Automakers Turn To Kreisel Brothers For Assistance On Competing With Tesla

11 months ago by Mark Kane 66

Kreisel Electric builds factory in Upper Austria

Kreisel Electric builds factory in Upper Austria

Kreisel Electric's powertrain

Kreisel Electric’s powertrain

Kreisel Electric has caught the EV development wind in its sails, at least according to a recent Automotive News article.

Companies like BMW and Volkswagen are apparently lining up to outsource some development work, use special solutions or purchase powertrains / high-energy battery packs from Kreisel Electric.

In recent months, the company has started building a battery pack factory in Austria, and has launched its energy storage product – Mavero.

One of the other projects currently underway is the electric powertrain and battery pack production for up to 2,000 electric Mercedes-Benz Sprinter minibus conversions for the VDL Group.

Of note, Kreisel Electric boasts of technology (battery cooling) that is better than Tesla...because comparing yourself to Tesla is apparently the way to do business in the EV segment:

“The company says it’s fielding 20 inquiries a day from automotive icons including BMW Group, McLaren Automotive and Volkswagen Group. The carmakers are asking the Kreisel brothers for help negotiating a U-turn away from fossil fuels to join the electric-vehicle revolution.

Kreisel Electric burst onto the Austrian and German automobile scene with a reworked Porsche Panamera that outperformed Tesla’s flagship Model S on some measures. The Austrian company says its patented laser-welding and thermal-cooling techniques give them an edge over Tesla because the method preserves the full power of the lithium-ion cells.

“The whole industry is searching, and we actually have the solution,” Markus Kreisel, 37, the middle sibling in charge of sales, said in an interview. “Companies come out and offer us projects. We have no real competitors in terms of the way we do business.””

One of Kreisel’s customers apparently has also contracted the company to assist in the production of a planned run of 100,000 electric vehicles over then next two years, unfortunately no names have yet been attached to the project.

source: Automotive News

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66 responses to "Automakers Turn To Kreisel Brothers For Assistance On Competing With Tesla"

  1. JMIJON says:

    Bla bla Bla …They Have absolutely nothing That TESLA Didn’t already have 6 yrs Ago Plus. ….It’s All Elephant Bull poop , HUNGAWA !

    1. peet365 says:

      how do you know? Tesla Model S cooling system is well known. What do you know about Kreisel´? Wil be interesting to see how does P100D system looks like.

      1. R.S says:

        Strange how a community, that was once so fotward thinking and progressive, has lost any believe in newcomers. In some cases rightfully, but its a bit shoking, after Teslas first ideas being mocked as vaporware for a long time, to see some Tesla fans do the same to others.

        1. Heisenberghtbacktotherootsandnuts says:

          +1

        2. ModernMarvelFan says:

          “after Teslas first ideas being mocked as vaporware for a long time, to see some Tesla fans do the same to others.”

          Correction: Tesla fan boi..

          Tesla fans are cool. Tesla fan boi are the cancer of EV community.

        3. jerry dycus says:

          Their statement if 20 icons a day inquiries kind of runs out in less than a week RS.
          And we’ve seen this rodeo many x before especially battery companies.
          Lets see if they can produce a production EV that can beat a Tesla in most every way includiing price.

      2. no comment says:

        i suspect that the tesla cooling system is also patented, so it’s not as though kreisel could come along and sell a tesla knock-off system.

    2. Matthaeus says:

      This is where Tesla has become religion: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to Kreisel Brothers and the like, nor serve them: for I Tesla thy God am a jealous God, and my prophet Elon is fierce, and we shall visit the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them…

      1. William says:

        St. Elon is only Fierce when the man behind the Red Curtain is exposed, for all in the Emerald Palace to see!!! The prophet (profit) of which you speak, is vulnerable in his ferocity, as he seeks those said, third and fourth generation children. Who said “Oz never gave nothing to the Tinman, that he didn’t already have”!

        1. ffbj says:

          America:
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjCGARrWUVg

          It’s the Emerald City btw.

          1. Kdawg says:

            In the year 4000…..

            1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

              Very nice job of Photoshopping on that, Kdawg. Did you do that yourself? If so, I’d say you’ve achieved professional quality.

        2. Get Real says:

          So one immature poster makes a stupid comment as a usual and then multiple other posters bemoan this as representative of the greater community?

          You may need to get out more!

          1. sven says:

            It’s good to see you still carpet bombing for Tesla and your messiah Elon. 😉

          2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

            Welcome to the Internet. 🙂

      2. Yogurt says:

        If Teala patentied their cooling system Kreisel could use it since Tesla opened all of their patents…
        But they claim their system is better so it is probably different and would fall outside of Teslas patients…

        1. no comment says:

          i very much doubt that use of tesla patents works in the way that you have described. your description would suggest that tesla has repudiated their patents altogether and nowhere did tesla say anything close to that.

        2. Rob Stark says:

          You don’t know what you are talking about.

