BYD Says Plug-In Hybrid Qin Would Be A Game Changer In The U.S.

1 year ago by Mark Kane 71

BYD Qin

BYD Qin

BYD plug-in electric car sales in China – January 2016

BYD plug-in electric car sales in China – January 2016

In a recent interview discussing BYD’s plug-in passenger car future in the U.S., BYD America Vice President Michael Austin stated to Autoblog that the plug-in hybrid Qin would be game-changer:

“All I can say is that we’re absolutely committed to bringing our fantastic design to the US,” said Austin, noting that plug-in models such as BYD’s Qin can go from 0 to 60 miles per hour in about five seconds. “If I brought that model to the US, it’d be a game-changer.”

Five seconds acceleration sure is someting outstanding, but whether it would be a market success? The price would need to be attractive and BYD would need to establish dealer network.

As of today, Chinese company is focusing on the fleets in the US and it has all the retail sales it can handle at home for the moment.  BYD has actually already imported about 80 pure electric e6 (50 to New York for taxi purpose) because it’s easier to deal with fleets. The other (and currently main) part of BYD’s US business is assembly and sales of pure electric buses, with the third being energy storage systems.  So the company is winding its way into the US.

“Right now, we really don’t have parts and distribution or consumer warranty service, and we don’t have a dealer network. It’s easier to service fleets.”

Michael Austin said also that $7,500 federal tax credit is insufficient “if there isn’t support from the federal and local governments in the form of more charging infrastructure“.

In 2015 BYD Qin was a hit with nearly 32,000 sales in China. In the last couple of months sales decreased significantly – partially because plug-in hybrid Tang SUV.

source: Autoblog.com

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71 responses to "BYD Says Plug-In Hybrid Qin Would Be A Game Changer In The U.S."

  1. SparkEV says:

    0-60 under 6 sec is far quicker than Bolt. If they could make the range of about 150 miles (2 hours in freeway using DCFC to 80%) and comparably priced, it will definitely be a game changer.

    1. You must have got distracted by the note about the e6 EV, as the headline here was about the PHEV “BYD’s Qin can go from 0 to 60 miles per hour in about five seconds”, and I don’t expect over 100 miles EV range in such a model.

      1. SparkEV says:

        Not confused. If that’s BEV or even PH, that would be very compelling. It’d be like BMW i3 REx with longer range and quicker. Otherwise, it’s just ho-hum.

        1. glavewu says:

          The Qin PHEV’s 6s speed is based on both ICE and electric motor working together. The total torque is 479NM while Volt is 396NM. If Qin running in EV mode, it will lose half of its torque. When the battery is depleted, it will lose half of its torque. The engineering of Qin is far interior than Volt according to my understanding. I’d rather not have the 6s acceleration if it burns gas and consume electricity in the same time!

          1. SparkEV says:

            You only burn gas if you choose to have such acceleration. When running normally, it’d use far less power (~20kW, or 27 horsepower) even at freeway speeds, allowing all electric most of the time.

            1. glavewu says:

              Exactly, then you lose half of your max torque which mean Qin’s torque is worse than Volt in EV mode and when battery is depleted. So what is the point of having ICE and electric motor drive the car in the same time just to have the 0-60 looks better but the real performance is not always the same? I think it is mostly for marketing purpose. Also to have the ICE drive the car directly, you need to have complete trans, which is what Qin has 6at, which add weight and complexity. Volt optimizes the working condition so that twin motors and ICE works together more efficiently. That’s why Volt has higher MPG than Qin when burning gas. Volt also has longer EV range and price tag is similar if not more affordable. So how can Qin become a gamer changer with all these?

    2. theflew says:

      What is the fascination with 0-60 times? It’s a spec that most people don’t pay that much attention too given how many ~$30k cars have 0-60 times greater than 8’s. Why not use breaking distance as the measuring stick since in an emergency that matters more than anything else.

      I mean come on – reading this site you would assume the only thing Model S owners do is drag race their cars.

