Audi’s 2017 Tesla Model S Rival To Boast 280 Miles Of Range, Seating For Entire Family

2 years ago by Eric Loveday 57

Is Another Audi E-Tron In The Works?

Is Another Audi E-Tron In The Works?

2012 Image Of Audi A6 e-tron

2012 Image Of Audi A6 e-tron

Quite some time ago, Audi’s technical development boss, Ulrich Hackenberg, told Auto Express that an all-new, all-electric family car with seating for the entire family and a 280-mile (450km) range is currently under development.

At first, we suspected that this would be the Audi Q6 e-tron SUV, but upon further investigation, we’re led to believe that indeed a BEV sedan is under development at Audi too (it’s likely that this long-range electric family car from Audi is the mystery BEV discussed briefly here).

Quoting Hackenberg (via Auto Express last year):

“Such a car is under development. I was able to reengineer the R8 e-tron project and technology with the team and we are on the way to a range of 450km (280 miles). Let’s say that technology will also be carried over and is a trailer for another car with long range. It is under development and will be in the market for around 2017 but it will not be a sports car.”

So, not a sports car, but probably not at SUV either. How ’bout a sedan then? It seems Hackenberg hinted at precisely that when speaking with Auto Express. This is how Auto Express explains Hackenberg’s admission:

“Hackenberg remained coy on further details of the all-electric family car but it is expected to adopt a saloon style body to allow for better packaging. The larger surface area of a saloon would allow for the bigger and more powerful batteries to be stowed beneath the floor of the car so to not encroach on boot or passenger space.”

It seems as though Audi is one of only a couple of automakers interested in developing long-range BEVs to compete with Tesla.

Editor’s note:  Assuming 280 miles is based on NEDC projections (and why would it not be?), converting that back to real-world/EPA numbers would be about 385 km/240 miles.

 

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57 responses to "Audi’s 2017 Tesla Model S Rival To Boast 280 Miles Of Range, Seating For Entire Family"

  1. stimpacker says:

    Nice, can I take my family to Disneyland in it? Or is it a Tesla killer that has nowhere to supercharge?

    1. James says:

      Bingo.

      That said I can see a world where Tesla shares the superchargers with Audi. I don’t think Tesla will feel it is right to withold access for comercial gain (obviously Audi would have to pay something reasonable).

      1. RexxSee says:

        Exactly what Tesla offered many times.

        1. mo says:

          Audi, stop talking and build the EV already. Start building the factory, start hiring the workers, start buying the necessary robotic equipment.

      2. taser54 says:

        It’s more likely that the German manufacturers will band together to create a charging network-as they’ve joined to create navigation software consortium purchasing division from Nokia.

        1. jelloslug says:

          I hope it is created faster than the CCS network that BMW, VW and Chargepoint are supposed to be making.

          1. ffbj says:

            Right, and with all the complaints about Tesla being too slow, no one complains about the pace of the SC network role out, or its level of saturation. Though, some complain
            about the later.
            Tesla has managed to achieve a peerless feat with the construction of its SC network.

            1. pjwood1 says:

              …for a book cost of 150 million, vs. VW / Audi’s hunt to borrow 21 billion, for diesel-gate.

              Unless the back seat is a battery, no way this A6 unibody has this range. C’mon. Wh/kg havent risen enough to cram in 60-70kwh.

              Beats drum: No Q7 PHEV, and we are supposed to think this A6 will happen??

        2. JakeY says:

          VW already recently said that they are not interested in building and maintaining a charging network (nor a hydrogen fueling network) and will leave that to third parties. So that is at least one player that won’t be developing such a network.

      3. jerryd says:

        Since the Tesla 3 will be out before it with more range at a far lower cost,
        isn’t it DOA?
        Same for many EV’s coming out will have to drastically cut prices to compete.
        Let’s remember 280 mile rated range there is more like 200 miles rating and more realistic here.
        If the 3 does come out with low aero drag and less frontal area which is likely they could get 200 mile range in just 40kwhr and 300 mile range in 60kwhr.
        This cuts costs and means SC is much faster like 15-20 minutes.

    2. ggpa says:

      +1

      The $150M that Tesla has invested in Superchargers add a lot of value to their cars

    3. Have fun in the waiting line of the very rare Superchargers.

      CSS/CHAdeMO chargers are getting installed at 5 times faster rate, than Superchargers in Europe.