          You can use Tesla’s patents “in good faith.”

          Elon specifically stated anyone that uses Tesla’s patents must reciprocate. In other words in order for Kreisel to use Tesla’s patents Kreisel must allow Tesla to use theirs. Elon stated “it is only fair.”

          1. no comment says:

            you can’t go by what musk said publicly. tesla has attorneys who would have drafted the actual language regarding the use of tesla patents. in that event, you would have to see the fine print. an open-ended statement that suggests that if you use even one of tesla’s patents that tesla would then have the right to use any of your patents would make no sense. aside from that, the statement: “in good faith”; has no specific meaning.

      3. Anon says:

        Oh please. Only Religion, is Religion. Stop with the failed false equivalency and ridiculous metaphors.

        The facts are, no one else offers BEVs that are:

        1: as Sexy and Progressively Designed to inspire other automakers, to copy them
        2: offering powerful, single or dual motor AWD options
        3: offering Multiple Battery Sizes and sell the largest kWh packs in the automotive industry (ie, greatest EV range)
        3: offering SusperCar Performance at lower costs than ICE counterparts
        4: including evolving AutoPilot Features
        5: offering the Highest Speed DCFC network on the planet
        6: offering a unique low pressure, non dealer sales experience
        7: Over the Air updates, that GM/LG has now finally taken to heart with their Bolt EV.
        8: Etc., etc., etc.

        With hard facts like these, there is really no reason to not admire the work that the fine folks at Tesla are doing, in the name of “Saving Humanity” from itself. No one currently in the automotive industry has yet been able to match them with physical product.

        Maybe the word, “Fandom”, is more accurate?

        1. Alan Drake says:

          BMW makes better engineered EVs. Also the most economical – see carbon fiber bodies for light weight.

          Personally, I am waiting for prices to fall a bit more before buying a BMW i3 REx (I need the unlimited range for the once every six year hurricane evacuation from New Orleans – 200 miles is not good enough).

          1. Rob Stark says:

            BMW makes inferior BEVs.

            More money and less range.

            Engineering complexity is not superior.

            Simple and effective is superior.

            And they don’t make carbon fiber anything. They make carbon fiber reinforced plastic parts.

            1. mhpr262 says:

              The carbon fiber they make is the real deal – strands woven into mats, layered, impregnated with resin and tempered in an autoclave. Plenty of video sof that on youtube.

              1. John says:

                However BMW has said they might drop carbon fiber due to costs. It was on one of these EV blogs some time ago.

                1. Alex Maskvietis says:

                  Come on, guys, just sit in and test the BMW i3. It looks cheap, rides cheap and those only 4 seats and rear suicide doors are just terrible. All that must cost only half of the money.

          2. bogdan says:

            BMW makes better engineered ICEs.
            They have no idea how to build a competitive EVs. They build China like EVs with BMW badge.
            I3 and I8 is a hard lesson they had to learn.
            Carbon fiber doesen’t make sense. So they make a hard turn on that. I8 is not an EV even if they claim top be so. It’s just a modern ICE with a plug. I3 Rex is the biggest junk they ever produced making fools out themselves because the ICE generator is too small and runs like limp mode.

            For the ones who don’t agree with that I suggest just compare the sales numbers between Tesla and BMWs so called EVs

    3. taser54 says:

      Juvenile

      1. sven says:

        Perhaps, JMIJON is shorting Kreisel Brothers stock. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

        1. JMIJON says:

          L M A O ….I really got you all going …didn’T I ? & It didn’t take Much…Ha ha Ha …Jimijon what too ya so long !

      2. no comment says:

        if you’re just discovering that tesla fanboys make juvenile statements, you must be new around here. 🙂

    4. Sean Wagner says:

      Describe the main difference between Tesla’s and Kreisel’s cooling method.

      1. JMIJON says:

        I can Describe it ….Bla Bla Bla Bla.. It’s probably a copy of Tesla’s …Since Tesla Opened their Patents for all to use for FREE*.

        1. Sean Wagner says:

          “Probably”?

          No, it’s not a copy of Tesla’s at all.

  2. Clive says:

    Interweb Buzz.

    We’ll see !

  3. William says:

    Tesla better find out what is in Kreisel Thermal Battery Cooling System! Tesla needs to stay on top as the leader of the Premium EV segment. These Ausrians might be able to close the gap on Tesla in the next 5 years.

    1. Joshua Burstyn says:

      The more competition the better.

      1. Heisenberghtbacktotherootsandnuts says:

        +1

      2. jelloslug says:

        +2

            1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

              +5

                1. Nix says:

                  +15 more….

                  Actually, this is exactly what Elon Musk would say too. He has been very open about how Tesla cannot single-handedly bring on an EV revolution. He has always said that one of the main goals for Tesla has been to push other car makers into building better EV’s.

                  Musk himself would welcome any company that legitimately moves forward the EV industry.

