ABB Joins CharIN: 150 kW Charging Coming Soon, 350 kW Targeted For Future

2 years ago by Mark Kane 47

The Combined Charging System

The Combined Charging System

ABB fast charger

ABB fast charger

ABB has joined as a member in the CharIN e.V. initiative to take electric vehicle charging to higher power levels.

“CharIN e. V. is happy to announce that ABB B.V. has been granted core membership in the association on 12th of November 2015. ABB B.V., which is based in the Netherlands, has joined CharIN e. V. as the first non-German member

ABB is leading with Internet-based charging infrastructure, supporting all EV charging standards. ABB offers a total solution: specific charging solutions for any location type and connected services to enhance your business. The chargers easily connect to any service or payment application.

ABB’s Internet connected chargers enable fast global service and pro-active maintenance. ABB has years of experience in creating, installing and maintaining charging infrastructure, including several nationwide charger networks.”

2015 Chevrolet Spark EV Coming To Maryland This Spring!

Chevrolet Spark EV at DC fast charger

CharIN is built around the Combined Charging System (different versions in Europe than North America).

German carmakers (Audi, BMW, Daimler, Opel, Porsche and Volkswagen) together with American (GM, Ford and Chrysler/Fiat) first developed and created the CCS for DC fast charging, keeping backward compatibility with AC charging. Because AC plugs were different on both markets, the CCS versions with DC capability are different too.

CharIN alliance is working on increasing DC fast charging power from the common 50 kW to about 150 kW.

As of today, there are over 1,600 Combo (1 and 2) fast chargers installed, according to CharIN (for the sake of comparison, CHAdeMO stands at over 9,240, with nearly 5,500 in Japan).

But according to the papers, CharIN’s long-term goal is to be able charge at 350 kW. If 150 kW charging is a few years away, 350 kW probably will not be available anytime soon, neither will EVs that can accept that level of power, but at least it’s in the works.

The Combined Charging System - up to 350 kW

The Combined Charging System – up to 350 kW

The Combined Charging System - CharIN working structure

The Combined Charging System – CharIN working structure

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47 responses to "ABB Joins CharIN: 150 kW Charging Coming Soon, 350 kW Targeted For Future"

  1. Tom says:

    So, ABB thinks there is a viable business model?

    1. Mike I says:

      Sure, there is a good business model for them to sell chargers to others who have to figure out how make it a viable ongoing business to operate the chargers.

      1. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

        There will be a need for chargers.
        There’s a viable business model: make the users pay for them with appropriate pricing.
        It’s L2 charging that has the business model problem.

        1. Speculawyer says:

          Yeah, I’d pay good money for high-speed charging on my rare long-trips if I had a car with a big battery and a good DC-fast-charge system.

          350KW? That could kill off gasoline if combined with cheap batteries.

      2. wavelet says:

        ABB is a large, serious company, who only goes after large-scale projects. They’re unlikely to spend their time unless they’re pretty sure it’ll be big business.

        The standards dust has to settle first.

        The business models for fast charging, of all varieties, aren’t rocket science.
        Eventually, the driver will be paying for it, most likely directly, just like with gasoline (although in some places car leases include gas).
        Due to electricity demand/supply/storage curves, once EVs are common, price might also be differentiated by peak/of–peak rates.
        In the shorter term, there might be some subsidies by manufacturer and/or government to speed adoption, but that’s clearly not a long-term business model.
        As for the payment issue, that’s obv

  2. vdiv says:

    Just so we are accurate, Audi, Volkswagen, and Porsche are not three separate automakers, they are brands of a single automaker, VAG. Also Chrysler/Fiat is now an Italian automaker (FCA) incorporated in the Netherlands and headquartered in London, UK, not quite an American one 🙂

    1. Anon says:

      Correct.

      1. Not entirely correct... ;-) says:

        VAG is not the correct name, either it’s Volkswagen Group, or Volkswagen Aktiengesellschaft (literally the people’s vehicle stock corporation), which might be abbreviated VW AG, but not VAG. 😉

  3. Djoni says:

    Besides having different plug, that’s a nonsense, since three phases are very common in commercial application where those DCFC would be installed anyways.
    It’s a good thing that we are envisioning 150kW in a couple years and a 300 kW in a future we might see sooner than most would believe it.