      1. SparkEV says:

        Popular perception of EV is that it’s over priced, under powered golf cart. While over priced is somewhat true (for now without subsidy), under powered doesn’t have to be. It’s called bragging rights. You don’t drag race all the time, but for marketing, 0-60 in 13 seconds and being labeled slowest car ever tested (eg. iMiev) won’t sell.

      2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        theflew asked:

        “What is the fascination with 0-60 times?”

        It’s a handy shorthand way of indicating how good, or how poor, a car’s performance is, and it’s something you can assign a simple figure to. If the 0-60 time is low, we can pretty much figure it has great handling, a smooth ride, etc. If the 0-60 time is lousy, chances are the other performance characteristics are not so good either. Plus, it’s hard to quantify how good or poor a car’s handling is, or how smooth the ride is.

        At least, that’s the way it is in cars aimed at the American market. Perhaps the 0-60 time isn’t that good an indicator of overall performance in Europe and other regions?

    3. ModernMarvelFan says:

      That 0-60mph time is with engine combined with electric motor unlike the Volt.

      1. SparkEV says:

        How quickly does Volt run when all out? I haven’t heard anything close to sub 6 seconds.

        1. glavewu says:

          Volt is 7-8s, but it is always 7-8s. Volt’s max torque is 397NM directly from electric motor. Qin has 5.9s only if there is enough electricity, then the max torque is 479NM combined. When in EV mode, or battery low, the torque reduced to half so 240NM which is a lot smaller than Volt. I think most of people when battery has power they will use EV mode instead of HEV sports mode, which burns both gas and electricity, so Volt is actually faster than Qin in most of the practical cases.

    4. glavewu says:

      Qin can not even beat Volt, how come a game changer? Volt has longer EV range, consistent performance, higher MPG when burning gas, more safety features. Qin is only better in 0-60 which requires both gas and electricity, you need to set SOC yourself to make sure the car is working in good condition. Their battery pack has balance issues due to the material they use though the material is more thermal stable. I think if Volt can sell in China with the same price tag here and eligible for gov incentive(which is not likely), Volt will sell more than Qin definitely

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        I’m pretty sure you’re right. The bit about BYD not having enough dealers almost certainly is not the actual reason why BYD sells so few cars in the USA; it appears to be merely an excuse.

        If BYD had compelling cars capable of competing well in the highly competitive North American new car market, you can be sure they’d add new dealerships rapidly, just as Toyota and Honda did in the 1970s and 1980s.

        The BYD spokesmen are trying to sell us something — literally. We all should apply some skepticism and critical thinking to their claims.

        1. C. Auto says:

          BYD is a battery company at its core. Profit margin is actually higher for them if they only sell the battery. However, they have made great strides in vehicle technologies in the last 5 years.

          http://insideevs.com/edf-launches-energy-storage-system-in-illinois-using-byd-batteries/

    5. glavewu says:

      BTW, Qin’s price tag in China is $34k before incentive, while Volt is $77K with no incentive at all, you know Volt is about $35k-$42k here in US right? That’s why Qin sells.

      1. Samwise says:

        You don’t buy a Volt and buy a Qin instead and get one for the wife as well for the same money, I’d call that pretty compelling.

        1. glavewu says:

          Exactly the way people think in China due to huge price difference. But if they sell Qin with the same price tag here in US, they don’t have price advantage and people will most likely buy Volt instead for longer EV range, higher MPG and more safety features.

        2. DonC says:

          The price difference is because of the tariffs applied to imported cars. It’s one of the reasons why the Model S doesn’t sell well in China and why GM is making the CT6 hybrid there.

  2. ffbj says:

    As indicated by the article this will happen anytime soon if ever.

  3. MikeG says:

    I doubt that a PHEV (from China no less) will ever be a game changer in the US.

  4. Ford Prefect says:

    Forget the Qin, bring over the Tang! I’m still confused why if SUVs are at an all time high in sales, then why are there so few SUVs with plugs on the market now instead in a year or two or three.

  5. mike says:

    Their updated e6 minivan goes 400 km on a single charge. Their technology seems pretty advanced.