      1. Illuminati says:

        And they recharge your car five times more slowly…

        1. mr. M says:

          Not in norway, 120 kW CCS/Chademo installed a few days before 😉

      2. Speculawyer says:

        Waiting in line at a supercharger? Oh look, Counter-Strike Cat predicts that Tesla is going to sell a huge amount of Model S and Model X cars. Perhaps he is changing his tune. 😉

      3. michfin says:

        Tesla’s can use the CHAdeMO chargers with their adapter so the more CHAdeMO fast chargers the better for Tesla owners too.

        In the end it will really only come down to who has the battery capacity and battery cost. The rest of the car can be done by any car maker.

        1. mr. M says:

          I read that Tesla->chademo is only 50kW. I hope they improve it.

  2. jelloslug says:

    Considering how Tesla is eating the large luxury sedan market alive it’s only logical for them to consider making a car like that.

    1. Only in your Tesla fanboy fantasy world.
      In the real world, BMW has increased sales in the first half of the year by 6% and Mercedes by 10%.

      1. Illuminati says:

        In the U.S., Q2 Model S orders grew almost 30% year-over-year.

        In Europe, Q2 Model S orders grew more than 50% year-over-year, despite two price increases in the past six months.

        1. Get Real says:

          As you can see Illuminati, Counter Strike Cat doesn’t do facts or statistics very well since they interfere with his serial anti-Tesla FUD.

          The fact of the matter is that Tesla’s roaring success at selling a compelling EV is what is pushing the laggards into competing in both EVs and hopefully in charging networks.

          In any case Elon’s plan is working and the serial Tesla/Musk haters are not happy and that’s a good thing for the planet and all of its now and future inhabitants!

      2. Speculawyer says:

        But Counter-Strike Cat, you are the one that just said Tesla is going to sell so many cars that there will be lines at their superchargers! Make up your mind!

        1. V. Bowman says:

          😉

  3. ggpa says:

    I think your conversion is too generous. 280 mile NEDC is around 200 miles EPA, not 240.

    I say that because 30kWh Leaf is rated 155 miles NEDC, 107 EPA

    1. Jay Cole says:

      Without getting into it too much, it is to do with the splits.

      In Europe/NEDC there is a “Urban/Extra Urban” portion (and a few other treasures) that skews results big time, especially on smaller range cars – making the numbers even more wildly optimistic.

      As an example, these ‘city’ tests involve extreme slow acceleration, speeds well under 50 km/h, and even a portion of the test (intended for ICE vehicles) where the car is testing for efficiency while stopped (so obv pretty ridiculous for an EV).

      …so not only is NEDC a terrible metric for judging real world range right across the board, it can also vary from EV to EV pretty significantly, so you can’t assign a percentage metric from one example that you have both NEDC and EPA and then apply it universally to another.

      So while yes, the LEAF is rated at 155 miles vs 107 (NEDC vs EPA) a difference of almost 48 miles, something like the Model S85 is rated 310 miles (500km) on NEDC vs 265 (425 km) EPA, a difference of only 45 miles…amusingly less than the spread on the new 2016 LEAF.

      /fun times

      Sidenote: there is a movement afoot to change EV ratings in Europe, we just have to wait it out

      1. Josh says:

        Great details Jay.

        Where do I sign up to vote for a change in the EU metric?

        1. Jay Cole says:

          As always there is lots of plans in progress, the most appealing of course is an overall universal, multi-country/continent standard…that of course makes too much sense to ever have implemented.

          1. mr. M says:

            The WLT shall be applied starting 2017 was the last i read 😉

      2. ggpa says:

        Jay, thanks for the information, and teaching me something new!

        1. Jay Cole says:

          No problem, accumulating piles of useless information is kind of my thing, (=

  4. Tom says:

    I’ll wager some $$ that Audi will manage to install a hidden “defeat device” in their product… Probably to get by the need for a supercharger network…haha…

    1. John Hansen says:

      It will have a secret steam-powered range extender that runs on whale blubber. It will only turn on when the EPA is testing its range. The whale blubber will be sourced from baby whales that are bludgeoned to death by men in dark suits riding dirt bikes. German engineering!

      1. Assaf says:

        Gah, I see I’m late for the joke-fest.