  4. Why continue to beat a dead horse?

    Just except, that CHAdeMO has won with a large lead in sales of compatible cars.

    1. vdiv says:

      Or just accept that a Mennekes type 2 plug can be used for 135 kW DC charging as shown by Tesla so the Frankenplug with separate DC pins is really useless.

      1. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

        No. Frankenplug’s design is about having a charging single port.

        1. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

          Order word wrong. :p

          It’s about having a single charging port without throwing away the existing J1772.

      2. Speculawyer says:

        Well Type-2 does not exist in the USA.

    2. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

      CHAdeMO has a lead. But that would be because the CCS manufacturers weren’t selling BEVs and some Japanese manufacturers were.

      Combo chargers are no big deal. Supporting another standard is just a cable and a protocol away.

      1. Speculawyer says:

        I think that outside of Japan, Chademo is walking dead. Yeah there are a lot of them out there but many are broken, Nissan is really the only company supporting it, it is big & clunky, etc.

        It seems like the only real hard standard we have in the USA is J-17772 since it handles typical 240 VAC in most homes and that isn’t going to change.

        But the DC charging standard is still a contest. Chademo had lots out there, Tesla has the best performance and best logically deployed network. SAE-CSS has lots of company supposedly backing it but none of them are really backing it right now except BMW & VW.

    3. kdawg says:

      Chademo sux. I don’t want 2 ports or that giant freaking plug.

      Outside the closed world of Japan, there isn’t much of a lead, in a brand new market BTW. We are still in the infancy stage, so why kill the better product because you think there are a couple more Chademo plugs?

      1. Anon says:

        You’ll generally have TWO FLAPS on one big CCS port. Individual Upper, depending on if you’re looking to use L2, or both flipped open for L3.

        You could have ONE FLAP, but then it would also expose the two lower DCFC terminals to environmental moisture / corrosion when you weren’t using them during L2 transfer. That wouldn’t be prudent for the longevity or reliability of the vehicle’s port.

        So, the number of ports is not much of a deciding factor against one or the other formfactor… FrankenPlug is technically two different plugs merged together. Kinda clunky. But it’s what we got.

        1. kdawg says:

          The real estate required for Chademo vs CCS is double. Look at the door on the Leaf and compare it to the Spark EV.

          1. Anon says:

            It’s larger, but you don’t have to flip two separate flaps just to plug in and DCFC.

            *shrugs*

            The most elegant, space saving DCFC socket, is of course, Tesla’s. One would expect you to demand everyone use it, based solely on physical size…

            1. kdawg says:

              The Leaf, you have to open the main door, then the port cover, either L2 or DCFC.

              The Spark EV, you only have to open the main door for L2, and then the port cover for DCFC.

    4. mustang_sallad says:

      “Why continue to beat a dead horse?

      Just except, that CHAdeMO has won with a large lead in sales of compatible cars.”

      Why continue to beat a dead horse?

      Just accept, that internal combustion has won with a large lead in sales of ICE powered cars.

      1. Nick says:

        Internal combustion has won. Walked away with it more then a century ago.

        What’s your point?

  5. R.S says:

    350 kW might not even be that far away. Charging times are the one of the most researched topics right now and unlike energy densities, there is no physical limit how much energy you could push into a hypothetical cell. Lots of batteries already, continuously, discharge with very high C rates. The trick is to build one that can charge at the same high rate.

    1. ItsNotAboutTheMoney says:

      The trick is actually to build a cheap one that can charge at the same high rate.

    2. mr. M says:

      The trick is to build a 200 kWh battery and C-rate stays the same. Or you increase C-rate by factor of 1.5 and go to 100kWh battery.

      Leaf has a c-rate around 1.7 and Zoe has already around 2c. Having a 75kWh Zoe would mean charging with 150kWh possible today.