    1. glavewu says:

      The 400km is not EPA rated, if you check their 300km E6’s EPA rating, you’ll see.

      1. Wheeler says:

        If the e6 is not rated by EPA as you say, then how can a fleet of 50 units be operational in New York?
        Apparently there are another 30, somewhere like Chicago, doing Uber things. These are surely not all running without EPA, and other, certifications.

        1. glavewu says:

          You can check http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ yourself.
          There is no 400km version E6 even listed.
          2015 E6 is rated 127miles(203km), which I assume is the 300km E6.

        2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

          Wheeler said:

          “These are surely not all running without EPA, and other, certifications.”

          I wouldn’t be at all sure there isn’t some way for a small number of imported cars to get around the EPA restrictions. For instance, they might be sold to fleets as “experimental vehicles” or some such. The standards are pretty lax for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to certify experimental vehicles; for example, no crash test is required.

          Regardless of what BYD claims, at best the cars sold in the USA are just test market vehicles.

          1. C. Auto says:

            Experimental vehicles are not allowed to be used as taxis. That is for sure.

  6. kdawg says:

    “Michael Austin said also that $7,500 federal tax credit is insufficient “if there isn’t support from the federal and local governments in the form of more charging infrastructure“.”
    ———–

    We should put the same rules to China as they do to us. Huge import tax and no EV credit if built in China. If you want to build in the US, you have to partner with a US company an share all technology information.

  7. Pedro says:

    After the success of the BYD Qin PHEV, BYD has start selling the BEV version this month.

    The range is similar to the 30 kWh Nissan Leaf.

    http://pushevs.com/2016/03/04/byd-qin-ev-is-about-to-arrive/

  8. Just_chris says:

    It’s all about price, if the Qin was in the USA and on sale for $25k it’s a game changer if it is $45k it is not going to sell even in double digits.

  9. wavelet says:

    An unknown (to the car-buying US public) Chinese brand isn’t going to sell anything on the basis of performance. Being unknown in the US, it’s also not going to sell cars on the basis of brand or reliability, not even to EV fans who have heard of BYD’s buses.

    The only thing they could sell on is a very low price for medium-level functionality, just like how Korean cars started being sold in the US, and earlier, Japanese.

    Car-wise, I suspect BYD is going to focus first on foremost on the huge home market, then on other East Asian markets, before trying any Western market.

  10. I remember when wise commentators laughed at the idea that a dinky car like Toyota could capture market share in the US. The new Qin and Tang are far more mature, and will have lots of reliability statistics when it hits the US. The $7500 tax credit would be enough for me, when I run my numbers, if the base price isn’t too much more than the earlier BYD or more than Volt. In a way, it’s an insurance policy, if you think there might just be some risk of conflict in the Middle East over the next 15 years… and you understand the recent drop in OECD oil production.

    1. Jychevyvolt says:

      I remember elon musk laughing at BYD.

    2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      Dr. Paul J. Werbos said:

      “I remember when wise commentators laughed at the idea that a dinky car like Toyota could capture market share in the US.”

      Sure, I’m old enough to remember when “Made in Japan” meant cheap and shoddy. But China has an entrenched cultural problem with quality control and a refusal to recognize the value of intellectual property… which means flagrant use of unlicensed patents.

      Certainly the time will come when the Chinese auto manufacturing market matures enough to produce consistent quality, and will treat patents with the respect they are given in Western countries. But how soon will this happen? I see no signs it will be soon.

      BYD is doing quite well at selling EV buses in first-world countries. Does that point to a possibility that BYD might be able to apply the same standards to making cars? On the other hand, BYD’s success at selling EV buses might have more to do with BYD having little or no competition in the field, rather than their product being actually superior. If so, that’s not gonna help them much in the highly competitive North American new car market.

  11. C. Auto says:

    The power train on the Qin is more flexible and advanced than the power train on the Volt. The Qin actually has a much higher efficiency rating (177 MPGe) than the Volt (98 MPGe). Check out the review on TopSpeed (http://www.topspeed.com/cars/byd/2015-byd-qin-ar165864.html#main) and judge for yourself.

