be quieter. Drivers would get more aware of energy usage in their driving patterns. And the stank of other cars would be reduced.

    2. SparkEV says:

      Bill, you may have had bad experience with Tesla, but not many have any exeperience with them, good or bad. When ELR was priced in Tesla range, especially when Tesla was making headlines, there’s no question they’d choose Tesla, especially since it’s much quicker in 0-60.

      If a shopper asks Caddy salesman “how does ELR compare to Tesla?” and all he can say is range anxiety or what not. When the shopper asks Tesla, hypothetical salesman can say “pure BEV, no range anxiety for 200+ miles, free supercharging, much quicker than ELR, and it’s a TESLA!”

      1. Bill Howland says:

        I paid $48000 for my new ELR. SO I could buy 2 ELR’s for under the avg cost of an “S”.

        Model “S”‘s aren’t substantially out of warranty yet, so we’ll have to see what happens when their owners have to start paying for repairs themselves. So people who love their “S” ‘s – we’ll see how much they ultimately love them – that is if there isn’t a drastic improvement in reliability, which is in itself troubling since Tesla seems to have the same problems over and over again – murmuring drives – which this kind of thing was successfully addressed in the Roadster, but not as of yet in the S, and things like repeated problems with the doors which, like the roadster, were never satisfactorily addressed.

        But the news reports are kinda beyond silly to the point of making me question whether people were ‘pumping and dumping’ Tesla’s stock price.

        CR reviewers gave almost assininely favorable reviews beyond the kid in the candy store stuff when it was known the car had reliability problems, even with their own. Then, after the stock price went up, they made the car ‘not-recommended’, – total “Plausible Deniability’ (for the SEC of course) – they can point to plenty of owner problems – so that no one will ever be accused of stock price manipulation. I hope those guys were personally successful.

        You seem as though you’ve never negotiated at a dealer. With the “S”, its take it or leave it pricing, whereas no one at a Caddy dealer pays the sticker price.

        My experience with the Roadster was definitely in the realm of AVERAGE. THe main difficulty was Tesla attempting to reneg on their warranty for it (I wouldn’t let them), and the fact that I didn’t have much choice in where I got the car repaired so I couldn’t preempt any stupid troubleshooting procedures which I would have if I was there personally as many Tesla owners have the luxury of being.

        Now back to these ‘managers’ trashing their own car – perhaps they should go back to working for BMW – who lately are having their own emissions scandal with the MINI.

        I criticize things like the gesture controls but I’d never criticize the basic car.. Again, the slight lack of straight line performance is a real triviality. For any sane driver who has to share the road with others its more than enough.

        Driving ‘green’ requires an easy pedal anyway.

        I’m no salesman, but even I can see the car has potential for many sales, as-is. How come these over-paid sales department heads can’t see the very obvious public reaction the car gets?

        I’m not remotely like any of the people in the Cadillac brouchures nor the TV ads. I’m not sure about Tim or Loboc but I bet they’re unlike them also. The basic problem with the car is these GM AD men who apparently don’t know how to sell cars.

  22. Marshall says:

    I have an ELR and love it. It’s my favorite vehicle I have ever had. The interior is impeccable, the sound system is great, and the exterior design is hard to beat regardless of the comparison cars’ price ranges.

    However, like others have said, it was overpriced. I waited until there were crazy incentives offered and I leased it for $555/month including taxes and owing nothing at signing. To me, that monthly price was worth it.

  23. ModernMarvelFan says:

    Duh!

    It doesn’t take a guy with a head to figure this out.

    The ELR was dead on arrival. It was too slow, too expensive, too small and too horrible for its class.

    GM thought that there are “rich idiots” who would pay a high sticker just for a plug. Well, they are wrong.

    People who buy the cutting edge cars with plugs are smarter than your average buyers.

    The current crop of ELR owners certainly didn’t pay that stupid MSRP for sure.

  24. Jimbo says:

    Just got a 2016 last week.

    As for Performance: 0-60 in 6.4 now! Plenty of power for a EV.

    As for cost: Stickers at $65-70K now, then $10K off that from GM, then Dealer Discount $4000 (shopped 4 dealers against each other) then $7500 Tax Credit…..not bad!

    Tesla 70D demo model with 2000 miles was about $80K take it or leave it. Sorry, don’t want to own a EV with proven reliability issues.

    BONUS: Wife loves it — Happy wife, happy life!

    1. Aaron says:

      And GM doesn’t have proven reliability issues? Are you kidding? Tesla’s customer service will bend over backwards to help you; GM’s customer service will just bend you over.

      1. Bill Howland says:

        Agree totally with Jimbo.. 0-60 in 6.4 isn’t fast enough for MMF? Maybe driving habits are different out west. Maniacs here are pulled over immediately by the cops.

        AAron its hard to believe but ELR and Volt (gen 1 at least) were made on the same assembly line and really got ‘kid gloves’ treatment.

        Other than my confusion about how the volt initially worked and what things to avoid, I’ve had 0 problems with my 5 year old VOLT, and also 0 problems with the ELR.

        As Danny DeVito (former Ev1 Leasee) said “You’re not going to take this one away from me, are you?” and, “Its the most SOLID Chevy I’ve ever driven.” The car really is that good.

        The cars (ELR and VOLT) are given more than the usual attention, both in design and execution of assembly. Its not like that Chevette Junk.

  25. Jimbo says:

    Gotcha on GM issues and I have been there over the years being screwed by them. But look at Tesla vs Caddy right now and Caddy is winning quality and dependability. Major driveline issues and quality bugs in Tesla. I work in automotive engineering and you can’t launch a car like Tesla without issues. I give them a kudos for doing better than expected for a new car company but not there yet.

  26. Brian F. says:

    GM design by committee approach fails again. Pontiac Aztek 2.0