      Go with a c-rate of 3 and a 100kWh battery and you can charge 300kW.

  6. Scott Franco says:

    So with the present 25KWH/30 minute to %80 charge, we can expect:

    150KW – 10 minute
    350KW – 4.2 minute

    More reasonably, at 50KWH:

    150KWH 20 minutes
    350KW – 8 minutes

    Thats a 50KWH/15 minute to charge car or better. Thats a gasoline replacement car.

    1. ModernMarvelFan says:

      You can’t charge 50kWh battery at 350kW, at least not yet. Certainly not on a battery packs that doesn’t have liquid thermal control like the LEAF unless you are using a completely diffferent chemistry that would sacrifice energy density for power density.

      1. mr. M says:

        If your battery is allowed to weight 1500kg and cost 50.000 you can do it today. Up to 20c is easy stuff for lithium-titanat.

        20c means empty to full within 1/20 hour = 3 minutes. Maybe 4-5 minutes with tappering.

      2. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

        ModernMarvelFan said:

        “You can’t charge 50kWh battery at 350kW, at least not yet. Certainly not on a battery packs that doesn’t have liquid thermal control like the LEAF unless you are using a completely diffferent chemistry that would sacrifice energy density for power density.”

        Not with the types of commercial battery cells now used in EVs, no. But there have been various laboratory demonstrations of cells capable of being charged ten times faster without overheating, or even more. The trick is going to be to commercialize that technology.

        Sacrifice energy density for power density? No, just use a different material for the electrodes; a material with extremely low electrical resistance.

        In fact, here’s a new claim from the Huawei company:

        http://cleantechnica.com/2015/11/16/huawei-unveils-lithium-ion-batteries-that-charge-10-times-faster/

        But given the high level of B.S. in claims from battery makers, the MIT Technology Review is probably a more reliable source for news on this type of tech:

        http://www.technologyreview.com/news/423597/batteries-that-recharge-in-seconds/

        1. ModernMarvelFan says:

          Thus, not yet.

          Not to mention that I have seen plenty of so called “claims” in the last 15 years or so but nothing has any break through yet.

          Both LiFeO2 and Lithium Titanate can handle it better but they both have worse energy density.

          Until they can come out with a new chemistry or better chemistry, my claims are still true.

          Chemically and atomically, there is a fundamental trade off between energy and power density. But if you improve both enough, it might not matter anymore for a 250kW charging system.

          Of course, the easiest solution is just to increase battery size so it will handle higher charging rate.

  7. pjwood1 says:

    “German carmakers (Audi, BMW, Daimler, Opel, Porsche and Volkswagen) together with American (GM, Ford and Chrysler/Fiat) first developed and created the CCS for DC fast charging…”

    Why not:

    German carmakers (VW, BMW, Daimler and Opel) together with American (Chevrolet, Ford, Chrysler, Fiat, Cadillac, Buick and GMC) first developed..?

    That’s the ‘Merican way to write it.

    1. Speculawyer says:

      ISeeWhatYouDidThere.gif

  8. Bill Howland says:

    They sure have a lot of organizational people around having meetings, and strategy sessions, and not very much discussion of who is paying for it.

    Maybe Europeans will just allow their governments to force everything on them.

    I submit it will be a somewhat more rocky road in the states, since the cost is pushed down much more to the individual user/ business.

    I privately laugh at some of this, seeing apparently 350 kw is the ‘minimum (!) ‘ needed, whereas European car companies specialize in putting the smallest batteries legally required in their cars, or 30 km on their ‘drive cycles’ which is around 13 miles EPA in the states.

    Here’s the issue. I just replaced the battery in my 4 year old netbook with one for $30 which is 50 % larger than the OEM. The thing is now FAR more convenient to use, since I never have to worry about bringing my charger with me, nor worry about finding a place to plug it in if I’m on my bike and the car isn’t around.

    For me, having a slightly larger battery in the car makes living with an EV SO MUCH MORE PLEASANT, and the charging rate falls almost to unimportance. Of course, when taking a long trip, it would be convenient if the car could charge overnight where you happen to be sleeping, if you’re on a long trip. This would be in the 10kw range for even a large vehicle.