    1. glavewu says:

      I don’t think so at all. The 177MPGe is Chinese government rating which considered EV mode 0 gas consumption, in other words, pure EV drive has infinite MPG because it doesn’t consume gas at all. EPA converts the energy from electricity to gas to calculate the MPGe, so the electricity consumption is included. You can check their formula if you want to do calculation. The topspeed has it listed as 1.6L/100km(177MPGe) and 1.6L/100km is exactly what Chinese government website rated Qin and even Chinese don’t believe that rating.
      2016 Volt is 106 MPGe for pure EV mode and gas only is 42(5.6L/100km) mpg which is better than Qin(6.8L/100km). Just don’t be fooled.

      1. C. Auto says:

        Can you please provide me a link to the formula you referenced. As an engineer I find it difficult to believe (without even having to look up any regulation) that anyone would define electric driving mode as “infinite MPG”. The MPG rating is an efficiency benchmark. There is no such thing as “infinite efficiency” in the electric driving mode. My friend in Shanghai actually owns a Qin, and he is actually getting slightly better than the 177 MPGe rating. So I know for a fact this is not bullshit.

        1. glavewu says:

          I’m not sure if you can read Chinese. Here is a link where people clearly explain it.
          http://auto.sohu.com/20150712/n416633315.shtml
          The formula does think MPG or L/100km is per gallon gasoline or Liter of gasoline consumed and EV mode use no gasoline so C_ev is 0L/100km. It assume 25km is the distance between 2 charge, which is pure bullshit. So the calculation becomes C_equ = (C_ev*D_ev+C_g*D_g)/(D_g+D_ev),where C_ev=0, D_ev is the pure EV distance, C_g is pure gas L/100k, D_g is 25km. We know Qin C_equ is 1.6L/100km and EV range is 70km, so we can reverse the formula to calculate C_g is 6.08L/100km, which is what most of owners report. I played with a Qin when was in China, its design and interior finish can not match new Volt. The acceleration in EV mode should be slower than Volt because of their design EV mode has only half of the max 479NM torque while Volt is always 396NM. And people complain about the rough driving experience when battery is depleted, of course I didn’t have a chance to feel that. I think your friend was telling the truth but not what you thought about. In my Volt there is also a MPG which only consider real gasoline consumption and that MPG is 653 according to MyVolt.com.
          Also I checked the old Volt’s L/100k data on the Chinese government website, it is listed as 1.3L/100km which is even smaller than Qin.

          1. C. Auto says:

            “It assume 25km is the distance between 2 charge.”

            Now that is an extremely conservative assumption. It will drastically lower the efficiency rating.

            1. glavewu says:

              No, that’s not true! It simply assumes every PHEV after their EV range, will only run on gas for 25km. It is pure bullshit. It can’t be even considered as conservative or radical. It is simply not true for everyone. They should give 2 numbers, one for electricity, one for gas, not consider EV range as 0L/100km and run on gas for only 25km and mix them to generate a meaningless number to mislead people

              1. C. Auto says:

                I thought you meant every 2 charges only get you 25km of driving.

        2. glavewu says:

          I think TopSpeed is very irresponsible to compare 2 cars using different rating system. Volt is rated by EPA which is the most strict test cycle and Qin’s data was coming from Chinese rating which not only using different way but also largely optimistic about EV range like the NEDC rating. TopSpeed just simply converted L/100km to MPG and mislead people to wrong conclusion. Qin’s design is far inferior than Volt, it is more like a gas car with a electric motor. And 2 separate systems can almost work independently. They did that because optimizing a system like Volt is too difficult and needs long time to develop and optimize. BYD want something fast to grab people’s eyes and change their low brand profile in people’s mind (they used to sell cheapest cars in China and no one considered BYD as a good car brand even today) by making high performance cars. Making electric motor and ICE drive the wheels all together is the fastest way to achieve their goal, they don’t really care about burning gas. Also BYD has government support and incentives plus heavy duty for imported cars, which gives them big price advantage over all other foreign EV manufactures (Volt is $77k in China, while Qin is just $34K before incentive), which means they have almost no competitors. Also if you live in big cities, to have a car plate registered may take several years as they want to limit new cars so do lottery, but for EVs, PHEVs, no limit at all. It is a big reason boosts PHEV sales and some people they don’t even have place to charge just burn gas.
          BYD Tang is their latest SUV although I don’t appreciate their focus on 0-60 performance over real efficiency, but right now I can’t find a PHEV SUV matches Tang’s EV range and performance. I hope they can go Volt’s way which cares about efficiency more than performance. If they can sell Tang in US with the same price tag which is about $40k, it may sell.