                  1. Bill says:

                    So the race is on! I’ve made my reservation on a Model 3. Maybe I should hedge my bet. Where do I sigh up to reserve one or more of the alternatives? (Not counting Bolt because GM crushed the EV1’s) Can’t place reservations yet? Darn!

  4. Cavaron says:

    The Kreisels are great in engineering – no question. Maybe there system is as good as Teslas or maybe even better. But the real deal are the batteries in numbers. Kreisels don’t produce batteries, they just pack them together very well. It’s like building 1,000 great Tiger tanks when there are about 100,000 Shermans at the shore…

  5. jelloslug says:

    This is exactly what Musk’s endgame is. One way or the other to force the hand of the other manufacturers.

    1. Clive says:

      Correct!

  6. Michael Will says:

    I found Kreisel interesting also when I saw articles about how they had succeeded in modifying a VW eGolf to have superior range in the 180 miles (probably european measure which means less than 150 real miles) and apparantly BMW gave them money to stop advertising the eGolf with that and now they have the BMW i3 listed instead with 300 km range = 186 miles range…

    …so they may really have something, can’t wait to see them add value to production vehicles.

  7. Vexar says:

    At least we know who is making these one-off prototypes for the various German companies now. I hope they form their own brand and leave the ICE companies in the sand. I do remain suspicious about their battery claims, if only because battery claims are always taken with a grain of lithium salt.

    1. Yogurt says:

      There is nothing to be suspicous about as they dont have some super new battery chemistry…
      They simply buy Sanyo/Panasonic 18650 cells and turn them into a battery pack which is also the Teala way…

      1. bogdan says:

        That’s right , they just claim having welding and cooling tech. They don’t have a better battery. That’s why JMIJON is absolutely right when he says:

        Bla bla Bla…

      2. Peter says:

        How do you know it’s Sanyo/Panasonic cells and not some other brand like Samsung, LG etc.?
        I couldn’t find any info on there website stating what cell brand(s) they use.

        1. Yogurt says:

          That was from memory but my memory was wrong…
          The article below says Sanyo/Panasonic, LG Chem and Samsung SDI all make 18650s with the required denisty for Kreisels packs…

          http://pushevs.com/2016/05/11/kreisel-electric-is-building-a-battery-factory-in-austria/

      3. jerry dycus says:

        Panasonic can’t sell Tesla cells as Tesla owns the patents, etc. All Panasonic does is produce Tesla cells for Tesla.
        They can sell their own cells but not Tesla ones. And Tesla no longer uses that size having upgraded with larger cells to make the p100d possible.

  8. tosho says:

    Looks like the germans are seriously panicking because of Tesla. Good!

  9. Matt says:

    “20 inquiries a day from automotive icons”
    Incredible, I thought they would run out of automotive icons after just one day but there seems to be thousands.
    Maybe they meant 20 inquiries from emoticons?

  10. Nix says:

    If they end up having a superior battery, good for them. Hopefully they will find a market and improve EV competitiveness against ICE vehicles. The real challenge will be to make them cheap enough to be competitive with commodity cells.

    Elon Musk has been very up-front that the choice has been to leverage the price benefits and reliability that commodity chemistry brings to the table, over using the most cutting edge battery technology being developed. And if battery makers believe they have a superior battery, he’s always said to battery makers to bring him a working production version of the battery, and he’ll have his engineers test and evaluate it.

    When it comes to cooling, from what I understand the latest Tesla battery pack re-design is supposed to address that. And while a better cooling system certainly must exist, if the new pack does the job there is no reason to build something capable of removing even more heat.

    “More” cooling for the sake of “more” doesn’t actually improve an EV. If a cooling system can remove 200 kJ/min, and there is only 100 kJ/min worth of heat being produced, there is no point in having an oversized cooling system.

    People get a bit stuck in race car mode when they think about many of these things. If your daily driver doesn’t need more cooling, there is no point in adding a system that is capable of removing more heat that what is generated.

    So depending on what type of cooling performance gains the new Tesla pack design has over the old pack, a better cooling system may be as pointless as putting an 850 CFM carb on a 300 cubic inch street engine.

  11. Phr≡d says:

    phargn HYSterical to see Malfoy & co making fun of their littlest brother.. sigh.

    Thanks Kdawg for the post that the survivors of the FUDiot-slaut absolutely know was one of your, what? a couple hunnert, by now?

    Thanks for sticking around!

  12. bogdan says:

    If they go to bed with VW they will soon be out of business. Good luck and god help you!

  13. Peter says:

    Orange seems to be the new black when it comes to EV battery power cables.

    1. jerry dycus says:

      Peter, the color is required by law for high voltage EV cables.

  14. bogdan says:

    Orange says ‘Danger: high voltage cable’.
    Black says ‘Don’t worry: low voltage cable’.

  15. Bone says:

    +1

    The better cooling system would be a system that does the job, adds less weight and cost to the battery pack and uses less energy.

    1. Bone says:

      That was supposed to be reply to Nix.