    But putting in microscopic batteries in expensive luxury cars will never be satisfactory to me, and by increasing the size of the battery only somewhat would greatly increase the pleasure of EV driving, for me.

    Maybe other people are different, but I suspect we’re alike more often than not, just like the netbook experience.

    So investing a huge amount of time going from 150 to 350 kw seems like a great waste of time and money. But if they are spending ‘other people’s money’ then of course, everyone will want to get in on the gravy train.

    1. Pushmi-Pullyu says:

      Bill Howland said:

      “They sure have a lot of organizational people around having meetings, and strategy sessions, and not very much discussion of who is paying for it.”

      Yeah, the fact that they think their promo needs a PowerPoint slide showing who in the organization is responsible for decision making, a slide full of meaningless corporate-speak verbiage, is a pretty large red flag for me!

      Those who can, do. Those who can’t, have meetings where they discuss their problems.

    2. Speculawyer says:

      Well it really depends on if battery prices get push down to less than $100/KWH. If they do, then car makers can easily stick 100KWH to 200KWH of batteries into high-end cars. At that point, 350KW charging would be really nice to have. It would be very much like gasoline cars at that point.

      I don’t know if we need things that great. I could live the rest of my life on the current performance offered by Tesla with 90KWH batteries and 135KW charging. But I can’t even afford that right now.

  9. techguy says:

    Bigger batteries and faster rapid charging (like CharIn EV’s proposal) is necessary, if we’re to attract the masses to electric cars.

    Rapid charging MUST be more like 5minutes to 70%.

    Porsche’s proposal for CCS “turbo charging” seems better. Hopefully as a member of CharIn EV, they can persuade the other members to go for it.

    Whatever they decide, backwards compatibility with present day CCS vehicles should be mandatory too.

  10. Arctic Roads says:

    We just opened a 120 kW charger from Delta Electronics in Norway! Sat a KIA charging speed record and said goodbye to 50KW chargers for good. Opening another one soon: http://arcticroads.com/nyheter/opens-120-kw-ev-charger-to-the-public/

    1. Tech01x says:

      How exactly is 68-70 kW any sort of charging record?

      The CHAdeMO standard is specified out to only 200 amps, so anything above 80kW is just marketing blather unless an expensive DC to DC converter is installed, which no production EV uses.

      1. Arctic Roads says:

        A record meaning that nobody has ever charged a KIA Soul EV that fast in Norway before. 0-67% in 13 minutes. Sure a Tesla can charge a lot faster but we said a Kia charging record, not an EV charging record.

        1. techguy says:

          Arctic Roads – is this Chademo only or a dual head rapid charger?

          1. Knut Erik Ballestad says:

            They (Arctic Roads) actually deploys triple-head chargers (from Delta Energy Systems) with a *total* capacity of 120kW – expandable to 150kW in 10kW increments.

            This means that any combination of two cars using CCS/Chademo can charge DC at a *combined* maximum effect of 120kW. In addition, a type 2 22kW AC charger is present.

            Currently, only the Kia Soul EV can charge at 70kW on the Chademo adapter, and no cars can charge above 50kW on the CCS adapter – hence the 120kW installed effect. The AC outlet seems to be unrelated to the DC charger total effect.

  11. jim stack says:

    The few ABB units near me at Nissan dealers are out of service a lot. Most only run less than half their rated 50 kW as it is. How can they push 150 kW when they can’t even hit 50 kW?

    1. Bill Howland says:

      Hehe, seeing as those so called 50 kw models are gargantuan, perhaps a future 2 storey house sized 1200 kw model can in actuallity put out the 350 kw they say they need.

      ABB -> Another Broken Box

  12. JakeY says:

    Number one question remains: is it voltage or current increase? “150kW” doesn’t tell the whole story.

    1. Speculawyer says:

      Probably voltage as they can’t increase the current much more without some serious monster wires and connectors.

      But, yeah, I’m really curious to see volts & Amps too. They are going to need to up the voltage used in batteries.