          1. C. Auto says:

            I am a mechanical engineer and I can tell you that the power train technology in the Qin is far more complicated to design and manufacture then the one in the Volt. The volt is a “pure” electric car with an onboard generator. There is no need for a complicated planetary gearing system in the Volt which helps to drive down design complexity, weight, and cost. The electric motor is always driving the car which is elegantly quite simple to design. So the Volt really only has 1 driving mode (electric). The Qin on the other hand has 3 driving modes (gas, electric, gas+electric). In order to allow the 3 different modes to work, the car needs a very complicated planetary gearing system. This adds cost in both design and manufacturing. If GM made a car like the Qin, it would end up to be much more expansive than the Volt. So it is wrong to label the Qin as technologically inferior to the Volt. The opposite is the truth.

            1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

              I’m sorry, C. Auto, but much of what you’ve asserted as fact here is flat wrong.

              The Volt is a fully capable switch-hitter; it can operate with almost identical performance in pure EV mode, or hybrid gasoline-electric mode. The acceleration is virtually the same in both cases, with differences being almost unnoticeable to the driver.

              The Qin simply cannot do that. It cannot achieve full acceleration without using the gas engine.

              Furthermore, contrary to what you’ve claimed, the Volt is fully capable of running as a pure EV or as a “combined hybrid”, mixing parallel and serial hybrid modes.

              The drivetrain in the Volt 2.0 has no less than five different operating modes. I don’t know whether the Volt or the Qin has a drivetrain which is mechanically more complex, but certainly the engineering in the Volt is much more sophisticated, and capable of greater variety in operation.

              http://gm-volt.com/2015/02/20/gen-2-volt-transmission-operating-modes-explained/

              1. C. Auto says:

                BYD didn’t become the world’s biggest EV manufacturer by making poor quality cars. In fact their Qin is ranked highly by JD Powers. So your ignorant opinion is pure BS.
                http://insideevs.com/byd-qin-ranks-at-top-of-j-d-powers-quality-study/

                1. glavewu says:

                  They sell big because of their price and policy advantage in China plus their car is good but not best!
                  Have you ever touched a Qin? Have you ever read any original real owner’s reviews?
                  I did try to test drive one and I sat inside a Qin once and played with interior for about a hour. I also own a Volt so I can compare. You don’t

                  1. C. Auto says:

                    Yes I have been inside my friend’s Qin when I visited him in Shanghai. It is a very nice car to drive. The fit and finish is obviously not as nice as a BMW, but who care at that price point. It is dam good enough. I like the Volt too (2nd generation model only). Remember Chevy has been making cars since Nov 3, 1911. BYD has only being making cars since 2003. The battery technology in the Qin has a significant safety advantage over the battery in the the Volt. There is 0% chance the LiFePO4 battery in the Qin will ever catch on fire during charging. You can never say that about the Volt. And there also no toxic material used in BYD’s LiFePO4 battery. These are tremendous advantages.