        FWIW, how could you miss that the defeat device is designed for the EPA range test?

        It’ll be 280 miles during the test, and 83 miles afterwards in ordinary driving 🙂

  5. Robb Stark says:

    As soon as Tesla chooses to EPA certify the Model S 90D it will bet 286 miles.

    The 85D gets 270 EPA miles.

    1. Ian says:

      If battery capacity will double by 2020 it will be a P180D with 500 mile range.

      1. Josh says:

        Capacity would have to double, and price per kWh would have to be cut in half.

        1. Anthony says:

          Volumetric energy density would need to double – from 700Wh/l to 1400Wh/l. I don’t think that’ll happen by 2020. Solid-state batteries may get us part of the way there (up above 1200) but probably not to 1400.

      2. John in AA says:

        If we had ham, we could have ham and eggs, if we had eggs.

        1. mr. M says:

          Lol, me too please 🙂

  6. taser54 says:

    Good news for BEV fans.

    1. jelloslug says:

      More is always better.

  7. Bill Howland says:

    Supposedly, according to AutomotiveNews, the next generation Leaf will have 300 miles of range, and supposedly they have prototypes doing this now, so they say.

    1. Tom says:

      A 300 mile LEAF? Hah! Figure in a 7% battery yearly battery degradation… Just saying…

      1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        All other things being equal, the bigger the battery, the slower the degradation over time. Even for a Leaf.

    2. Josh says:

      The concept released recently was 60 kWh, that sounds like a legitimate EPA 200 mile EV to me.

      1. mr. M says:

        214 miles EPA = 300 miles J08. 😉

    3. Speculawyer says:

      I am quite skeptical. That is a HUGE jump from 83 miles to 300.

      But I’d LOVE to be proven wrong.

  8. Loboc says:

    Cadillac better hurry. They’re going to miss the BEV boat.

    1. Mark C says:

      How about a Buick? They have the perfect name already, an Electra 225 {mile rated range}, and perhaps an Electra xxx to denote the greater range.

      1. Josh says:

        I think you forgot all GM EVs must end in “olt”, so I would guess something more like Jolt or Colt.

        1. Bitwise says:

          I’m looking forward to the 2020 Chevy Dolt entering the market!

      2. Goodbyegascar says:

        I would love to see a Buick EREV. With at least 50 miles of all-electric range, of course.

    2. Speculawyer says:

      Meh. The Cadillac brand isn’t just good for EVs. They need a new brand if they want to enter that market. Or perhaps they could make Buick look better. Cadillac is just too much the brand of blue hairs and pimps.

      Cadillacs are more associated with fins and hoods that you land aircraft on than batteries.

  9. Anthony says:

    I just don’t see a market for EVs longer than 350 miles, especially if they can be charged at 150kW up to about 50%, and then 120kW from 50-80%.

    350 miles is about 125kWh at 75MPH. 150kW to 50% is 62kWh (175 miles) in 25 minutes. The next 30% is 38kWh (105 miles) in 20 minutes. So 80% in 45 minutes (about the same as a Tesla), but that 80% is 280 highway miles, or four hours worth of driving. If charging stations are 125 miles apart (like Tesla’s network) then that’s overkill, even if you skip every other station (250 miles apart).

    1. Samuel H. says:

      There’s no such thing as overkill when you’re dealing with range. You need to have that kind of range if you’re in the winter driving through slush, full of people and stuff with the heat blasting and all five seat heaters going.

      Many people won’t even look at an EV unless it can reliably travel over 200-miles in the worst possible conditions. Anything above that in normal conditions is simply range assurance. Larger batteries can be charged faster than smaller ones. They also last longer, and range loss due to various factors matters less the longer the range is.

    2. wavelet says:

      There’ll be people for whom a 500mi range matters over 350mi, just like there is with ICE cars.
      1) Those between-chargers distances are for the major highways only. What do you do if the trip has major non-highway stretches? Some people don’t like going outside their planned path (plenty of people won’t go 1mi out of their way for a gas station!).

      2) Due to the inefficiency of ICEs, adding passengers/luggage and/or AC/heating doesn’t affect their range that much. Not so for BEVs. That 350mi range is really more like 250mi with the extra loads.

  10. MDEV says:

    By 2018 Tesla will have model S second generation. Audi may have a good range but could be a software gimmick let’s see.