            2. glavewu says:

              Qin is actually parallel hibrid it only has one electric motor and one ICE, which means its design is the simplest. Qin doesn’t have planetary gearing system, because planetary gearing system requires at least 2 electric motors to work. Actually new Volt has twin electric motors working together not sure whether it is planetary or not.
              Not matter what, Volt has much longer EV range, more consistent performance(better EV and pure gas torque), higher MPG when burning gas, better interior finish, more safety features, better collision rating (Qin hasn’t been rated yet), easier user experience (no need to set SOC yourself like Qin, Volt’s algorithm is complete and automatic), better battery performance (Qin’s battery has unbalance issue due to their battery material and incapable of management system, they give up performance for better thermal stability), and the price is almost the same in US dollar.
              If you claim Qin is better, how come all the major points are inferior than Volt?

              1. C. Auto says:

                If you have two sources of shaft inputs, and only one output, then you will need a planetary gearing system to make it work. The original Chevy Volt was a “series hybrid” and didn’t combine the torques from the gas and electric motors. I think the second generation Volt is now more like the Qin (parallel hybrid).

                1. glavewu says:

                  From your input. It shows you have no idea about planetary gearing and what’s required to make it work. Suggest you learn about it before say anything about it.

                  1. C. Auto says:

                    I happen to design planetary gearing system for commercial aircraft. So I definitely know a thing or two about them.

        3. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

          C. Auto said:

          “My friend in Shanghai actually owns a Qin, and he is actually getting slightly better than the 177 MPGe rating. So I know for a fact this is not bullshit.”

          What is the average speed he’s driving it at? If he rarely or never takes it on the highway, then it’s easy to believe he gets such high efficiency.

          There’s also the matter of hypermiling. All too often, very high efficiency figures are due much more to extreme driving techniques that maximize range, rather than any indication of the performance of the automobile.

          Beware of apples-to-oranges comparisons. As they say: “Your mileage may vary”.

          1. C. Auto says:

            What truly matters for my friend in Shanghai is that in real world driving conditions, he is getting slightly better than BYD’s own rating. No point to argue against this fact. Normal city traffic is not a drag racing contest. Max operating specs are great to boast about, but what matters in the long term is what you are getting from your own needs. I reality, both the Qin and the Volt are very practical cars for everyday driving.

            1. glavewu says:

              It is not arguing the fact. It is arguing about how to calculate the MPG. I think Qin also calculates the MPG without counting electricity consumption, which make the number bigger.

              1. C. Auto says:

                In theory, the VOLT should be more efficient than the QIN because it is lighter and has a more aerodynamic shape. The body shape of the QIN is dated, but its power train technology is not. The LiFePo4 battery in the QIN is completely green and safe, but has lower energy density than the less green and safe battery in the VOLT. I think the energy density is about 20% less. BYD’s primary mission is to stay on the “green/safe” battery path. They are committed to using batteries that will pass the puncture, shock/impact, and fire tests. This is their biggest selling point.

                1. glavewu says:

                  You sounds more and more like brain washed BYD fans ignoring keys facts… Volt is 1.6t and Qin is 1.7t , Volt has 18.4kwh battery while Qin is only 13kwh. Why? Because Qin’s LiFePo4 has lower density and Qin has 6 DST trans just to make ICE can work independently and 0-60 looks better which is not necessary at all and against a lot of PHEV supporters’ principle “Never use a drop of gas when battery is full!”. LiFePo4 is more thermal stable but it is still Li-ion battery which means it is not true that BYD’s battery is completely safe and Volt’s and all the other EV batteries are very dangerous, which is a bullshit BYD wants everyone to believe. It is just different choices, someone wants more thermal stable battery while others want more efficiency and performance. If Volt’s and Tesla’s battery are very dangerous, how can they pass the strict safety inspection and sell in US? People all know tiny cars has higher death rates than big SUVs, why do they still buy it? It’s simply personal choice based on your need and budgets. As far as the “green battery” you claim BYD has, that’s pure bullshit I don’t even want to talk about.

                  1. C. Auto says:

                    Here is a very simple question for you. Can the battery in the Volt and Tesla pass BYD’s battery stress test (puncture, shock/impact, fire)? If BYD’s battery stress test ever becomes a government regulation, no Volt of Tesla can ever be sold in their current configurations.

                    1. glavewu says:

                      LiFePo4 battery is more thermal stable than other batteries, so it may be safer in some extreme conditions. If government use LiFePo4 battery’s limit as minimum safety requirement, then others may not be able to sell their batteries like you said. But the big if is just a if. Like there is no need to make big SUVs’ safety level as the minimum safety requirement, government won’t rule out all the tiny economical cars. Same thing.

                2. glavewu says:

                  Also BYD’s LiFePo4 battery is not only density and performance low, it is also hard to make every cell consistent, which is the reason why Qin and Tang’s battery pack need to do so called battery cell balance. Otherwise the EV range will be greatly reduced. Tons of posts reported and discussed how to charge battery to deal with this unbalance issue. How can you claim BYD’s battery is superior than others when it is actually choose something and give up something else? It is just different choices made by different manufactures.

                  1. C. Auto says:

                    BYD chose safety and non-toxicity over performance because their R&D shows the performance gap will certainly be narrowed in time. This is a good strategy.

  12. Johnny Logic says:

    @Mark,
    I love reading all the comments. A GREAT story gets people talking — so many comments!!
    I would love to hear more opinions from people *** who actually drove BYD QIN or TANG *** than $%&^@# hacks that clearly are sino-phobe-bigots or just anti-anything-not-invented-in-the-US. haha
    Get rid of your iPHONE @Pushmi and @Glavwu — Oh, and most of your BOLT and VOLTs are built where? NOT in the US, sorry to pop your fantasy bubble. Chinese Technology and Manufacturing is blowing away American efforts in EVs especially in QUALITY! (iPHONE Quality is Chinese Quality) 🙂

    1. glavewu says:

      @Johnny Logic
      Have you tried a Qin or Tang? Have you even tried a Volt?
      I went BYD dealer in China but unfortunately my Chinese DL left in US. I played with Tang and Qin for hours though.
      I also go to Chinese Autohome forum often and read a lot of real owners’ review about Tang and Qin. I think I know them better than you.
      Tang is good both in design and interior finish to me but it lacks safety features like the blind spot, lane keeping, auto brake, ACC, etc. But it has some features we don’t need in US like PM2.5 filter, mirror integrated recorder, etc.
      From EV performance perspective, Tang is the best PHEV SUV for now to my understanding, but I don’t like BYD’s focus on 0-60, they can make Tang more efficient which is main purpose to develop a PHEV.
      For Qin, both its design and interior finish can’t match Volt at all, and Volt’s EV range is still the longest in the world and also most efficient PHEV with 20mile+ range.
      Both Qin and Tang has battery unbalance issue due to the material BYD choose and lack of complicated management system. Tons of posts in their forum discussed how to charge a car to make the EV range significantly longer (30mi vs 50mi like difference) which is unbelievable to me for such a high volume production car. I’ve been driving Volt for almost 4 years and I’ve never felt I need to take special ways to charge it and it always have the similar performance.
      Also a lot of owners complaint about the big noise and rough driving when battery depletes. Owners need to set the value of SOC (start of charge) in Tang, and tons of posts talked about which is the best value of SOC in different driving condition. That’s more like an experiment. Can you imagine a production car need people to take care of its working states? I’ve prefer Volt’s way, GM makes it as efficient as possible, everything is changing automatically internally.
      BYD is a rising company in EV field and has good battery technology, they may be very successful in the future but they still need a long way to go to make a good car. As a Chinese I hope they can sell their cars in US and be successful, but as a customer I only want the best car based on my need and budget. I just tell the truth.
      @Johnny Logic, I want to listen to your opinion about all these!

      1. C. Auto says:

        Selling batteries as grid storage solution is far more profitable than selling EVs. BYD looks at EVs as a mean to increase business for their batteries.

        http://insideevs.com/edf-launches-energy-storage-system-in-illinois-using-byd-batteries/

    2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      “Johnny Logic” said:

      “Chinese Technology and Manufacturing is blowing away American efforts in EVs especially in QUALITY! (iPHONE Quality is Chinese Quality)”

      Must be some bizarre alternate universe where Chinese manufacturing doesn’t have a pervasive problem with poor quality control, and even outright counterfeiting of parts, especially in electronics.

      In our universe, iPhone parts are mostly made in other Asian countries, such as Taiwan and South Korea, and merely assembled in China.

      And seriously? You’re claiming Chinese-made EVs are superior in quality to American-made EVs? WOW, just wow.

      What happened to the CODA sedan, the one and only serious attempt to sell a Chinese made EV in the USA? Maybe in the alternate universe you live in, it was a success and drove Tesla out of business. In the universe the rest of use live in, the company went bankrupt, while American EV maker Tesla is growing its international sales by leaps and bounds every year.

      1. C. Auto says:

        You sound like a ignorant racist when labeling all Chinese technologies as crap. Why comparing BYD to CODA and insinuating BYD is like CODA? BYD electric buses are all over the world now, and they also started a manufacturing plant in Lancaster California. There is nothing but praise coming from all the users of their electric buses around the world. BYD is actually moving up the technology/quality ladder much faster than anyone anticipated. Don’t forget the fact that BYD is a 100% privately owned company. Private companies are far more efficient than state owned companies. Just look at the likes of Lenovo and Huawei. There are plenty of world class Chinese companies around in terms of quality and innovation. Why only focus on the losers when there are plenty of winners around. And BYD is certainly a major winner.

        1. glavewu says:

          BYD is not private company I can buy their stocks in China. BYD has no existing interest in traditional car industry as they don’t have a lot of investment, no famous brand and such things Toyota and GM have. So they mainly focus on EVs, that’s true. They are rising fast and I hope them succeed. But to claim Qin a game changer, I can’t agree. The claim sounds a lot like some BYD fans in China say. Very bold and radical, ignoring the fact that BYD’s car still need a lot of improvement to become real game changer.

          1. C. Auto says:

            Anyone can buy BYD stocks (BYDDY & BYDDF) on the Hong Kong stock exchange. Warren Buffet owns 10% of the BYD company through stock acquisition. The fundamental technologies in the Qin and all their latest PHEV vehicles are indeed “game changers” in terms of performance-value/cost. BYD doesn’t have to claim anything anymore. As long as they continue to meet (or beat) their own goals they will do fine. This in itself is a “game changer” because BYD is finally starting to carve out its own future instead of copying others. Another big plus for BYD is their completely green and safe battery technology. Qin owners never have to worry about the car battery catches on fire like the other PHEV owners. On a second note, I was wrong regarding the power train for the Volt. I looked it up. The Volt is actually not a pure series PHEV like GM advertised. It does actually have the planetary gearing system to enable a mild parallel hybrid mode at speed greater than 70 mph. This to me is actually a form of inefficient design because the Volt has the complexity and cost of the planetary gearing system in its power train without actually having the full benefit of the true parallel PHEV function. This is a big minus. GM should made the VOLT as either pure series PHEV or pure parallel PHEV. Maybe in the future GM will fix this design issue.

            1. glavewu says:

              Qin’s performance to value ratio is excellent in China so they sell big. But in US, their price advantage simply disappears immediately. Comparing to Volt, Qin only has 0-60 advantage which need to burn gas with battery electricity and I think a lot of EV lovers will pass it simply because of that.
              Except for 0-60 performance, Qin has almost no advantage over Volt. Volt has longer EV range, higher efficiency, better overall performance and more. How can Qin become a game changer?
              A PHEV is a bridge to pure EV, so the principle is to minimize gas usage and make EV range as long as possible and efficiency as high as possible which is exactly what Volt is doing. In contrast, Qin add more dead weights like 6DST transmission and low density battery and additional gears to utilize ICE power to improve 0-60 performance which is fundamentally against PHEV purpose a lot of people share in US.

              1. C. Auto says:

                I don’t think BYD will ever sell the Qin in the US market without giving that car a complete make over in looks. The technology under the skin is great, but the car’s looks doesn’t match its performance. Looks alone is 50% of the reason why an American buyer chooses one car over the other. I do agree that the 2nd generation Volt looks great.